18:46:54 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
18:46:54 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/07/14-aapi-irc
18:46:56 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
18:46:56 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aapi
18:46:58 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
18:46:58 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
18:46:59 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
18:46:59 <trackbot> Date: 14 July 2015
18:47:30 <clown> agenda: this
18:47:36 <clown> agneda+ ACTION-1625 (Joseph, All) Mappings for aria-interactive property.
18:47:50 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1625 (Joseph, All) Mappings for aria-interactive property.
18:47:57 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1322: (Jon, All) Examples for aria-hidden="false", including live regions.
18:48:03 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1541: (James) AXAPI mapping for aria-modal.
18:48:09 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1535: (James) AXAPI mapping for aria-current.
18:48:15 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1608: (Cynthia) Bring up issue-708 with html-a11y taskforce (conditions for inclusion within a11y tree).
18:48:22 <clown> agenda+ Bugzilla-28816 (All)  Some ARIA roles lacking explicit a11y API role mappings.
18:48:28 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1660/ISSUE-714 (Joanie) ATK/AT-SPI mapping of aria-roledescription.
18:48:35 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1661/ISSUE-714 (Cynthia) UIA mapping of aria-roledescription (UIA Express?)
18:48:44 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1662/ISSUE-714 (Alex) IA2 mapping of aria-roledescription.
18:48:51 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1622: (Alex) MSAA+IA2 mapping of aria-placeholder.
18:48:57 <clown> agenda+ Action/issue triage (https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23)
18:49:04 <clown> agenda+ be done.
18:49:06 <clown> agenda?
18:56:00 <clown> present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:56:06 <clown> chair: Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:58:25 <joanie> as the url just loaded in firefox and told me my browser wasn't supported
19:00:08 <joanie> me tries just the number
19:12:20 <clown> action-1160?
19:12:20 <trackbot> action-1160 -- Janina Sajka to Take at look at MediaStream Recording http://www.w3.org/TR/2013/WD-mediastream-recording-20130205/ -- due 2013-02-13 -- CLOSED
19:12:20 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1160
19:12:30 <clown> action-1661?
19:12:30 <trackbot> action-1661 -- Cynthia Shelly to Propose uia express and uia mappings for aria-description. -- due 2015-07-22 -- OPEN
19:12:30 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1661
19:12:51 <clown> action-1660?
19:12:51 <trackbot> action-1660 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Propose the ATK/AT-SPI mappings for aria-roledescription. -- due 2015-06-30 -- OPEN
19:12:51 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1660
19:19:02 <clown> action-1662?
19:19:02 <trackbot> action-1662 -- Alexander Surkov to Propose IA2 mapping for aria-description -- due 2015-06-30 -- OPEN
19:19:02 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1662
19:21:39 <joanie> scribe: joanie
19:22:55 <cyns> cyns has joined #aapi
19:23:12 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 1
19:23:12 <Zakim> agendum 1. "ACTION-1625 (Joseph, All) Mappings for aria-interactive property." taken up [from clown]
19:23:18 <clown> action-1625?
19:23:18 <trackbot> action-1625 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Add interactive property to core mappings that propogates from grid or table to all grid aria grid or table structural elements. the interactive property should have same mapping as defined in issue 633 -- due 2015-09-08 -- OPEN
19:23:19 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1625
19:23:37 <joanie> JS: There was a proposal in the caucus to have an aria-interactive.
19:23:41 <clown> issue-633?
19:23:41 <trackbot> issue-633 -- listbox and tree may contain only static items; badly need interactive widgets that can contain interactive typed items -- open
19:23:41 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/633
19:23:46 <joanie> JS: That is isue 633.
19:23:53 <joanie> CS: I thought that was discarded.
19:24:03 <joanie> JS: It's disappeared.
19:24:15 <clown> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=27866
19:24:25 <joanie> JS: Michael has commented that it's closed for tables, but we still need to address it for other objects.
19:24:34 <joanie> JS: Ah, this is by Dominic.
19:24:49 <joanie> JS: Need to introduce attribute to indicate key handlers.
19:25:02 <joanie> JS: But I think that's been replaced with the aria-hotkey.
19:25:12 <joanie> JS: So I don't think we need this.
19:25:23 <clown> action-1505?
19:25:23 <trackbot> action-1505 -- Matthew King to Create an aria-interactive property for issue 633 -- due 2015-05-08 -- CLOSED
19:25:23 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1505
19:25:48 <joanie> BG: But this interactive propoerty I think is an indication that ATs should not control the interaction.
19:26:11 <joanie> JS: I'll bring this up at the next Thursday call and ask if this thing still exists.
19:26:27 <joanie> JS: Because it doesn't make sense to propose mappings for it if it isn't going to be added to the spec.
19:27:22 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:27:22 <Zakim> agendum 2. "ACTION-1322: (Jon, All) Examples for aria-hidden="false", including live regions." taken up [from clown]
19:27:28 <clown> action-1322?
