20:01:27 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webfonts
20:01:27 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/05/20-webfonts-irc
20:01:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
20:01:29 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #webfonts
20:01:31 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be 3668
20:01:31 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see IA_Fonts()4:00PM scheduled to start now
20:01:32 <trackbot> Meeting: WebFonts Working Group Teleconference
20:01:32 <trackbot> Date: 20 May 2015
20:02:17 <Vlad> zakim, who is here?
20:02:17 <Zakim> IA_Fonts()4:00PM has not yet started, Vlad
20:02:18 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Vlad, cosimolupo, RSheeter, Ken_Lunde__Adobe_, sergeym, Khaled, trackbot
20:02:26 <Vlad> zakim, this is 3668
20:02:26 <Zakim> ok, Vlad; that matches IA_Fonts()4:00PM
20:02:29 <Vlad> zakim, who is here?
20:02:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.408.927.aaaa, +1.650.214.aabb, [Microsoft], Vlad
20:02:31 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Vlad, cosimolupo, RSheeter, Ken_Lunde__Adobe_, sergeym, Khaled, trackbot
20:02:34 <jfkthame> jfkthame has joined #webfonts
20:03:21 <Zakim> +jfkthame
20:03:27 <Zakim> + +1.650.352.aacc
20:04:31 <Vlad> zakim, aaaa is Ken_Lunde__Adobe_
20:04:31 <Zakim> +Ken_Lunde__Adobe_; got it
20:05:04 <Vlad> zakim, aabb is kuettel+RSHeeter
20:05:04 <Zakim> +kuettel+RSHeeter; got it
20:05:12 <RSheeter> Khaled, did you get an invite to a hangout on your gmail?
20:05:46 <Vlad> zakim, aacc is Behdad
20:05:46 <Zakim> +Behdad; got it
20:06:42 <Vlad> Regrets: John Hudson, Chris Lilley
20:07:10 <kuettel> kuettel has joined #webfonts
20:07:57 <Vlad> Topic: action items
20:08:48 <Vlad> https://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/open
20:11:43 <Vlad> New topic: CFF support in WOFF2
20:11:52 <Zakim> -kuettel+RSHeeter
20:14:09 <Zakim> + +1.650.253.aadd
20:14:35 <Zakim> - +1.650.253.aadd
20:15:31 <Zakim> + +1.650.253.aaee
20:17:03 <RSheeter> Zakim, aaee is kuettel+RSheeter
20:17:03 <Zakim> +kuettel+RSheeter; got it
20:17:20 <RSheeter> scribenick: RSheeter
20:19:02 <RSheeter> (discussion of ability to optimize cff)
20:20:58 <RSheeter> Vlad: if de-subroutinization allows better compression with brotli, would we have to re-sub on receiving end Jungshik: no, but memory use might be greater. Perhaps faster to use as well.
20:22:16 <RSheeter> Vlad: summary, some parts can be just dumped during encoding to save bytes. Less constraints here (server/fast wkstn).
20:23:11 <RSheeter> Vlad: impact on decoder is of greater concern. Eg the memory use cost in return for smaller compressed file.
20:23:47 <RSheeter> Ken: concur we should not re-subroutinize when decoding
20:24:39 <RSheeter> Ken: could be ~10% increase in filesize without re-sub. Also re-sub is *very* slow [potentially hours]. And lots of memory used.
20:25:52 <RSheeter> (looking for link to doc about gains from de-sub)
20:26:13 <Vlad> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1jvJ3xUOg6rySiAtiXDvAf7Du43XytEBFJCr5YO12F7c/edit#gid=0
20:30:02 <RSheeter> Vlad: So 5-10% filesize reduction in output woff2 if we desub. Is it worth adding as a mandatory step? (at cost of larger decompressed file)
20:30:20 <RSheeter> Behdad: why Mandatory?
20:30:58 <RSheeter> jfkthame: we shouldn't make this mandatory
20:33:27 <Ken_Lunde__Adobe_> I agree that desubroutinized CFFs should not be mandatory.
20:33:38 <RSheeter> Vlad: agree; doesn't have to be normative. Maybe add a note to spec that describes tradeoffs of doing this but don't recommend; just informative.
20:34:15 <RSheeter> Behdad: just note it in the spec
20:34:52 <RSheeter> action to vlad Add description of tradeoffs in cff preprocessing (desub, etc)
20:34:52 <trackbot> Error finding 'to'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/users>.
20:34:53 <Zakim> +??P14
20:35:02 <RSheeter> action vlad Add description of tradeoffs in cff preprocessing (desub, etc)
20:35:02 <trackbot> Created ACTION-175 - Add description of tradeoffs in cff preprocessing (desub, etc) [on Vladimir Levantovsky - due 2015-05-27].
20:35:37 <Zakim> -??P14
20:35:55 <RSheeter> Welcome mystery guest!
20:36:23 <cosimolupo> sorry the sip phone is not working.. didn't mean to disturb, please go on.
20:36:36 <RSheeter> Topic: hmtx preprocessing
20:37:17 <RSheeter> Behdad: if lsb is same as glyf we can drop it and save bytes. Easy to rebuild hmtx back from glyf. Low complexity.
