14:52:30 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #html-a11y
14:52:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/05/21-html-a11y-irc
14:52:32 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
14:52:32 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #html-a11y
14:52:34 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 2119
14:52:34 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM scheduled to start 52 minutes ago
14:52:35 <trackbot> Meeting: HTML Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:52:35 <trackbot> Date: 21 May 2015
14:53:03 <janina> agenda?
14:53:07 <janina> Chair: Charles
14:53:07 <janina> agenda+ Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
14:53:10 <janina> agenda+ Additional agenda?
14:53:12 <janina> agenda+ Extended ARIA Roles Discussion https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/ARIAExtensions
14:53:15 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
14:53:18 <janina> agenda+ Identify Chair and Scribe for the next TF teleconference http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List
14:53:21 <janina> agenda+ be done
14:54:21 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has now started
14:54:27 <Zakim> +??P2
14:54:32 <janina>  zakim, ??P2 is me
14:54:32 <Zakim> +janina; got it
14:54:46 <janina> zakim, take up item 1
14:54:46 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Identify Scribe http://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/HTML/wiki/index.php?title=Scribe_List" taken up [from janina]
14:55:11 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
14:55:11 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
14:55:12 <Zakim> +Ivan
14:56:05 <plh> plh has joined #html-a11y
14:56:34 <janina> Yes, thanks!
14:56:43 <LJWatson> LJWatson has joined #html-a11y
14:57:54 <darobin> darobin has joined #html-a11y
14:58:14 <janina> Thanks, Robin!
14:58:59 <Zakim> +Liam
14:59:08 <Zakim> +Plh
15:00:13 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
15:00:36 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:00:49 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #html-a11y
15:00:54 <Zakim> +Tzviya
15:01:15 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
15:01:20 <tzviya> tzviya has joined #html-a11y
15:01:26 <plh> zakim, [IP is LJWatson
15:01:26 <Zakim> sorry, plh, I do not recognize a party named '[IP'
15:01:37 <plh> zakim, IPcaller is LJWatson
15:01:37 <Zakim> +LJWatson; got it
15:01:49 <plh> zakim, IPcaller .a is SteveF
15:01:49 <Zakim> I don't understand 'IPcaller .a is SteveF', plh
15:01:54 <plh> zakim, IPcaller.a is SteveF
15:01:54 <Zakim> +SteveF; got it
15:02:15 <Zakim> + +1.617.319.aaaa
15:02:26 <plh> zakim, aaaa is Mark
15:02:26 <Zakim> +Mark; got it
15:02:40 <richardschwerdtfeger> the link to the webex is not in the agena. please post it here
15:02:50 <janina> Rich, we're on Zakim 2119
15:02:56 <Zakim> +Judy
15:03:02 <LJWatson> @Rich we're using zakim not WebX
15:03:17 <MarkS_> MarkS_ has joined #html-a11y
15:03:21 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
15:03:27 <MarkS_> present+ Mark Sadecki
15:03:41 <Zakim> +Joanmarie_Diggs
15:04:01 <Zakim> +JF
15:04:28 <Zakim> + +1.609.759.aabb
15:04:33 <JF> JF has joined #html-a11y
15:04:33 <MichaelC> MichaelC has joined #html-a11y
15:04:36 <Zakim> +??P5
15:04:38 <plh> zakim, aabb is Jason
15:04:38 <Zakim> +Jason; got it
15:04:50 <Judy> [JB: We are continuing to use Zakim for this call. There will be a practice session on WebEx following this call. The message about that was from Liam on the list earlier.]
15:05:02 <ShaneM> zakim, what is the code?
15:05:02 <Zakim> the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ShaneM
15:05:04 <mgarrish> mgarrish has joined #html-a11y
15:05:09 <Zakim> +??P4
15:05:10 <Zakim> -LJWatson
15:05:13 <ShaneM> zakim, I am ??P4
15:05:13 <Zakim> +ShaneM; got it
15:05:49 <plh> plh has changed the topic to: Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-a11y/2015May/0036.html
15:05:52 <plh> agenda?
