15:02:28 RRSAgent has joined #hcls 15:02:28 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/06/23-hcls-irc 15:02:30 RRSAgent, make logs world 15:02:30 Zakim has joined #hcls 15:02:32 Zakim, this will be HCLS 15:02:32 ok, trackbot; I see SW_HCLS()11:00AM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago 15:02:33 Meeting: Semantic Web Health Care and Life Sciences Interest Group Teleconference 15:02:33 Date: 23 June 2015 15:03:58 Lloyd has joined #HCLS 15:05:04 SW_HCLS()11:00AM has now started 15:05:11 + +1.604.250.aaaa 15:06:16 - +1.604.250.aaaa 15:06:17 SW_HCLS()11:00AM has ended 15:06:17 Attendees were +1.604.250.aaaa 15:06:24 SW_HCLS()11:00AM has now started 15:06:31 +DavidB 15:06:40 -DavidB 15:06:42 SW_HCLS()11:00AM has ended 15:06:42 Attendees were DavidB 15:06:48 egonw__ has joined #HCLS 15:07:00 SW_HCLS()11:00AM has now started 15:07:08 + +31.62.427.aaaa 15:07:29 scribenick: ericP 15:07:33 - +31.62.427.aaaa 15:07:35 SW_HCLS()11:00AM has ended 15:07:35 Attendees were +31.62.427.aaaa 15:07:39 SW_HCLS()11:00AM has now started 15:07:46 +DavidB 15:08:03 -DavidB 15:08:05 SW_HCLS()11:00AM has ended 15:08:05 Attendees were DavidB 15:08:32 Topic: HL7 Project Scope Statement (PSS) for computable semantic links from FHIR to RIM 15:08:40 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-semweb-lifesci/2015Jun/0027.html 15:08:58 The PSS: http://gforge.hl7.org/gf/project/arb_fhir_rim/scmsvn/?action=browse&path=%2F%2Acheckout%2A%2Ftrunk%2FArB-computable%2520semantic%2520links%2520from%2520FHIR%2520-PSS.docx 15:10:02 dbooth: per Charlie Mead: we should: 15:10:57 rhausam has joined #HCLS 15:11:15 ... .. take a well-written text-based description of a link from a FHIR-spec/profile and map it to RDF. 15:11:32 ... .. validate using RDF defn's of the O-RIM 15:11:52 ... .. want to show how sem techs can aid this 15:12:18 ... .. we want to demo cross-spec consistency, but we should start with pharmacy 15:13:00 Lloyd: and the intention is that we update all FHIR/RIM mappings for FHIR 2.1 15:13:28 ... it's fine to lead with pharmacy, but we need to make this part of FHIR governance 15:14:26 paul: we just need to define the scripting 15:14:39 Tony: is this an ITC scope? 15:14:58 s/ITC/ITS/ 15:14:58 q+ to ask what these mappings would look like? How would they be written? 15:15:23 Lloyd: this isn't really about the representation of information, but ITS has expertise in this space 15:15:35 ... i'd expect it to be a joint project with M&M 15:15:56 Tony: so it's not the mapping of current FHIR into RDF 15:16:41 Lloyd: it's been proposed to ARB but I'd like to move it out because it's not really architecture 15:17:10 paul: ARB started it because they felt it was important 15:18:36 Lloyd: I'd like FHIR/infrastructure to own the project, cosponsored by M&M and ITS 15:18:40 ack dbooth 15:18:40 dbooth, you wanted to ask what these mappings would look like? How would they be written? 15:18:56 dbooth: what would these look like? 15:19:06 Lloyd: there are two potential mappings: 15:19:58 ... .. structural elements (class code, mood code, negation indicator). not fussing with code. 15:20:05 mscottm has joined #hcls 15:20:52 ... .. when defining the semantics of a resource, we can say that AllergyIntollerance corresponds to OBS EVT 15:21:08 ... capturing that it's related to an allergy is harder 15:21:22 ... i think it's reasonable to map at the resource property level as well 15:21:50 Lloyd: ideally expressed in RDF, if we can make it comprehensible to the WGs 15:22:17 q+ to talk about shex stuff (as usual) 15:22:24 ack ericp 15:22:24 ericP, you wanted to talk about shex stuff (as usual) 15:22:31 dbooth: so this is an ontology mapping exercise 15:22:57 eric: I've been working w Claude on this front. 15:23:41 ... If we have detailed clinical models that clinicians care about, we want an ont that is intuitive to clinicians, they way they would phrase questions or rules. 15:24:01 ... If we have a mapping between these logical clinical models and FHIR, e.g., BP in FHIR will look a certain way. 15:24:09 ... It will look another way in RIM. 15:25:10 ... If we're thinking about the part of the mapping that is computationally useful for people who are trying to work with this data, because they're trying to map data from one form to another, or mapping defs from one form to another, there's a pattern of observations, pattern of things that happened 15:25:33 ... Those are the two places where people will care the most about the mappings. 15:25:50 ... The semantics of RIM are mostly ACTS and ACT relatinoships. 