14:57:49 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
14:57:49 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-html-a11y-irc
14:57:51 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:57:51 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-a11y
14:57:53 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
14:57:53 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
14:57:54 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:57:54 <trackbot> Date: 02 July 2015
14:58:01 <janina> present+ janina
14:58:08 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #html-a11y
15:00:48 <paulc> paulc has joined #html-a11y
15:00:49 <richardschwerdtfeger> Present+ Rich
15:01:03 <paulc> waves
15:01:12 <JF> JF has joined #html-a11y
15:01:13 <chaals> s/waves//
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15:01:25 <LJWatson> present+ LJWatson
15:01:31 <janina> scribe: janina
15:01:47 <JF> present+ JF
15:02:01 <chaals> chair: Chaals
15:02:02 <chaals> agenda+ any other items for the agenda?
15:02:02 <chaals> agenda+ transcript: <http://chaals.github.io/html-transcript/html-transcript-src.html> CfC resolution <https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2015Jun/0089.html>
15:02:02 <chaals> agenda+ are we on track for canvas
15:02:03 <chaals> agenda+ Web Components
15:02:03 <chaals> agenda+ Action item review: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open
15:02:38 <liam> present+ Liam_Quin
15:02:53 <chaals> agenda+ face to face meeting
15:03:56 <paulc> present+ paulc
15:04:05 <chaals> present+ Joanie
15:04:21 <chaals> zakim, drop agendum 1
15:04:21 <Zakim> agendum 1, any other items for the agenda?, dropped
15:05:31 <chaals> zakim, next item
15:05:31 <Zakim> agendum 2. "transcript: <http://chaals.github.io/html-transcript/html-transcript-src.html> CfC resolution <https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2015Jun/0089.html>"
15:05:35 <Zakim> ... taken up [from chaals]
15:06:07 <janina> cn: We are taking up the doc -- Result of our CfC
15:06:28 <janina> cn: We'll set up on W3C github
15:06:44 <janina> cn: However, prefer to use W3C Issue Tracker
15:07:06 <JF> +1 to W3C Tracker
15:07:31 <janina> cn: Any objection to the above?
15:07:34 <janina> [crickets]
15:07:42 <richardschwerdtfeger> +1
15:08:08 <JF> +1 to the working proposal
15:08:18 <janina> cn: Next issue -- How to move forward
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15:09:00 <janina> cn: Concerns include properly encapsulated ... building on Joanie's Longdesc
15:09:22 <janina> cn: We have 5 alternatives on linking right now in order to see available options
15:09:30 <janina> cn: We're not takingall to rec, of course
15:09:35 <janina> cn: Somehow, we get to 1
15:10:04 <janina> cn: We propose to published an FPWD with all 5, but clearly document that at least 4 are expected to go away by rec time
15:10:24 <janina> cn: One reason for early FPWD is to start the RAND exclusion clock
15:10:42 <chaals> s/RAND/patent/
15:10:57 <JF> Q+
15:11:03 <janina> cn: Also, a formal draft -- the FPWD -- arguably gets better review
15:11:05 <chaals> ack jf
15:11:20 <janina> jf: How weill we narrow 5 down to 1?
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15:11:41 <janina> cn: We'll look for agreement to implement
15:11:53 <janina> cn: That will influence what stays, clearly
15:12:07 <janina> cn: Next we would look at objections and their rationales
15:12:31 <janina> cn: Then we ask the HTML WG (or perhaps by then Web Apps) what draws least objections
15:12:45 <janina> cn: If nothing implemented, then we can't go further, of course
15:13:06 <janina> cn: Perhaps code in content, or perhaps in browser ...
15:13:36 <janina> cn: If we have multiple options implemented, we ask preference
15:13:51 <paulc> q+
15:13:56 <chaals> ack pa
15:14:10 <janina> pc: How to you propose to ask implementers that question?
15:14:20 <janina> cn: Will propose to the HTML-WG directly
15:14:43 <janina> cn: We'll take it directly to the Media TF
15:15:09 <janina> cn: Key is sufficient feedback from enough implementors
15:15:17 <JF> Q+
15:15:42 <chaals> ack jf
15:16:13 <janina> jf: It was my impression that Media TF F2F in April gave us a general direction consensus
15:16:45 <janina> jf: There was fine tuning to do, but the basics were agreed, I believe
15:17:05 <janina> cn: Yes, a consensus on a particular direction, but it had two posibilities still
15:17:11 <janina> cn: Both are in this doc
15:17:46 <janina> cn: For completeness, per advice of the Media TF Chair, we've also looked at other suggestions previously made and added those as well
15:18:22 <janina> cn: I expect people will gravitate to one of the two discussed in TF F2F
15:18:56 <janina> cn: Difference today is we have a doc that shows what the spec looks like laid out in candidate form
15:19:19 <janina> cn: I expect this cycle just once--but that depends on getting implementations
15:19:58 <paulc> q+
15:20:02 <janina> cn: Is there objection here toward going to FPWD with multiple approaches listed?
15:20:15 <janina> jf: Feels a bit wierd process
15:20:20 <chaals> ack pa
15:20:28 <janina> pc: Agreed
15:20:33 <janina> q+
15:20:43 <janina> pc: Can't recall this approach previously
15:20:56 <chaals> q+
15:20:57 <janina> pc: I'm trying to think if anything wrong with this approach
15:21:24 <chaals> q+ to explain who would be upset and how…
15:21:26 <janina> pc: Can't think of an example of this approach previously, but seems possibly the best plan -- just unusual
15:21:27 <chaals> ack ja
15:21:44 <chaals> JS: only other way I see to go is have 5 alternative documents which seems excessive.
