16:57:47 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #social
16:57:47 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/06/16-social-irc
16:57:49 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:57:49 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #social
16:57:51 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SOCL
16:57:51 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
16:57:52 <trackbot> Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
16:57:52 <trackbot> Date: 16 June 2015
16:58:51 <KevinMarks> we don't parse lang explicitly in mf2 parsing at the moment
16:59:17 <cwebber2> cwebber2 has joined #social
16:59:27 <cwebber2> hello everyon
16:59:29 <KevinMarks> http://climbtothestars.org/ is a good example of a bilingual blog marked up with lang
16:59:30 <cwebber2> everyone
17:00:26 <Arnaud> zakim, this is socl
17:00:26 <Zakim> ok, Arnaud; that matches T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM
17:00:35 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
17:00:35 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, Arnaud, aaronpk, Ann
17:00:56 <Zakim> + +1.773.614.aaaa
17:01:02 <Zakim> +??P5
17:01:11 <cwebber2> hi
17:01:11 <Zakim> + +1.401.305.aabb
17:01:14 <ben_thatmustbeme> Zakim, aabb is me
17:01:14 <Zakim> +ben_thatmustbeme; got it
17:01:19 <ben_thatmustbeme> Zakim, mute me
17:01:19 <Zakim> ben_thatmustbeme should now be muted
17:01:20 <cwebber2> Zakim, aaaa is me
17:01:21 <Zakim> +cwebber2; got it
17:01:27 <cwebber2> hopefully my connection holds up
17:01:32 <cwebber2> connectivity around here is... spotty :)
17:01:55 <AnnB> are you some place exotic?
17:01:56 <ben_thatmustbeme> same here cwebber2, but its more of an issue of my cell phone has been behaving really oddly lately
17:02:32 <cwebber2> btw tsyesika is not on this call
17:02:34 <cwebber2> she is camping
17:02:55 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
17:02:55 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, Arnaud, aaronpk, Ann, cwebber2, rhiaro (muted), ben_thatmustbeme (muted)
17:03:01 <aaronpk> small group
17:03:22 <hhalpin> hhalpin has joined #social
17:03:26 <rhiaro> I can if nobody else wants to :)
17:03:30 <cwebber2> I can't scribe this time anyway
17:03:34 <cwebber2> spotty connection
17:03:46 <hhalpin> Zakim, code?
17:03:46 <Zakim> the conference code is 7625 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), hhalpin
17:03:51 <rhiaro> I'll scribe, no problem
17:04:14 <rhiaro> scribenick: rhiaro
17:04:26 <Zakim> + +1.857.445.aacc
17:04:40 <rhiaro> Topic: Approval of last week's minutes June 9th
17:04:45 <Arnaud> PROPOSED: Approval of Minutes of 9 June 2015 https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-06-09-minutes
17:04:51 <cwebber2> +1
17:04:55 <AnnB> +1
17:04:58 <rhiaro> Arnaud: any objections? +1s please
17:05:01 <Arnaud> RESOLVED: Approval of Minutes of 9 June 2015 https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-06-09-minutes
17:05:04 <rhiaro> ... Hearing no objections, they are approved
17:05:14 <rhiaro> Topic: Tracking of actions and issues
17:05:21 <rhiaro> Arnaud: Any actions anyone wants to declare victory for?
17:05:28 <rhiaro> ... There are a bunch of open actions, would be nice to see some closed
17:05:35 <rhiaro> ... Anyone?
17:05:40 <Arnaud> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/open
17:05:56 <rhiaro> ... Some of them have been here for a while
17:06:11 <hhalpin> Everyone should just look at them and then announce
17:06:14 <hhalpin> if they have done some
17:06:19 <rhiaro> ... We'll move on
17:06:25 <rhiaro> Topic: Social API
17:06:25 <hhalpin> topic: Social API
17:06:43 <hhalpin> Zakim, who's on the phone?