15:26:48 ... FHIR is more along the lines of body site, and diagnosis. So we have an opportunity to map between FHIR and RIM, or we could map between FHIR and QUICK or CIMI. 15:27:16 ... I'm trying to figure out the degree to which the work I'm doing with Claude would apply here. 15:27:37 lloyd: The objective here is not converting instances -- slim to no hope of doing that. 15:28:05 ... The purpose here is to bind semantics, doing it legitimately, and better understanding FHIR and validating FHIR, because FHIR 15:28:17 ... FHIR resources are being created by a lot of groups. 15:28:57 ... (validation) 15:29:37 ... Quality checking. Mappings of likely instances would be in the CDA and CCDA to FHIR process. 15:29:50 ... Not likely elsewhere. 15:30:07 ... Likelihood of v3 messaging to FHIR is uncommon. 15:30:59 ... So the driver of this work is to better understand the FHIR models -- not instance conversion. 15:31:56 -> http://www.w3.org/wiki/HCLS/ClinicalObservationsInteroperability/C-CDA#Mapping_to_FHIR mapping C-CDA to FHIR 15:32:04 ... A huge number of people will want to convert CCDA to FHIR, but few of them would understand. 15:32:30 ... So primary conversion process would be that. 15:33:39 Lloyd: conversion of CDA to FHIR using a jar or an XSLT is reasonable for implementors to understand 15:34:00 ... Con version of CCDA to FHIR using a java jar, or XSLT, are reasonable tech for people to use. Whereas RDF would involve three levels of transformation (CCDA, RDF, XML) 15:34:00 paul: the mapping is for testing completeness 15:34:31 ... also serves as a testing langauge, which e.g. jars and XSLT can test against 15:35:06 dbooth: we expect that factoring out format translations from semantic translations will be beneficial, but that remains to be proven 15:38:03 paul: the content of this project scope will be useful no matter what group sponsors it 15:39:32 dbooth: i haven't seen confirmation from cecil that he can take on the roles of project and vocabulary facilitator 15:39:58 Lloyd: i think this is because it's from the ARB. i'd expect graham 15:40:36 paul: why don't we add what [who] we'd propose 15:44:29 ACTION: David to check with Grahame about being project facilitator on PSS 15:44:29 'David' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., dbooth, dderour, dhansen2, dnewman, dshotton). 15:45:56 Lloyd: there are several resources that won't map to rim: 15:46:03 ... .. value set 15:46:08 ... .. conformance 15:46:14 ... .. structure definition 15:46:33 ... .. some extensions 15:53:31 q+ to ask why the RIM/ITS mapping isn't sufficient 15:55:18 ack ericp 15:55:18 ericP, you wanted to ask why the RIM/ITS mapping isn't sufficient 15:55:47 eric: Why were RIM ITS mappings not sufficient? 15:56:50 ... Eric a FHIR status, e.g., is quite complex. Are we expecting to do better than the XPATH that lloyd used to navigate RIM ITS? 15:57:12 paul: RIM ITS isn't in here. 15:57:45 ... Better to view it as a rootless graph of the RIM 15:58:12 rhausam has joined #HCLS 15:58:42 eric: I understood them to be RIM ITS mapping, in that the names of the path you're traversing are the elements defined by the RIM ITS 15:59:18 ... Want to be sure that we don't overmarket. 15:59:44 ... Want to have a reasonable chance of satisfying this goal. Need to understand the alternatives, and why one that was started is not continuing. 15:59:58 paul: the initial goal was to put together some kind of mapping back to the RIM. 16:00:18 ... Decided in an eveningn to use XPATH, and started that way. 16:00:47 ... Different groups have different levels of understanding, but we don't have a way of computing them, or verifying whtehr they point to nowhere or whether they overlap. 16:01:22 ... The hope is that by doing them in RDF there may be utilities that would allow us to check that a thing is pointing to a thing, and we can check for duplicates. 16:03:47 paul: whether we sit with pharmacists and explain RDF or XPath or whatever, it will be obscure 16:04:19 ... the pharmacy WG has been maintaining their "text links". 16:06:42 ... we can use the success of the pharmacy mappings to evaluate and market the approach 16:18:01 lost my connection 16:23:10 ACTION: David to send back the revised PSS and ask whether Jan 2016 end date is realistic 16:23:10 'David' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., dbooth, dderour, dhansen2, dnewman, dshotton). 16:23:22 ADJOURNED 16:23:32 Chair: David Booth and Paul Knapp 16:40:07 s/Con version/Conversion/ 16:40:20 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:40:20 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/23-hcls-minutes.html dbooth 16:41:45 Present: Vassil Peytchev, David Booth, Brian Pech, Claude Nanjo, EricP, Lloyd McKenzie, M. Scott Marshall, Paul Knapp, Rob Hausam, Tony Mallia, Trebba Putnam, Rafael Richards 16:41:48 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:41:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/23-hcls-minutes.html dbooth 18:10:39 Zakim has left #hcls