14:50:14 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-media
14:50:14 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-html-media-irc
14:50:16 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:50:16 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-media
14:50:18 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 63342
14:50:18 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
14:50:19 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference
14:50:19 <trackbot> Date: 07 July 2015
14:50:56 <paulc> present+
14:51:03 <paulc> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Jul/0009.html
14:57:11 <ddorwin> ddorwin has joined #html-media
14:59:42 <paulc> Media TF is now using Webex: https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/Media_Task_Force/Call
15:00:42 <paulc> Each TF participant on the call should enter "present+" so that we have a log of participants.
15:01:06 <davide> davide has joined #html-media
15:01:21 <BobLund> BobLund has joined #html-media
15:01:31 <paulc> Media TF is now using Webex: https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/Media_Task_Force/Call
15:01:49 <paulc> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:01:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-html-media-minutes.html paulc
15:01:52 <ddorwin> present+
15:02:27 <markw> markw has joined #html-media
15:04:12 <paulc> present+ markw
15:04:16 <joesteele> joesteele has joined #html-media
15:04:42 <paulc> present+ joesteele
15:04:51 <joesteele> scribenick: joesteele
15:04:54 <paulc> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Jul/0009.html
15:05:00 <paulc> Chair: paulc
15:05:42 <jdsmith> jdsmith has joined #html-media
15:05:57 <jdsmith> present+
15:07:01 <joesteele> Topic: Open Action Item
15:07:18 <joesteele> s/Action Item/Action Items/
15:07:30 <joesteele> paulc: David you had an open action — you need an extension?
15:07:35 <joesteele> ddorwin: yes - I extended
15:07:38 <paulc> ACTION-86?
15:07:38 <trackbot> ACTION-86 -- David Dorwin to Send an update on bug 27269 -- due 2015-07-31 -- OPEN
15:07:38 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/86
15:07:53 <paulc> ACTION-93?
15:07:53 <trackbot> ACTION-93 -- Paul Cotton to Get in touch with webappsec wg about the "privileged context" which is more generic than saying https, etc." (really on bob lund) -- due 2015-05-26 -- OPEN
15:07:53 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/93
15:08:07 <joesteele> paulc: we had a response yesterday from BobLund
15:08:22 <joesteele> … about the priviledged context
15:08:23 <paulc> See Bob's update in https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Jul/0007.html
15:08:47 <joesteele> topic: Implemented Issues since June 2nd
15:09:00 <joesteele> paulc: there was an update since the agenda
15:09:04 <paulc> Issues 12, 15, 30, 34, 36, 39, 43, 44, 49, 51, 56 and 58 have been implemented
15:09:19 <joesteele> … believe issue 20 and 8 have been updated
15:09:22 <paulc> Issue 20 and issue 8 have also been implemented
15:09:26 <joesteele> jdsmith: yes, implemented
15:09:50 <joesteele> topic: Issues to be implemented
15:10:05 <joesteele> paulc: I created a list to be sure we knew what is blocked
15:10:33 <joesteele> … looks like 17, 10, 9, 8 and 2
15:10:38 <paulc> ISSUE-17 Replace "fire a simple event" with "fire an event" for non-simple Events, Assigned to Jerry
15:10:48 <joesteele> paulc: lets discuss this one
15:10:50 <paulc> https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/17
15:10:57 <joesteele> … Jerry had a question
15:11:06 <paulc> https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/17#issuecomment-119042652
15:11:26 <joesteele> jdsmith: I want to be sure I know what a “complex” event is
15:11:41 <joesteele> … I interepreted to be ones with attributes, not sure how that is different from simple events
15:11:56 <joesteele> … this looks effectively the same
15:12:30 <joesteele> ddorwin: I interpreted this as just being the base interface and not appropo for other events
15:12:48 <joesteele> … would like input from others on whether this is correct
15:13:11 <joesteele> paulc: what do you mean?
15:13:39 <joesteele> ddorwin: if fire an event means fire an “Event” then it is not correct for the other text. This would clean that up
15:13:51 <joesteele> jdsmith: probably need to clarify this more
15:14:08 <paulc> http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/webappapis.html#fire-a-simple-event
15:14:28 <plh> plh has joined #html-media
15:14:42 <joesteele> paulc: I was looking for that text in the spec
15:14:59 <joesteele> s/in the spec/in the webappis spec/
15:15:11 <joesteele> ddorwin: we should find out what a “simple event” is
15:15:15 <plh> Present+ Plh
15:15:20 <joesteele> jdsmith: having trouble finding the example now
15:15:36 <joesteele> paulc: does the text “simple event” occurs elsewhere?
15:15:47 <joesteele> s/occurs elsewhere/occur elsewhere/
15:16:11 <ddorwin> The question is whether "simple event" means exactly "Event" or can include children of Event.
