18:50:39 RRSAgent has joined #aapi 18:50:39 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/05/26-aapi-irc 18:50:41 RRSAgent, make logs public 18:50:41 Zakim has joined #aapi 18:50:43 Zakim, this will be WAI_PF 18:50:43 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM scheduled to start in 10 minutes 18:50:44 Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference 18:50:44 Date: 26 May 2015 18:50:53 chair: Joseph_Scheuhammer 18:51:18 agenda: this 18:51:25 agenda+ ACTION-1542: (Joanie) Verify the commit for mozilla bug 1013584 and report the atk role to Joseph. 18:51:32 agenda+ ISSUE-635: (Joseph) AAPI mappings for role rowgroup. 18:51:41 agenda+ ACTION-1544: (Cynthia) Document rowgroup mappings for ie 11 for both uia express and uia 18:51:50 agenda+ ACTION-1546: (David) Make sure the rowgroup mapping for MSAA/IA2 is accurate. 18:52:01 agenda+ ACTION-1547: (Rich) Update test test cases involving rowgroup to ensure they are included within a grid container and to ensure that the expected result matches the new mappings. 18:52:13 agenda+ ACTION-1620: (Cynthia) Propose UIA Express and UIA mappings for aria-placeholder. 18:52:21 agenda+ ACTION-1623: (Joseph) Confirm with James Craig that the proper AXAPI mapping of aria-placeholder is AXPlaceholderValue. 18:52:28 agenda+ ACTION-1585: (Cynthia) Add to the section on differences among aapis highlighting the features of uia. 18:52:36 agenda+ ACTION-1625: (Joseph) Add mappings for aria-interactive. 18:52:43 agenda+ Action/issue triage (https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23) 18:52:53 agenda+ be done. 18:55:18 MichaelC has joined #aapi 18:55:59 present+ Joseph_Scheuhammer 18:56:23 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/26-aapi-minutes.html clown 18:59:13 present+ Joanmarie_Diggs 19:03:51 action-1542? 19:03:51 action-1542 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Verify the commit for mozilla bug 1013584 and report the atk role to joseph. -- due 2015-05-01 -- OPEN 19:03:51 https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1542 19:06:54 bgaraventa1979 has joined #aapi 19:07:21 present+ Bryan_Garaventa 19:09:43 scribe: joanie 19:09:49 Zakim, take up item 1 19:09:49 agendum 1. "ACTION-1542: (Joanie) Verify the commit for mozilla bug 1013584 and report the atk role to Joseph." taken up [from clown] 19:09:53 action-1542? 19:09:54 action-1542 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Verify the commit for mozilla bug 1013584 and report the atk role to joseph. -- due 2015-05-01 -- OPEN 19:09:54 https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1542 19:10:00 http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-presentation 19:10:12 JS: The second URL is the mapping specification for presentation. 19:10:21 JS: I'm calling your attention to the ATK row. 19:10:27 JS: (Reads from spec) 19:11:35 "For objects that have required owned descendants (e.g., a grid owns gridcells, a list owns listitems), expose each leaf descendant as ROLE_SECTION." 19:13:11 JD: So that looks good. 19:13:19 "and the object is in the a11y tree, expose the descendant as ROLE_SECTION". 19:14:30 JD: Regarding the second item, I think we want to add a statement similar to what is in the first item, namely you only expose those owned children as ROLE_SECTION if you are going to include them in the tree. 19:14:53 JD: In other words, I don't need an empty div just because it was an owned cell in a presentational table. 19:15:18 Proposeed: "For objects that have required owned descendants (e.g., a grid owns gridcells, a list owns listitems), and the descendant is in the a11y tree, expose it as ROLE_SECTION. User agents SHOULD prune empty descendants from the a11y tree". 19:16:21 JD: Looks great to me! 19:16:34 JS: I would like to see something like this for other rows in here. 19:16:46 JS: I like AX API, "Not mapped" 19:17:52 RESOLVED: Assign action-1542 to Joseph, and modifiy ATK/AT-SPI mapping to include the above statement about descendants ("For objects that have required owned descendants (e.g., a grid owns gridcells, a list owns listitems), and the descendant is in the a11y tree, expose it as ROLE_SECTION.  User agents SHOULD prune empty descendants from the a11y tree".) 19:18:16 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/26-aapi-minutes.html clown 19:20:04 RESOLVED: Assign action-1542 to Joseph, and modifiy ATK/AT-SPI mapping to include the above statement about descendants ("For objects that have required owned descendants (e.g., a grid owns gridcells, a list owns listitems), and the descendant is in the a11y tree, expose it as ROLE_SECTION.  User agents SHOULD prune empty descendants from the a11y tree".) 19:20:20 RRSAgent, make minutes 19:20:20 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/26-aapi-minutes.html joanie 19:21:10 Zakim, next item 19:21:10 agendum 2. "ISSUE-635: (Joseph) AAPI mappings for role rowgroup." taken up [from clown] 19:21:20 issue-635? 