17:06:43 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, Arnaud, aaronpk, Ann, cwebber2, rhiaro (muted), ben_thatmustbeme (muted), +1.857.445.aacc
17:06:51 <rhiaro> ... When we had the f2f we decided it would make sense to converge the proposals and start to draft a document
17:07:03 <rhiaro> ... Starting with a strawman, then fill in the blanks
17:07:11 <rhiaro> ... Look at the different proposals, have some alternatives and see which we prefer
17:07:19 <rhiaro> ... There are several people who volunteered to be editors
17:07:25 <rhiaro> ... Aaron, Amy and Jessica
17:07:37 <hhalpin> I think Tysekia also volunteered to help
17:07:44 <rhiaro> ... So, update? Is there progress?
17:07:49 <aaronpk> q+
17:07:50 <AnnB>  zakim, who's on the phone?
17:07:51 <Zakim> On the phone I see Sandro, Arnaud, aaronpk, Ann, cwebber2, rhiaro (muted), ben_thatmustbeme (muted), +1.857.445.aacc
17:07:57 <Arnaud> ack: aaronpk
17:07:57 <hhalpin> In particular, any unresolvalbe differences?
17:08:02 <rhiaro> ... This is an opportunity for everyone to get on the same page
17:08:08 <rhiaro> aaronpk: We've been making slow progress
17:08:10 <Zakim> +bblfish
17:08:16 <rhiaro> ... What I'm trying to do is base it on actual implementation experience
17:08:22 <rhiaro> ... Been slow because I have a backlog of things to do
17:08:31 <rhiaro> ... However there's now an updated version of the brainstorming document
17:08:37 <aaronpk> https://github.com/w3c-social/Social-APIs-Brainstorming#micropub
17:08:37 <rhiaro> ... Updated micropub section
17:08:54 <rhiaro> ... I implemented this for creating, editing and deleting posts
17:09:00 <AnnB> big thanks to rhiaro, aaronpk, tsyesika!
17:09:06 <rhiaro> ... Plan is to use that as my new micropub endpoint on my own site, had a good experience following this spec
17:09:13 <rhiaro> ... There are two ways to do each post, one form encoded, one json
17:09:22 <rhiaro> ... If you take a look at that, you see examples of both versions
17:09:42 <rhiaro> ... Still more to do to demonstrate this in a useful format, because all it's doing right now is modifying my storage files, not generating output anyone else can see yet
17:09:50 <rhiaro> ... This syntax is based on the idea of edit-posts
17:10:05 <aaronpk> http://indiewebcamp.com/edit
17:10:07 <rhiaro> ... The idea that an operation like an edit can be represented with its own URL and the chnages can be described at that URL using microformats
17:10:14 <rhiaro> ... More background on that wiki page ^
17:10:29 <aaronpk> i can scribe for amy
17:10:31 <aaronpk> scribenick: aaronpk
17:10:44 <rhiaro> https://github.com/w3c-social/activitypump/blob/master/implementation.md
17:10:52 <aaronpk> started going through the activitypump spec and rewrote it in a checklist form ^
17:11:18 <aaronpk> understand how to implement activitypump and how it maps to micropub and the others, micropub is basically a subset of AP, as well as webmention is
17:11:45 <aaronpk> next steps are going through micropub and seeing what's missing that can be achieved with activitypump and see how they can fit toghether that way
17:11:50 <aaronpk> that might be the basis for this document we were talking about
17:12:09 <aaronpk> haven't gotten much feedback from jessica on that document yet, would like to hear from her soon
17:12:34 <Zakim> + +1.314.777.aadd
17:12:49 <AdamB> Zakim, aadd is AdamB
17:12:49 <Zakim> +AdamB; got it
17:12:53 <melvster> are we agreed on implementing inboxes and outboxes?  SoLiD doesnt do that yet, but we've discussed it ...
17:12:56 <aaronpk> Arnaud: right now we have different documents describing the two approaches, but still need to get started on pulling them togetehr into *the* spec
17:13:10 <AnnB> is someone going to do the comparable work with linked data perspective?