15:05:57 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:06:03 <paulc> paulc has joined #html-a11y
15:06:05 <mgarrish> zakim, IPcaller is mgarrish
15:06:05 <Zakim> +mgarrish; got it
15:06:18 <paulc> zakim, what is the code?
15:06:18 <Zakim> the conference code is 2119 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), paulc
15:06:25 <Mike5> Mike5 has joined #html-a11y
15:06:48 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
15:06:55 <paulc> zakim, [Microsoft] is me
15:06:55 <Zakim> +paulc; got it
15:06:56 <Mike5> Zakim, call Mike
15:06:57 <Zakim> ok, Mike5; the call is being made
15:06:57 <Zakim> +Mike
15:07:09 <plh> zakim, pick a victim
15:07:09 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Rich_Schwerdtfeger
15:07:17 <plh> zakim, pick a victim
15:07:17 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Mike
15:07:32 <plh> zakim, pick a victim
15:07:32 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Mike
15:07:40 <plh> zakim, pick a victim
15:07:40 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Jason
15:07:43 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:08:10 <MarkS> scribe: MarkS
15:08:22 <MarkS> zakim, take up next item
15:08:22 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Additional agenda?" taken up [from janina]
15:08:42 <plh> zakim, pick up agendum 3
15:08:42 <MarkS> PLH: Anything else to discuss today?  in addition to ARIA
15:08:43 <Zakim> I don't understand 'pick up agendum 3', plh
15:08:50 <MarkS> zakim, take up next item
15:08:50 <Zakim> agendum 2 was just opened, MarkS
15:08:52 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/ARIAExtensions
15:08:54 <MarkS> zakim, close item 2
15:08:54 <Zakim> agendum 2, Additional agenda?, closed
15:08:55 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:08:55 <Zakim> 3. Extended ARIA Roles Discussion https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/ARIAExtensions [from janina]
15:08:59 <MarkS> zakim, take up next item
15:08:59 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Extended ARIA Roles Discussion https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/ARIAExtensions" taken up [from janina]
15:09:00 <janina> zakim, close item 2
15:09:01 <Zakim> agendum 2, Additional agenda?, closed
15:09:01 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:09:01 <Zakim> 3. Extended ARIA Roles Discussion https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/ARIAExtensions [from janina]
15:09:10 <janina> zakim, take up item 3
15:09:10 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Extended ARIA Roles Discussion https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/ARIAExtensions" taken up [from janina]
15:09:28 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
15:09:31 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]
15:09:50 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
15:10:02 <darobin> Zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me
15:10:02 <Zakim> +darobin; got it
15:10:04 <MarkS> TS: several months ago, DPUB considered adding features to HTML that would improve accessibility in the context of digital publishing, much like DAISY does.
15:10:12 <MarkS> TS: data-* css, etc
15:10:42 <Zakim> -Jason
15:10:58 <MarkS> ...at TPAC, we decided to write an extension spec.  during CFC for FPWD, there were many objections, so we are considering a different path.  ARAI extensions
15:11:05 <MarkS> s/ARAI/ARIA
15:11:11 <Zakim> +Jason
15:11:16 <MarkS> ...semantic inflection for HTML
15:11:29 <janina> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/wiki/ARIAExtensions
15:11:33 <MarkS> RS: link for proposal to extend
15:12:01 <MarkS> ...aria TF met and put this proposal together.  it has been reviewed by PF. Mostly agreed with one exception
15:12:48 <MarkS> ...if you are to write an extension for ARIA, it should not become part of the non-optional parts of ARIA.  If a browser is fully compliant with 1.1, it will no longer be once an ext gets added
15:13:07 <MarkS> ...what we want to say is that anything that goes into the core, must be compliant with Accessibility API mappings
15:13:24 <MarkS> ...it would be a choice to implement them or not.  The goal is to avoid breaking accessibility with these modules
15:13:27 <ShaneM> as I proposed last night, the text for point 4 could say "Any ARIA extension specifications that have reached Recommendation status at the time the ARIA Core is revised and approved as a superseding Recommendation will be considered to be a part of ARIA Core and their non-optional components required of all ARIA conforming implementations."