15:16:15 <joesteele> paulc: “simple event” by itself is never defined
15:16:26 <joesteele> ddorwin: that refers to “Event”
15:16:31 <joesteele> … the Event interface
15:17:04 <joesteele> jdsmith: an alternate example under sourcing tracks is step 9
15:17:22 <paulc> Step 9 of http://www.w3.org/TR/html5/embedded-content-0.html#sourcing-in-band-text-tracks
15:18:03 <joesteele> paulc: should we handle offline?
15:18:09 <joesteele> … or discuss more now?
15:18:21 <joesteele> jdsmith: would like some guidance here — what is the right model?
15:18:29 <joesteele> paulc: what are the key questions then?
15:18:35 <joesteele> ddorwin: the one I posted above
15:19:05 <joesteele> … the term “simple event” is from webapp Apis
15:19:12 <ddorwin> s/children of Event/children of Event (with additional members)/
15:19:21 <plh> http://www.w3.org/TR/html51/webappapis.html#fire-a-simple-event
15:19:52 <joesteele> paulc: maybe sending a request to public-html about this would answer it
15:20:15 <joesteele> paulc: there are two issues with no assigned editors 10 and 2
15:20:27 <joesteele> … markw can you take one or both
15:20:49 <joesteele> s/10 and 2/(10 and 2)/
15:20:58 <joesteele> ddorwin: 2 is actually assigned to me
15:21:09 <joesteele> markw: I can take issue-10 then
15:21:41 <joesteele> topic: Initialization Data cluster of issues
15:21:55 <paulc> ISSUE-41 blocks ISSUE-52 and ISSUE-53
15:21:56 <joesteele> paulc: includes issue-41 which blocks 52/53
15:22:05 <joesteele> … been like this for awhile
15:23:00 <joesteele> paulc: you said you would file an additional bug and you did that, no progress since then
15:23:03 <joesteele> q+
15:23:09 <paulc> https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/41#issuecomment-97124407 give status after the Mar F2F meeting
15:24:18 <paulc> present+ plh
15:24:52 <paulc> Joe: ISSUE-52 should be processable
15:24:56 <paulc> Daivd: I disagree
15:25:16 <joesteele> ddorwin: these need to be worked on as a whole and that has not happened yet
15:27:45 <joesteele> ddorwin: we have been focusing on some issues (like secure release) but we need to prioritize
15:28:08 <joesteele> paulc: we have not met for a month, the work done has been stuff already marked as to be done (for a long time)
15:28:17 <joesteele> … we need to make progress on the hard issues
15:29:04 <joesteele> ddorwin: we have been making progress, eg. secure release which is why the others have not been getting attention
15:29:41 <joesteele> paulc: the chair requests Joe to figure out a strategy for this cluster
15:30:02 <joesteele> topic: Event Handler and Message cluster
15:30:14 <joesteele> paulc: issues 19, 14, 31
15:30:29 <joesteele> … looks like 19 needs feedback
15:30:44 <joesteele> https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/19
15:31:15 <joesteele> paulc: can we get a volunteer to give feedback for 19 and 14 to break this cluster
15:31:25 <joesteele> jdsmith: I will do that
15:31:34 <joesteele> paulc: what is your timeline?
15:31:39 <joesteele> jdsmith: shoot for two weeks
15:31:55 <joesteele> topic: Examples cluster
15:32:02 <joesteele> paulc: issues 34 and 10
15:32:24 <joesteele> … maybe these need to just be assigned to an editor
15:32:32 <joesteele> … is there any tehcnical discussion?
15:32:40 <joesteele> markw: 34 is done and I took on 10
15:32:47 <joesteele> paulc: thanks
15:33:16 <joesteele> topic: Issue 63, Pull reuest 66
15:33:32 <paulc> Issue-63: Align normative text on user consent for Distinctive Identifiers with privacy section
15:33:32 <trackbot> Notes added to Issue-63 .
15:33:42 <joesteele> https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/63
15:33:52 <joesteele> https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/pull/66
15:34:24 <joesteele> paulc: you created this 21 days ago — what do we do with this?
15:34:44 <joesteele> ddorwin: I need to review that one — must have missed it. I will take an action
15:35:02 <joesteele> topic: ISSUE-45: Remove "persistent-release-message" MediaKeySessionType
15:35:12 <joesteele> https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/45
15:35:17 <joesteele> https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/45
15:35:25 <joesteele> https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/pull/54
15:35:33 <joesteele> paulc: lot of discussion in this one
15:35:36 <paulc> EME] Netflix's secure release is unreliable without tamper-proof secure persistent storage and/or delayed shutdown
15:35:38 <joesteele> … and a separate email thread
15:35:53 <paulc> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Jun/0021.html
15:35:56 <joesteele> … message 21 in the June archove
15:36:05 <joesteele> paulc: what do we do next here?