17:13:20 <cwebber2> +q
17:13:44 <aaronpk> AnnB asked the question she typed in IRC
17:13:56 <aaronpk> bblfish: haven't looked at this yet but had some questions and will send them on the list
17:14:07 <aaronpk> ... i think melvin might have been following closer
17:14:21 <AnnB> ... or Andreas
17:14:31 <Arnaud> ack aaronpk
17:14:40 <aaronpk> Arnaud: you will need to figure out who there will step up to do that
17:14:42 <Arnaud> ack cwebber
17:14:56 <rhiaro> scribenick: rhiaro
17:15:21 <rhiaro> cwebber2: The convergence doc is affecting how both micropub and activitypump documents are developing
17:15:34 <rhiaro> ... From seeing forechannel and backchannel discussions between Jessica, Aaron and Amy
17:15:41 <AnnB> dog: bark, bark
17:15:45 <rhiaro> ... I'd like to see strawman document, but it does seem to be affecting real things
17:15:46 <AnnB> :-)
17:15:47 <hhalpin> Zakim, noise?
17:15:47 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, hhalpin.
17:15:55 <cwebber2> sorry I couldnt's mute my phone
17:16:06 <rhiaro> Arnaud: How long is it going to take before we can try to have this document?
17:16:08 <cwebber2> sorry about the barks
17:16:15 <rhiaro> ... Investigate further what's possible, what's missing etc
17:16:20 <rhiaro> ... Sounds like people are busy with prep work
17:16:28 <rhiaro> q+
17:16:34 <aaronpk> scribenick: aaronpk
17:16:35 <Arnaud> ack rhiaro
17:16:44 <hhalpin> From W3C's perspective, we'd want a FPWD by TPAC at latest - we're quite behind schedule :)
17:16:56 <aaronpk> rhiaro: we could start putting something together this week, would be a starting point
17:17:01 <hhalpin> Whenever the editors are comfortable, quite happy to do a Respec.js training and set them up in CVS etc.
17:17:09 <AnnB> hhalpin, are you going to dial in?
17:17:15 <aaronpk> Arnaud: i understand the challenge of doing this but it was harry's suggestion that we try and mgiht just be a strawman
17:17:22 <aaronpk> ...but that would give us a sense of what needs to be specified
17:17:22 <hhalpin> q+
17:17:37 <Arnaud> ack hhalpin
17:18:11 <aaronpk> hhalpin: i agree with amy that we don't want to create yet a third or 4th document that is a fork of the practical work being done
17:18:28 <aaronpk> .. my proposal would be whenever folks are comfortable to converge at least two of the docs, we can do the first editor's draft
17:18:42 <aaronpk> .. i would jhust say whenever you guys are ready ping the WG and we can start the editor's document
17:19:37 <aaronpk> (discussion about github vs csv editing flow)
17:19:50 <aaronpk> s/csv/cvs
17:20:02 <aaronpk> Arnaud: this is a new tool that makes publishing in TR space as easy as it can possibly be
17:20:16 <hhalpin> See here for links:
17:20:16 <hhalpin> https://github.com/w3c/echidna/wiki/How-to-use-Echidna-with-ReSpec-and-GitHub
17:20:17 <aaronpk> .. which is a lot lot better than the old process
17:20:18 <hhalpin> Much *easier*!
17:20:37 <AnnB> q+
17:20:39 <hhalpin> Here's the other link:
17:20:40 <hhalpin> https://github.com/w3c/echidna/wiki/How-to-use-Echidna
17:20:42 <Arnaud> ack sandro
17:20:59 <aaronpk> sandro: is aaron's new json document enough to implement this?
