IRC log of social on 2015-07-14

Timestamps are in UTC.

17:03:33 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #social
17:03:33 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/07/14-social-irc
17:03:35 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
17:03:35 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #social
17:03:37 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be SOCL
17:03:37 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
17:03:38 [trackbot]
Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
17:03:38 [trackbot]
Date: 14 July 2015
17:04:15 [eprodrom]
Zakim, who's on the call?
17:04:15 [Zakim]
sorry, eprodrom, I don't know what conference this is
17:04:16 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, csarven, bblfish_, bblfish, eprodrom, tantek, cwebber2, jasnell_, tilgovi, Arnaud, jaywink, KevinMarks, wilkie, melvster, tessierashpool_, tsyesika,
17:04:16 [Zakim]
... ben_thatmustbeme, Loqi, slvrbckt, sandro, trackbot, raucao, aaronpk, dwhly, JakeHart, bigbluehat, ElijahLynn, mattl, oshepherd, tommorris_, bret, rhiaro, wseltzer
17:04:21 [Loqi]
:)
17:04:24 [eprodrom]
Zakim, this is SOCL
17:04:24 [Zakim]
sorry, eprodrom, I do not see a conference named 'SOCL' in progress or scheduled at this time
17:04:27 [ben_thatmustbeme]
present+ ben_thatmustbeme
17:04:31 [aaronpk]
rhiaro: collections are a specific ordering, and items can be added to the collection in specific locations. feeds are always date-ordered and things can only be added to the top of the list
17:04:39 [eprodrom]
present+ eprodrom
17:04:48 [rhiaro]
aaronpk: cool. Where's this documented?
17:04:56 [aaronpk]
in my and jeena's head right now :)
17:05:01 [eprodrom]
Can anyone scribe for us for this meeting?
17:05:07 [tantek]
rhiaro: indiewebcamp.com/collection
17:05:13 [rhiaro]
I can scribe
17:05:24 [eprodrom]
scribenick: rhiaro
17:05:32 [rhiaro]
audio is a bit crackly though, I'll do my best
17:06:16 [rhiaro]
TOPIC: Approval of minutes
17:06:18 [eprodrom]
https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-07-07-minutes
17:06:42 [eprodrom]
PROPOSED approve minutes of 2015 07 07
17:06:45 [eprodrom]
+1
17:06:46 [rhiaro]
+1
17:06:47 [ben_thatmustbeme]
+1
17:07:00 [cwebber2]
+1
17:07:00 [bret]
i just joined the call
17:07:08 [wilkie]
+1
17:07:28 [rhiaro]
RESOLVED approve minutes of 2015 07 07
17:07:30 [rhiaro]
TOPIC: ActivityStreams2
17:08:03 [rhiaro]
eprodrom: We voted previouslyto publish a new version of AS2. James, where are we with that?
17:08:04 [eprodrom_]
eprodrom_ has joined #social
17:08:20 [rhiaro]
jasnell: Sent an updated copy of drafts to harry two weeks ago, haven't heard back, so going to set up new tool so I can push it myself
17:08:26 [rhiaro]
... Will update group as soon as it's done
17:08:32 [rhiaro]
eprodrom: harry has been on vocation, not on the call today
17:08:41 [rhiaro]
... echidna?
17:08:51 [eprodrom_]
RESOLVED: approve minutes of 2015 07 07
17:08:58 [rhiaro]
jasnell: Yes. I need an auth token from the w3 team lead. Harry or sandro will need to provide that
17:09:02 [rhiaro]
... Sent a request to harry
17:09:22 [rhiaro]
sandro: If harry can't do it today I'll look into it
17:09:42 [rhiaro]
eprodrom: otherwise docs are ready to go? There was editorial work over the last couple of weeks
17:10:02 [Loqi]
Jsnell made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-07-14]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=85036&oldid=85035
17:10:13 [rhiaro]
jasnell: The only question is, there have been editorial updates since we voted, so if folks want to revisit and publish the current editors draft, or go with the one we originally approved
17:10:31 [rhiaro]
eprodrom: IIRC we resolved to approve, subject to minor corrections
17:10:36 [rhiaro]
jasnell: But some of the changes are substantial
17:10:41 [rhiaro]
... I'll published the one we approved the previous week
17:10:45 [rhiaro]
eprodrom: That sounds reasonable
17:11:02 [rhiaro]
... If we're in a good editoral flow, it makes sense for us to plan for another WD in the enxt month or so, and speed up the schedule
17:11:16 [rhiaro]
... Anything else you need from other members of the group to get this going?