19:27:28 <trackbot> action-1322 -- Jon Gunderson to Make some examples for aria-hidden="false" (including a hidden live region) -- due 2014-09-29 -- OPEN
19:27:28 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1322
19:27:53 <joanie> JS: This is an action I discovered which is way past due on Jon Gunderson to make examples on aria-hiden="false" including live regions.
19:28:12 <joanie> JS: I've emailed to Jon to ask him what this is all about because I do not know. Also, which is this associated with the mapping spec.
19:28:18 <joanie> s/spec./spec?/
19:28:25 <joanie> JS: I've not yet heard back from Jon.
19:28:33 <joanie> JS: Does anyone here know why?
19:28:47 <joanie> BG: (Requests repeat)
19:29:48 <joanie> JS: (Repeats it)
19:30:10 <joanie> CS: Maybe this is for the authoring guide.
19:30:28 <joanie> CS: Why don't we just change it to that product?
19:30:46 <joanie> JS: Bryan, are you (in the authoring group) still working on 1.1?
19:30:49 <joanie> BG: Yes.
19:30:58 <joanie> JS: Ok, I'll transfer it to your group then.
19:31:01 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:31:01 <Zakim> agendum 3. "ACTION-1541: (James) AXAPI mapping for aria-modal." taken up [from clown]
19:31:35 <joanie> JS: This one and the next one, I've sent at least three emails related to mapping .
19:31:47 <joanie> JS: I've not heard back.
19:32:05 <clown> action-1541?
19:32:05 <trackbot> action-1541 -- James Craig to Investigate and propose mappings for aria-modal property for axapi. -- due 2014-12-02 -- OPEN
19:32:05 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1541
19:32:17 <joanie> JD: I think they have a modal property; don't know about current.
19:32:31 <joanie> JS: I made that suggestion for modal.
19:32:39 <joanie> CS: I remember that discussion. I think it's a good idea.
19:32:40 <clown> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=138566
19:32:50 <joanie> JS: There's an existing WebKit bug (url above)
19:33:07 <joanie> JS: So he's working on it, I guess.
19:33:21 <joanie> JS: So we should monitor this bug until it's finished.
19:34:42 <joanie> JD: I'll CC myself to that bug and take a look when I get back home.
19:35:06 <joanie> JD: If it's easy enough, I might as well do it myself, but I need a Safari dev environment (which I have at home).
19:35:17 <joanie> JS: I'll set the date to August 18.
19:35:27 <clown> action-1535?
19:35:27 <trackbot> action-1535 -- James Craig to Investigate the axapi mappings for aria-current. -- due 2014-11-25 -- OPEN
19:35:27 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1535
19:36:16 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:36:16 <Zakim> agendum 4. "ACTION-1535: (James) AXAPI mapping for aria-current." taken up [from clown]
19:36:50 <joanie> JS: Looking at action-1535, AXAPI mapping for aria-current. Again, I sent email to James but no response so far.
19:37:07 <joanie> JS: I'm not sure if there is a webkit but filed for this or not. I'll look.
19:37:10 <joanie> JS: There is one:
19:37:13 <clown> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146012
19:37:55 <joanie> JS: So I'll add myself to the CC list. On the action I'll note this bug and move the due date to August.
19:38:26 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:38:26 <Zakim> agendum 5. "ACTION-1608: (Cynthia) Bring up issue-708 with html-a11y taskforce (conditions for inclusion within a11y tree)." taken up [from clown]
19:38:32 <clown> action-1608?
19:38:32 <trackbot> action-1608 -- Cynthia Shelly to Bring up issue-708 with the html-a11y taskforce. -- due 2015-06-30 -- OPEN
19:38:32 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1608
19:38:42 <clown> issue-708?
19:38:42 <trackbot> issue-708 -- The phrase "If not already excluded from the accessibility tree per the rules above" implies that the listed conditions do not override. Is that correct? -- open
19:38:42 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/708
19:38:49 <joanie> CS: Which relates to issue-708 right?
19:39:10 <joanie> CS: I re-read the section and think the current text is right.
19:39:21 <joanie> CS: The text is strangely worded.
19:39:35 <joanie> CS: Presentation removes it from the tree unless it's focusable, etc.
19:39:50 <joanie> CS: It's not adding stuff back; it's just exceptions.
19:40:09 <joanie> JS: I responded to your comment with another comment.
19:40:33 <joanie> JS: Stating I agreed with you with respect to display:none and visibility hidden and html5 hidden.
19:40:49 <joanie> JS: But if it's focusable, etc. It should be exposed.
19:41:00 <joanie> CS: And that's exactly what the text says.
19:41:09 <joanie> CS: Presentation is ignored in those cases.
19:41:19 <joanie> CS: It's awkwardly worded.
19:41:53 <joanie> CS: If you agree on my read on that....
19:41:59 <joanie> JS: I'm not sure I do.
19:42:22 <joanie> CS + JS: Agreement to work on the wording in the document, but not during the call.
