14:42:06 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
14:42:06 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-wai-wcag-irc
14:42:08 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:42:10 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
14:42:10 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
14:42:11 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
14:42:11 <trackbot> Date: 07 July 2015
14:42:46 <Kenny> zakim, agenda?
14:42:46 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
14:42:47 <Zakim> 4. Discussion of breakdown of WG/TF tasks. [from Kenny]
14:43:03 <Kenny> zakim, clear agenda
14:43:03 <Zakim> agenda cleared
14:45:06 <Kenny> agenda+  WCAG meeting Schedule: will meeting on 7 July, 21 July, 11 August, will be no meetings on 14 July, 28 July, 4 August
14:45:36 <Kenny> agenda+  Github issues  https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues
14:45:49 <Kenny> agenda+  QRG Updates with Eric
14:47:07 <Kenny> agenda+ Review of TF survey results & reviving the Techniques TF
14:47:28 <Kenny> agenda+ TF co-ordination discussion
14:53:47 <laura> laura has joined #wai-wcag
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14:59:43 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #wai-wcag
15:01:42 <Mike_Elledge> Mike_Elledge has joined #wai-wcag
15:02:14 <Louis> Louis has joined #wai-wcag
15:02:22 <Louis> present+ Louis
15:02:38 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
15:03:00 <marcjohlic> present+ marcjohlic
15:03:04 <yatil> present+EricE
15:03:15 <yatil> s/present+EricE/present+ EricE
15:03:26 <Joshue108> Joshue108 has joined #wai-wcag
15:03:30 <bruce_bailey> bruce_bailey has joined #wai-wcag
15:03:41 <laura>  present+ Laura
15:03:50 <Kenny> present+ Kenny
15:03:54 <bruce_bailey> present+ Bruce_Bailey
15:05:00 <MichaelC> present+ MichaelC
15:05:07 <MichaelC> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2015JulSep/0023.html
15:06:21 <yatil> present+ Wayne_Dick
15:07:48 <jon_avila> scribe: jon_avila
15:08:11 <jon_avila> zakim, take up ntext
15:08:11 <Zakim> I don't understand 'take up ntext', jon_avila
15:08:16 <jon_avila> zakim, take up next
15:08:16 <Zakim> agendum 1. "WCAG meeting Schedule: will meeting on 7 July, 21 July, 11 August, will be no meetings on 14 July, 28 July, 4 August" taken up [from Kenny]
15:09:50 <jon_avila> mc: schedule based on survey of quorum.  This will help us test out our asynchronous process.
15:10:15 <jon_avila> zakim, take up next
15:10:15 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Github issues  https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues" taken up [from Kenny]
15:10:48 <Wayne> Wayne has joined #wai-wcag
15:11:03 <Wayne> +
15:11:04 <jon_avila> mc: Laura was asking what the mechanism is to get added.  Eric indicates you have to be added to a special team to get access.
15:11:25 <jon_avila> mc: There is a WCAG contributors team that allows you to have issues assigned to you
15:11:40 <jon_avila> mc: to send lauracarlson an invite.
15:12:20 <jon_avila> eric: you can't actually assign issues to yourself -- you only have read access.
15:12:50 <jon_avila> mc: interface shows who is assigned by a small image.  Laura wants access to issue 105.
15:13:13 <jon_avila> mc: will come back to it as it's not allowed until you have accepted the invite.
15:13:25 <jon_avila> mc: will start from top of list and see if we can get people to take issues.
15:14:38 <jon_avila> mc: issue #23 should be assigned to me (MC)
15:14:56 <David> David has joined #wai-wcag
15:16:12 <jon_avila> jo: regarding the red flash issue -- Marcjohlic worked on that issue and response seemed to be ok
15:16:54 <jon_avila> mc: closing #69 with notes
15:17:44 <jon_avila> mc: Issue 70 assigned to Joshua O
15:19:05 <jon_avila> MC: Issue 71 - draft technique - wording has been drafted but we haven't surveyed agenda it.  Indicates it is related to #70.
15:19:23 <jon_avila> jo: some of these are older github issues -- good for us to walk through these.
15:20:00 <jon_avila> mc: Issue 78 - WCAG issues for low vision users.  Marc made a comment.  Josh filed it.
