18:44:45 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
18:44:45 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/06/30-aapi-irc
18:44:47 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
18:44:47 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aapi
18:44:49 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
18:44:49 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM scheduled to start in 16 minutes
18:44:50 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
18:44:50 <trackbot> Date: 30 June 2015
18:45:03 <clown> chair: Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:45:14 <clown> agenda: this
18:45:24 <clown> agenda+ Bugzilla-28816 (All)  Some ARIA roles lacking explicit a11y API role mappings.
18:45:29 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1541: (James) AXAPI mapping for aria-modal.
18:45:35 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1535: (James) AXAPI mapping for aria-current.
18:45:42 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1608: (Cynthia) Bring up issue-708 with html-a11y taskforce (conditions for inclusion within a11y tree).
18:45:52 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1660/ISSUE-714 (Joanie) ATK/AT-SPI mapping of aria-roledescription.
18:45:57 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1661/ISSUE-714 (Cynthia) UIA mapping of aria-roledescription (UIA Express?)
18:46:03 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1662/ISSUE-714 (Alex) IA2 mapping of aria-roledescription.
18:46:12 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1622: (Alex) MSAA+IA2 mapping of aria-placeholder.
18:46:18 <clown> agenda+ Action/issue triage (https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23)
18:46:25 <clown> agenda+ be done.
18:46:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/30-aapi-minutes.html clown
18:55:51 <clown> present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer
18:58:18 <joanie> present+ Joanmarie_Diggs
19:13:58 <clown> issue=-708?
19:14:04 <clown> issue-708?
19:14:04 <trackbot> issue-708 -- The phrase "If not already excluded from the accessibility tree per the rules above" implies that the listed conditions do not override. Is that correct? -- open
19:14:04 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/708
19:20:53 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #aapi
19:23:34 <joanie> scribe: joanie
19:23:39 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 1
19:23:39 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Bugzilla-28816 (All)  Some ARIA roles lacking explicit a11y API role mappings." taken up [from clown]
19:23:48 <clown> https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=28816
19:23:53 <joanie> JS: This is a bug that Jason Kiss raised a while ago.
19:24:26 <joanie> JS: Summary: He's noting that certain roles (banner, navigation, complementary, contentinfo, article and form) don't have any role information in the core mapping spec.
19:24:43 <joanie> JS: I replied and said that information is in the xml-roles object attribute.
19:24:53 <joanie> JS: To which he said we should give them a real role.
19:25:08 <joanie> JS: Then I thought, how does an AT know to look at the object attribute?
19:25:19 <joanie> RS: They look at role="region".
19:25:42 <joanie> RS: Landmark is abstract, so what you'd need to do is use role="region". Then they'd look for more information.
19:25:55 <joanie> JS: I did have a conversation with Joanie about this.
19:27:05 <joanie> JD: Orca only looks at xml-roles when it "has to."
19:27:18 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-banner
19:27:41 <joanie> JS: It turns out ATK/AT-SPI2 already handles all of these cases.
19:27:51 <joanie> JS: I put the URL in the room (above)
19:28:40 <joanie> RS: Looking at banner... What does AT-SPI2? ROLE_LANDMARK.
19:28:55 <joanie> JS: So Orca sees it's a landmark and then looks at the object attributes to see which one.
19:29:17 <joanie> JS: For UIA Cynthia said to expose role grouping with a localized role name.
19:29:42 <joanie> JS: I predict that in IA2, the role you get is based on the tag you use.
19:30:24 <joanie> RS: We could add a ROLE_LANDMARK for IA2.
19:31:20 <joanie> RS: (Tries test case in Firefox)
19:31:58 <clown> s/localized role name/localized control type matching the AriaRole/
19:37:06 <joanie> BG: What if you put a role="banner" on an iframe?
19:37:17 <joanie> (Group ponders)
19:37:25 <joanie> (Scribe shudders)
19:38:32 <joanie> RS: AccRole is banner.
19:38:58 <joanie> JS: In MSAA there is an AccRole field for accessible role. It's a string.
19:39:17 <joanie> JS: According to the MSAA documentation, only known MSAA roles should go in that value.
19:39:34 <joanie> JS: But Gecko puts "banner" as the value for AccRole.
19:39:57 <joanie> RS: The accessible role is section for an actual section. For div it's also a section. For paragraph, it's a role of paragraph.
19:40:07 <joanie> JS: What is the IA2 role?
