13:59:31 RRSAgent has joined #tt 13:59:31 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-tt-irc 13:59:33 RRSAgent, make logs public 13:59:33 Zakim has joined #tt 13:59:35 Zakim, this will be TTML 13:59:35 I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot 13:59:36 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 13:59:36 Date: 02 July 2015 14:00:08 zakim, this is TTML 14:00:08 sorry, nigel, I do not see a conference named 'TTML' in progress or scheduled at this time 14:00:34 tmichel has joined #tt 14:01:50 Present: nigel 14:01:52 Chair: nigel 14:01:55 scribe: nigel 14:02:04 pal has joined #tt 14:02:14 present+ pal 14:03:30 atai2 has joined #tt 14:03:38 Present+ atai2 14:04:15 Present+ tmichel 14:04:43 Regrets: glenn, Frans 14:05:31 Topic: This meeting 14:05:45 nigel: pal has asked me for an agenda item on reaching to unicode, so we'll add that. 14:06:01 nigel: Any other Other Business? 14:06:03 group: no 14:06:10 Topic: Action Items 14:06:43 action-406? 14:06:43 action-406 -- Andreas Tai to Follow on creating a strawman re: html cue extension specification -- due 2015-06-25 -- OPEN 14:06:43 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/406 14:07:32 atai2: I've had an informal discussion with Opera and some others here as a result. We discussed last 14:07:48 ... time who will take the lead on creating a strawman proposal to create an HTMLCue extension to 14:08:01 ... take to the HTML WG. One proposal is Opera could do it because they have already done some 14:08:20 work on it. They are happy to help out based on their existing knowledge and internal implementation 14:08:37 ... but they cannot lead it over the next 6 months. I talked to Giuseppe from Opera and he mentioned 14:08:52 ... it would be possibly better to summarise the idea briefly and see how much initial agreement 14:09:10 ... there is from people working on the issue in this group (HTML). I think that would be a good idea, 14:09:29 ... to talk to the browser community about HTMLCue and test the response. Possibly a complete 14:09:41 ... draft is not necessary at this point because it's more a question if the browser vendors are willing 14:09:52 ... to accept this kind of extension. Then after that it would be easier to decide who would take the 14:10:06 ... lead on that. The bigger problem is to convince the relevant groups to implement/support this as 14:10:14 ... an HTML extension. 14:10:57 nigel: That sounds like a reasonable approach. Is the first strawman essentially an abstract? Who can do that? 14:11:15 atai2: I can work on that and circulate it. We should mention also why it is useful to have a generic 14:11:29 ... approach that would allow other formats to be integrated in the HTML browser environment. 14:11:42 ... It's both to show the business case and the technical idea behind it. 14:12:38 nigel: Thanks for volunteering. When would be a good date for the action? 14:12:44 atai2: Possibly 16th July 14:12:48 nigel: I've updated the action. 14:13:00 action-407? 14:13:00 action-407 -- Nigel Megitt to Determine summer schedule -- due 2015-07-02 -- OPEN 14:13:00 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/407 14:14:30 nigel: Have I understood this correctly that it's about scheduling meetings? 14:14:34 tmichel: Yes, that's it. 14:14:51 nigel: I've had a couple of responses. There's one absence on August 20th but apart from that I've 14:15:34 ... had no reason to cancel any meetings. Was there any other concern that lead to this? 14:15:49 tmichel: No, I raised it because some groups schedule a summer break. We can continue to schedule 14:16:03 ... meetings and if it looks like there won't be enough people present then cancel a couple of days 14:16:06 ... beforehand. 14:16:22 nigel: That works for me. I'll leave the action open so people can send me their non-availability. 14:16:31 ... Otherwise we'll continue with weekly meetings as normal. 14:16:44 Action-408? 14:16:44 Action-408 -- Thierry Michel to Coordinate with nigel re: tpac wiki page -- due 2015-07-02 -- OPEN 14:16:44 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/408 14:17:07 nigel: What's behind this one? 14:17:16 tmichel: We currently have a wiki page: 14:17:18 https://www.w3.org/Team/wiki/TPAC/2015 14:18:17 nigel: I can't access that one - is there a TTWG one rather than a Team page? 14:19:11 tmichel: I'll create a page so people from TTWG can fill in their names, when they're coming etc. 14:20:07 Action-408: [meeting 2015-07-02] tmichel to create a TTWG accessible wiki page for TPAC 2015 logistics etc 14:20:07 Notes added to Action-408 Coordinate with nigel re: tpac wiki page. 14:20:36 nigel: Great, you could use the 2014 TPAC page as a basis if you want. 14:20:43 tmichel: Yes, I won't start from scratch! 14:21:18 Topic: Issues 14:21:24 issue-396? 14:21:24 issue-396 -- Invalid codepoints (el) -- raised 14:21:24 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/396 14:21:34 issue-397? 14:21:34 issue-397 -- Sync recommended codepoints with CFF-TT -- raised 14:21:34 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/397 14:22:08 pal: Issue-396 is pretty straightforward: In the character set associated with Greek there's a range, 14:22:22 ... and there are 2 code points that are associated with no Unicode characters. The correction is to 14:22:30 ... remove those invalid Unicode code points from that range. 