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14:59:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/05/19-hcls-irc
14:59:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
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14:59:48 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HCLS
14:59:48 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see SW_HCLS()11:00AM already started
14:59:49 <trackbot> Meeting: Semantic Web Health Care and Life Sciences Interest Group Teleconference
14:59:49 <trackbot> Date: 19 May 2015
14:59:54 <Zakim> + +1.510.418.aabb
15:00:10 <Zakim> +DBooth
15:00:40 <dbooth> zakim, aabb is PeterHendler
15:00:40 <Zakim> +PeterHendler; got it
15:00:46 <dbooth> zakim, who is here?
15:00:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.978.794.aaaa, PeterHendler, DBooth
15:00:48 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, trackbot, dbooth, Tony, cloudcell_, ericP
15:00:53 <dbooth> zakim, aaaa is Tony
15:00:53 <Zakim> +Tony; got it
15:04:00 <dbooth> Topic: Side-by-side example of two FHIR RDF approaches (Tony Mallia)
15:04:35 <dbooth> http://wiki.hl7.org/images/2/25/FHIR_RDF_Sample_side_by_side_comparisons.pdf
15:04:53 <rhausam> rhausam has joined #HCLS
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15:06:06 <dbooth> http://wiki.hl7.org/images/2/25/FHIR_RDF_Sample_side_by_side_comparisons.pdf
15:06:58 <vassil> vassil has joined #hcls
15:07:36 <Zakim> + +1.801.949.aacc
15:08:02 <dbooth> zakim, aacc is rhausam
15:08:02 <Zakim> +rhausam; got it
15:08:09 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Marc_Twagirumukiza has joined #HCLS
15:08:40 <Zakim> +??P2
15:09:04 <dbooth> zakim ??P2 is Marc
15:09:10 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Zakim ??P2 is Marc_Twagirumukiza
15:09:21 <Zakim> + +1.608.628.aadd
15:09:27 <dbooth> zakim, ??P2 is Marc_Twagirumukiza
15:09:28 <Zakim> +Marc_Twagirumukiza; got it
15:09:47 <vassil> zakim, aadd is vassil
15:09:47 <Zakim> +vassil; got it
15:11:06 <dbooth> zakim, who is here?
15:11:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see Tony, PeterHendler, DBooth, rhausam, Marc_Twagirumukiza, vassil
15:11:09 <Zakim> On IRC I see Marc_Twagirumukiza, vassil, AndroUser, rhausam, Zakim, RRSAgent, trackbot, dbooth, Tony, cloudcell_, ericP
15:11:45 <dbooth> scribe: rhausam
15:12:06 <dbooth> http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=File:FHIR_RDF_Sample_side_by_side_comparisons.pdf
15:12:17 <dbooth> http://wiki.hl7.org/images/2/25/FHIR_RDF_Sample_side_by_side_comparisons.pdf
15:12:52 <rhausam> rob: brief report from Paris meeting - will do full de-briefing next time
15:12:59 <rhausam> david: will go to Tony's side by side comparison
15:13:58 <rhausam> tony: first section about datatypes
15:15:10 <rhausam> tony: Github and subgroup examles for Coding
15:15:36 <dbooth> line 25 where it says ".coding" that will be a data-instance-specific URI?
15:16:03 <dbooth> sorry, the .coding is a predicate
15:16:04 <Zakim> +Kerstin_Forsberg
15:16:43 <rhausam> tony: blank nodes nested inside .coding
15:17:25 <dbooth> zakim, who is making noise?
15:17:36 <Zakim> dbooth, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Tony (90%), PeterHendler (9%), DBooth (50%), Kerstin_Forsberg (14%)
15:17:41 <rhausam> tony: complex types are represented as blank nodes - still problems with processing FHIR special data types
15:17:45 <dbooth> zakim, who is making noise?
15:17:56 <Zakim> dbooth, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Tony (89%), PeterHendler (4%), DBooth (39%), rhausam (9%), Kerstin_Forsberg (44%)
15:18:04 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> q+
15:18:21 <dbooth> ack Marc
15:19:02 <rhausam> marc: question about data types
15:19:02 <dbooth> marc: datatype for line 27?   how to determine them?
15:19:24 <rhausam> tony: base ontology done - has all of the data types - in FHIR spec
15:19:32 <dbooth> tony: they're defined in FHIR spec.
15:20:06 <rhausam> tony: some of the reasoners don't like the special data types - HermiT is OK
15:20:07 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> q-
15:21:46 <rhausam> tony: section 2 - external binding of data type to terminology - example from Grahame
15:22:36 <rhausam> tony: Grahame added extension for 'concept'
15:22:57 <dbooth> line 88 has added ex:concept loinc:54411-4;
15:23:07 <rhausam> tony: this extension is tough to process
15:25:09 <rhausam> tony: section 2.2.3 (125-140) - the Coding blank node is replaced by a singleton term individual
15:26:10 <dbooth> zakim, who is making noise?
15:26:20 <Zakim> dbooth, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Tony (70%), PeterHendler (5%), DBooth (35%), Kerstin_Forsberg (58%)
15:26:55 <rhausam> tony: instance which is called http://loinc.org/54411 - 4 which is a pun for the LOINC class - also an instance of Coding
15:28:19 <rhausam> tony: interesting thing about the pun - when you put the label on the class it also applies that label back to the instance
15:29:13 <rhausam> tony: if you import the terminology you will see the label displayed in Protege - advantage of the pun
15:29:57 <rhausam> peter: text on line 132 does not match the text on line 139
15:30:44 <rhausam> tony: that is correct - there are multiple Codings in the CodeableConcept
15:32:17 <rhausam> peter: problem with the example text
15:32:34 <rhausam> tony: the example may not be entirely correct
15:32:39 <dbooth> zakim, who is making noise?