15:14:13 <MarkS> ...formal mechanism, extending must come from existing taxonomy that you can inherit from.  descendants of existing role of published spec, not WD
15:14:27 <MarkS> ...new states must be coordinated with ARIA TF
15:14:46 <MarkS> ...must have API mapping and does not break accessibility, doesn't have to be for accessibility, just not break it
15:15:09 <MarkS> ...hyphenated role values acceptable dpub-glossary,
15:15:24 <MarkS> ...create a normative api mapping spec
15:15:35 <MarkS> ...demonstrate that it works with existing AT
15:15:38 <jasonjgw> jasonjgw has joined #html-a11y
15:15:40 <MarkS> ...that would be the process
15:16:13 <MarkS> ...ARIA is a cross connecting tech.  Used for accessibility, but not limited to.  allows for putting additional semantics into existing markup
15:16:23 <ivan> -> https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/dpub.html Current draft of the DPUB-ARIA terms
15:16:29 <MarkS> ...valuable to CMS, epub readers, AT
15:16:49 <MarkS> ...epub is mostly based on existing web/browser technology.
15:17:03 <MarkS> ...should improve compatiblitliy
15:17:09 <ivan> q+
15:17:39 <MarkS> PLH: SteveF?  You are working on mapping in HTML.  Can you add to this?
15:18:07 <MarkS> SF: my concern appears to be partially resolved: prefixed roles.
15:18:29 <MarkS> ...i think the existing solution is reasonable.  would mitigate issues with collisions
15:18:47 <MarkS> ...extension roles should have a prefix.  that would be OK.
15:18:52 <tzviya> q+
15:18:57 <richardschwerdtfeger> q+
15:18:59 <plh> ack ivan
15:19:40 <MarkS> IH: two issues that came up in early discussions with DPUB.  What we call hyphen space, separate of terms and the scope of what can be a value in the role attribute.  this was fuzzy
15:19:43 <janina> q+ to address in/out of scope issue
15:20:02 <ShaneM> q+ to address adoption / requirement concerns and prefixing
15:20:13 <MarkS> ...comments we received were against adding new terms, or that there would be collisions, etc.
15:20:19 <MarkS> ...the number of terms we have is significant.
15:20:35 <MarkS> ...those terms, as they are in DPUB are very important
15:20:49 <plh> ack tz
15:20:55 <MarkS> ...what happens if hyphen-namespace solution moves forward
15:21:25 <MarkS> TS: confused about what the method is for graduating terms from ext to ARIA spec
15:21:33 <ShaneM> q+ to address tzviyas question about "graduating"
15:21:51 <MarkS> ...suggest adding new terms after publication, and then a revision of aria core
15:22:02 <MarkS> ...chapter for instance
15:22:17 <MarkS> ...otherwise extension work has to be done in two places at once
15:22:18 <plh> ack rich
15:23:10 <MarkS> RS: hyphen-space is designed to avoid collisions with terms that have been in there from the start.  Should be able to name them as they want, but can't do that without namespaces
15:23:38 <MarkS> ...If we're not in the middle of CR, we should have them available immediately, and get responses from community immediately
15:24:17 <MarkS> ...important if we get the API mappings, we won't be breaking things.  We don't want to define your space.
15:24:21 <plh> ack janina
15:24:21 <Zakim> janina, you wanted to address in/out of scope issue
15:24:21 <richardschwerdtfeger> q?
15:25:03 <MarkS> JS: some of the scope challenges that we haven't addressed yet is whether it is just accessibility or not.  We're not restricting to AT use, but want to make sure new terms don't break accessibility.
