14:29:18 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
14:29:18 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/05/19-wai-wcag-irc
14:29:20 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:29:20 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #wai-wcag
14:29:22 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
14:29:22 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 31 minutes
14:29:23 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
14:29:23 <trackbot> Date: 19 May 2015
14:29:32 <Kenny> zakim, agenda?
14:29:33 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
14:30:17 <Joshue> zakim, agenda?
14:30:17 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
14:31:25 <Joshue> agenda + Update on QuickRef refresh http://w3c.github.io/wai-wcag-quickref/
14:31:39 <Joshue> agenda+ Continuation of survey from last week [item 3 and update/discussion
14:31:39 <Joshue> on new suggested consensus process]
14:31:39 <Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20150512Misc/
14:31:50 <Joshue> agenda+ Reviewing Post-WCAG 2 issues:
14:31:50 <Joshue> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Post_WCAG_2_Issues_Sorted
14:32:00 <Joshue> Chair: Joshue
14:53:37 <adam_solomon> adam_solomon has joined #wai-wcag
14:56:26 <Makoto> Makoto has joined #wai-wcag
14:58:07 <AWK> AWK has joined #wai-wcag
15:00:44 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has now started
15:00:51 <AWK> Zakim, agenda?
15:00:51 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
15:00:53 <Zakim> 1. Update on QuickRef refresh http://w3c.github.io/wai-wcag-quickref/ [from Joshue]
15:00:53 <Zakim> 2. Continuation of survey from last week [item 3 and update/discussion [from Joshue]
15:00:53 <Zakim> 3. Reviewing Post-WCAG 2 issues: [from Joshue]
15:01:02 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
15:01:05 <AWK> Agenda+ WCAG Charter
15:01:08 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
15:01:10 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has ended
15:01:10 <Zakim> Attendees were David_MacDonald
15:01:25 <AWK> Chair: Joshue
15:01:48 <David> David has joined #wai-wcag
15:01:56 <Joshue> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:01:56 <Zakim> apparently WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has ended, Joshue
15:01:58 <Zakim> On IRC I see David, AWK, Makoto, adam_solomon, Zakim, RRSAgent, Joshue, yatil, MichaelC, Kenny, trackbot
15:02:35 <Mike_Elledge> Mike_Elledge has joined #wai-wcag
15:02:53 <Joshue> Regrets+ Moe, Kathy, Christophe
15:02:55 <AWK> trackbot, draft minutes
15:02:55 <trackbot> Sorry, AWK, I don't understand 'trackbot, draft minutes'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
15:03:04 <AWK> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:03:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/19-wai-wcag-minutes.html AWK
15:03:07 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has now started
15:03:10 <yatil> Zakim, call EricE-Skype
15:03:10 <Zakim> ok, yatil; the call is being made
15:03:12 <laura> laura has joined #wai-wcag
15:03:13 <Joshue> Scribe: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
15:03:14 <Zakim> + +1.313.390.aaaa
15:03:15 <_6665> _6665 has joined #wai-wcag
15:03:38 <Zakim> - +1.313.390.aaaa
15:03:39 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has ended
15:03:39 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.313.390.aaaa
15:03:44 <Louis_Cheng> Louis_Cheng has joined #wai-wcag
15:03:52 <AWK> Present AWK
15:04:06 <AWK> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:04:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/19-wai-wcag-minutes.html AWK
15:04:22 <Loretta> Loretta has joined #wai-wcag
15:04:49 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #wai-wcag
15:05:15 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
15:05:27 <AWK> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:05:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/19-wai-wcag-minutes.html AWK
15:05:47 <adam_solomon> i just joined the webex
15:05:54 <Mike_Elledge> Yep--getting into webex
15:06:10 <laura> I’m on webex too.