15:20:42 <jon_avila> mc: probably related to proposed low vision task force.
15:21:08 <jon_avila> mc: Can we assign to Wayne?
15:21:19 <jon_avila> wayne: I can put up something to start from.
15:21:30 <jon_avila> mc: Please give us your github name.
15:21:56 <jon_avila> mc: Make a note to assign #78 to Wayne
15:22:40 <jon_avila> mc: #82 is about getting github id's to assign people to a group.  MC to close.
15:23:01 <jon_avila> mc: #83 investigate issue with flexbox and other CSS issues.
15:23:30 <jon_avila> jo: give it to Andrew or Marc
15:23:48 <jon_avila> *marc will you be able to take #83?
15:24:57 <jon_avila> mc: #84 may be related to #83 so let's assign to Marc as well
15:25:34 <jon_avila> mc: #89 was assigned to Loretta who is no longer in WG.  We need to reassign.  This is related to Makoto's questions.
15:26:00 <jon_avila> mc: #89 can be closed after reading notes in github
15:26:24 <jon_avila> mc: #91 people are confused by future reference technique links in WCAG notes.  Assign to MC
15:27:26 <jon_avila> mc: #92 PDF headers and footers.  We need to bring our technique into alignment with PDF best practices.  Assign to David Macdonald
15:29:17 <jon_avila> mc: #94 need to close and review technique coming with #95.  Can assign to Wayne.
15:30:41 <jon_avila> mc: issue #95 assigned to wobleduck (Wayne Dick)
15:31:16 <jon_avila> mc: #96 low vision contrast not mentioned.  Assign to Wayne as well.
15:32:11 <jon_avila> mc: #98 can text shadowing be used to meet requirements.
15:33:04 <jon_avila> #96 should be #98
15:35:13 <jon_avila> mc: #100 assigned to JO
15:35:32 <jon_avila> mc: #101 is related to 100. Assign to JO as well
15:35:54 <jon_avila> mc: #102 redirects
15:36:00 <jon_avila> MikeE: will take
15:38:28 <jon_avila> eric: to add MikeElledge to github collaborator
15:39:32 <jon_avila> mc: #103 - list is empty - JO to take
15:39:41 <jon_avila> mc: #104 seems like a duplicate to #103
15:40:17 <jon_avila> mc: vote to close #104 as duplicate of #103
15:40:21 <jon_avila> wayne: will take #103
15:41:13 <jon_avila> Mc: #105 - assigned to LauraCarlson
15:41:40 <jon_avila> mc: #106 is public comment.  Louis to take
15:43:19 <jon_avila> zakim, take up next
15:43:19 <Zakim> agendum 3. "QRG Updates with Eric" taken up [from Kenny]
15:44:22 <yatil> http://w3c.github.io/wai-wcag-quickref/8
15:44:45 <jon_avila> eric: quick update for the quick reference guide.  Current mock up provided.  Shaping up nicely.  Happy with UI.
15:46:21 <jon_avila> jo: any other comments on question for Eric?
15:47:52 <jon_avila> eric: found out that users wouldn't find the filters if they didn't expect to find them.
15:48:37 <jon_avila> mc: think we would use W3C policy on US with straight quotes
15:48:42 <jon_avila> eric: will be an update this week
15:51:35 <jon_avila> eric: uses flex box.  Flexbox in FF changes the tab order.  Other browsers do not.
15:52:42 <jon_avila> dm: tab order skips over the inserted content for filters and jumps directly to percievable
15:53:20 <jon_avila> david: thanks to Eric
15:53:33 <jon_avila> zakim, take up next
15:53:33 <Zakim> agendum 5. "TF co-ordination discussion" taken up [from Kenny]
15:54:19 <jon_avila> ja: Tab order seems to work right in FF.  I was having trouble in Chrome.  Thanks Eric.
15:54:36 <jon_avila> jo: review the TF page and see if you are interested.
15:55:35 <bruce_bailey> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/TFoptions2015/
15:55:45 <laura> Usability, UCD, UX, or "Usable Accessibility" TF and Extension
15:55:46 <laura> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2015JulSep/0026.html
15:55:52 <laura> Digital Instructional Materials TF and Extension
15:55:52 <laura> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2015JulSep/0025.html
15:56:13 <jon_avila> link to survey https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/TFoptions2015/
15:56:41 <jon_avila> mc: potentially 4 TF here. We would need to have more discuss of what would go into them.  We have a lot on the plate.
