13:59:27 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tt
13:59:27 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-tt-irc
13:59:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:59:29 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #tt
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13:59:31 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be TTML
13:59:32 <trackbot> Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
13:59:32 <trackbot> Date: 14 May 2015
13:59:32 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
13:59:55 <plh> plh has joined #tt
14:00:23 <Zakim> SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has now started
14:00:29 <Zakim> +Andreas
14:00:30 <Zakim> + +1.720.897.aaaa
14:01:41 <glenn> zakim, aaaa is me
14:01:41 <Zakim> +glenn; got it
14:02:05 <Zakim> +nigel
14:02:36 <nigel> Present: glenn, Andreas, nigel
14:02:39 <nigel> chair: nigel
14:02:40 <nigel> scribe: nigel
14:02:55 <Zakim> +Plh
14:03:08 <nigel> Present+ plh
14:03:17 <nigel> Regrets: Frans
14:04:01 <courtney> courtney has joined #tt
14:04:46 <Zakim> + +1.408.771.aabb
14:05:09 <nigel> Present+ courtney
14:05:15 <nigel> zakim, aabb is Courtney
14:05:15 <Zakim> +Courtney; got it
14:05:33 <nigel> Topic: This meeting
14:06:15 <nigel> nigel: Runs through the agenda. AOB?
14:06:21 <nigel> group: No AOB
14:06:59 <nigel> plh: We'll be pushed onto Webex at the end of June. I recommend you don't worry about it for now.
14:07:11 <nigel> ... In June I'll get the groups to move slowly across. There is no need to move earlier.
14:07:21 <nigel> ... Once you move you can't move back!
14:08:10 <nigel> nigel: We have no chair yet for June 18 and June 25 so we could make the move in the first meeting of
14:08:14 <nigel> ... July.
14:08:38 <Zakim> +pal
14:08:59 <pal> pal has joined #tt
14:09:03 <nigel> plh: I recommend waiting until July.
14:09:07 <nigel> Present+ pal
14:10:39 <nigel> nigel: Does anyone want to chair on 18th and 15th June?
14:10:56 <nigel> pal: If we have work to do then I recommend planning to hold the meetings and then we'll find someone
14:11:02 <nigel> nigel: Okay, works for me!
14:11:15 <nigel> Topic: Action Items
14:11:24 <nigel> action-385?
14:11:24 <trackbot> action-385 -- Glenn Adams to Remove stereoleft and stereoright from <bound-parameter> -- due 2015-04-17 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:11:24 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/385
14:11:52 <nigel> nigel: Glenn has done this - stereoLeft and stereoRight are removed.
14:11:56 <nigel> glenn: They're gone!
14:12:15 <nigel> close action-385
14:12:15 <trackbot> Closed action-385.
14:12:20 <nigel> action-402?
14:12:20 <trackbot> action-402 -- Nigel Megitt to Trim dotted lines out of pngs and edit test text -- due 2015-05-14 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:12:20 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/402
14:13:17 <nigel> close action-402
14:13:17 <trackbot> Closed action-402.
14:13:44 <nigel> action-397?
14:13:44 <trackbot> action-397 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Prepare cr2 transition version (after closing one remaining issue on imsc 1) -- due 2015-04-17 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:13:44 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/397
14:14:21 <nigel> pal: I've just updated that and pointed to the CR2 branch on Mercurial
14:14:41 <nigel> close action-397
14:14:41 <trackbot> Closed action-397.
14:16:50 <nigel> Topic: Issues
14:16:57 <nigel> issue-265?
14:16:57 <trackbot> issue-265 -- Some bad tests -- open
14:16:57 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/265
14:18:15 <nigel> nigel: This week someone asked on stackoverflow about a timing test that seems to indicate that the
14:18:42 <nigel> ... default dur for a content element in a seq container is zero, whereas in fact it's indefinite, so I've
14:18:49 <nigel> ... added the affected tests to this issue.
14:19:41 <nigel> nigel: I answered the question on stackoverflow - the link is in the issue. I really hope I got it right!
14:20:09 <nigel> Topic: IMSC CR2
14:20:36 <nigel> nigel: The status of IMSC CR2 is that it has been prepared, with the same SOTD but a later 'do not exit before' date.
14:20:58 <nigel> ... I think the next step is to request a meeting for transition with the Director?
14:21:16 <nigel> plh: No! I'd rather not talk to the Director on this one. It's supposed to be lightweight. We do need a
14:21:26 <nigel> ... transition request to be sent to chairs. That hasn't happened?
14:21:29 <nigel> nigel: No, nobody has done that.