15:06:10 <yatil> present+ EricE
15:06:48 <AWK> Present: AWK
15:06:53 <Kenny> present+ Kenny
15:06:59 <yatil> present+ EricE
15:07:13 <AWK> Present: AWK
15:07:24 <AWK> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:07:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/19-wai-wcag-minutes.html AWK
15:07:59 <AWK> Present+ EricE, Kenny, David_MacDonald
15:09:06 <AWK> Present+ Joshue, AWK, MichaelC, marcjohlic, adam_solomon, Ryladog, Daniel_Frank
15:09:09 <AWK> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:09:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/19-wai-wcag-minutes.html AWK
15:10:37 <David> scribe: David
15:10:56 <David> Zakim, take up item 1
15:10:56 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Update on QuickRef refresh http://w3c.github.io/wai-wcag-quickref/" taken up [from Joshue]
15:11:01 <laura> Present+ Laura_Carlson
15:11:03 <Daniel> Daniel has joined #wai-wcag
15:12:12 <David> At Accessu last week in Text... users wanted more concrete ajd to the point. Collected two full days of user feedback. Not format UT but got lots of first impressions.
15:12:19 <yatil> http://www.w3.org/mid/0C5983EB-B7B4-4026-99DF-EB6606CE75AF@w3.org
15:12:35 <AWK> Present+: Loretta, Louis_Cheng, Makoto_Ueki, Mike_Elledge
15:12:56 <Joshue> q?
15:13:17 <David> Eric: Link above has all feedback http://www.w3.org/mid/0C5983EB-B7B4-4026-99DF-EB6606CE75AF@w3.org want more fine grain task basted searches... want to find all techniques for images etc.
15:13:17 <Joshue> s/format/formal
15:13:28 <David> Eric: Want tagging to do this
15:13:34 <Joshue> s/basted/based
15:14:26 <David> eric: Want filtering inside SC, don't want timed based images techniques... should hide those if we look for images... it's out of scope now but possible future enhancements
15:15:22 <Kenny> s/Text/Texas
15:15:44 <David> Eric: information not grouped for them... contrast requirements One is AA one is AAA ... why are those so far appart..the tagging approach we can
15:15:48 <David> fix that
15:16:39 <David> Eric: Quite reasonable to do that.... WG should understand techniques that don't have content... also many people don't know how techniques relate to guidelines
15:16:49 <Joshue> q?
15:17:00 <David> ERIC: May want to future fix WCAG to address these...
15:18:10 <David> Eric: Feedback haven't got our users rightin the first place. Some wrong assumptions.... People want to go from the problems out and work back to the SC not Vice Versa
15:19:45 <Joshue> q?
15:19:45 <AWK> q+
15:20:04 <Joshue> DmacD: Will you be providing us with the comments that you got on WCAG?
15:20:32 <David> Michael: Everyone should make sure they don't use auto gain on WEBEX
15:20:35 <AWK> ack me
15:20:38 <Joshue> ack awk
15:20:52 <Joshue> zakim, agenda?
15:20:52 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
15:20:53 <Zakim> 1. Update on QuickRef refresh http://w3c.github.io/wai-wcag-quickref/ [from Joshue]
15:20:53 <Zakim> 2. Continuation of survey from last week [item 3 and update/discussion [from Joshue]
15:20:53 <Zakim> 3. Reviewing Post-WCAG 2 issues: [from Joshue]
15:20:53 <Zakim> 4. WCAG Charter [from AWK]
15:20:59 <David> Eric: People liked it but we do need to revisit our design of the quickref...
15:21:42 <Joshue> q+
15:21:52 <Joshue> ack me
15:22:08 <David> Eric: I don't think feedback should need to fix the placement of the SC in the standard
15:22:37 <David> Josh: Do you think that problem based approach will cause redesign...
15:23:11 <David> Eric: Thinking of having both task based and SC based organization
15:23:36 <David> zakim, next item
15:23:36 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Continuation of survey from last week [item 3 and update/discussion" taken up [from Joshue]
15:24:33 <Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20150512Misc/results
15:24:41 <David> Josh: We need to do Issue 89
15:24:50 <Joshue> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/86#issuecomment-99463886
15:25:05 <Daniel> AWK The overview pane on the left -- text overlaps the content in the right pane, in Safari
15:25:17 <David> Third party content
15:26:41 <Joshue> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/69#issuecomment-87877885
15:27:42 <AWK> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2015AprJun/0137.html
15:29:01 <AWK> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/69
15:30:37 <David> AWK: Gregg has selected a good response similar, but more detailed... we can decide which is better...
15:30:54 <David> This is about flash requirements
15:31:13 <Joshue> q?
15:33:03 <David> AWK: Do we want to add Gregg's language to the understanding?