15:57:24 <David> Present+ David MacDonald
15:59:08 <jon_avila> khs: interested in low vision and user experience.
15:59:19 <Mike_Elledge> q+
15:59:41 <jon_avila> davidmac: What is Laura's proposal? Usable Experience task force and another would be an instructional materials TF
15:59:51 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
15:59:55 <jon_avila> mc: These are 3 separate agenda items.
16:00:36 <jon_avila> mc: take up next proposals as separate item.
16:01:05 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
16:01:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
16:01:41 <jon_avila> JO: let's keep these topic separate.
16:01:57 <jon_avila> mc: Low vision TF should be formed in the next few weeks.
16:02:09 <jon_avila> JO: We need people to assist in ARIA and HTML techniques TF
16:02:20 <jon_avila> jo: any takers?
16:02:25 <jon_avila> ME: would be interesting
16:02:53 <jon_avila> DM: Could write up techniques from time to time
16:04:54 <jon_avila> wayne: Can assist with ARIA
16:05:20 <jon_avila> louis: interesting can assist with techniques
16:06:40 <jon_avila> mc: If you want to join mobile or cognitive let me know and I can add you.  Low vision will be moving soon.  Techniques we will be talking more about.
16:07:14 <jon_avila> jn: will there be separate mailing lists
16:07:36 <jon_avila> mc: Low vision will be on separate like mobile and cognitive.  Haven't thought through techniques yet -- but probably.
16:07:53 <jon_avila> jn: Is there anything to stop someone from subscribing the list to monitor it?
16:08:13 <jon_avila> mc: Depends on the group. Tasks might have a more open policy.  We need to sort that out with the facilitators.
16:08:18 <jon_avila> jn: they are all public mailing lists
16:09:00 <jon_avila> mc: could be confusing if WG post to list but are not participants can be confusing.
16:09:17 <jon_avila> mc: talked about subscription that you can receive but cannot post.
16:09:48 <jon_avila> zakim, take up next
16:09:48 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, jon_avila
16:10:00 <jon_avila> q?
16:10:58 <jon_avila> MC: Laura do you want to make your pitch on your proposed task forces.
16:11:08 <MichaelC> ack m
16:11:20 <MichaelC> topic: New task force proposals
16:11:30 <laura> Usability, UCD, UX, or '"Usable Accessibility'" TF and Extension
16:11:36 <laura> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2015JulSep/0026.html
16:12:30 <jon_avila> Laura: In the past criticizing WCAG for being ambiguous to usability and not having guidelines, etc.  Reviewed two of those studies as part of the issues post WCAG 2.
16:13:49 <jon_avila> Laura: people say whether someone can use a site doesn't relate to accessibility but whether someone can use the site.  Wanted to have a discussion on the topic.  Quite a bit of discussion occurred on the list.
16:14:01 <jamesn> q+ to talk about the subjectivity of usability
16:14:55 <Wayne> q+
16:15:18 <jon_avila> DM: When usability issue causes a disproportional issue for people with a disability then it can be seen as an accessibility issue.  We initially had so much to tackle this is what we initially did.
16:16:34 <jon_avila> jo: Higher degree of importance now on usability and the quality of the user experience.  It's something we have to address that is part of the stack.
16:16:45 <Wayne> +1
16:17:00 <jon_avila> laura: DOJ is citing usability and accessibility in their lawsuits.
16:17:07 <jamesn> ack me
16:17:07 <Zakim> jamesn, you wanted to talk about the subjectivity of usability
16:17:53 <jon_avila> jn: Concerned with the subjectivity of usability.  WCAG tries to be black and white and not interpreted.  Usability cannot do that.  How can you write testable usabiility guidelines for WCAG as they are subjective.
16:18:16 <jon_avila> jo: just being something isn't testable doesn't mean it doesn't affect users with disabilities.
16:18:34 <jon_avila> mc: we will have to careful consider what the requirements for WCAG next will be. It needs to be a part of the discussion.
16:19:12 <jon_avila> dm: New techniques such as swiping and infinite scrolling.  This are constantly changing and it takes so long to get a standard through.