15:25:28 <plh> ack shane
15:25:28 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to address adoption / requirement concerns and prefixing and to address tzviyas question about "graduating"
15:26:08 <plh> q+
15:26:23 <LJWatson> q+
15:26:26 <MarkS> SM: extension mechanisms, and how they are made part of core (or not).  prefixing, turned into not-prefixed, etc, changing the name is not as helpful as agreeing on terms that work for everyone.
15:26:37 <LJWatson> zakim, q?
15:26:37 <Zakim> I see Cynthia_Shelly, plh, LJWatson on the speaker queue
15:27:21 <MarkS> ...how we get things into core, the model I imagined was as ext are ratified, published, etc, they don't become a required part of ARIA 1.1 core, etc, but when next version comes out, the new term would be part of that spec.
15:27:40 <plh> ack Cyn
15:27:43 <MarkS> ...I think that is what implementers will care about
15:28:41 <MarkS> CS: I want to talk about ext.  I like that model that was discussed.  Also concerned about new terms in new specs.  It can be harder to track.  I conform to this, this, this, but not that, and that. etc.
15:29:01 <MarkS> ...author can know what they could accomplish in that browser
15:29:09 <ShaneM> q+ to ask cynthia about announcement
15:29:20 <MarkS> ...different than what Shane is saying.  I imagined it to be more like CSS
15:29:25 <plh> ack plh
15:29:46 <ShaneM> zakim, who is noisy?
15:29:52 <MarkS> PLH: We have a long history of using prefixes on the web, and I think long term, they don't work out.
15:29:57 <MarkS> ...CSS for example
15:29:58 <Zakim> ShaneM, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: Cynthia_Shelly (22%)
15:30:10 <MarkS> ...implementation problems
15:30:40 <plh> ack LJ
15:30:40 <MarkS> ...at the end of the day, what matters is what gets implemented. i would advise not to block on what should be part of core
15:31:16 <MarkS> LW: RE giving AT users ability to interact with DPUB.  Too many roles could decrease accessibility if too many roles are introduced
15:31:52 <MarkS> ...have we spoken to other implementers of ebook readers with their own screen readers to see if they would implement support for new roleS?
15:32:13 <MarkS> ...that seems important
15:32:14 <SteveF> q+ to ask PLH about aria-* prefixings success?
15:32:41 <ShaneM_> ShaneM_ has joined #html-a11y
15:32:47 <ivan> -> http://www.idpf.org/epub/profiles/edu/structure/ EPUB Structural semantics
15:32:53 <MarkS> TS: the terms we have discussed come from IDPF and DAISY.  So ebook publishers are plugged into these groups and are familiar with these terms
15:33:26 <MarkS> RS: IDPF, DAISY, Adobe, were all involved in EPUB, and accessibility was considered from the start
15:33:40 <MarkS> TS: we can reach out to other implementers
15:33:54 <MarkS> LW: I think it would be important to involve as many as possible.
15:33:59 <plh> ack Shaneack Shane
15:34:02 <plh> ack Shane
15:34:03 <Zakim> ShaneM, you wanted to ask cynthia about announcement
15:34:36 <plh> ack Cynthia
15:34:44 <MarkS> SM: Cynthia, you mentioned wanting extensions to be optional. If you have things that are optional, things that are portable need a mechanism to announce themselves
15:35:07 <MarkS> CS: I don't have anything in mind, but there are examples of support listings
15:35:22 <MarkS> ...it needs to be deterministic.
15:35:50 <MarkS> ...how does CSS do it?
15:35:57 <MarkS> PLH: they don't
15:36:50 <ShaneM_> I note that schema.org seems to resolve this well with prefixing
15:36:51 <MarkS> CS: I understand the market doesn't like prefixes, but certain terms have major conflicts with existing taxonomies.