19:42:39 <joanie> JS: Let me think about it. I'll take the action on.
19:42:56 <joanie> JS: We'll close the action.
19:43:06 <joanie> RESOLUTION: Close action-1608
19:43:45 <joanie> JS: I'll add a comment.
19:44:42 <clown> action:  Joseph to propose new wording, as an editorial change only to clarify the inclusion rules in section 5.1.2
19:44:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1681 - Propose new wording, as an editorial change only to clarify the inclusion rules in section 5.1.2 [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-07-21].
19:44:53 <clown> action-1681?
19:44:53 <trackbot> action-1681 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Propose new wording, as an editorial change only to clarify the inclusion rules in section 5.1.2 -- due 2015-07-21 -- OPEN
19:44:53 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1681
19:45:33 <joanie> Zakim, next item
19:45:33 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Bugzilla-28816 (All)  Some ARIA roles lacking explicit a11y API role mappings." taken up [from clown]
19:46:11 <clown> https://bugs.webkit.org/show_bug.cgi?id=146239
19:48:02 <clown> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=28816
19:48:28 <joanie> JS: In the above issue, Jason reported that certain roles lacked explicit role mappings.
19:48:55 <joanie> JS: Cynthia replied on the bug what should be done for UIA.
19:49:04 <clown> <p role="banner">
19:49:14 <joanie> JS: Jason was okay with that, but we've since found some issues.
19:49:42 <joanie> JS: Given <p role="banner"> Firefox mapped it to ROLE_PARAGRAPH, but then used xml-roles.
19:50:06 <joanie> CS: In UIA, that would be mapped to group.
19:50:19 <joanie> JS: For these roles, Firefox always uses the tag.
19:50:30 <joanie> CS: UIA does not have roles for document structures.
19:51:12 <joanie> CS: The architecture of the APIs is different. Anything that is not UI, we map to a generic group and then put the role string in there so the screen reader will say it's a banner.
19:51:16 <clown> <button role="banner">
19:51:42 <joanie> JS: I'm waiting on Alex and/or Joanie.
19:52:33 <clown> <div role="banner">  is mapped as ROLE_LANDMARK and xml-roles:banner.
19:52:54 <clown> <p role="banner">  is mapped as ROLE_PARAGRAPH and xml-roles:banner.
19:53:09 <joanie> JD: I would think if a paragraph has a role indicating it's a landmark, it should be mapped as a landmark.
19:53:48 <joanie> JS: States the mapping differences above.
19:53:55 <joanie> CS: That is not how ARIA is supposed to work.
19:54:18 <joanie> JD: I agree with Cynthia.
19:54:30 <clown> I wonder what FF does with <button role="banner">?  Problably ROLE_BUTTON and xml-roles:banner.
19:54:44 <clown> s/Problably/Probably/
19:55:10 <joanie> JD: If the author says "this is a banner" then it's a banner; it's not a paragraph.
19:55:20 <clown> <p role="button"> ROLE_BUTTON.
19:55:24 <joanie> JD: A paragraph that's a banner makes no sense (to me).
19:55:51 <joanie> JS: If you have a paragraph with role button, it's mapped as a button and the paragraph aspect is lost.
19:56:14 <joanie> JS: I've commented on the bug to ask Alex about this to find out why the paragraph is not being mapped as a landmark in this particular case.
19:56:43 <joanie> JS: Jason has requested info from Alex, Joanie, and Cynthia.
19:57:18 <joanie> JD: I will comment.
19:57:25 <joanie> CS: I think I commented already, right?
19:57:33 <joanie> JS: Yes you (Cynthia) did.
19:57:37 <clown> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=28816#c7
19:57:54 <joanie> JS: The above URL has my suggested wording.
20:00:13 <clown> - Expose as text string 'navigation' in AriaRole.
20:00:13 <clown> - Group control type with a localized control type based on the AriaRole.
20:02:03 <cyns> change "Group control type with a localized control type based on the AriaRole." to "Group control type with a localized control type of 'navigation'."
20:02:33 <clown> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=28816#c8
20:02:45 <joanie> JS: Jason's latest comment has a list of a bunch more (above URL)
20:03:04 <joanie> CS: The landmark role we did in Window 10, they're in Edge.
20:03:32 <joanie> JS: He's finding no mappings in UIA for article, form, note, and log.
20:03:41 <joanie> CS: I think we did those in Windows 10.
20:03:47 <joanie> s/Window 10/Windows 10/
20:03:54 <joanie> JS: Could you comment on the bug?
20:03:59 <joanie> CS: Yes. I'll do that.
20:04:11 <joanie> Zakim, part
20:04:11 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
20:05:13 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs, Bryan_Garaventa, Cynthia_Shelly
20:05:45 <joanie> regrets: Rich_Schwerdtfeger
20:06:03 <joanie> RRSAgent, make minutes
20:06:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/14-aapi-minutes.html joanie
20:06:43 <joanie> RRSAgent, stop