17:11:31 [rhiaro]
jasnell: Just need the auth token. Everything else I should be able to set up on my own. If any issues come up I'll work with harry or sandro directly
17:11:51 [rhiaro]
... Did add more AS2 items to agenda
17:12:17 [rhiaro]
... Updates based on discussions on github. I have added Organization back as an Actor. There was discussion in favour.
17:12:33 [rhiaro]
... Removed as:Favorite as an activity type because of the overlap with Like
17:12:46 [rhiaro]
... Favorites are really a collection of things that have been liked
17:12:50 [rhiaro]
... If folks do not agree let me know
17:12:53 [tantek]
favorites--
17:12:54 [Loqi]
favorites has -2 karma
17:13:15 [rhiaro]
... Also restructured the git repo to be a closer match with what's being published. New directory structure, so the links to the editors drafts have changed, but I've added redirects
17:13:24 [rhiaro]
... Added more expansive friend request example
17:13:32 [csarven]
present+ csarven
17:13:34 [ben_thatmustbeme]
in favor of removing as:favorite (actually get that minuted)
17:13:36 [KevinMarks]
Slack's extension of like/fav to liek with emoji is intersting
17:13:36 [rhiaro]
... These additionals and removals need to be reviewed
17:13:56 [rhiaro]
eprodrom: You removed as:Favorite not Favorites
17:14:03 [rhiaro]
jasnell: yes
17:14:05 [KevinMarks]
http://slackhq.com/post/123561085920/reactions
17:14:12 [rhiaro]
... Type in the wiki. Favorite not Favorites
17:14:19 [rhiaro]
s/Type/Typo
17:14:42 [rhiaro]
eprodrom: you've called for specific responses. I'm interested in the change in the purpose. That seems to be closely related to API issues
17:14:53 [rhiaro]
... Not sure if that's something we should see come up more on Social API
17:15:10 [rhiaro]
... Any feedback on this? Adding purpose to collections?
17:15:15 [rhiaro]
... This was discussed just before the call
17:15:24 [rhiaro]
jasnell: I'll give an overview of the issue
17:15:43 [rhiaro]
... The basic idea is to add a new property to an object which identifies its semantic purpose, or to use ane xtension on the @type
17:16:16 [rhiaro]
... We have a purpose field that says eg. purpose:favorites, or @type Favorites
17:16:30 [rhiaro]
... Could exist on Collections or any other type of object to give you a context on why it would exist
17:16:39 [eprodrom]
http://w3c-social.github.io/activitypump/#collections
17:16:48 [ben_thatmustbeme]
which would be better for multiple types within a collection?
17:16:49 [rhiaro]
eprodrom: activitypump defines a number of different collections for each actor
17:17:07 [aaronpk]
why do we need anything other than a name for the collection?
17:17:09 [rhiaro]
... You would see that as something we'd add in addition, to specify what those collections are for
17:17:26 [aaronpk]
q+
17:17:39 [rhiaro]
jasnell: Be good if peole can weigh in on github or next week
17:17:47 [eprodrom]
ack aaronpk
17:17:57 [jasnell_]
https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/188
17:18:11 [tantek]
q+ to note that none of our user stories actually explicitly talk about collections, perhaps we should drop the feature from AS2
17:18:27 [rhiaro]
aaronpk: I do have what you're calling collections on my site. Different sets of things like the things I've favorited, or posts about bike rides. What is the purpose of making a machine readable value for the type?