19:21:20 issue-635 -- Determine if uaig mappings for rowgroup are correct -- open 19:21:20 https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/635 19:21:42 JS: The original issue, way back when, rowgroup was not mapped at all. 19:21:53 JS: Then Mozilla decided to map it, I think to the group role. 19:22:11 JS: We here came up with if it is focusable or interactive, then it should have an accessible in the accessibility tree. 19:22:18 JS: Otherwise, it wouldn't be mapped. 19:22:24 http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-rowgroup 19:22:29 JS: I haven't changed any of them (at above link). 19:22:59 BG: If it's mentioned using aria-owns, it also needs to be in the tree. 19:23:26 JS: I didn't do that in my example because there was no need for an explicit owns. 19:23:36 http://clown.idrc.ocad.ca/Fluid/aria/FocusableRowGroup.html 19:23:44 JS: The above is the example I made for testing. 19:24:06 JS: It contains both a grid made up of divs and spans which has rowgroups which are interactive, and one that is not. 19:24:33 JS: The other has tables. 19:24:51 JS: Firefox has accessibles for all rowgroups. 19:25:06 JS: But in the case of tbody elements, Firefox only exposes the interactive one. 19:25:44 I am now muted. 19:26:16 present+ Cynthia_Shelly 19:26:26 s/I am now muted.// 19:28:00 s/The other has tables./The other has tables with three tbody elements which are interactive, and one tbody which is not./ 19:28:20 s/has tables/has table/ 19:28:34 s/interactive one/interactive ones/ 19:28:48 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015May/0120.html 19:28:58 JS: So I sent email out to the list and James Craig. 19:29:10 s/https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015May/0120.html 19:29:23 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015May/0111.html 19:29:33 s|https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015May/0120.html|| 19:29:42 JS: No reply from James. 19:29:57 JS: Matt did reply and say it should be a table; not a grid. 19:30:05 JS: I replied to his question. 19:30:14 JS: This starts to overlap with aria-interactive. 19:30:34 BG: The question I had was not about whether or not it was interactive, but when it appears in the accessibility tree. 19:30:56 RRSAgent, make minutes 19:30:56 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/26-aapi-minutes.html joanie 19:31:32 s|s/|| 19:32:27 JS: So if it's interactive, or focusable, or referenced by aria-owns, the rowgroup should have an accessible in the tree? 19:32:34 BG: Sounds reasonable to me. 19:32:44 JS: Ok, what should it be mapped to? 19:32:49 BG: Group makes sense to me. 19:32:53 http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-rowgroup 19:33:04 JS: (Reads from above URL) 19:33:47 JD: Map it to ROLE_PANEL for ATK/AT-SPI2. 19:34:07 JS: UIA is expose as group role. Is that correct? 19:34:38 CS: On IE a div was always exposed as a group. 19:35:09 CS: With those caveats about it (i.e. interactive, focusable, owned), group is correct. 19:35:20 CS: We do expose div a lot. And Firefox does too. 19:35:40 JS: You actually have an action about this. 19:35:46 Zakim, next item 19:35:46 agendum 3. "ACTION-1544: (Cynthia) Document rowgroup mappings for ie 11 for both uia express and uia" taken up [from clown] 19:35:56 action-1544? 19:35:56 action-1544 -- Cynthia Shelly to Document rowgroup mappings for ie 11 for both uia express and uia -- due 2015-02-03 -- OPEN 19:35:56 https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1544 19:36:38 CS: I will see if I can have this done in two weeks. 19:36:43 JS: June 9th. 19:38:40 JS: You don't have an action to do this Joanie. I'll create a new one. 19:38:52 ACTION: Joanie to provide mappings for role="rowgroup" for ATK/AT-SPI when there is an accessible in the a11y tree for the element. 19:38:52 Created ACTION-1643 - Provide mappings for role="rowgroup" for atk/at-spi when there is an accessible in the a11y tree for the element. [on Joanmarie Diggs - due 2015-06-02]. 19:38:58 action-1643? 19:38:58 action-1643 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Provide mappings for role="rowgroup" for atk/at-spi when there is an accessible in the a11y tree for the element. -- due 2015-06-02 -- OPEN 19:38:58 https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1643 19:40:47 JD: My action is done. :) ROLE_PANEL. 