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14:54:18 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/07/15-annotation-irc
14:54:20 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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14:54:22 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2666
14:54:22 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
14:54:23 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Annotation Working Group Teleconference
14:54:23 <trackbot> Date: 15 July 2015
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15:01:15 <fjh> fjh has changed the topic to: agenda https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-annotation/2015Jul/0105.html webex
15:01:18 <fjh> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-annotation/2015Jul/0105.html
15:01:35 <fjh> Chair: Frederick_Hirsch, Rob_Sanderson
15:01:38 <fjh> Present+ Frederick_Hirsch, Rob_Sanderson
15:02:11 <fjh> Regrets+ Ray_Denenberg, Ivan_Herman
15:02:13 <bigbluehat> Present+ Benjamin_Young
15:02:17 <Matt_Haas> Present+ Matt_Haas
15:02:25 <Jacob> Present+ Jacob_Jett
15:02:30 <azaroth> Regrets+ Paolo_Ciccarese
15:02:32 <TimCole> Present+ Tim_Cole
15:03:01 <shepazu> Present+ shepazu
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15:05:39 <Janina_> Present+ Janina_Sarol
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15:07:02 <Jacob> How many are needed for quorum?
15:07:09 <davis_salisbury> present+
15:07:26 <azaroth> scribenick: chrisbirk
15:07:31 <azaroth> scribe: Chris Birk
15:07:36 <fjh> Topic: Agenda Review, Scribe Selection, Announcements
15:07:41 <davis_salisbury> present+ davis_salisbury
15:08:12 <tbdinesh> Present+ TB_Dinesh
15:08:18 <chrisbirk> fjh... who can chair on July 29
15:08:32 <chrisbirk> shepazu... I can chair
15:08:39 <fjh> Regrets from Rob and Frederick 29 July
15:08:41 <takeshi> Present+ Takeshi_Kanai
15:09:32 <chrisbirk> ok, thanks azaroth
15:09:37 <fjh> Topic: Minutes Approval
15:09:50 <fjh> proposed RESOLUTION: Minutes from 8 July approved, http://www.w3.org/2015/07/08-annotation-minutes.html
15:10:04 <chrisbirk> fjh: RESOLUTION: Minutes from 8 July approved, http://www.w3.org/2015/07/08-annotation-minutes.html
15:10:08 <fjh> Topic: Protocol - Aspects
15:10:19 <fjh> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-annotation/2015Jul/0082.html
15:10:55 <azaroth> Regrets+ Ben_DeMeester
15:12:06 <chrisbirk> bigbluehat: I think it might be saner to come at smaller deliverables
15:12:09 <azaroth> +1
15:13:04 <bigbluehat> w3.org/annotation
15:13:15 <chrisbirk> ... social call reaction had a tough time digesting entire chart
15:13:47 <shepazu> http://www.w3.org/annotation/diagrams/annotation-architecture.svg
15:13:48 <TimCole> This? http://www.w3.org/annotation/diagrams/annotation-architecture.svg
15:13:56 <fjh> q?
15:13:57 <fjh> q+
15:13:57 <shepazu> q+
15:14:08 <azaroth> q+
15:14:14 <fjh> ack shepazu
15:14:40 <chrisbirk> shepazu: never intended SVG to represent protocol or any part of the spec.  is a conceptual overview
15:16:05 <chrisbirk> bigbluehat: address other parts of the chart and break out other deliverables
15:16:17 <fjh> action: fjh to work on roadmap
15:16:18 <trackbot> Created ACTION-22 - Work on roadmap [on Frederick Hirsch - due 2015-07-22].
15:16:25 <fjh> q?
15:16:26 <shepazu> q+
15:16:59 <chrisbirk> fjh: we have some of these separated on the list.  Need to be more explicit
15:17:21 <fjh> ack fjh
15:17:27 <fjh> ack azaroth
15:18:07 <fjh> would ilke to see us discuss containers on today's call, believe Tim Cole had some thoughts on that
15:18:53 <chrisbirk> azaroth: containers / musts triangle need some clarity on requirements
15:19:23 <fjh> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-annotation/2015Jul/0141.html
15:19:50 <chrisbirk> ... would like to add query search mechanism on top of "follow your nose" discovery
15:21:05 <fjh> q?
15:21:12 <fjh> ack shepazu
15:21:22 <chrisbirk> ... replying to list in deeper detail
15:22:06 <chrisbirk> shepazu: is the architecture diagram causing problems?
15:23:15 <fjh> q?
15:23:27 <chrisbirk> bigbluehat: it's not causing any problems, but need to be more clear on what we're covering.