17:21:16 <aaronpk> q+
17:21:43 <aaronpk> rhiaro: the brainstorming doc is a comparison of activitypump and micropub, both are implementaable. both do things that the otiher doesn't do, and use slightly different vocabularies
17:21:53 <Arnaud> ack aaronpk
17:21:55 <aaronpk> sandro: both of you said you're implementing before you write more down
17:22:07 <rhiaro> scribenick: rhiaro
17:22:19 <rhiaro> aaronpk: the document there right now is part of the picture, the micropub syntax for creating things
17:22:36 <rhiaro> ... you can implement it, but it doesn't have the other half of it which is rendering html, what you do with it when you get the commands
17:22:43 <rhiaro> ... because that's where I am in my implementation process
17:22:49 <rhiaro> ... I've been writing the document, then writing the code, and going back and forth
17:22:56 <rhiaro> ... So it'll keep progressing that way for a while
17:22:58 <Zakim> + +1.408.335.aaee
17:23:15 <rhiaro> ... Part of the goal of the brainstorming document is pulling in the things from activitypump that I'm going to need to do that aren't in micropub yet
17:23:24 <rhiaro> ... that's where the convergence is happening
17:23:34 <rhiaro> ... I find it more useful to have code alongside it to justify things in the spec
17:23:34 <Arnaud> ack AnnB
17:23:37 <KevinMarks> zakim, aaee is me
17:23:37 <Zakim> +KevinMarks; got it
17:24:18 <rhiaro> AnnB: Sounds great. Amy proposed to write a strawman document, although harry said we don't need another document. It sounds like what you're working on now are technical explorations, and maybe it is valuable to have a comprehnsive draft of what the ultimate document might be like
17:24:23 <hhalpin> Ann, to be precise I said there was no need to rush it, but I'm happy to set-up an editor's draft when Amy, Aaron, and Tysika are ready
17:24:27 <rhiaro> Arnaud: I second this, I thought that was the plan
17:24:44 <rhiaro> ... Current documents are useful in documenting the status quo, but not necessarily what we need in the end
17:24:55 <rhiaro> ... So you could keep working on that and slowly morph it into the spec that we want to produce
17:25:09 <rhiaro> ... Might be easier to start a fresh document that is meant to be the final spec, and have the outline and fill in the blanks
17:25:18 <rhiaro> ... It's a matter of editorial method
17:25:27 <bblfish> q+
17:25:33 <rhiaro> ... Happy for editors to figure out what works best
17:25:35 <Arnaud> ack bblfish
17:25:38 <AnnB> I agree .. it's up to the editors, which way works for you guys
17:25:59 <AnnB> q+
17:26:18 <rhiaro> bblfish: As I understand, it's going very deeply into how you can tie activitypump and micropub together. Before you go to deep it would be helpful to try to do the opposite with activitypump and linked data. Start with major alignments and see if the pieces fit together
17:26:25 <rhiaro> ... How would one do that
17:26:29 <Arnaud> ack AnnB
17:26:36 <rhiaro> AnnB: We're waiting for someone from the linked data side to do that work
17:26:44 <rhiaro> Arnaud: go ahead!
17:27:11 <rhiaro> ... Someone needs to step up, they are willing to accommodate this, but they can't invent the information. Someone from SoLiD needs to step up and provide this
17:27:20 <rhiaro> bblfish: In order to do this one needs to work at the big pieces first, see how they align
17:27:21 <hhalpin> It's also fine to go linearly - i.e. see how activitypump and micropub goes together, and then align that result with SoLID
17:27:26 <hhalpin> whatever works for folks
17:27:37 <rhiaro> ... That you can do by writing up the different pieces that exist and trying to tie one to the other
17:27:39 <AnnB> great, bblfish ... do it!
17:27:44 <cwebber2> bblfish, that's what the brainstorming doc is doing already
17:27:47 <rhiaro> ... Then you can have a discussion
17:27:53 <cwebber2> but it needs help from solid
17:28:14 <rhiaro> ... Wanted to check that everybody agreed this is the right proces
17:28:33 <rhiaro> AnnB: it seems like you or melvster or any of the other SoLiD people just need to start doing something
17:29:21 <rhiaro> Arnaud: what we're trying to tell you is there is no disagreement with this approach, there's a lack of putting things in writing from the linked data side
17:29:37 <rhiaro> bblfish - please do make a PR to the brainstorming doc to fill in the same things fro SoLiD!
17:29:40 <hhalpin> Well, I think Andrei is updating the SoLID docs
17:29:45 <rhiaro> Q+
17:30:17 <Arnaud> ack rhiaro
17:31:05 <aaronpk> rhiaro: that document is what we've been doing, comparing activitypump and micropub, we'd love to get SoLiD in there as well. just make a pull request, we'd be happy to see that
17:31:15 <rhiaro> https://github.com/w3c-social/Social-APIs-Brainstorming
17:31:18 <aaronpk> bblfish: which document?