15:35:58 <David> AWK: a  couple of grammar corrections to Gregg's text https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2015AprJun/0137.html we can do that editorially and add to understanding. That's my recommendations
15:36:08 <David> David: +1
15:36:16 <Joshue> q?
15:36:29 <laura> +1 with the  couple of grammar corrections
15:37:02 <David> AWK, I think we can close the loop as soon as we do Pull request... then we'll finalize with group
15:37:38 <Joshue>  Issue 89: Scope of "Third Party Content"
15:37:40 <laura> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/89
15:37:47 <Joshue> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/89
15:38:34 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
15:39:02 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
15:39:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/19-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
15:40:04 <jamesn> present+ James_Nurthen
15:40:30 <David> Makoto: If they can't make the content conform, they would make a conformance claim. If they can't then a statement of partial conformance would be made which is not conformance
15:40:55 <Joshue> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/308
15:41:04 <David> AWK: It is qualified non-conformance
15:41:44 <Makoto> http://www.w3.org/TR/2015/NOTE-WCAG20-TECHS-20150226/F3
15:42:01 <Joshue> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Understanding_Partial_Conformance_-_Third_Party_Content
15:42:06 <David> Loretta: Makoto do you think that there is a WCAG issue around images fading
15:42:19 <David> Makoto: Failure 3 under 1.1.1
15:42:23 <Joshue> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/F3.html
15:42:53 <David> :)
15:45:37 <Joshue> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:45:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/19-wai-wcag-minutes.html Joshue
15:45:53 <Joshue> q?
15:46:28 <David> Michael: If 3rd party content fails, it often doesn't affect the rest of content... want to make clear... in response... however there are the non-interferance conformance reauirements... 2.2.2... pause... flassh etch
15:47:16 <David> Loretta: Wonder if we made a mistake to allow pzrtial conformance
15:49:28 <David> Michael: It was about mashup sites, and active participants...
15:50:27 <David> wanted to be able to claim some sort of conformance for the work they have done... to get SOME credit for the work they've done on accessibioity even if some 3rd party
15:50:49 <David> Laura: There are anumber of law suits about third party.
15:51:11 <laura> When an author makes a decision to use a third party implementation, they should choose products that meet accessibility requirements.
15:51:45 <David> Laura: Recommend the following: When an author makes a decision to use a third party implementation, they should choose products that meet accessibility requirements.
15:51:54 <Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/20150512Misc/results
15:52:11 <Joshue> http://www.ada.gov/madison_co_ny_pca/madison_co_ny_sa.html
15:52:31 <marcjohlic> +1
15:52:38 <Joshue> +1 to Laura response
15:53:09 <David> David: Friendly amendment for WCAG: When an author makes a decision to use a third party implementation, they should choose products that conform to WCAG requirements.
15:53:43 <laura> +1
15:53:58 <Ryladog> +1
15:54:25 <Daniel> +1
15:54:57 <David> Joshue: Updated WIKI: https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Understanding_Partial_Conformance_-_Third_Party_Content
15:56:08 <David> David: who will not be able to access this page.   perhaps make this "who will not be able to access some of the content on this page.
15:56:44 <Mike_Elledge> +1
15:56:46 <David> RESOLUTION: Acceoted as amended
15:57:23 <David> s/Acceoted/Accepted
15:57:52 <Makoto>  "Filtering third third party content so that only conforming content is allowed could help raise the bar. "
15:59:51 <AWK> Only allowing third party content that is conforming will improve accessibility.
16:01:03 <AWK> q+
16:01:04 <David> David: Hanging gerund...Filtering
16:01:20 <Ryladog> +1
16:01:39 <David> AWK: Only allowing third party content that is conforming will improve accessibility.
16:01:49 <Joshue> +1 to AWKs edit
16:01:54 <Joshue> q?
16:02:35 <Makoto> +1 to Andrew's edit
16:02:44 <AWK> q+
16:03:42 <David> James: Not possible to filter... because can't automatically check for WCAG conformance in  order to filter
16:04:34 <David> James: The timeliness of Twitter is what it makes it relevant. Can't check it in real time
16:04:44 <Joshue> q?
16:04:47 <Joshue> ack awk
16:05:06 <AWK> In practice, it is possible to claim conformance for web pages that contain third party content, but only allowing third party content that is conforming will improve accessibility.