14:22:50 ... I suspect someone just copied the range not realising that there are two invalid code points in there. 14:22:58 reopen issue-396 14:22:58 Re-opened issue-396. 14:23:34 pal: Issue-397 - I'm not sure it demands immediate action. Based on the text in IMSC 1 that combines 14:24:16 ... the CLDR main and punctuation character sets and the named codes has prompted DECE to update 14:24:30 ... their spec to do the same thing. But that may be overtaken by events if we choose to approach 14:24:46 ... Unicode and recommend that they adopt character sets specifically used in captioning. So I would 14:24:57 ... hold off making any changes here until we've resolved what to do with Unicode. 14:25:16 nigel: Now seems like a good time to come to that point. You have a proposal? 14:25:34 pal: Yes. We've mentioned a couple of times briefly this idea and I thought it would be good to make 14:25:54 ... it concrete. Annex B of IMSC 1 contains recommended character sets for a given language. The idea 14:26:06 ... is that not all clients will implement all Unicode code points. After much discussion where we 14:26:26 ... ended up is combining the characters recommended by DECE, found by studying existing content, 14:26:41 ... with the CLDR character sets published by Unicode, which are those characters in common use for 14:26:58 ... each language. Right now Annex B is this combination of CFF-TT and CLDR. The idea is to take this 14:27:15 ... and submit to Unicode a proposal to add to CLDR character sets specifically for subtitling and captioning 14:27:29 ... applications per language per locale. The reason is that characters used for captioning and subtitling 14:27:45 ... are not necessarily those in common use. For example the musical note is commonly used in 14:27:59 ... subtitling and captioning, as are Latin characters that wouldn't normally be used. So there would 14:28:17 ... be a lot of benefit to adding subtitling and captioning character sets to CLDR, which would have a 14:28:39 ... wider benefit beyond TTWG. I've generated the sets of characters based on Annex B and 14:28:53 ... provided the analysis in an email I sent earlier. The next step would be to approach Unicode and 14:28:59 ... have that discussion. 14:29:16 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2015Jun/0062.html 14:29:35 pal: If you go to the third link in that email http://sandflow.com/public/cldr/imsc-codepoint-table.htm 14:30:10 ... Those sets of characters were generated by applying the algorithm in Annex B of IMSC 1. That's 14:30:19 ... what you end up with for each of the specified locales in IMSC1. 14:30:49 ... To the best of my knowledge these are the characters in common use. It'd be good for the folks 14:30:56 ... at Unicode to take this over and maintain it. 14:32:16 q+ 14:32:23 pal: In fact I've had some conversation before with Unicode. Their feedback was neither ecstatic 14:32:44 ... nor negative. They asked for more details, which I think the table provides. Now IMSC 1 is at a 14:32:58 ... different level of maturity I think it will give them more confidence in starting with this. The person 14:33:54 ... I had been recommended to talk to by plh was ... I'll look up the correct name. 14:33:59 ack atai2 14:34:12 atai2: Yes, that sounds like a good approach and a reasonable activity. I'm wondering if this should 14:34:32 ... be a liaison from TTWG to Unicode to collaborate on such a document or table or list. As you said 14:34:51 ... the person you talked to Pierre was not overly enthusiastic. But if there's a specific liaison letter 14:35:01 ... explaining the use case and offering to collaborate with our group that would be better. 14:35:24 pal: Exactly, my suggestion would be to have a liaison. Mark Davis was the person I talked to. 14:35:41 ... I'm not sure exactly how the liaison would work with Unicode, but I think he would be the right 14:35:57 ... point of contact. The email I sent to the reflector contains the proposed text, if you want to have 14:36:00 ... a look. 14:37:12 go ahead Nigel send it to Richrd. 14:37:35 nigel: Our liaison with Unicode is via Richard Ishida, so I'll check in with him whether this is a good 14:37:40 ... idea and then take it from there. 14:37:57 pal: I'm pretty sure Richard recommended Mark, so he may already be across this, since Shenzhen. 14:38:26 Action: nigel Discuss liaison with Unicode with Richard Ishida 14:38:26 Created ACTION-409 - Discuss liaison with unicode with richard ishida [on Nigel Megitt - due 2015-07-09]. 14:38:47 Action-409: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-tt/2015Jun/0062.html 14:38:47 Notes added to Action-409 Discuss liaison with unicode with richard ishida. 14:39:13 nigel: In the meantime if everyone could review the proposed text that would be great. 14:39:46 reopen issue-397 14:39:46 Re-opened issue-397. 14:40:04 issue-397: [meeting 2015-07-02] Pending potential liaison with Unicode. 14:40:04 Notes added to issue-397 Sync recommended codepoints with CFF-TT. 14:40:35 Topic: TPAC 2015 14:41:03 nigel: As mentioned before, Thierry is going to create a wiki page for us for this. Also, 14:41:17 ... registration is now open - see http://www.w3.org/2015/10/TPAC/ and follow the links. 