15:36:54 <joesteele> ddorwin: working on documenting the key renewal which has been blocking this
15:37:11 <joesteele> jdsmith: that was an alternative David raised in previous discussions
15:37:21 <joesteele> q+
15:37:55 <paulc> ack joe
15:38:07 <joesteele> ddorwin: the issue is very different now than what is being discussed, this is all about secure release
15:39:13 <markw> q+
15:39:22 <paulc> ack markw
15:39:35 <joesteele> joesteele: seems that the core issue is that some platforms may not be able to support this or is very difficult
15:39:55 <joesteele> markw: seems liek that would be a good question to answer even if I disagree about whether it is implementable
15:40:17 <joesteele> … I find it unlikely that there are platforms where the write required is not possible
15:40:38 <joesteele> ddorwin: this is an architectural constraint that this feature places on the spec which is a web of other constraints
15:40:51 <joesteele> … I also think you cannot define that behavior in terms of other core specs
15:41:13 <joesteele> … I think you *can* write this, but the question is whether the web spec should constrain imeplemtations this way
15:41:31 <joesteele> markw: I think this is a web agent arhcitecural issue, not a web architecture issue
15:41:41 <joesteele> … might be missing something and we need to dive deeper
15:42:19 <joesteele> … but I am happy to see the alternatives and see whether they solve all the uses cases, or maybe support both
15:42:26 <joesteele> paulc: more discussion now?
15:42:33 <joesteele> … or wait for davids proposal
15:42:49 <joesteele> +1
15:42:57 <joesteele> ddorwin: ok with me
15:43:18 <joesteele> topic: Issue-22: Add output-restricted MediaKeyStatus
15:43:25 <joesteele> https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/45
15:43:30 <joesteele> https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/pull/65
15:43:45 <joesteele> ddorwin: discussing with Mark now, was a little confused
15:43:55 <joesteele> .. do you want “downscaled” as well now?
15:44:05 <joesteele> s/.. do you/… do you/
15:44:32 <joesteele> markw: could have either prevented or downscaled states, to avoid discarding the high resolution data downloaded
15:44:51 <joesteele> dorwin: was a bit confused about the last line, will re-read now and respond
15:45:13 <joesteele> … will make the proposal more concise and we can move from there
15:45:18 <joesteele> … updating the issue
15:45:46 <joesteele> topic: Next meeting
15:46:02 <joesteele> paulc: suggest we meet on July 21st
15:46:08 <joesteele> jdsmith: ok
15:46:22 <joesteele> … alternating between MSE and EME seems like the way to go
15:46:31 <joesteele> paulc: ok — we are done.
15:46:43 <paulc> rrsagent, generate the minutes
15:46:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-html-media-minutes.html paulc
15:47:13 <joesteele> zakim, who is here?
15:47:13 <Zakim> sorry, joesteele, I don't know what conference this is
15:47:15 <Zakim> On IRC I see plh, jdsmith, joesteele, markw, BobLund, davide, ddorwin, Zakim, RRSAgent, paulc, trackbot, cwilso, adrianba
15:47:38 <joesteele> present + BobLund
15:47:52 <davide> present+ davide
15:47:53 <joesteele> present + adrianba
15:48:05 <joesteele> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:48:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
15:48:32 <joesteele> present + paulc
15:48:46 <joesteele> present + ddorwin
15:48:56 <joesteele> present + cwilso
15:49:07 <joesteele> rrsagent, generate the minutes
15:49:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
15:50:14 <joesteele> s/Issue 63, Pull reuest 66/Issue-63: Align normative text on user consent for Distinctive Identifiers with privacy section/
15:50:23 <joesteele> rrsagent, generate the minutes
15:50:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
15:50:45 <joesteele> s/ISSUE-45:/Issue-45:/
15:50:47 <joesteele> rrsagent, generate the minutes
15:50:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
15:51:43 <davide> davide has left #html-media
15:52:10 <joesteele> s/tehcnical/technical/
15:52:27 <joesteele> s/archove/archive/
15:52:39 <joesteele> s/liek/like/
15:53:20 <joesteele> s/ or is very difficult/ or is very difficult, and whether we should allow such features/
15:53:38 <joesteele> s/imeplemtations/implementations/
15:53:55 <joesteele> s/write this,/write this in the spec,/
15:54:34 <joesteele> s/either prevented or downscaled states/either “op blocked” or “downscaled” states/
15:54:46 <joesteele> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:54:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
15:55:21 <joesteele> s/Initialization Data cluster of issues/Initialization Data cluster/
15:55:29 <joesteele> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:55:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/07-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
15:55:53 <joesteele> Zakim, bye
15:55:53 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-media
15:56:00 <joesteele> rrsagent, bye
15:56:00 <RRSAgent> I see no action items