19:40:55 JS: I'll assign it to me then. 19:41:07 Zakim, next item 19:41:07 agendum 4. "ACTION-1546: (David) Make sure the rowgroup mapping for MSAA/IA2 is accurate." taken up [from clown] 19:41:20 JS: David is not here. I'll ping him or Alex. 19:41:51 Zakim, next item 19:41:51 agendum 4 was just opened, joanie 19:42:15 Zakim, close item 4 19:42:15 agendum 4, ACTION-1546: (David) Make sure the rowgroup mapping for MSAA/IA2 is accurate., closed 19:42:16 Zakim, next item 19:42:17 I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 19:42:17 5. ACTION-1547: (Rich) Update test test cases involving rowgroup to ensure they are included within a grid container and to ensure that the expected result matches the new 19:42:17 ... mappings. [from clown] 19:42:17 agendum 5. "ACTION-1547: (Rich) Update test test cases involving rowgroup to ensure they are included within a grid container and to ensure that the expected result matches the new 19:42:19 ... mappings." taken up [from clown] 19:42:23 JS: Rich is on vacation. 19:42:35 JS: His action was to update the test cases given the new mapping. 19:42:53 JS: We'll leave it as-is so it will pop up next time. 19:43:01 action-1620? 19:43:01 action-1620 -- Cynthia Shelly to Propose UIA Express and UIA mappings for aria-placeholder. -- due 2015-05-19 -- OPEN 19:43:01 https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1620 19:43:58 http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaPlaceholder 19:44:05 JS: The mapping is at the above URL. 19:44:27 JS: (Reads statement about UIA Express) 19:44:33 CS: That does sound right. 19:44:41 JS: UIA says the same thing. 19:45:31 CS: It's correct for now. I'd like to improve UIA in this area. 19:45:52 JS: I still need to ping Alex and/or David for IA2. 19:46:48 CS: Also, aria-placeholder will be used in the accessible name calculation as a last resort. 19:47:12 JS: The current last resort is title. 19:47:19 CS: I'm not sure what we'd do in that case. 19:47:24 JS: Could you check that? 19:47:33 CS: Yes, but please give me an action. 19:47:51 action: Cynthia to check which is the actual last resort betwen @title and @aria-placeholder. 19:47:51 Created ACTION-1644 - Check which is the actual last resort betwen @title and @aria-placeholder. [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2015-06-02]. 19:48:09 action-1644? 19:48:09 action-1644 -- Cynthia Shelly to Check which is the actual last resort betwen @title and @aria-placeholder. -- due 2015-06-02 -- OPEN 19:48:09 https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1644 19:49:19 Zakim, next item 19:49:19 agendum 6. "ACTION-1620: (Cynthia) Propose UIA Express and UIA mappings for aria-placeholder." taken up [from clown] 19:49:52 Zakim, close item 6 19:49:52 agendum 6, ACTION-1620: (Cynthia) Propose UIA Express and UIA mappings for aria-placeholder., closed 19:49:54 I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 19:49:54 7. ACTION-1623: (Joseph) Confirm with James Craig that the proper AXAPI mapping of aria-placeholder is AXPlaceholderValue. [from clown] 19:49:57 Zakim, next item 19:49:57 agendum 7. "ACTION-1623: (Joseph) Confirm with James Craig that the proper AXAPI mapping of aria-placeholder is AXPlaceholderValue." taken up [from clown] 19:50:19 JS: I sent him email. 19:50:40 JS: I don't believe I've heard from him. 19:51:03 JS: I'll ping him. 19:51:29 Zakim, next item 19:51:29 agendum 8. "ACTION-1585: (Cynthia) Add to the section on differences among aapis highlighting the features of uia." taken up [from clown] 19:51:35 action-1585? 19:51:35 action-1585 -- Cynthia Shelly to Add to the section on differences among aapis highlighting the features of uia. -- due 2015-05-19 -- OPEN 19:51:35 https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1585 19:52:01 CS: I've not yet done this. Please give me three weeks. 19:52:16 Zakim, next item 19:52:16 agendum 8 was just opened, joanie 19:52:23 Zakim, close item 8 19:52:23 agendum 8, ACTION-1585: (Cynthia) Add to the section on differences among aapis highlighting the features of uia., closed 19:52:25 Zakim, next item 19:52:26 I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is 19:52:26 9. ACTION-1625: (Joseph) Add mappings for aria-interactive. [from clown] 19:52:26 agendum 9. "ACTION-1625: (Joseph) Add mappings for aria-interactive." taken up [from clown] 19:52:31 action-1625? 19:52:31 action-1625 -- Joseph Scheuhammer to Add interactive property to core mappings that propogates from grid or table to all grid aria grid or table structural elements. the interactive property should have same mapping as defined in issue 633 -- due 2015-05-22 -- OPEN 19:52:32 https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1625 19:52:47 Zakim, take up item 9 19:52:47 agendum 9. "ACTION-1625: (Joseph) Add mappings for aria-interactive." taken up [from clown] 19:53:16 JS: I don't want to touch this one yet because of the discussion currently taking place regarding aria-interactive. 19:53:27 JS: I'm inclined to move this out a couple of months. 19:53:39 JS: And change it when and if the dust settles on the spec side. 19:53:47 JS: September 8. Any objections? 19:53:50 BG: No. 19:53:53 JD: No. 19:54:15 JS: I'll try to keep it in mind so that when things move on the spec side, I'll be able to react quickly. 19:55:22 Zakim, part 19:55:22 Zakim has left #aapi 19:56:04 RRSAgent, stop