19:40:21 <joanie> RS: The AccRole in all those cases is banner.
19:40:33 <joanie> RS: The IA2 roles are as I described earlier.
19:41:14 <joanie> RS: And the xml-roles object attribute has banner.
19:41:23 <joanie> RS: Do we want to create an IA2 role of landmark?
19:41:34 <joanie> JS: Yes, but will it get done in the 1.1 time frame?
19:41:44 <joanie> RS: It's a constant.
19:42:12 <joanie> RS: I think it's an enum. Let me look.
19:43:06 <joanie> RS: We could add a ROLE_LANDMARK at the end.
19:43:09 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://accessibility.linuxfoundation.org/a11yspecs/ia2/docs/html/_accessible_role_8idl.html#ae37ff81431ee3762a5d41a2cb909108d
19:43:20 <joanie> RS: The URL above is the documentation for IA2 roles.
19:44:34 <joanie> RS: I'm looking at the mappings to see how we can do this consistently.
19:45:11 <clown> Cynthia says:  "For UIA, these should be mapped to the group control type with a localized control type that matches the aria role."
19:48:18 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-region
19:49:08 <joanie> JS: (Reads the mapping of region)
19:49:40 <joanie> JD: Given that as Bryan and Rich stated, a named region is a landmark, we probably want to update the mapping Joseph just read.
19:49:51 <clown> http://w3c.github.io/aria/aria/aria.html#region
19:49:55 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#region
19:50:34 <joanie> RS: I think there should be an action here to map region to landmark and then get Alex to add a ROLE_LANDMARK to IA2.
19:50:52 <joanie> RS: Let's give Alex an action to add that to IA2.
19:51:00 <joanie> JS: But that's not a W3C issue.
19:51:35 <joanie> JS: That takes care of landmark, but there are other roles that Jason pointed out, like article.
19:51:52 <joanie> JS: Article and form lack UIA roles.
19:52:15 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-article
19:52:38 <clown> see the UIA entry.  All it says is, "Expose as text string in AriaRole".
19:53:41 <clown> action:  Joseph to update the mapping spec for aria role region to reflect its landmark inheritance as defined in the aria 1.1 spec.
19:53:42 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1667 - Update the mapping spec for aria role region to reflect its landmark inheritance as defined in the aria 1.1 spec. [on Joseph Scheuhammer - due 2015-07-07].
19:54:07 <clown> action-1667?
19:54:07 <trackbot> action-1667 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Update the mapping spec for aria role region to reflect its landmark inheritance as defined in the aria 1.1 spec. -- due 2015-07-07 -- OPEN
19:54:07 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1667
19:54:17 <joanie> (Group discusses some IE issues)
19:54:50 <joanie> JS: I've given myself an action to do something about role region with respect to its landmark status.
19:56:01 <richardschwerdtfeger> Action: Action Add a IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK to IA2. This will tell ATS to look at the xml-roles value for landmarks
19:56:01 <trackbot> Error finding 'Action'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/users>.
19:56:26 <richardschwerdtfeger> Action: Alex Add a IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK to IA2. This will tell ATS to look at the xml-roles value for landmarks
19:56:26 <trackbot> Error finding 'Alex'. You can review and register nicknames at <https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/users>.
19:56:38 <richardschwerdtfeger> Action: Surkov Add a IA2_ROLE_LANDMARK to IA2. This will tell ATS to look at the xml-roles value for landmarks
19:56:38 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1668 - Add a ia2_role_landmark to ia2. this will tell ats to look at the xml-roles value for landmarks [on Alexander Surkov - due 2015-07-07].
19:56:58 <clown> action-1668?
19:56:58 <trackbot> action-1668 -- Alexander Surkov to Add a ia2_role_landmark to ia2. this will tell ats to look at the xml-roles value for landmarks -- due 2015-07-07 -- OPEN
19:56:58 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1668
19:57:39 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-article
19:57:44 <joanie> JS: The issue about article and form are just UIA questions.
19:57:58 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-form
19:58:02 <joanie> JS: Links above are for the mappings.
19:58:25 <joanie> JS: How do you know it's a form? How do you know to go look at the string?
20:02:34 <joanie> present+ Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Bryan_Garaventa
20:03:01 <joanie> regrets: Cynthia_Shelly
20:03:07 <joanie> Zakim, part
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20:03:13 <joanie> RRSAgent, stop