14:21:46 <nigel> plh: I'm willing to send the transition request but I need the proper links and text. I will need the links
14:22:02 <nigel> ... to where comments are addressed and the list of changes, and I guess that's it. The rest I can take
14:22:12 <nigel> ... from the previous CR.
14:22:24 <nigel> nigel: We have all that.
14:22:34 <nigel> plh: Point me to it and I'll generate the transition request.
14:23:27 <nigel> nigel: List of changes: https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/3e1440f7f545/ttml-ww-profiles/substantive-changes-summary.txt
14:23:58 <nigel> plh: I can generate the diff.
14:24:42 <nigel> ... [looks at the list of changes] Okay, I have enough!
14:25:44 <nigel> nigel: So even though we have assessed the changes and decided that several of them are substantive,
14:25:48 <nigel> ... we don't need a Director call?
14:25:51 <plh> http://www.w3.org/2014/Process-20140801/#revised-cr
14:25:59 <plh> "Note that approval is expected to be fairly simple compared to getting approval for a transition from Working Draft to Candidate Recommendation."
14:26:03 <nigel> plh: No, you don't need it.
14:26:38 <nigel> s/"Note/plh: Quote from the process: "Note
14:27:08 <nigel> plh: Hopefully I can go through these changes tomorrow, and if it's okay, the latest publication date
14:27:13 <nigel> ... will be Thursday next week.
14:27:38 <nigel> plh: I can take care of fixing the date up in the CR2 draft.
14:28:09 <nigel> nigel: Our view on the earliest exit date is date of publication + 4 weeks.
14:28:13 <nigel> plh: Thanks for letting me know.
14:28:24 <plh> Nigel: publishing date + 4 weeks for review
14:29:23 <nigel> Action-403: [Meeting 2015-05-14] plh informs the group that a Director call is not needed.
14:29:23 <trackbot> Notes added to Action-403 Arrange director call for imsc 1 cr2 transition request.
14:29:27 <nigel> close action-403
14:29:27 <trackbot> Closed action-403.
14:30:12 <nigel> Topic: IMSC Test Suite and Implementation Report
14:30:40 <nigel> nigel: We've already covered action-402. Anything else to report here?
14:30:49 <nigel> pal: Nothing to report
14:31:04 <nigel> Topic: WebVTT comments
14:31:42 <nigel> courtney: No update
14:31:50 <nigel> Topic: TTML2 Editorial actions
14:32:44 <nigel> nigel: Glenn, do you have a plan date for next working on the spec?
14:32:55 <nigel> glenn: Nothing definite, probably a week or so between now and the end of June.
14:33:54 <nigel> nigel: It'd be helpful to set a deadline for delivering editorial actions so that folk who have taken them on can know when they're due by.
14:34:32 <nigel> glenn: I'd say end of June, but I can process examples sooner since they don't require too much effort.
14:35:15 <nigel> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/file/tip/ttml2/spec/ednotes.xlsx
14:35:26 <nigel> nigel: I know from previous weeks when we've looked at this that it's quite sparse - anyone else want to
14:35:31 <nigel> ... take any of the editorial actions?
14:38:12 <nigel> Topic: TTML Versions note
14:38:33 <nigel> https://dvcs.w3.org/hg/ttml/raw-file/5ee90ec0d897/ttml-status/index.html
14:38:59 <nigel> nigel: How does everyone feel about this document - is it useful?
14:39:32 <nigel> atai: It does make sense to have such a document but it needs more work to explain the contents
14:39:48 <nigel> ... of the document and the relationships of the spec. The question is what kind of TTML profiles
14:39:50 <plh> q+ to ask questions IMSC CR2 transition
14:40:04 <nigel> ... should go in there - just for W3C profiles or also those from other groups? What is the aim?
14:40:58 <nigel> nigel: It can be what we want it to be. There's no problem referencing non-W3C specs in a WG note.
14:41:25 <nigel> atai: It's definitely helpful but I have no resources to work on it at the moment!
14:41:36 <nigel> nigel: Okay, well we can keep working on it then and keep this open.
14:42:22 <nigel> Topic: IMSC CR2 continued
14:42:28 <nigel> ack plh
14:42:28 <Zakim> plh, you wanted to ask questions IMSC CR2 transition
14:42:45 <nigel> plh: I need more on the story here. Where did the changes originate - members or external organisations?
14:43:03 <nigel> ... Also, for the changes that have been made, what kind of review did we get on those changes?
14:43:31 <nigel> ... Even if they're substantive, do they affect the previous review feedback?
14:43:42 <nigel> ... Firstly, where did the changes come from?
14:43:51 <nigel> pal: They came from the issues filed on the document.
14:43:59 <nigel> plh: Who filed them - anyone from inside the WG?
14:44:09 <nigel> pal: I'll have to go back to the issues. Most of them were from within the WG.