17:18:38 [rhiaro]
... If you just name them, people can figure out what they are. What's the use case for machine readable?
17:18:41 [rhiaro]
jasnell: discoverability
17:18:46 [hhalpin]
hhalpin has joined #social
17:18:56 [rhiaro]
aaronpk: You can look at the names of things
17:18:57 [ben_thatmustbeme]
also, a type doesn't really give reason
17:19:03 [rhiaro]
jasnell: if it's a human doing the discovery then yes that works
17:19:27 [rhiaro]
... If you want to automate the discovery, having an identifier that's consistent and not subject to localisation issues, translations etc, then having the machine readable identifier is preferred
17:19:43 [rhiaro]
aaronpk: Okay, so finding specifically the list of what someone has liked, if you want to find everybody's streams of what they've liked
17:19:55 [rhiaro]
... Implies there is a vocabulary for this
17:20:02 [Loqi]
Tantekelik made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/Social syntax/User Stories]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=85037&oldid=81653
17:20:11 [rhiaro]
jasnell: It's very similar to the use of link rels, but rather than attaching it to the link it's attaching it to the object
17:20:17 [rhiaro]
... Just giving it a consistent label
17:20:27 [eprodrom]
ack tantek
17:20:27 [Zakim]
tantek, you wanted to note that none of our user stories actually explicitly talk about collections, perhaps we should drop the feature from AS2
17:20:59 [cwebber2]
+q
17:21:10 [rhiaro]
tantek: Wondering if the challenges we are having discussing collections is one example of... AS2 has a lot of features in that arrived with the first draft, but for example the whole notion of a collection is not actually in any of our user stories, except for one with multiple objects. User story about voting on user stories. Other than that there's no user stories with collections
17:21:16 [rhiaro]
... Maybe it's something we can drop.
17:21:34 [cwebber2]
-q
17:21:43 [rhiaro]
eprodrom: I'm not sure that's the case. In AS, most of the ideas of a stream or having multiple activities or objects available at a particular endpoint are implemented as collections
17:21:50 [rhiaro]
... Like being able to navigate someone's list of friends
17:21:51 [cwebber2]
I was just going to chime in that inboxes/outboxes in activitypump are collections
17:21:57 [wilkie]
how can you have a stream without the concept of a collection
17:22:05 [ben_thatmustbeme]
q+
17:22:07 [rhiaro]
tantek: I guess the challenge I'm having is that collections are like a simple array. Which I agree does make sense.
17:22:10 [rhiaro]
... That's just a data structure
17:22:12 [cwebber2]
so that's a lot of our user stories
17:22:27 [rhiaro]
... But when we start talking about giving a collection a special label or type, then I start to think that's not necessary for just having lists of friends
17:22:38 [rhiaro]
... The term collection might be being misused, or at least confusing
17:22:54 [eprodrom]
ack ben_thatmustbeme
17:23:00 [hhalpin]
A collection tends to be an unordered list, while an array is an ordered list.
17:23:03 [wilkie]
you still need some way of identifying the collection in meta. like, how many items does it have? etc
17:23:19 [hhalpin]
i.e. a set vs. an unordered set.
17:23:19 [jasnell_]
q+
17:23:25 [rhiaro]
ben_thatmustbeme: Couple of qustions. Once you specify one type: here's a collection that only contains favorites. What if my collection contains multiple types?
17:23:26 [hhalpin]
I think you can call it more or less whatever you want :)
17:23:32 [aaronpk]
i plan on publishing collections with multiple types of posts fwiw
17:23:32 [rhiaro]
... I could just to through the collection and find the type of everything that's in there
17:23:36 [csarven]
Wouldn't different typed items belong in different collections?