15:36:59 <plh> ack Steve
15:36:59 <Zakim> SteveF, you wanted to ask PLH about aria-* prefixings success?
15:36:59 <MarkS> ...prefixing would solve that problem
15:37:03 <plh> q+
15:37:35 <MarkS> SF:  Trying to understand the issue of having a prefix and then removing it when it gets moved to "core"
15:37:47 <plh> ack plh
15:38:33 <MarkS> PLH: using x- causes problems.  solution was to put everything behind a test flag
15:38:47 <MarkS> SF: we talked about attribute names/values/roles
15:38:52 <darobin> q?
15:38:53 <darobin> q+
15:39:05 <ShaneM_> +1 that it is a TOKEN!
15:39:07 <MarkS> ...its a token, it doesn't need to represent what is exposed to the user, its just a token
15:39:15 <ivan> +1 to SteveF
15:39:47 <MarkS> ...the concept of it becoming part of the core vocab could still include the hyphen or not
15:40:00 <ShaneM_> q+ to ask about core vocabulary and prefixes
15:40:07 <plh> ack daro
15:40:58 <MarkS> RB: I wanted to point out that these are 2 diff things.  Using a prefix is probably fine, removing it later is a bad idea.  What happens is that devs want to be future proof, so they will include both dpub-foo and foo
15:41:13 <plh> ack Shane
15:41:13 <Zakim> ShaneM_, you wanted to ask about core vocabulary and prefixes
15:41:13 <MarkS> ...don't want to remove prefix.  If the prefix moves to core, that is fine.
15:41:33 <richardschwerdtfeger> +1
15:41:41 <MarkS> SM: I agree with robin on that.  we need to work out a mechanism for moving to core and what that means.
15:42:02 <MarkS> PLH: CSS doesn't have this problem.  there is not CSS core
15:42:14 <plh> s/not/no/
15:42:16 <MarkS> SM: CSS has graceful degradation,
15:42:28 <plh> ack liam
15:42:28 <Zakim> liam, you wanted to wonder if we're going down a thorny path away from what AT should do, who is helped? schema.org only works because (1) money, (2) very limited in scope
15:42:42 <MarkS> SM: it would be disasterous, not inconvenient
15:43:00 <ivan> q+
15:43:08 <richardschwerdtfeger> q+
15:43:15 <MarkS> LQ: similar to struggles in XML as well.  Worry about defining all of these roles and nobody implementing them.
15:43:57 <plh> ack ivan
15:44:00 <ShaneM_> I disagree about the scope of schema.org.  it is VAST
15:44:03 <MarkS> ...schema.org was mentioned, it is successful because it has limited scope.  And there is financial incentive to adopt.  Opposite for ARIA.  If we make it more complicated, it might have adoption problems
15:44:19 <tzviya> q+
15:44:38 <liam> [e.g. what happens if I introduce 300 prefixed terms?]
15:45:19 <SteveF> [e.g. what happens if I introduce 300 prefixed terms?] much better than 300 unprefixed terms
15:45:22 <MarkS> IH: We have to have a clear view of what it means to use new role values.  If we have new terms and DPUB reading systems use those terms for things that are not strictly accessibility issues, i.e. glossary-item, there would be a pop-up (universally beneficial) .
15:45:33 <plh> ack rich
15:45:37 <MarkS> ...this is demonstration that it is useful for providing additional structure to document.
15:46:00 <ivan> +1 to richardschwerdtfeger
15:46:29 <MarkS> RS: I would encourage things like that.  At IBM we use aria semantics to drive UI because we can tie it to CSS.  Makes code more performant.  We can work with designers to create UIs with more semantics.
15:46:43 <MarkS> ...if there is value in adding other ways to include semantic info, that is a good thing
15:46:55 <tzviya> +1 to using ARIA to make code more performant
15:47:10 <MarkS> ...this work was taken out of DAISY, which is proven.  Powerful, time-saving features.  Universally beneficial
15:47:39 <MarkS> ...ask that normative API mapping is created, to not break anything.  that is all
15:47:49 <plh> ack tz
15:48:22 <MarkS> TS: Would love to do what IBM is doing in DPUB, but can't because ARIA doesn't do what we need currently.