14:43:23 nigel: I recommend people look sooner rather than later as the accommodation situation is somewhat 14:43:32 ... more complex this year than it sometimes is. 14:43:57 ... We'll need to open up for agenda items too - no immediate urgency on that. 14:44:14 Topic: IMSC CR2, Test Suite and Implementation Report 14:44:33 nigel: We've issues a Call for Implementation, right? 14:44:35 pal: Yes 14:45:03 tmichel: Yes. Pierre sent me last week a first set of implementors so I've sent an email to them, 14:45:17 ... calling for implementation. We had agreed on this email with Pierre and Nigel added a few things. 14:45:36 ... It links to the WBS questionnaire that asks the implementor to respond. I will be collecting these 14:45:55 ... answers to build the Implementation Report. This will be the source. Also I will merge any emails 14:46:59 ... sent to me with text answers. I plan to do the final merge in September once we have enough 14:47:09 ... answers. Of course if we have 10 answers in August I will do it sooner. 14:47:32 nigel: Do we think we have the complete set now or will there be more? 14:47:49 pal: I'm working with some other folks and continuing to generate more possible implementor names. 14:48:03 tmichel: And we know that Glenn has a client who has asked him to do some IMSC implementation. 14:48:25 action-387? 14:48:25 action-387 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Collate list of potential implementors of imsc 1. -- due 2015-04-17 -- OPEN 14:48:25 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/387 14:48:45 action-387: [meeting 2015-07-02] Some names already provided and contacted, work ongoing on this action. 14:48:45 Notes added to action-387 Collate list of potential implementors of imsc 1.. 14:50:13 nigel: I've updated the date on the action for 2 weeks from now, as suggested by pal. 14:50:41 Topic: WebVTT review feedback 14:50:58 action-396? 14:50:58 action-396 -- David Singer to Produce evidence of request for wide review for webvtt, for the archive -- due 2015-04-17 -- OPEN 14:50:58 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/396 14:51:17 tmichel: I've sent an email to Sylvia and David asking them for the status in processing the comments 14:51:33 ... from the W3C groups at list. Silvia reported and sent a link to the bug tracker. They've resolved 14:51:49 ... about 13 comments out of about 30, so it's on its way but they're not done yet. This triggers 14:52:11 ... another question for publishing a new WD including the resolutions into the spec, highlighting 14:52:55 ... them with some CSS markup. I believe David agreed to do that and then send the responses to 14:52:57 ... the commenter. 14:53:08 nigel: Normal way to approach dispositions? 14:53:16 tmichel: No, it's a way to propose the changes in the spec. 14:54:11 nigel: My understanding was a little different, that all the comments would be added either as 14:54:31 ... resolutions or as "we're working on this" markers in the spec, and when that's ready to come to 14:54:43 ... the WG with a request to publish a new snapshot as a WD. 14:55:15 tmichel: I think plh wanted to show some activity on the spec since it's a long time since the most 14:55:18 ... recent WD. 14:55:35 ... Where I'm unclear is who is going to request to the commenter if they're happy or not. I think it 14:55:43 ... should be the WG not the CG. 14:56:07 pal: I'm confused by why we're not following the same process as last time. 14:56:20 nigel: I think it's the same process fundamentally but using different tools. 14:57:11 pal: Last time we reviewed every comment prior to republishing. 14:57:26 nigel: I think we still need to do that, we just haven't got there yet. We definitely need to review in 14:57:39 ... the WG the proposed resolutions as part of the approval for publishing a new WD. 14:58:23 tmichel: My question is who is going to do the follow-up to check with commenters if they're happy? 14:58:46 nigel: I think that's down to David. I don't think it matters if the commenter comments on something 14:59:03 ... proposed by the CG or the WG - where it comes from isn't important, just if the commenter is 14:59:06 ... actually happy with it. 14:59:10 tmichel: I agree. 14:59:33 action-396: [Meeting 2015-07-02] Noted that this is ongoing. 14:59:33 Notes added to action-396 Produce evidence of request for wide review for webvtt, for the archive. 15:00:16 Topic: AOB 15:00:32 tmichel: For coming weeks please could you add to the agenda a review of the TTML2 milestones? 15:00:36 nigel: Okay. 15:00:51 tmichel: I looked with plh and we noted that we had planned to be in CR by now. 15:02:40 nigel: Thanks everyone. I'll adjourn now - meet again same time next week. [Adjourns meeting] 15:03:39 s/Sylvia/Silvia 15:03:49 rrsagent, make logs public 15:03:52 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:03:52 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:05:37 s/work on it/... work on it 15:05:50 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:05:50 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:09:47 s/We've issues a/We've issued a 15:12:23 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:12:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-tt-minutes.html nigel 15:12:50 ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 15:12:51 rrsagent, generate minutes 15:12:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:20:22 chocolate-elvis has joined #tt 16:23:45 chocolate-elvis has joined #tt 16:48:07 Zakim has left #tt