15:32:49 <Zakim> dbooth, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Tony (75%), PeterHendler (49%), DBooth (60%), Kerstin_Forsberg (49%)
15:33:22 <dbooth> zakim, temporarily mute Kerstin_Forsberg
15:33:22 <Zakim> Kerstin_Forsberg should now be muted
15:33:38 <Zakim> Kerstin_Forsberg should now be unmuted again
15:33:53 <Zakim> -Kerstin_Forsberg
15:35:34 <rhausam> tony: if you import the SNOMED CT ontology the label will be applied to the individual in Protege
15:36:23 <rhausam> tony: allergy example - lines 158 - 164 are 'substance'
15:37:11 <rhausam> tony: line 182 - AllergyIntolerance.substance
15:37:34 <rhausam> peter: SNOMED doesn't have individuals
15:37:39 <rhausam> tony: exactly right
15:37:49 <dbooth> line 201
15:38:27 <rhausam> tony: line 210 - declaration of individual
15:38:50 <Rafael> Rafael has joined #HCLS
15:39:00 <dbooth> s/210/201/
15:39:30 <rhausam> tony: the SNOMED CT individual is named the same as the SNOMED CT type
15:39:58 <Zakim> + +1.202.469.aaee
15:40:45 <rhausam> peter: in RDF can't have an object property with an association to a class
15:41:05 <rhausam> tony: agree - others on call also agree
15:41:09 <dbooth> zakim, aaee is Rafael
15:41:09 <Zakim> +Rafael; got it
15:42:02 <rhausam> tony: puns are typically used for metamodeling - in this case the individual is a member of itself
15:42:30 <rhausam> peter: did example come from Grahame? - it's clinically bad
15:42:53 <rhausam> tony: it came from me - agree that it's clinically bad
15:43:37 <dbooth> rafael, we're looking at http://wiki.hl7.org/images/2/25/FHIR_RDF_Sample_side_by_side_comparisons.pdf
15:44:29 <rhausam> tony: can change the example
15:44:36 <dbooth> peter: please change "Antibacterial drugs (product)" to "anti-lactam(sp?)"
15:45:19 <dbooth> line 203
15:46:25 <Rafael> should be "beta-lactam"
15:47:23 <rhausam> tony: object property assertions can only be to instances (individuals)
15:47:24 <Rafael> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%92-lactam_antibiotic
15:48:02 <rhausam> tony: important to have the rdfs:label
15:48:19 <rhausam> tony: schema in line 213
15:48:22 <dbooth> line 213
15:49:05 <dbooth> line 232
15:49:08 <rhausam> tony: CodeableConcept - don't have binding to SNOMED CT
15:50:14 <rhausam> tony: profile (Patient Safety Profile) - has restrictions on both FHIR instance and the terminology
15:50:44 <Zakim> -Marc_Twagirumukiza
15:51:29 <rhausam> tony: line 232 - profile contains a restriction on the value set of Substance
15:52:02 <rhausam> tony: line 241 AllergyIntolerance.substance.coding is defined as a property chain
15:52:34 <rhausam> tony: line 236 - all of the codings must come from these (restricted) sets
15:54:07 <rhausam> tony: line 245 - SNOMED CT RDF - this is what is pointed to by these puns
15:54:46 <dbooth> rob: Like the punning
15:55:53 <rhausam> david: some concerns about the punning
15:56:28 <dbooth> david: I have some concerns about the punning, esp for ont defined by others
15:56:56 <dbooth> david: but we can show this style without punning -- using separate URIs for instance and class
15:58:41 <rhausam> tony: line 92 - shows instance with a different URI from the class (from Grahame)
15:59:20 <rhausam> david: think we will have some difficulties with URIs
16:00:17 <rhausam> david: URI for the coding system is arbitrary - declared by the coding system
16:01:16 <rhausam> david: if we do create a URI based on their base URI, then this is "URI squatting" - may potentially be in conflict
16:01:58 <rhausam> tony: we may not be able to do this with anyone who hasn't declared a URI standard for their terminology
16:02:40 <dbooth> ADJOURNED
16:03:10 <Zakim> -DBooth
16:03:21 <Zakim> -Tony
16:03:24 <Zakim> -Rafael
16:03:25 <Zakim> -PeterHendler
16:04:44 <Zakim> -vassil
16:09:44 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, rhausam, in SW_HCLS()11:00AM
16:09:45 <Zakim> SW_HCLS()11:00AM has ended
16:09:45 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.978.794.aaaa, +1.510.418.aabb, DBooth, PeterHendler, Tony, +1.801.949.aacc, rhausam, +1.608.628.aadd, Marc_Twagirumukiza, vassil, Kerstin_Forsberg,
16:09:46 <Zakim> ... +1.202.469.aaee, Rafael
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17:03:47 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:03:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/19-hcls-minutes.html dbooth
17:04:01 <dbooth> Chair: David Booth
17:04:10 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:04:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/19-hcls-minutes.html dbooth
17:05:24 <dbooth> Present: David_Booth, Peter_Hendler, Tony_Mallia, Rob_Hausam, Marc_Twagirumukiza, vassil, Kerstin_Forsberg, Rafael_Richards
17:05:27 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:05:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/19-hcls-minutes.html dbooth
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