17:31:28 <ben_thatmustbeme> bblfish: its in the agenda too i believe
17:31:57 <bblfish> thanks
17:32:33 <rhiaro> scribenick: rhiaro
17:32:43 <rhiaro> sandro: I'd like to encourage LDP people to try the implementation first approach
17:32:57 <melvster> sandro++
17:33:00 <Loqi> sandro has 14 karma
17:33:03 <rhiaro> bblfish: in LDP we had the implementations a year before the WG
17:33:18 <rhiaro> Arnaud: you can do both approaches at the same time
17:33:27 <rhiaro> ... aaron is trying to document and implement and going back and forth, you could do something similar
17:33:42 <rhiaro> ... What sandro is saying is we don't want just vapourware, we want to ground the work in real implementations
17:34:07 <rhiaro> sandro: the SoLiD code works, there are a bunch of servers and a bunch of clients, we could try to get them to speak some elements fo activitypump and micropub and see what changes that requires (just thinking aloud)
17:34:16 <rhiaro> Arnaud: hopefully people have a better understanding of where we stand
17:34:19 <ben_thatmustbeme> yes
17:34:20 <rhiaro> ... Is ben_thatmustbeme on the call?
17:34:24 <ben_thatmustbeme> very tired
17:34:46 <rhiaro> Topic: AS2 language support
17:35:00 <rhiaro> ben_thatmustbeme: Jessica would also have a lot to say and isn't here
17:35:13 <rhiaro> ... Basically I've been going through AS2 and fixing microformats examples to match real world implementation
17:35:29 <rhiaro> ... Highlighting parts where I question whether they're needed or if microformats needs to add features
17:35:34 <rhiaro> ... One that did come up was multi-language support
17:35:39 <cwebber2> +q
17:35:44 <rhiaro> ... in AS2 you can add multiple translated versions of the same post
17:35:46 <rhiaro> (contentMap)
17:36:00 <rhiaro> ... I want to float the idea of saying that it doesn't match any user story, no discusison anywhere of multiple languages
17:36:07 <hhalpin> +1 multiple languages
17:36:09 <rhiaro> ... And discuss possibly removeing that
17:36:13 <hhalpin> q+
17:36:17 <melvster> FYI: (not just *post*, any text)
17:36:18 <rhiaro> ... But without james and without jessica I don't know how far we can get
17:36:19 <Arnaud> ack cwebber
17:36:32 <rhiaro> cwebber2: I have a suggestion that might make things easier
17:36:33 <hhalpin> Note that W3C does have staff that can help with this
17:36:44 <hhalpin> if we need some advise, i.e. Richard Ishida
17:36:44 <rhiaro> ... The handling things in multiple langues is already handles in json-ld
17:36:57 <rhiaro> ... It might simplify things if we don't mention it in the AS2 spec, but don't exclude it either
17:37:01 <rhiaro> ... It's still possible via json-ld
17:37:13 <rhiaro> ... But we don't actually specify it in the spec, so we can kind of explore it more in the future
17:37:30 <rhiaro> ... But it doesn't necessarily set up a barrier when we don't know how hard it's going to be
17:37:40 <rhiaro> ... I do agree that we don't need to conclude anything while jessica isn't here
17:37:45 <Arnaud> ack  hhalpin
17:37:46 <KevinMarks> language is also included in microformats implicitly as html has the lang attributr
17:37:50 <rhiaro> <rhiaro> I also assume elf would have something to say
17:37:56 <Zakim> -cwebber2
17:37:59 <rhiaro> harry: w3c actually has i18n staff who can give us advice
17:38:08 <KevinMarks> though currently not part of the mf2 parsing spec
17:38:09 <cwebber2> sorry, spotty connection as I said
17:38:17 <rhiaro> ... Sounds like we can lean on json-ld, but if we need it, the w3c has people whose full time job thi sis
17:38:19 <cwebber2> I'll ust have to participate via text for now
17:38:30 <ben_thatmustbeme> q+
17:38:37 <rhiaro> ... I agree that multiple language support is a good thing for specs in general
17:38:50 <Arnaud> ack sandro
17:38:52 <hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/International/
17:38:54 <rhiaro> Arnaud: from the i18n working group, we should have this
17:39:05 <hhalpin> If we have any questions, W3C has specialist staff can help
17:39:11 <rhiaro> sandro: json-ld inherits from rdf a halfway decent notion of multi language stuff
17:39:29 <rhiaro> ... but it doesn't have really clarified is 'is a given value available in multiple languages'