17:23:42 [rhiaro]
eprodrom: Good question
17:24:05 [rhiaro]
... In case of favorites, the thing favorited might be 'audio', 'video', 'note', etc. What makese them favorite is that they're members of this collection
17:24:06 [tantek]
this is odd because in practice we do have "likes" as objects/posts
17:24:13 [rhiaro]
jasnell: that's exactly the point
17:24:13 [aaronpk]
I already have multiple post types in the same "collection" actually (what I would call feed/stream) http://aaronparecki.com/metrics
17:24:23 [rhiaro]
... Just knowing the type of objects that are in that set don't tell you why they're there
17:24:32 [eprodrom]
friends
17:24:37 [aaronpk]
here are my likes http://aaronparecki.com/likes
17:24:48 [melvster]
collection is like an object in JS {}
17:24:57 [cwebber2]
I do like the way favorites/likes currently show up as objects in pump.io currently
17:25:14 [rhiaro]
... With AP, this notion of inbox and outbox. If you have one collection URL, how do you know whether it's an inbox or outbox? How do you know what it is for?
17:25:22 [cwebber2]
and yeah the permissions thing does happen, sometimes I see someone liked a thing I can't see what it is :)
17:25:26 [cwebber2]
that's an interesting thing
17:25:29 [rhiaro]
... Having some way to explicitly identify that roles makes it much more explicit
17:25:43 [rhiaro]
ben_thatmustbeme: Sounds like we need another set of vocabularies for types of collections
17:25:58 [KevinMarks]
no, melvster because {} requires named keys
17:26:08 [rhiaro]
jasnell: I'd rather avoid it. I'd rather not have it be extensive as another set of terms. But looking at the API we already have these notions.. We already see merging some of these concepts of different types of collections
17:26:23 [rhiaro]
tantek: What API for inbox?
17:26:23 [KevinMarks]
it a list [] without assumed order
17:26:31 [rhiaro]
jasnell: ActivityPump, pump.io
17:27:17 [rhiaro]
eprodrom: There's also list of friends, followers, people you're following, list of people you've put into a collection (like g+ circles).
17:27:23 [ben_thatmustbeme]
in many cases rel= and description could solve a lot of the issues
17:27:37 [melvster]
eprodom++
17:27:38 [Loqi]
eprodom has 1 karma
17:27:39 [cwebber2]
collections are critical to activitypump's current design
17:27:42 [rhiaro]
... The thing that's interesting here is that instead of having a list of friends, we have a list of the activities that created those friends
17:27:49 [melvster]
eprodrom++
17:27:50 [Loqi]
eprodrom has 22 karma
17:27:54 [rhiaro]
... I think that's an interesting question. I wonder if there is value to one side or the other
17:27:58 [rhiaro]
... To me I'd rather have the people than the activities
17:28:00 [cwebber2]
it would be a total restructuring of everything if that were dropped
17:28:06 [ben_thatmustbeme]
+1 to list of People, not activities
17:28:07 [rhiaro]
... I don't know if there's a good answer for the other
17:28:25 [cwebber2]
and it would have serious repercussions in what tsyesika is doing structuring things in mediagoblin too
17:28:36 [rhiaro]
jasnell: For things like your friends list, we have the relationship object, so you could have a collection of thos eobjects. You could infer friends from that. So not necessarily have the explicity purpose
17:28:51 [rhiaro]
... But for things like likes, favorites, sharing, saving. Those are much more difficult to infer
17:28:52 [cwebber2]
lots of things, playlists of audio/video, feeds of things you like, feeds you subscribe to, those are pretty critical
17:28:57 [rhiaro]
(infer from properties?)
17:29:04 [tantek]
or from name?
17:29:05 [eprodrom]
example.org/evan/favorites
17:29:17 [rhiaro]
eprodrom: Another thing you cold do to infer it is look at /favorites and see if a collection is returned to me
17:29:22 [rhiaro]
... Then I know what that is
17:29:40 [rhiaro]
... /favorites is an example url, could be /whatever. Just because I was looking for favorites.