16:07:17 <David> AWK: In practice, it is possible to claim conformance for web pages that contain third party content, but only if that content conforms. Allowing third party content that is conforming will improve accessibility.
16:09:38 <AWK> In practice, it is possible to claim conformance for web pages that contain third party content. Sites that require third party content to conform will improve accessibility.
16:11:26 <David> David: Just use this instead.  Sites that require third party content to conform will improve accessibility.
16:12:04 <AWK> q+
16:12:20 <Joshue> ack awk
16:15:29 <David> David: Can we just remove this paragraph "In practice, it is possible to claim conformance for web pages that contain third party content. Sites that require third party content to conform will improve accessibility. A platform or tool may provide guidance for how to address conformance problems when including it in another web page. Only allowing third party content that is conforming will...
16:15:31 <David> ...improve accessibility. "
16:20:04 <Makoto> How about this? "In practice, it is possible to claim conformance for web pages that contain third party content. Using third party content that conform  to WCAG will improve accessibility. A platform or tool may provide guidance for how to address conformance problems when including it in another web page."
16:22:23 <Joshue> +1
16:22:26 <Mike_Elledge> +1
16:22:27 <Louis_Cheng> +1
16:22:28 <yatil> +1
16:22:28 <laura> +1
16:22:29 <Ryladog> +1
16:22:54 <David> RESOLUTION: Accept Andrew's alternate version of statement of partial conformance clarification https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Understanding_Partial_Conformance_-_Third_Party_Content
16:23:21 <AWK> Zakim, next item
16:23:21 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Reviewing Post-WCAG 2 issues:" taken up [from Joshue]
16:23:29 <AWK> Zakim, take up item 4
16:23:29 <Zakim> agendum 4. "WCAG Charter" taken up [from AWK]
16:23:47 <AWK> http://www.w3.org/2015/04/draft-wcag-charter
16:26:13 <Ryladog> q+
16:27:10 <Joshue> ack ryla
16:30:38 <Ryladog> q+
16:32:58 <Joshue> ack ryla
16:35:20 <Ryladog> q+
16:35:43 <Joshue> q?
16:35:47 <Joshue> ack ryla
16:40:28 <Joshue> q?
16:45:16 <laura> Present+: Laura
16:45:22 <Mike_Elledge> Bye!
16:45:24 <laura> Bye
16:45:26 <Kenny> bye
16:45:34 <Makoto> Bye
16:46:47 <David> David: Capturing last conversations before end of call, David Concerned that not publishing in TR space will reduce the authority of the techniques. Particularly concerned  about faioures which carry more weight
16:47:14 <David> Katie: Also concerned if the failures lose some of their authority, perhaps leave them in TR
16:49:01 <David> Michael: The wording of the charter is an OR statement: Understanding WCAG 2.0, to be published as a W3C Working Group Note or as a curated resource of the Working Group. Understanding WCAG 2.0 explains the intent of each Success Criterion and links to known sufficient techniques, both general and technology-specific; " If we decide thqt it is not the best path then we can proceed with TR as...
16:49:03 <David> ...before
16:50:08 <David> Michael: the model we were thinking about was that we would publish an index to TR and the links would point to the currated space
16:51:15 <David> Michael: But it was really Andrew, Joshue and myself brainstorming a way to make the publishing cycle more streamlined. If we find that their are weighty considerations for TR then we'll have to look at those
16:52:32 <David> David: So we are not deciding now to bypass TR space for the body of the techniques, we are just giving ourselves that option...?
16:53:40 <David> Michael: We could create a review by the public space into our new process even if they aren't in the TR space.
16:54:14 <David> s/faioures/failures
16:55:55 <David> Michael: Right, the charter gives us the option to investigate this process, it does not decide that we will pursue this. There will need to be discussion and group consensus to move out of TR space for techniques.
16:57:25 <David> Zakim, list attendees
16:57:25 <Zakim> sorry, David, I don't know what conference this is
16:57:44 <David> zakim, bye
16:57:44 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wai-wcag
16:58:04 <David> rrsagent, make log publi
16:58:32 <David> rrsagent, make log public
16:58:50 <David> rrsagent, make minutes
16:58:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/19-wai-wcag-minutes.html David