16:27:09 RRSAgent has joined #ua 16:27:09 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/06/11-ua-irc 16:27:11 RRSAgent, make logs public 16:27:11 Zakim has joined #ua 16:27:13 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 16:27:13 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 33 minutes 16:27:14 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 16:27:14 Date: 11 June 2015 16:27:18 rrsagent, set logs public 16:27:27 rrsagent, make minutes 16:27:27 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/11-ua-minutes.html allanj 16:27:34 chair: jim Allan 16:36:58 allanj has joined #ua 16:51:01 jeanne has joined #ua 16:53:46 Agenda+ GL4.1.4 proposal based NVDA comment 16:54:05 agenda+ Cynthia comments 16:54:07 Agenda+ Use Cases - Accessible by Default. 16:54:08 http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Use_Cases_for_UAAG_Applicability 17:01:19 present+ 17:06:52 Greg has joined #ua 17:08:17 present + 17:13:03 present +Greg 17:13:08 present +Jim 17:13:12 present+ Greg 17:13:27 present+ Jim 17:13:34 rrsagent, make minutes 17:13:34 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/11-ua-minutes.html jeanne 17:13:35 Present+ Jeanne 17:14:13 rrsagent, make minutes 17:14:13 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/11-ua-minutes.html jeanne 17:14:50 open item 1 17:15:06 topic: GL 4.1.4 17:15:20 https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Comments_%26_Responses_30_April_2015 17:15:29 Proposal: 4.1.4 DOMs Programmatically Available as fallback: 17:15:30 If the user agent accessibility API does not provide sufficient information to one or more platform accessibility services, then Document Object Models (DOM), must be made programmatically available to assistive technologies. (Level A) 17:20:25 Several screenreader vendors say one particular browser has an insufficient accessibility API, and they need DOM access 17:21:11 discussion of technical work arounds for lack of DOM access 17:23:52 https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Comments_%26_Responses_30_April_2015 17:24:57 ja: +1 on proposal 17:25:04 +1 to proposal 17:25:06 +1 17:25:34 RESOLUTION: change 4.1.4 to be DOMs Programmatically Available as fallback: If the user agent accessibility API does not provide sufficient information to one or more platform accessibility services, then Document Object Models (DOM), must be made programmatically available to assistive technologies. (Level A) 17:25:42 rrsagent, make minutes 17:25:42 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/11-ua-minutes.html allanj 17:26:21 Close item 1 17:28:35 4.1.4. Intent proposed: Assistive technologies need all possible information. Applications such as user agents and assistive technologies use a combination of DOMs, accessibility Application Programming Interfaces (API), native platform APIs, and hard-coded heuristics to provide an accessible user interface and accessible content. While most assistive technology vendors prefer to use the AAPIs, if 17:28:35 the AAPI cannot provide enough access to the content, then It is the user agent's responsibility to expose the DOM to assistive technology. 17:29:42 revision: Assistive technologies need all possible information. Applications such as user agents and assistive technologies use a combination of DOMs, Accessibility Application Programming Interfaces (AAPI), native platform APIs, and hard-coded heuristics to provide an accessible user interface and accessible content. While most assistive technology vendors prefer to use the AAPIs, if the AAPI 17:29:42 cannot provide enough access to the content, then It is the user agent's responsibility to expose the DOM to assistive technology. 17:37:07 Even though a UA developer may think that they've exposed all necessary information through the AAPI, it is extremely difficult to be sure that the coverage is indeed complete until a screen reader actually tries to rely on it. That is why developers are strongly encouraged to provide redundant information through as many mechanisms as possible, including the DOM. 17:40:59 topic: response 1 17:41:01 ok 17:41:12 topic: response to 2 17:41:24 gl: add swapping styles between users 17:41:52 ok 17:41:57 Re #2, add that we require the ability to copy settings from one system to another, allowing a technical expert to develop the customized style sheet which is then distributed to many end users. 17:43:30 Might also add that we've altered the wording to make it clearer that this is not just about style sheets in the CSS-specific meaning, but also includes other mechanisms for that could include graphical approaches that would be easier for the average end user. 17:45:12 topic: response to 3 17:49:30 ja: so operating systems settings are high contrast, bounce keys, repeat keys. Font family, size and color are over ridden by the browser, as are foreground and background, except for high contrast mode. 17:50:24 ... not sure what other OS accessibility settings the UA should pick up 17:50:42 Jim points out that one advantage of requiring accessibility settings be at the browser level (rather than only at the OS level) is that 2.7.5 recommends browser settings be transferrable between systems, while we cannot say the same for OS settings. 17:52:44 for the UA UI it should respect the OS settings 18:04:52 ok 18:05:05 topic: response to 4 18:05:07 ok 18:05:34 topic: response to 1.1.3 18:09:22 topic: response to 1.3.1 18:11:23 Our response to Cynthia's comment on 1.3.1 could say that 1.3.1 does not require the UA to provide it's own UI for adjusting the settings. If the UA wants to simply respect user-settings from the OS level, that is fine. However, if the OS does not allow the user to set one of the listed values (e.g. distinguishing visited from unvisited links) then the UA would be required to provide its own... 18:11:24 ...UI for this user option. 18:12:09 additionally, this can be met through the a user styling mechanism 18:13:46 (aside) in the future we should have an sc that would merge user styles (default for selection, font, etc) with the authors 18:14:25 topic: response to 1.4.5 18:17:16 If the UA does not provide an option to pick up default text settings from the OS, it will not block users from accessing any content, it merely makes it a bit more work for the user to configure the UA to have equivalent settings. That extra one-time effort does not seem to be enough to justify making it Level A. 18:18:19 That being said, we agree that every browser should provide this option as a convenience. 18:18:30 Topic: response to 1.7 18:19:18 reference: see response to 2 above 18:19:57 topic: response to 1.8.14 18:20:13 for some users they may have to break a site to get the information. 18:20:21 ok 18:20:53 topic: response to 2.7 18:20:55 ok 18:21:30 topic: response to 4.1.4 18:21:32 ok 18:27:58 rrsagent, make minutes 18:27:58 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/06/11-ua-minutes.html allanj