17:29:43 [tsyesika]
cwebber2++
17:29:45 [Loqi]
cwebber2 has 38 karma
17:29:47 [rhiaro]
... Seems useful, not sure if it's crucial
17:29:55 [rhiaro]
tantek: I think I understand now what James was saying about rel values
17:30:13 [rhiaro]
... If you have a rel value that says rel="likes-feed" that gives you a way to do discoverability and the feed itself desn't have to say anything
17:30:17 [rhiaro]
eprodrom: this is almost the rev in html temrs
17:30:24 [rhiaro]
... These are the likes of someone else
17:30:40 [KevinMarks]
these are others' likes of my post? a facepile?
17:31:00 [rhiaro]
jasnell: There's a number of different ways of doing. Need to make a decision. Do we want to attempt to do everything implicitly where we look at the contents of the collection to see what it's for or do we want an explicit identifier
17:31:09 [rhiaro]
... Or do we do it with the object itself using link rel
17:31:16 [rhiaro]
... Just need to know what people would like to see
17:31:39 [rhiaro]
... Issue 188
17:31:48 [rhiaro]
eprodrom: Let's contineu the conversation in the issue
17:31:53 [rhiaro]
... And see if we have an update for our next call
17:32:06 [rhiaro]
... Let's move on if no more questions
17:32:15 [rhiaro]
TOPIC: Social API
17:32:24 [rhiaro]
There aren't actually any updates
17:32:32 [hhalpin]
scribenick: hhalpin
17:32:39 [rhiaro]
https://github.com/w3c-social/Social-APIs-Brainstorming/blob/master/socialapi.md
17:32:46 [rhiaro]
Not sure if people have looked at that
17:32:51 [hhalpin]
Should we move onto the Webmention topic then?
17:32:52 [rhiaro]
Just a few headers, with some comparison stuff
17:32:57 [rhiaro]
Not changed since last week though
17:33:08 [melvster]
I updated: https://github.com/w3c-social/social-ucr a fair amount
17:33:15 [eprodrom]
rhiaro: are you on the call?
17:33:36 [hhalpin]
rhiaro: we've put this document together but haven't had much feedback
17:33:41 [hhalpin]
... no time to update, so it's the same
17:33:55 [hhalpin]
... however, we encourage people to look at it, will be working on it by end of week
17:33:59 [hhalpin]
... start of strawman
17:34:16 [hhalpin]
eprodrom: moving from comparison to strawman
17:34:27 [hhalpin]
... still micropub and activitypump evolving side-by-side
17:34:54 [hhalpin]
... we'll continue this development and this doc will track those
17:35:04 [hhalpin]
rhiaro: if there's a convergence we add it there
17:35:20 [eprodrom]
q?
17:35:30 [hhalpin]
ack jasnell_
17:35:31 [eprodrom]
q- jasnell_
17:35:31 [jasnell_]
q-
17:35:56 [hhalpin]
eprodrom: Next steps is continued work in activitypump, micropub, and tracking similarities
17:36:17 [hhalpin]
tantek: As far as an update is concerned, I would be intereted in hearing when the prototypes are done
17:36:32 [hhalpin]
... there is a certain status right now, but how much is prototype and kinda working?
17:36:42 [hhalpin]
... or how much is an API design that hasn't been prototyped?
17:37:14 [hhalpin]
aaronpk: My goal is to drive contributions while I have code working on it
17:37:19 [hhalpin]
... I've got a backlog of code
17:37:31 [hhalpin]
... so that's why I haven't contributed as much
17:37:37 [hhalpin]
... as I'm coding first
17:38:05 [hhalpin]
eprodrom: Everyone on the call should understand that this work will have a convergened version that will have one spec, correct?
17:38:15 [hhalpin]
aaronpk: That was my understanding, but I don't want to make suggestions till the code works
17:38:21 [hhalpin]
rhiaro: Mine as well
17:38:52 [hhalpin]
... comparisons are definitly potential, as well as where htings are done diferently, maybe two optioins in one spec
17:39:07 [hhalpin]
eprodrom: Very reasonable sounds good!