15:48:34 <SteveF> q+ to ask Cynthia_Shelly what the mechanism is to add abitrary role values in UIA?
15:49:07 <plh> ack Cyn
15:49:08 <MarkS> ...it will take time to implement, and we understand that we may need to include fallbacks during this time, glossary fallback to landmark for instance until support gets added.  we have to start somewhere
15:50:23 <MarkS> CS: like with IBM is doing too.  great thing to do when it works.  RE API Mappings, there is a place to put the string that is in the role attribute.  AT can get at it.  several important platform API developers are involved. good chance that going through ARIA will result in getting implementations.
15:50:45 <joanie> +1 for adding API being easy in Linux
15:50:46 <plh> ack Steve
15:50:46 <Zakim> SteveF, you wanted to ask Cynthia_Shelly what the mechanism is to add abitrary role values in UIA?
15:50:46 <MarkS> ...getting the APIs in sync with ARIA is not a difficult thing
15:50:47 <richardschwerdtfeger> q?
15:51:36 <MarkS> SF: Cynthia,  What is the mechanism for this? I think that works in IA2
15:51:48 <MarkS> CS: we have a similar method
15:52:07 <MarkS> ...if there is something in the aria that we don't know how to map, there is a mechanism for getting at it.
15:52:11 <plh> q?
15:52:45 <ivan> q+
15:53:03 <janina> q+ to ask about nonprefixed roles
15:53:17 <plh> ack ivan
15:53:22 <MarkS> RS: if we want to pull things into ARIA spec, I don't see why we can't have a mechanism for doing that.  shouldn't get hung up on whether or not if has a prefix.  Just want to say we don't want to ever remove a prefix if that is what was agreed on in the first place
15:53:27 <plh> ack janina
15:53:28 <Zakim> janina, you wanted to ask about nonprefixed roles
15:53:30 <plh> q+ ivan
15:53:30 <ivan> q+
15:53:44 <Judy> q+
15:54:12 <SteveF> q+ to ask about role value prefixing
15:54:24 <MarkS> JS: We should also discuss about the possibility of using non-prefixed terms.  Want to keep this convo going.   Concern that there are some terms proposed that are way too general and we do not want them in no-prefixed space.  want to make sure that doesn't become a pattern.
15:54:38 <plh> ack Cyn
15:54:39 <ShaneM_> +1 that some things will go in without prefixes
15:55:05 <MarkS> CS: we need to be careful with general purpose terms.  checked/aria-checked for example.
15:55:21 <plh> ack ivan
15:55:21 <MarkS> ...they behave differently and that is bad
15:55:25 <ShaneM> the checked thing is a state, not a role name
15:55:31 <ivan> FPWD: https://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/dpub.html
15:56:10 <SteveF> +1 to ivan's proposal
15:56:21 <MarkS> IH: how about if we take the DPUB document, change it for each of the terms to hyphen space, then we publish as FPWD.  IF during the discussion some should be general enough to move into ARIA 1.1, we can do it.
15:56:46 <ShaneM> +1 except not MOVED into aria 1.1.  Named without a hyphen.  Or possibly both.  Some thigns are unprefixed but in the extension spec and not part of core immediately.
15:56:47 <MarkS> ...very bad message if during dev of EPUB three there is a delay because of this
15:56:51 <plh> ack Judy
15:56:55 <tzviya> +1 Ivan's proposal
15:57:18 <MarkS> JB: anyone on the call that hasn't spoken up that would like to add something?
15:57:28 <plh> ack Steve
15:57:28 <Zakim> SteveF, you wanted to ask about role value prefixing
15:57:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> +1 to Ivan
15:58:03 <JF> Q+
15:58:18 <MarkS> JS: Not saying no, but I'm wondering if this is the best way forward, flagging the terms that have general applicability.