17:39:54 <rhiaro> ... eg. does a particular city have a name in english and a name in french and a name in russian.. does that count as multiple values, or one value with multiple tags
17:40:03 <rhiaro> ... json-ld isn't going to solve that for us
17:40:13 <rhiaro> ... we need to solve or worry about it later
17:40:19 <rhiaro> ... the i18n activity doesn't know anything about this either
17:40:33 <rhiaro> ... they're happy to work through use cases like ltr vs rtl script and we'll have to get them to review that
17:40:39 <Arnaud> ack ben_thatmustbeme
17:40:40 <rhiaro> ... but they don't know anything specific about these technologies that would be helpful
17:41:09 <rhiaro> ben_thatmustbeme: Just want to be clear that I understand setting a language and saying this text is english, this is an entire post drafted in english then draft the same post in another language
17:41:13 <rhiaro> ... and have that be the same object
17:41:24 <rhiaro> sandro: then it gets weird because your objects model gets confused about how many posts that is
17:41:32 <KevinMarks> rel="alternate" hreflang="fr" etc works for whole posts
17:41:40 <Zakim> -Ann
17:41:47 <AnnB> aaargh
17:41:55 <KevinMarks> it's mixed language within a post that is trickier
17:42:07 <cwebber2> brb
17:42:16 <rhiaro> Arnaud: We should have the possibility of making posts in different languages, but not necessarily handle this case of multiple versions of the post in multiple languages
17:42:23 <rhiaro> ben_thatmustbeme: yes
17:42:29 <KevinMarks> q+ for html lang and hreflang
17:42:39 <rhiaro> ... On facebook/G+ this isn't a feature. I have friends who will include two languages in one post
17:42:45 <cwebber2> back
17:42:58 <Zakim> +Ann
17:43:19 <rhiaro> Arnaud: how is ti marked up?
17:43:24 <rhiaro> ben_thatmustbeme: it's not
17:43:44 <rhiaro> sandro: some languages you can't tell what it is by looking at it, but a screenreader would need to know the language to know how to pronounce things
17:43:56 <rhiaro> ben_thatmustbeme: as soon as you mix languages, this is always going to be ap roblem
17:44:00 <rhiaro> ... unless you markup every sentence
17:44:05 <rhiaro> sandro: html has 20 years of support for that
17:44:14 <Arnaud> ack KevinMarks
17:44:14 <Zakim> KevinMarks, you wanted to discuss html lang and hreflang
17:44:37 <rhiaro> KevinMarks: That's what I was going to say. THe microformats response is the lang= on individual elements
17:44:41 <rhiaro> ... This is existing practce
17:45:09 <rhiaro> ... The challenge is, you can do mixed languages within a document and I've seen people do that. What we haven't seen so far in microformats is parsing that out and putting it into the parsed json format
17:45:29 <rhiaro> ... Possibly because we haven't seen much use yet
17:45:40 <rhiaro> ... Another thing is a Google-imposed cultural bias that assumes people only want one language at once
17:45:47 <rhiaro> ... They have documented this, they don't recognise multilingual text
17:45:57 <rhiaro> ... We have ways to express this in html. We should find examples.
17:46:08 <rhiaro> ... What I haven't seen in html or json-ld is a way of saying here's a phrase that translates multiple ways
17:46:11 <rhiaro> ... We did have that in OpenSocial
17:46:34 <rhiaro> ... We had ways of expressing activitystreams stuff with different language markup, but made the same assumption that you're reading in multiple languages
17:46:40 <rhiaro> sandro: I just wonder if this is in scope
17:46:47 <hhalpin> Its worth thinking about IMHO
17:46:50 <AnnB> q+
17:46:54 <rhiaro> ... It's obviously a real world problem, but we're still well behind silos, not sure it makes sense for us to try to get ahead of them on this one
17:47:00 <Arnaud> ack AnnB
17:47:24 <rhiaro> AnnB: I agree with sandro in terms of priority, but it seems like a really important thing especially since we're doing social
17:48:01 <AnnB> I just don't want to lose it
17:48:04 <AnnB> as a concept
17:48:05 <rhiaro> Arnaud: don't see anyone else on the queue, we can continue this discussion. Seems like general agreement we should go light on this, may be too early for us to try to tackle this problem
17:48:21 <rhiaro> ... That's the end of the agenda. Anything else?