17:39:17 [hhalpin]
topic: charter license update
17:39:32 [rhiaro]
scribenick: rhiaro
17:40:02 [rhiaro]
sandro: Nothing new to share with the group. Issues to straighten out, hoping to get approval from w3c tomorrow or a week from tomorrow, then will go to AC
17:40:12 [hhalpin]
scribenick: rhiaro
17:40:33 [rhiaro]
tantek: One of the actions assigned to me is define how implied post typing works. The more I write that up, the more it sounds like a spec
17:40:54 [rhiaro]
... Follow a sequence of steps. If I"m goign to contribute that as a spec, I'd like to do that with the new license
17:41:03 [rhiaro]
... So hopefully we'll get through the rechartering quickly
17:41:08 [rhiaro]
sandro: understood
17:41:12 [rhiaro]
eprodrom: Moving forward..
17:41:20 [rhiaro]
TOPIC: SWAT0 implementation
17:41:57 [rhiaro]
tantek: As background, SWAT0 is the Social Web Acid Test, is something that myself, evan and david (??) came up with almost five years ago at the Federated Social Web Summit
17:42:04 [KevinMarks]
recordon
17:42:19 [rhiaro]
... to provide a difficult challenge for different integrated social services to demonstrate that they are federating in such a way that satisfies a fairly common use case, even at the time, that people were using social networks for
17:42:26 [rhiaro]
... I'll summarise
17:42:40 [rhiaro]
... A takes photo of B with their phone and posts and tags B i in it
17:42:49 [rhiaro]
... Then B is notified that someone posted a tagged photo
17:43:07 [KevinMarks]
SWAT0 A posts+tags mobile photo of B B photo notified C(follows A) sees it; replies A&B comment notified
17:43:10 [rhiaro]
... Person C who is following A, sees the photo post from A and in the same interface, replies or comments o nthe photo
17:43:26 [rhiaro]
... Both A (author) and B (tagged) get notified
17:43:31 [rhiaro]
... about the comment
17:43:39 [rhiaro]
... THat's a fairly common thing people do on any photo social network service
17:43:44 [rhiaro]
... But noone does it across services
17:43:44 [melvster]
FYI: https://github.com/aaronpk/Micropub/blob/master/user-stories/SWAT0.md
17:43:44 [hhalpin]
+1 for getting this working!!
17:44:03 [aaronpk]
ooh I need to review that to see if it's accurate now that it's been implemented
17:44:07 [rhiaro]
... This weekend, we got that working with three different people, using three different pieces of software, running on their own sites, working with mobile phones
17:44:16 [rhiaro]
... A was ben_thatmustbeme
17:44:24 [rhiaro]
... took ap hoto with his phone of B (aaronpk)
17:44:29 [rhiaro]
... Posted it to site from his phone with micropub
17:44:35 [KevinMarks]
details with links: http://tantek.com/2015/193/t2/user-flow-permalinks-indieweb-swat0
17:44:39 [rhiaro]
... used webmentions to notify aaron's site that he tagged him in a photo
17:44:45 [rhiaro]
... aaron got notification on his phone immediately
17:44:55 [rhiaro]
... By the way, 3 different locations
17:44:58 [rhiaro]
... Portland, Boston, SF
17:45:16 [rhiaro]
... kylewm, subscribed to ben, saw the photo and commented
17:45:20 [rhiaro]
... comment went to ben and aaron
17:45:29 [rhiaro]
... ben and aaron got notifications
17:45:35 [rhiaro]
... There's a writeup and a video
17:45:46 [rhiaro]
... Appears we got that working
17:45:55 [rhiaro]
... This is our one approved user story
17:46:06 [rhiaro]
... Which we got working with micropub, webmentions and microformats
17:46:34 [rhiaro]
eprodrom: Great achievement. Congratulations in order
17:46:41 [melvster]
link to video would be great ....