15:58:42 <MarkS> ...i think in the past we have initially thought terms that were generally applicable were not.
15:58:45 <ivan> q+
15:58:51 <MarkS> ...we may want to call them out in the beginning
15:59:30 <Zakim> -Cynthia_Shelly
15:59:35 <plh> zakim, close the queue
15:59:35 <Zakim> ok, plh, the speaker queue is closed
15:59:46 <plh> q- ivan
15:59:49 <LJWatson> +1 to Ivan's suggestion of moving forward in hyphen-space.
15:59:52 <plh> ack JF
15:59:56 <MarkS> IH: my proposal would be the other way around.  Lots of concern about global or not.  We define all in namespace by default.  Then we can decide during publication process if any should be general non-prefixed terms
16:00:23 <MarkS> JF: This sounds like an XML namespace reprise. I think feedback from browser vendors would be very valuable here.
16:00:55 <SteveF> +1 to ivan
16:00:55 <MarkS> IH: we are hyphenating the values, different than XML
16:00:56 <richardschwerdtfeger> q+
16:01:32 <MarkS> RS: I have to run this proposal through the ARIA TF. I will bring it up today on the call. I think this is a good way forward.  We want to show support for moving forward.
16:01:52 <MarkS> rrsagent, make minutes
16:01:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/21-html-a11y-minutes.html MarkS
16:01:53 <Zakim> -ShaneM
16:01:59 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
16:02:01 <Zakim> -mgarrish
16:02:03 <Zakim> -Ivan
16:02:04 <Zakim> -darobin
16:02:04 <Zakim> -Plh
16:02:05 <Zakim> -Joanmarie_Diggs
16:02:05 <Zakim> -janina
16:02:06 <Zakim> -Judy
16:02:06 <Zakim> -JF
16:02:07 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
16:02:07 <Zakim> -Tzviya
16:02:08 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
16:02:08 <Zakim> -Jason
16:02:13 <Zakim> -SteveF
16:02:13 <Zakim> -Liam
16:02:15 <Zakim> -Mark
16:02:27 <MarkS> zakim, who is on the phone
16:02:27 <Zakim> I don't understand 'who is on the phone', MarkS
16:02:35 <MarkS> zakim, who is here
16:02:35 <Zakim> MarkS, you need to end that query with '?'
16:02:39 <MarkS> zakim, who is here?
16:02:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see paulc, Mike
16:02:41 <Zakim> On IRC I see ShaneM, Mike5, MichaelC, JF, tzviya, richardschwerdtfeger, darobin, plh, Zakim, RRSAgent, SteveF, Judy, newtron, IanPouncey, cabanier, joanie, MarkS, janina, liam,
16:02:41 <Zakim> ... sivoais, trackbot
16:02:52 <MarkS> zakim, drop paulc
16:02:52 <Zakim> paulc is being disconnected
16:02:54 <Zakim> -paulc
16:03:00 <MarkS> zakim, drop Mike
16:03:00 <Zakim> Mike is being disconnected
16:03:01 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(HTML TF)10:00AM has ended
16:03:01 <Zakim> Attendees were janina, Ivan, Liam, Plh, Cynthia_Shelly, Tzviya, LJWatson, SteveF, +1.617.319.aaaa, Mark, Judy, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Joanmarie_Diggs, JF, +1.609.759.aabb,
16:03:01 <Zakim> ... Michael_Cooper, Jason, ShaneM, mgarrish, paulc, Mike, [IPcaller], darobin
16:03:04 <MarkS> rrsagent, make minutes
16:03:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/21-html-a11y-minutes.html MarkS
17:02:00 <tzviya> tzviya has joined #html-a11y
17:29:06 <Judy> Judy has joined #html-a11y
18:35:21 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #html-a11y