15:24:42 <fjh> need to annotate the architecture diagram
15:24:59 <azaroth> +1 to non-normative overview doc
15:25:12 <fjh> +1 to architecture note
15:26:08 <azaroth> q+ to ask re read/write separation
15:26:11 <chrisbirk> bigbluehat: HTTP API and client-side api broken out into sub-deliverables
15:26:22 <fjh> ack azaroth
15:26:22 <Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to ask re read/write separation
15:26:51 <fjh> q+ azaroth to ask read/write separation
15:27:32 <chrisbirk> azaroth: a web resource would have a link header to discover a feed of annotations.  Not the only method of discovery
15:27:58 <bigbluehat> q?
15:28:44 <chrisbirk> azaroth: I separate discovery from search.  If it's not linked to from somewhere it's search instead of discovery
15:29:24 <chrisbirk> bigbluehat: need to make sure we are explicit about vocabulary
15:29:36 <azaroth> +1
15:29:46 <Jacob> So separating browsing ([serendipitous] discovery) from search ([investigative] discovery)?
15:30:01 <azaroth> Jacob: Yep
15:30:32 <chrisbirk> bigbluehat: I'll add some user stories.
15:30:44 <Jacob> Makes sense to me. We do this in dig libs all the time. +1
15:30:53 <azaroth> Jacob: Right :)
15:30:56 <tbdinesh> q+ to ask if we should separate annotation service from annotation repo
15:31:09 <fjh> action: shepazu to write use case about feed for discovery
15:31:09 <trackbot> Created ACTION-23 - Write use case about feed for discovery [on Doug Schepers - due 2015-07-22].
15:31:24 <fjh> action: bigbluehat to write user story about discovery
15:31:25 <trackbot> Created ACTION-24 - Write user story about discovery [on Benjamin Young - due 2015-07-22].
15:31:49 <TimCole> need a use case focusing on discovery by relation of a SpecificTarget to a Resourcd -- happy to do this use case if no one else is covering
15:31:55 <fjh> action: azaroth to write user story about discovery
15:31:56 <trackbot> Created ACTION-25 - Write user story about discovery [on Robert Sanderson - due 2015-07-22].
15:31:58 <bigbluehat> +1 to fjh writing down all the things
15:32:11 <fjh> these actions are all from different perspectives even though same actions
15:32:27 <chrisbirk> bigbluehat: I can get mine writting in a week
15:32:35 <fjh> s/writting/writing/
15:32:42 <fjh> all have plan to complete in week
15:32:46 <fjh> q?
15:32:57 <fjh> ack azaroth
15:32:57 <Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to ask read/write separation
15:33:32 <fjh> s/complete/complete actions/
15:33:50 <fjh> another item to be clear about
15:33:55 <TimCole> +1 for distinguishing between reading and writing
15:34:03 <fjh> ack trackbot
15:34:06 <chrisbirk> fjh: saving reading / writing for next discussion
15:34:10 <fjh> ack tbdinesh
15:34:10 <Zakim> tbdinesh, you wanted to ask if we should separate annotation service from annotation repo
15:34:15 <TimCole> q+
15:34:41 <chrisbirk> tbdinesh: would it make sense to separate annotation repositories from services?
15:34:52 <chrisbirk> shepazu: what's the distinction between the two?
15:34:52 <Jacob> API vs database?
15:35:35 <fjh> rssagent, generate minutes
15:35:45 <azaroth> Service as automated user agent?
15:36:30 <fjh> aggregation service?
15:36:46 <fjh> q?
15:37:25 <chrisbirk> tbdinesh: hypothes.is example of a service.  How do I allow access to my annotations?
15:37:48 <azaroth> q?
15:37:53 <fjh> tbdinesh: service - enables annotations, then publishes somewhere
15:38:14 <fjh> ack TimCole
15:38:32 <fjh> s/dbdinish: service/bigbluehat: service/
15:38:32 <bigbluehat> +1 to tbdinesh's desire for clarity around service (enabler of annotation) and repository (storage of annotation)
15:38:43 <fjh> +1 to clarity around service etc
15:38:55 <Jacob> +1 to clarity
15:39:07 <azaroth> q+
15:39:41 <azaroth> q+ to note fragments as well
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15:40:33 <fjh> ack azaroth
15:40:33 <Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to note fragments as well
15:40:36 <chrisbirk> TimCole: how to find annotations on a region of an image vs. the image in general
15:41:11 <chrisbirk> azaroth: if you want to find annotations on a uri, get all annotations on resource and annotations on part of the resource
15:41:19 <fjh> agree
15:42:20 <fjh> concern is that use cases cover different paths to finding annotations, e.g. url of image vs url of section of image etc
15:42:30 <bigbluehat> TimCole: azaroth: earlier work on discovery: https://www.w3.org/annotation/wiki/Resource_Annotation_Discovery
15:42:55 <fjh> q?
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15:43:05 <chrisbirk> bigbluehat: let's not optimize away redundancy just yet
15:43:30 <TimCole> +1 http
15:43:50 <fjh> Topic: Rangefinder
15:43:52 <chrisbirk> shepazu: bring up rangefinder next week
15:44:00 <fjh>  not ready to publish, need to complete algorithm
15:44:17 <fjh> Topic: Protocol - constraining HTTP
15:44:42 <fjh> benjamin email https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-annotation/2015Jul/0083.html
15:45:43 <chrisbirk> Present+ chris_birk
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15:46:50 <bigbluehat> azaroth: essentially, we'd be using "just" HTTP with only calling out the required Link headers, media types, etc.