17:46:46 [ben_thatmustbeme]
didn't we approve the unanimously +1'd user stories too? need to check previous minutes to double check
17:46:48 [rhiaro]
... Good show of the continued maturing of micropub, webmention and microformats
17:47:00 [eprodrom]
q?
17:47:13 [ben_thatmustbeme]
q+
17:47:19 [eprodrom]
ack ben_thatmustbeme
17:47:20 [rhiaro]
... Also an interesting challenge to folks working on SoLiD and ActivityPump to show the same kind of activity
17:47:30 [rhiaro]
ben_thatmustbeme: didn't we approve the +1'd user stories?
17:47:41 [rhiaro]
tantek: I vaguely remember that, but couldn't find it on the wiki. Can someone find that resolution?
17:47:47 [rhiaro]
... We should udpate the approved user stories accordingly
17:48:04 [rhiaro]
... Anybody else?
17:48:10 [rhiaro]
eprodrom: I'll take an action to see if we have that
17:48:15 [tantek]
here's what we have so far: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/User_stories#Approved_user_stories
17:48:17 [rhiaro]
... If we do I'll update the approved user stories
17:48:18 [melvster]
I have 13 listed here ... SoLiD have 5 implementations currently ... 6th in progress : https://github.com/w3c-social/social-ucr
17:48:20 [rhiaro]
... I remember it too
17:48:41 [rhiaro]
tantek: maybe one of us just dropped the ball in updating the wiki
17:49:02 [rhiaro]
... The nice thing about SWAT0 is that no one person or implementation can claim to implement SWAT0. You have to have at least two different pieces of software
17:49:20 [rhiaro]
... One of the things we learned that there are very different implementation requirements for A vs B vs C
17:49:30 [rhiaro]
... Identifying those requirements was part of the challenge
17:49:41 [rhiaro]
... Especially for people making their own, it may be easier to play on eof those roles rather than another
17:49:49 [rhiaro]
... But then, it maybe be possible to create software that does all three
17:49:56 [rhiaro]
... There aren't any I'm aware of currently in indieweb
17:50:03 [rhiaro]
... statusnet originally could do all three?
17:50:20 [rhiaro]
... That's maybe another bar to achieve. A piece of software that can play all three roles. I don't think we've had any since statusnet
17:50:36 [rhiaro]
eprodrom: This is good step forward. I appreciate everyone's work on it
17:50:40 [rhiaro]
... Anything else to talk about here?
17:50:42 [rhiaro]
tantek: Any questions?
17:50:43 [tantek]
q?
17:50:46 [melvster]
would love to see the indieweb version of SWAT0 interoperate with one of SoLiD and/or ActivityPump, if that is at all feasible
17:51:04 [eprodrom]
melvster, are you on the call?
17:51:31 [melvster]
following on irc
17:51:32 [rhiaro]
eprodrom: I'mnot sure if that is feasible. By the definition of those groupings.
17:51:33 [KevinMarks]
if Solid marks up with mf2 and sends webmentions, sure it is
17:51:47 [rhiaro]
... We're not talking about pieces of software as much as groups of software that implement particular protocols
17:51:57 [aaronpk]
you could certainly upload the photo via a SoLiD api instead of the micropub api
17:52:07 [rhiaro]
tantek: certainly possible if there's a solid or AP implementation that published microformats or sends webmentions. Would be a cool bridge.