16:19:45 <laura> Digital Instructional Materials TF and Extension
16:19:51 <laura> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2015JulSep/0025.html
16:20:58 <MichaelC> q+
16:21:24 <jon_avila> laura: Advocates and orgs representing institutions and publishers have been at disagreement.  Now working out agreement in commission as part of the Teach Act and look at gaps in instructional materials and come up with voluntary guidelines.
16:21:47 <Mike_Elledge> q+
16:21:51 <MichaelC> ack w
16:21:53 <jon_avila> laura: if something isn't there someone might write their own.
16:21:54 <jon_avila> q?
16:22:05 <Wayne> I have lost my audio
16:22:15 <MichaelC> q+
16:22:19 <MichaelC> q+ wayne
16:22:31 <MichaelC> ack me
16:23:31 <jon_avila> mc: other works on digital publishing and accessibility of digital publishing going on in W3C.  There is two TF on digital accessibility inclusion.  Learning materials may not be core focus but it is high on their radar.  We would want to reach out to other stake holders at W3C.
16:23:58 <jon_avila> laura: spoke with David Sloan and Sarah Horton.  Just ran survey and would share results w/ Laura.  They are exploring the same area too.
16:24:15 <jon_avila> mc: There is an interest group in addition to the community group that is actively working on materials.
16:24:19 <MichaelC> http://www.w3.org/blog/2015/06/planning-the-future-of-the-digital-publishing-interest-group/
16:24:41 <MichaelC> ack m
16:24:46 <jnurthen> jnurthen has joined #wai-wcag
16:25:37 <jon_avila> me: in the Penn state settlement WCAG was referenced for online materials.
16:25:40 <jon_avila> laura: There is some precedent.  Montana as well.  The two most recent ones they have escape clause such as other standards or combination of standards.
16:26:38 <laura> The Technology, Education and Accessibility in College and Higher Education (TEACH) Act
16:26:38 <jon_avila> me: Should look at what gaps there are in WCAG.  That would be first thing TF should look into.
16:26:39 <laura> https://nfb.org/TEACH
16:27:11 <Wayne> no
16:27:26 <jon_avila> laura: does NFB have a WAI participant.
16:27:45 <jon_avila> mc: Not aware of any
16:27:54 <Wayne> This is very important.  Assessment, interactive materials and the community wants to soften responsibility.
16:28:31 <jon_avila> jo: no call next week.   Next call will be the 21st.
16:28:59 <jon_avila> mc: check mailing list and process github issues that you have assigned.
16:29:08 <jon_avila> jo: thank you all.
16:29:11 <laura> bye
16:29:14 <Kenny> bye
16:29:21 <jon_avila> rrsagent, list attendees
16:29:21 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'list attendees', jon_avila.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:29:25 <jon_avila> zakim, list attendees
16:29:25 <Zakim> sorry, jon_avila, I don't know what conference this is
16:30:06 <jon_avila> zakim, this is wai-wcag
16:30:06 <Zakim> sorry, jon_avila, I do not see a conference named 'wai-wcag' in progress or scheduled at this time
16:30:19 <jon_avila> rrsagent, make draft minutes
16:30:19 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make draft minutes', jon_avila.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
16:30:27 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
16:30:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-wai-wcag-minutes.html MichaelC
16:30:27 <jon_avila> rrsagent, make minutes
16:30:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-wai-wcag-minutes.html jon_avila
16:30:36 <MichaelC> chair: Joshue
16:31:01 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
16:31:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-wai-wcag-minutes.html MichaelC
16:31:40 <jon_avila> present+
16:31:44 <jon_avila> rrsagent, make minutes
16:31:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-wai-wcag-minutes.html jon_avila
16:31:48 <MichaelC> present+ Jon_Avila
16:31:50 <jon_avila> present+jon_avila
16:32:03 <MichaelC> present+ Mike_Elledge
16:32:12 <MichaelC> present+ Joshue
16:32:17 <MichaelC> present+ James_Nurthen
16:32:36 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
16:32:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-wai-wcag-minutes.html MichaelC
16:32:54 <jon_avila> regrets+MoeKraft
16:33:02 <jon_avila> rrsagent, make minutes
16:33:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-wai-wcag-minutes.html jon_avila
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