14:43:12 RRSAgent has joined #tt 14:43:12 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/07/23-tt-irc 14:43:14 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:43:14 Zakim has joined #tt 14:43:16 Zakim, this will be TTML 14:43:16 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 14:43:17 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 14:43:17 Date: 23 July 2015 14:43:27 rrsagent, generate minutes 14:43:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/23-tt-minutes.html nigel 14:44:30 nigel: Present+ Frans, atai2, Courtney, pal, nigel 14:44:32 rrsagent, generate minutes 14:44:32 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/23-tt-minutes.html nigel 14:45:14 nigel: chair: nigel 14:45:18 nigel: scribe: nigel 14:45:22 nigel: Regrets: glenn 14:45:27 nigel: Topic: This meeting 14:45:32 nigel: nigel: Runs through likely agenda. Any other business? 14:45:46 group: No AOB 14:45:49 Topic: Action Items 14:45:52 nigel: Glenn sent an update before the meeting - he has nothing to report on his actions. 14:45:56 nigel: Andreas, how is Action-406 looking, re HTMLCue? 14:46:01 nigel: It's on my list, but nothing to report now. 14:46:04 s/nigel/atai 14:46:10 Action-409? 14:46:10 Action-409 -- Nigel Megitt to Discuss liaison with unicode with richard ishida -- due 2015-07-09 -- OPEN 14:46:10 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/409 14:46:18 nigel: I got a response from Richard Ishida. 14:46:22 nigel: http://sandflow.com/public/cldr/imsc-codepoint-table.htm 14:46:26 nigel: He asks why there are very few blue characters in some locales. 14:46:29 pal: The blue characters are the ones that are already in the main and punctuation and digit character 14:46:33 ... sets for those locales. The non-blue ones show those that would effectively be added to the 14:46:38 ... existing character sets for each locale. I'm happy to clarify that if it was not clear in the original 14:46:41 ... communication. 14:46:46 nigel: He also suggests that Unicode would want us to propose how the characters would be 14:46:50 ... integrated into CLDR, i.e. are we proposing new categories including all the characters or just 14:46:54 ... new categories for the additional categories. 14:46:59 s/categories/characters for subtitles and captions 14:47:04 pal: I think for ease of review, just including the delta is going to be harder for the reviewer to look at 14:47:08 ... instead of the full set of characters including those that are already in the main and punctuation 14:47:11 ... sets. I'm interested in the feedback from this group. I found that when I just tried to generate 14:47:15 ... the delta, i.e. just those characters that are not already present in Main and Punctuation that leads 14:47:19 ... to a disjointed set. I think it would be easier for reviewers to see the whole set. Also perhaps in 14:47:23 ... some languages there is a real difference between characters typically used in everyday print 14:47:26 ... media or chat, etc, compared with those available and appropriate for subtitling and captions. 14:47:31 nigel: There's a trade-off between ease of review and ease of maintenance, if Unicode has to add 14:47:34 ... any new code points to two sets for each locale instead of one. 14:47:38 pal: We could propose an algorithm. I am happy to propose a more detailed proposal if that's what 14:47:41 ... you sense is what they want. 14:47:45 nigel: I do get the sense from Richard that Mark would like something quite detailed and specific 14:47:48 ... as a proposal to review. 14:47:52 pal: Okay I'm happy to propose that with a set of rules. 14:48:21 xaction-409: [Meeting 2015-07-23] pal to generate a more detailed proposal of what we're asking Unicode to do. 14:48:26 s/xaction/action 14:48:38 trackbot: Notes added to action-409 Discuss liaison with unicode with richard ishida. 14:48:38 Sorry, nigel, I don't understand 'trackbot: Notes added to action-409 Discuss liaison with unicode with richard ishida.'. Please refer to for help. 14:48:43 Topic: Issues 14:48:46 issue-399? 14:48:46 issue-399 -- add errata for initial value fallback language -- open 14:48:46 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/399 14:48:51 pal: In seeking feedback on IMSC I didn't understand the style inheritance rules, but in answering my 14:48:54 ... question on the topic Glenn found an issue that he's proposing to fix. 14:49:02 nigel: I'm not sure what the impact of that is. 14:49:05 pal: Me too. It's a complex algorithm, so I'm not sure what the impact is. 14:49:10 reopen issue-399 14:49:10 Re-opened issue-399. 14:49:17 nigel: The issue has the email thread attached, which is helpful. 14:49:21 nigel: Is this to do with the inheritance of styles either from regions or from styles? 14:49:47 pal: Yes, exactly. There are lots of combinations of inheriting from parent elements, specifying styles inline and others. 