14:44:34 <nigel> plh: Okay. My second question is, what kind of review can we claim on those changes or are we confident
14:44:40 <nigel> ... that the changes are good enough.
14:44:58 <nigel> pal: The resolution to those issues has not been widely distributed. My personal opinion is that the
14:45:16 <nigel> ... changes are substantive by the process, but they're extremely limited in scope so I don't feel that the
14:45:29 <nigel> ... document has changed sufficiently to warrant the sort of wide review that the document already
14:45:37 <nigel> ... has undergone to reach CR.
14:45:44 <nigel> plh: Okay.
14:46:02 <nigel> pal: FYI one of the issues was in response to a late comment received during the CR transition and the
14:46:09 <nigel> ... commenter was happy with it.
14:46:25 <nigel> plh: Are you aware of any other changes where the commenter wasn't happy with the resolution?
14:46:28 <nigel> pal: No
14:46:33 <nigel> plh: Thanks, now I have my story.
14:47:20 <nigel> nigel: I second pal's judgment there on the changes being substantive but not needing further review.
14:47:32 <nigel> ... They are worthwhile however.
14:48:44 <nigel> Topic: Change Proposals
14:48:57 <plh> transition request for IMSC: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2015AprJun/0095.html
14:49:19 <nigel> nigel: I just want to check if there's been any update on HTMLCue and Opera?
14:49:44 <nigel> Andreas: I had an action to kick off a gathering to discuss this issue. There's no progress to report right now.
14:50:44 <nigel> nigel: Glenn, has any of your work resulted in areas of spec change to TTML?
14:51:00 <nigel> glenn: Possibly - I've been spending time on Ruby and text emphasis and how they're formatted in the
14:51:21 <nigel> ... context of what we've implemented in order to handle the multiRowAlign requirement by treating
14:51:36 <nigel> ... a span as an inline block with a different text align. There are some subtleties of formatting that are
14:51:53 <nigel> ... not particularly well addressed in CSS that I'll probably end up needing to articulate in the TTML2
14:52:07 <nigel> ... spec in order to make it more clear. For example the line separation behaviour of lines that contain
14:52:23 <nigel> ... Ruby that potentially overlap, for example a Ruby below line followed by a Ruby above line. Does the
14:52:39 <nigel> ... addition of the Ruby cause the line height to be changed? Is that accomplished by adding leading or
14:52:57 <nigel> ... by changing lineHeight. In the process of implementing formatting support I've found those. You can
14:53:07 <nigel> ... track that activity by going to the repository and see what's happening.
14:53:09 <glenn> https://github.com/skynav/ttt/commits/master
14:53:38 <nigel> glenn: We recently changed the location of that repository - you can follow it if you're interested.
14:53:58 <nigel> ... One side effect of this activity is we're generating a lot of TTML2 test files that include these features
14:54:06 <nigel> ... here's a link...
14:54:37 <Zakim> -glenn
14:54:45 <nigel> glenn: Those test files will be very useful when it comes to creating a test suite for TTML2 I think.
14:56:00 <glenn_> glenn_ has joined #tt
14:56:25 <glenn_> sorry, dropped the line, will post link...
14:56:34 <nigel> s/Topic: Change Proposals/
14:56:38 <glenn_> https://github.com/skynav/ttt/tree/master/ttt-ttpe/src/test/resources/com/skynav/ttpe/app
14:56:46 <nigel> i/nigel: I just/Topic: Change Proposals
14:56:58 <nigel> nigel: Thanks glenn!
14:57:32 <Zakim> -Andreas
14:57:33 <Zakim> -Courtney
14:57:33 <Zakim> -Plh
14:57:35 <Zakim> -pal
14:57:36 <nigel> nigel: Thanks everyone, we'll meet again same time next week. [adjourns meeting]
14:57:47 <Zakim> -nigel
14:57:48 <Zakim> SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has ended
14:57:48 <Zakim> Attendees were Andreas, +1.720.897.aaaa, glenn, nigel, Plh, +1.408.771.aabb, Courtney, pal
14:57:55 <nigel> rrsagent, make logs public
14:57:58 <nigel> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:57:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-tt-minutes.html nigel
14:58:21 <glenn__> glenn__ has joined #tt
14:59:32 <glenn__> fyi, in the *.expected.zip files in this directory are rendered forms of the TTML in SVG
15:21:50 <nigel> s/Nigel: publishing date + 4 weeks for review/
15:24:27 <nigel> s/changing lineHeight./changing lineHeight?
15:24:45 <nigel> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:24:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:28:06 <nigel> ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
15:28:08 <nigel> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:28:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-tt-minutes.html nigel
16:58:18 <Zakim> Zakim has left #tt