20:37:51 <RSheeter> Vlad: won't somebody think of the swashes?!
20:38:37 <RSheeter> jfkthame: negative lsb would just be reflected in x-min of bbox
20:39:33 <RSheeter> Behdad: lsb allows you to move glyf without moving points. Usually lsb == x-min. If the same for all glyfs we can just drop it. Estimated 90%+ use same value.
20:40:45 <RSheeter> Behdad: That is, of 10 fonts 9 will have *all* lsb == x-min.
20:41:52 <RSheeter> Vlad: seems easy; just need to know how to tell decoder it was dropped.
20:43:36 <RSheeter> (clarification that there is no per-table transform marker but we do have reserved bits that could be used for flags)
20:45:00 <RSheeter> Behdad: maybe we should test run htmx mangling over a test corpus
20:45:37 <RSheeter> Vlad: Can we test with Google Fonts? [yes]
20:46:04 <RSheeter> action rsheeter Test hmtx transformation over Google Fonts corpus (how many lsb == x-min for all glyfs, what savings)
20:46:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-176 - Test hmtx transformation over google fonts corpus (how many lsb == x-min for all glyfs, what savings) [on Roderick Sheeter - due 2015-05-27].
20:47:14 <Vlad> Vlad has joined #webfonts
20:47:43 <RSheeter> Topic: Action Items
20:47:51 <Zakim> -Behdad
20:47:56 <Vlad> Topic: Action items
20:48:23 <Vlad> https://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/open
20:48:57 <RSheeter> Vlad: Did you read my diff?
20:49:22 <RSheeter> close action-173
20:49:23 <trackbot> Closed action-173.
20:49:34 <RSheeter> action-116
20:49:34 <trackbot> action-116 -- David Kuettel to Decoder performance analysis on mobile devices -- due 2015-04-22 -- OPEN
20:49:34 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/116
20:49:46 <RSheeter> Vlad: summarize your findings
20:51:58 <RSheeter> Kuettel: Chrome instrumented. Got data. Compression team hard at work improving numbers. Caveat: environment not entirely controlled (wild users). WOFF1 could be optimistic in some cases.
20:52:04 <RSheeter> [we may have lost audio]
20:52:24 <Zakim> +??P10
20:52:38 <Zakim> -kuettel+RSheeter
20:52:55 <RSheeter> Zakim, ??P10 is kuettel+RSheeter
20:52:55 <Zakim> +kuettel+RSheeter; got it
20:53:09 <RSheeter> unfortunately we have now disconnected Khaled :(
20:56:14 <RSheeter> Vlad: can we measure how smaller file vs slower decode might play out (eg are we ahead)?
20:56:20 <RSheeter> Kuettel: will ping Kenji
20:56:41 <RSheeter> (exploration of further testing, ways to get overall latency impact)
20:58:11 <RSheeter> action-148
20:58:11 <trackbot> action-148 -- Vladimir Levantovsky to Review and edit the conformance test for extraneous data -- due 2015-05-06 -- OPEN
20:58:11 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/148
20:58:33 <RSheeter> action-168
20:58:33 <trackbot> action-168 -- Roderick Sheeter to Measure RAM usage for woff2 vs. woff1 -- due 2015-05-13 -- OPEN
20:58:33 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Fonts/WG/track/actions/168
20:59:08 <RSheeter> Vlad: Everyone please review all normative statements to ensure they are testable
20:59:41 <RSheeter> Victory declared over action items
20:59:44 <jdaggett> jdaggett has joined #webfonts
20:59:52 <RSheeter> Topic: CTS
20:59:57 <RSheeter> [more or less out of time]
21:00:36 <RSheeter> Vlad: Ken want to come to Boston?
21:00:46 <RSheeter> Ken: bit difficult
21:01:37 <RSheeter> [next f2f after Boston will be ATypI. Come one, come all]
21:02:11 <RSheeter> Ken: Maybe David Lemon could come to atypi f2f
21:02:41 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
21:03:37 <RSheeter> zakim, list attendees
21:03:37 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.408.927.aaaa, +1.650.214.aabb, [Microsoft], Vlad, jfkthame, +1.650.352.aacc, Ken_Lunde__Adobe_, kuettel+RSHeeter, Behdad,
21:03:40 <Zakim> ... +1.650.253.aadd, +1.650.253.aaee
21:03:47 <RSheeter> rrsagent, make minutes
21:03:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/20-webfonts-minutes.html RSheeter
21:03:54 <Zakim> -Ken_Lunde__Adobe_
21:03:56 <Zakim> -Vlad
21:03:58 <Zakim> -jfkthame
21:04:00 <Zakim> -kuettel+RSheeter
21:04:00 <Zakim> IA_Fonts()4:00PM has ended
21:04:00 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.408.927.aaaa, +1.650.214.aabb, [Microsoft], Vlad, jfkthame, +1.650.352.aacc, Ken_Lunde__Adobe_, kuettel+RSHeeter, Behdad, +1.650.253.aadd, +1.650.253.aaee
23:51:41 <jdaggett> jdaggett has joined #webfonts