14:49:52 nigel: I looked at that once a while back in assisting with an implementation, and it turned out to be 14:49:56 ... surprisingly simple for most styles, in that you just ended up generating a list and searching for 14:50:01 ... the first one of the required type, starting from the correct end of the list. It was computationally 14:50:05 ... simple, though I suspect there are complexities that we may have missed, and things like fontSize 14:50:09 ... expressed in % are of course relative to the parent. 14:50:14 Topic: TPAC 2015 14:50:19 nigel: I may have mentioned before, but in case I didn't, registration is open. 14:50:24 nigel: http://www.w3.org/2015/10/TPAC/ for the details of registration. 14:50:28 nigel: Also https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/tpac2015 for our own registration and agenda. 14:50:32 Topic: WebVTT TTML mapping 14:50:35 Courtney: We're making progress on this, nothing to bring to the group yet. 14:50:38 pal: Have you run into any major issues, or is it merely a question of filling the holes in a framework. 14:50:42 Courtney: We're taking the approach of defining a profile in TTML that will map to WebVTT, which 14:50:49 ... was Andreas's idea. We may want to extend it in the future. By taking a subset of TTML it makes 14:50:54 ... the mapping pretty straightforward in some ways. 14:50:57 pal: That was the plan in Las Vegas I think. What's the relation between that and IMSC1? 14:51:01 atai: I think it should be a subset of IMSC1. 14:51:05 pal: Can you tell now which features from IMSC1 will be or will not be included? I'm happy to help by the way. 14:51:09 atai: I think there are some features absent from IMSC, like aspectRatio, progressivelyDecodable, 14:51:14 ... multiRowAlign that are not mappable straight into WebVTT. Possibly the best thing to do is to 14:51:19 ... look at the list when we have the first draft ready. 14:51:24 Courtney: Possibly we could send Pierre the profile to look at early, but we should have the profile 14:51:28 ... ready relatively soon. 14:51:31 atai: The intention of the profile is to not include any features that cannot be mapped, but also 14:51:35 ... to restrict the TTML structure to make it easier to map to WebVTT. 14:51:41 nigel: You mean algorithmically easy to map? 14:51:44 atai: Yes, for example the timing. You can make certain aspects simpler to make it easier to map. 14:51:48 ... It needs to be seen in context rather than discussed on its own. There's a lot to be done, which 14:51:51 ... could be done inside TTML, like mapping to a certain state that makes it comparable to WebVTT 14:51:55 ... to make the mapping algorithm easier. 14:51:58 nigel: Is that coincident with Glenn's ISD plan? 14:52:01 atai: No I don't think so. 14:52:05 nigel: Rather than having two transformations it might be better to have one that's more useful. 14:52:10 pal: The reason I'm asking is I'm getting requests from IMSC users. When is the target date for a 14:52:13 ... first draft? 14:52:16 Courtney: I don't know exactly - we're going to have a call after this to sync up. I think some time 14:52:19 ... in August for a first draft. 14:52:23 nigel: That's great. Are there any other technical questions that have arisen from that work? 14:52:26 atai: Not from my side. 14:52:30 Courtney: I don't have any yet. 14:52:33 nigel: We've hit the end of our agenda, so I'll adjourn the meeting. Thanks very much everyone. 14:52:41 ... [adjourns meeting] 14:52:59 rrsagent, generate minutes 14:52:59 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/23-tt-minutes.html nigel 14:53:46 s/nigel: chair:/chair: 14:53:56 s/nigel: scribe/scribe 14:54:04 s/nigel: Regrets/Regrets 14:54:09 s/nigel: Topic/Topic 14:54:15 s/nigel: nigel/nigel 14:54:19 rrsagent, generate minutes 14:54:19 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/23-tt-minutes.html nigel 14:55:22 s/nigel: Present+/Present: 14:56:00 s|Sorry, nigel, I don't understand 'trackbot: Notes added to action-409 Discuss liaison with unicode with richard ishida.'. Please refer to for help.|Notes added to action-409 Discuss liaison with unicode with richard ishida. 14:56:03 rrsagent, generate minutes 14:56:03 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/23-tt-minutes.html nigel 14:57:13 s/trackbot: Notes added to action-409 Discuss liaison with unicode with richard ishida./ 14:57:14 rrsagent, generate minutes 14:57:14 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/23-tt-minutes.html nigel 14:58:48 s/... new categories for the additional characters/nigel: new categories for the additional characters 14:58:49 rrsagent, generate minutes 14:58:49 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/23-tt-minutes.html nigel 14:59:59 scribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 15:00:00 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:00:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/23-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:48:19 Zakim has left #tt