17:52:12 [KevinMarks]
you cna send webmentions externally to the page too
17:52:21 [KevinMarks]
so just needs mf2 in html
17:52:23 [rhiaro]
... If anyone is implementing SoLiD or AP based pieces of software, see if you can also publish in your html microformats
17:52:33 [rhiaro]
... If you need help with webmention there are a ton of libraries that are simple to use to call that
17:52:41 [KevinMarks]
(I think tantek and me are saying the same thing in parallel)
17:52:49 [aaronpk]
check out http://indiewebcamp.com/SWAT0#implementation_requirements and see which of A, B or C is easiest to implement
17:52:56 [rhiaro]
eprodrom: The client API could be solid or AP or micropub, and the server to server is using webmention
17:52:57 [KevinMarks]
exactly evan
17:53:02 [rhiaro]
tantek: each of the different players is talking whatever with its server
17:53:11 [rhiaro]
... the federation depends on webmention and microformats as far as I can tell
17:53:17 [KevinMarks]
also the notification wiring
17:53:18 [rhiaro]
eprodrom: yes. Interesting to see that happen
17:53:21 [ben_thatmustbeme]
that would be cool
17:53:23 [rhiaro]
... Move on:
17:53:33 [rhiaro]
TOPIC: Outstanding actions and issues
17:53:42 [rhiaro]
eprodrom: No pending or raised issues that we haven't dealt with
17:53:43 [eprodrom]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/open
17:53:53 [rhiaro]
... Would like to ask if we have any of our open issues that we'd like to report progress on?
17:54:02 [eprodrom]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/71
17:54:02 [rhiaro]
... I will report progress on action 71
17:54:05 [rhiaro]
action-71
17:54:05 [trackbot]
action-71 -- Evan Prodromou to Break up github issue 133 into several ones, and close 133 -- due 2015-07-14 -- OPEN
17:54:06 [trackbot]
http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/71
17:54:21 [rhiaro]
... Is now complete. Will close.
17:54:30 [rhiaro]
... Any others?
17:54:57 [rhiaro]
... So that's the end of the agenda.
17:55:01 [rhiaro]
... Anything else?
17:55:04 [ben_thatmustbeme]
https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-05-12-minutes
17:55:16 [ben_thatmustbeme]
' RESOLVED: accept all user stories that are entirely positive as official user stories '
17:55:28 [rhiaro]
eprodrom: One thing that tantek, I and staff contacts have discussed is cutting down on our meeting schedule for the next few weeks, since we are into vacation season
17:55:32 [tantek]
ben_thatmustbeme++
17:55:34 [Loqi]
ben_thatmustbeme has 100 karma
17:55:34 [KevinMarks]
well found ben
17:55:39 [cwebber2]
and I'll be at OSCON next week
17:55:43 [cwebber2]
(will anyone else?)
17:55:46 [rhiaro]
... Starting next week, we would skeip every other meeting
17:56:04 [rhiaro]
... We would have no meeting on 21st, but one on 28th
17:56:07 [rhiaro]
... (etc)
17:56:11 [tantek]
ben_thatmustbeme: FYI, "entirely positive" means these: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/Sorting_user_stories#Entirely_Positive
17:56:15 [rhiaro]
... In september we would pick up our regular meeting schedule
17:56:18 [rhiaro]
... To deal with absences etc
17:56:23 [rhiaro]
... any objections?
17:56:52 [aaronpk]
cwebber2: I'm in Portland but not going to oscon!
17:57:01 [rhiaro]
tantek: so next meeting 28th?
17:57:02 [wilkie]
cwebber2: I'll be in Portland too!
17:57:03 [rhiaro]
eprodrom: yes
17:57:09 [wilkie]
aaronpk: let's have a get-together
17:57:11 [aaronpk]
video of swat0 demo! http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/07/14/1/indiewebcamp
17:57:14 [cwebber2]
aaronpk: wilkie: ooh, yeah get-together would be great
17:57:16 [rhiaro]
... ajourn!
17:57:17 [eprodrom]
trackbot, end meeting
17:57:17 [trackbot]
Zakim, list attendees
17:57:17 [Zakim]
sorry, trackbot, I don't know what conference this is
17:57:19 [cwebber2]
ok later everyone!
17:57:22 [tantek]
eprodrom++ for chairing!
17:57:24 [Loqi]
eprodrom has 23 karma
17:57:25 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:57:25 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/14-social-minutes.html trackbot
17:57:26 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, bye
17:57:26 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items