15:21:53 <chaals> ack me
15:21:53 <Zakim> chaals, you wanted to explain who would be upset and how…
15:21:56 <JF> Q+
15:22:20 <janina> cn: Not sure about precedent -- Certainly docs have changed as work continues
15:22:32 <janina> cn: Patent search folks would be most annoyed, probably
15:23:22 <janina> cn: Perhaps we get that kind of objection -- then we're figuring out what to do with the objection
15:24:17 <janina> cn: It's possible we publish, then near end of patent disclosure period we get exclusions, and we're looking at how to proceed
15:24:22 <janina> cn: Believe that's low probability
15:25:17 <paulc> q+
15:25:23 <chaals> ack jf
15:25:31 <janina> cn: It would be far less efficient to start on one option, get someway down the road, then have pushback that sends us to another option ...
15:26:04 <janina> jf: Think this doc is a combo of three separate approaches in wiki
15:26:54 <janina> cn: One clear way we have progress is that some ideas suggested in the F2F are now demonstrably problematic, because we have this spec
15:27:03 <janina> cn: That's valuable
15:27:32 <janina> cn: Out of F2F src and track seemed equal, but no longer
15:27:35 <paulc> I suggest we explicitly ask the W3C team if publishing a FPWD with multiple choices of approaches is appropriate.  I would rather "ask for permission" than "ask for forgiveness".
15:27:42 <chaals> ack pau
15:28:00 <chaals> ack li
15:28:00 <janina> pc: I suspect we should ask permission rather than chance forgivness on this approach. I expect we'd get permission, but should ask
15:28:03 <chaals> q+
15:28:26 <janina> lq: Reason for WD is we haven't decided on a final approach
15:28:27 <chaals> q+ to say "yes we will (have to" get permission
15:28:38 <chaals> ack me
15:28:38 <Zakim> chaals, you wanted to say "yes we will (have to" get permission
15:28:43 <janina> lq: Almost any WD that's short of LC has issues
15:29:05 <janina> cn: We have to get permission to go FPWD. So, we will explicitly ask
15:29:17 <chaals> zakim, close this item
15:29:17 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
15:29:18 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:29:18 <Zakim> 3. are we on track for canvas [from chaals]
15:29:41 <janina> rs: Mark not here, nor on line at the moment
15:29:46 <janina> rs: We don't know any progress
15:30:24 <chaals> zakim, close this item
15:30:24 <Zakim> I do not know what agendum had been taken up, chaals
15:30:29 <chaals> zakim, close item 4
15:30:29 <Zakim> agendum 4, Web Components, closed
15:30:30 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:30:30 <Zakim> 3. are we on track for canvas [from chaals]
15:30:39 <chaals> zakim, close item 3
15:30:39 <Zakim> agendum 3, are we on track for canvas, closed
15:30:40 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:30:40 <Zakim> 5. Action item review: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open [from chaals]
15:30:51 <chaals> Topic: Web Components
15:31:08 <janina> cn: Please see email on list about this
15:32:16 <janina> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2015Jul/0000.html
15:32:49 <janina> cn: Some of what we want to do, e.g. date picker, is unclear whether this approach suffices
15:33:03 <janina> cn: So we need use cases and more info -- examples
15:33:18 <janina> cn: This also applies to tab panels
15:33:34 <janina> cn: We need better coverage of the kinds of things we might extend
15:33:45 <LJWatson> Panel prototypes using Web Components: http://bkardell.github.io/common-panel/prototype/panelset-element.html
15:34:18 <chaals> zakim, close this item
15:34:18 <Zakim> I do not know what agendum had been taken up, chaals
15:34:45 <janina> cn: Seems will be quite small
15:34:46 <chaals> i/rs: Mark not here, nor on line at the moment/Topic: Canvas - are we there yet/
15:35:02 <janina> cn: Register immediately, please!
15:35:24 <janina> cn: Accomodations need -- talk to me by Friday AM
15:35:55 <janina> cn: Expect to do a deal of work on the above
15:36:11 <janina> cn: If dialin, please advise
15:36:15 <janina> janina: Yes, please
15:36:33 <chaals> i/cn: Seems will/Topic: face to face/
15:36:38 <chaals> zakim, agenda?
15:36:38 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
15:36:39 <Zakim> 5. Action item review: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open [from chaals]
15:36:39 <Zakim> 6. face to face meeting [from chaals]
15:36:45 <chaals> zakim, next item
15:36:45 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Action item review: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/open" taken up [from chaals]
15:37:15 <chaals> action-317?
15:37:15 <trackbot> action-317 -- Charles McCathie Nevile to Look at the mse and spliced advertising cases in particular 05/01/2015 -- due 2015-07-02 -- OPEN
15:37:15 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/track/actions/317
15:37:36 <janina> cn: Expect to do this during the F2F
15:37:54 <chaals> action-317 due in 8 days
15:37:54 <trackbot> Set action-317 Look at the mse and spliced advertising cases in particular 05/01/2015 due date to 2015-07-10.
15:39:52 <chaals> q?
15:39:52 <janina> cn: Other items?
15:40:04 <janina> Adjournment
15:40:08 <janina> zakim, bye
15:40:08 <Zakim> Zakim has left #html-a11y
15:40:13 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
15:40:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/07/02-html-a11y-minutes.html janina
15:46:24 <liam> chaals, still there? do you need a webex teleconference for the f2f? or are you going to use your "Personal Room"?
15:48:50 <liam> i can set one up right now if you have 5 minutes (I think)
15:49:16 <liam> or, if you still have webex open, you should be able to do it I think
15:49:35 <liam> (which is better because only the person who sets up a call can make changes to it)