17:48:33 <rhiaro> sandro: WebEx. THis is the last week with Zakim
17:48:38 <melvster> FYI: jessica was strongly in favour of keeping multi lang
17:48:47 <rhiaro> ... There will be a phonenumber, or webex software
17:48:52 <hhalpin> In an plus, SIP should work better!
17:48:54 <rhiaro> ... We'll send an email with the details
17:48:59 <AnnB> yay for Jessica!
17:49:02 <rhiaro> ... We'll also do a practice next Monday, 24 hours ahead
17:49:11 <rhiaro> ... And try joining 15 minutes early next week
17:49:15 <AnnB> I definitely don't want to lose the multi lang concept
17:49:27 <rhiaro> ... IRC will be used the same, webex is just for audio
17:49:36 <rhiaro> Arnaud: I've done it with other groups, the biggest loss is the tracking of attendance
17:49:43 <rhiaro> ... We'll have to have people tell Zakim that they're present on the call
17:49:49 <rhiaro> ... So the minutes reflect the people attending
17:49:53 <KevinMarks> why webex and not WebRTC?
17:50:11 <AnnB> too early, I think, KevinMarks
17:50:27 <AnnB> I believe they're looking for WebRTC solution on longer term
17:50:40 <KevinMarks> https://talky.io/ is pretty good
17:50:54 <AnnB> right, it's great .. but only handles ~5 people
17:50:59 <ben_thatmustbeme> KevinMarks: can't call in to talky.io can you?
17:51:06 <aaronpk> talky.io isn't good for large groups, beta.talky.io is better at that. also no phone bridge for talky
17:51:14 <rhiaro> Arnaud: talks about ways webex might go wrong, peopel should call in early
17:52:01 <rhiaro> sandro: I've been using android version, I guess there's an iOS version, that might work well
17:52:24 <rhiaro> Arnaud: if you use the client you join the meeting officially
17:52:28 <AnnB> connecting via browser did not work for me with Firefox, but did work with IE
17:52:31 <KevinMarks> I use google voice to phone into the phone bridge here
17:52:36 <rhiaro> ... client offers 3 ways to connect audio
17:52:40 <AnnB> might be some issue with my Boeing-configured FF
17:52:42 <AnnB> dunno
17:52:56 <rhiaro> ... Let us know if you have any questions about webex
17:52:57 <cwebber2> sandro: is there a link on how to clal in via SIP or phone somewhere, or will there be?
17:52:57 <Zakim> - +1.857.445.aacc
17:53:07 <aaronpk> goodbye Zakim! *tear*
17:53:09 <ben_thatmustbeme> good bye Zakim
17:53:10 <Zakim> -aaronpk
17:53:11 <rhiaro> ... Thanks for joining, talk to you next week!
17:53:13 <Zakim> -Sandro
17:53:15 <hhalpin> bye bye Zakim :(
17:53:17 <rhiaro> Aww, bye Zakim
17:53:18 <Arnaud> trackbot, end meeting
17:53:18 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
17:53:18 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Sandro, Arnaud, aaronpk, Ann, +1.773.614.aaaa, rhiaro, +1.401.305.aabb, ben_thatmustbeme, cwebber2, +1.857.445.aacc, bblfish,
17:53:18 <Loqi> aww, cheer up
17:53:21 <Zakim> ... +1.314.777.aadd, AdamB, +1.408.335.aaee, KevinMarks
17:53:23 <Loqi> aww
17:53:25 <Zakim> -bblfish
17:53:26 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
17:53:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/16-social-minutes.html trackbot
17:53:27 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
17:53:27 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
17:53:29 <Zakim> -rhiaro
17:53:29 <AnnB> waaaa ... Zakim ..