15:47:09 <bigbluehat> azaroth: vs. more tightly defining what must be done in various cases.
15:47:28 <fjh> q+ to ask about constraining
15:47:40 <bigbluehat> q+
15:47:45 <chrisbirk> azaroth: need to make a decision about exactly where on the spectrum of "use existing" to "completely defining everything" we want to be
15:47:50 <azaroth> ack fjh
15:47:50 <Zakim> fjh, you wanted to ask about constraining
15:48:26 <Jacob> fjh: I think that's right
15:48:31 <chrisbirk> fjh: core issue is that if we constrain it more, it's breaking interop
15:48:49 <azaroth> ack bigbluehat
15:49:07 <azaroth> q+ to assert it's not entirely true :)
15:49:37 <shepazu> q+
15:50:22 <chrisbirk> bigbluehat: erik saying adding MUSTs constrains HTTP and puts more work on developers.
15:50:41 <azaroth> q?
15:51:40 <azaroth> ack azaroth
15:51:40 <Zakim> azaroth, you wanted to assert it's not entirely true :)
15:53:06 <chrisbirk> azaroth: if we want to specify a system for creating annotation systems, and you say POST is optional, you cannot create annotations within spec
15:53:50 <fjh> q+
15:54:00 <azaroth> ack shepazu
15:54:02 <chrisbirk> ... tradeoff between what the standard says and what implementers are going to do.
15:54:37 <chrisbirk> shepazu: may not be able to resolve this within this group
15:54:39 <fjh> we have previously discussed asking the TAG, after updating the draft so it is as clear as possible
15:54:48 <TimCole> q+
15:55:05 <azaroth> ack fjh
15:55:07 <chrisbirk> shepazu: get Mark Nottingham involved
15:55:13 <chrisbirk> sp?
15:55:29 <azaroth> ack TimCole
15:56:04 <chrisbirk> bigbluehat: I'll try to characterize the two positions with help from azaroth
15:56:33 <fjh> action: bigbluehat to characterize issue related to HTTP profiling and options to go forward
15:56:33 <trackbot> Created ACTION-26 - Characterize issue related to http profiling and options to go forward [on Benjamin Young - due 2015-07-22].
15:57:14 <chrisbirk> TimCole: would we require implementers to understand all specs involved?
15:57:48 <bigbluehat> q+
15:58:17 <azaroth> ack bigbluehat
15:59:29 <chrisbirk> bigbluehat: entire spec just for publishing own annotations is probably too much overhead.
15:59:36 <azaroth> q+
16:00:22 <azaroth> ack azaroth
16:00:23 <chrisbirk> bigbluehat: should be a place to point people who have annotations and want to publish that don't want to implement writeability
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16:01:27 <TimCole> +1
16:01:30 <chrisbirk> +1
16:01:34 <Jacob> +1
16:01:51 <tbdinesh> +1
16:01:55 <shepazu> +1
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16:07:33 <TimCole> https://github.com/uq-eresearch/lorestore/blob/master/src/main/resources/OAConstraintsSPARQL.json
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17:02:03 <fjh> Topic: Adjoiurn
17:02:18 <fjh> s/Adjoiurn/Adjourn/
17:02:27 <fjh> thanks Chris Birk for scribing
17:02:31 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
17:02:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/15-annotation-minutes.html fjh
17:03:46 <fjh> s/who can chair on July 29/we have regrets from Rob, Frederick and Ivan on 29 July, Doug are you able to chair that call or should we cancel now?/
17:03:56 <fjh> s/Regrets from Rob and Frederick 29 July//
17:04:18 <fjh> s/fjh: RESOLUTION/RESOLUTION/
17:04:50 <fjh> s/mine writing/mine written/
17:05:27 <fjh> sfjh: not ready to publish/shepazu: not ready to publish/
17:05:41 <fjh> s/sp?//
17:06:04 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
17:06:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/15-annotation-minutes.html fjh
17:06:29 <fjh> s/How many are needed for quorum?//
17:06:57 <fjh> s/ok, thanks azaroth/azaroth: ok, thanks/
17:07:00 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
17:07:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/15-annotation-minutes.html fjh
17:07:20 <fjh> s/fjh... we/fjh: we/
17:07:28 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
17:07:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/15-annotation-minutes.html fjh
17:07:52 <fjh> s/shepazu... I/shepazu: I/
17:08:13 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
17:08:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/15-annotation-minutes.html fjh
17:08:47 <fjh> s/fjh: not ready to publish/shepazu: not ready to publish/
17:08:52 <fjh> rrsagent, generate minutes
17:08:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/15-annotation-minutes.html fjh
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