20:28:14 RRSAgent has joined #svg 20:28:14 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-svg-irc 20:28:16 RRSAgent, make logs public 20:28:16 Zakim has joined #svg 20:28:18 Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG 20:28:18 ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGWG()4:30PM already started 20:28:19 Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference 20:28:19 Date: 14 May 2015 20:30:33 +[IPcaller] 20:30:34 Zakim, [ is me 20:30:34 +heycam; got it 20:30:38 Zakim, who is on the call? 20:30:38 On the phone I see Thomas_Smailus, heycam 20:30:42 AmeliaBR has joined #svg 20:31:24 +??P9 20:31:37 zakim, ??P9 is me 20:31:37 +AmeliaBR; got it 20:31:57 +??P10 20:32:04 zakim, ??P10 is me 20:32:04 +stakagi; got it 20:33:23 Chair: Cameron 20:33:30 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2015May/0019.html 20:34:04 +??P0 20:34:14 +[IPcaller] 20:34:32 Zakim, [IP is me 20:34:32 +ed; got it 20:34:44 nikos_ has joined #svg 20:34:45 +Doug_Schepers 20:36:27 +??P3 20:36:41 Zakim, who is on the call? 20:36:41 On the phone I see Thomas_Smailus, heycam, AmeliaBR, stakagi, ??P0, ed, Doug_Schepers, ??P3 20:36:46 Zakim, ??P0 is me 20:36:46 +nikos_; got it 20:36:57 All about Web Ex: https://www.w3.org/2006/tools/wiki/WebExBestPractices 20:37:25 +[Microsoft] 20:37:32 Zakim, ??P3 is me 20:37:32 +Tav; got it 20:39:01 Zakim, pick a scribe 20:39:01 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose [Microsoft] 20:39:09 Zakim, pick a scribe 20:39:09 Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose Tav 20:40:53 scribenick: Tav 20:41:16 Topic: Switching to webex 20:41:51 shepazu: Our phone lines die in late June. When do we want to transition? 20:42:09 heycam: Next week? 20:42:17 shepazu: Not here next week, better week after. 20:42:34 https://www.w3.org/2006/tools/wiki/WebExBestPractices 20:43:04 AmeliaBR: TIps for how to use webex... not connection between IRC and phone bots. 20:43:40 AmeliaBR: can't type in IRC to mute, etc. won't recognize phone numbers but should be more reliable 20:44:22 Smailus: Will we be able to do screen sharing? 20:44:42 shepazu: It can but isn't considered to be best practices at the moment. 20:45:16 Smailus: Can you send out info so we can get setup? Going through firewalls etc... 20:45:35 shepazu: Can call in or connect through computer. Sound quality OK for both. 20:46:11 Topic: SVG 2 Issues 20:46:49 heycam: We are looking at appendices? 20:46:54 https://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Chapter_Assessment 20:48:01 https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/svgdom.html#SVGObjectInitialization 20:49:34 Done 20:49:52 https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/implnote.html#issue1 20:50:42 Rossen: HTML5 svg documents stop rendering... 20:51:22 Rossen: Sounds like a bit of rewriting, not really something for discussion. 20:52:00 heycam: We know we need to update error processing so we don't blow-up with small errors. 20:52:38 AmeliaBR: Specific issue are wording. More general question is do we want to move to a more forgiving error handling? 20:53:06 AmeliaBR: Worry about big changes first... working later. 20:53:39 s/working/wording/ 20:53:51 Rossen: Whole chapter needs editorial work. 20:54:02 heycam: This chapter hasn't seen much attention. 20:54:27 Rossen: Most of the issues just need someone to do them. 20:54:27 I don't think this appendix really describes what current implementations do in any case, so "requirements" 20:54:51 heycam: Are you going to look into updating error processing? 20:55:13 Rossen: Current wording doesn't align with DOM error processing. 20:55:24 heycam: Are you willing to do that? 20:55:29 Rossen: Yes. 20:56:34 action - Bogdan to attempt to align Error processing appendix with DOM/CSS error processing and recovery 20:56:34 Error finding '-'. You can review and register nicknames at . 20:56:49 action: Bogdan to attempt to align Error processing appendix with DOM/CSS error processing and recovery 20:56:50 Created ACTION-3791 - Attempt to align error processing appendix with dom/css error processing and recovery [on Bogdan Brinza - due 2015-05-21]. 20:57:29 https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/implnote.html#issue10 20:58:32 heycam: Interested in range-clamping... 20:59:10 hecam: Does CSS have rules for clamping? 20:59:55 AmeliaBR: Perhaps wording should be cleaned up. Main thing is don't clamp until the end... important for multi-step filter processes. 21:00:07 heycam: Maybe should be moved to filter spec. 21:01:23 heycam: Out-of-range values during calculations may be implementation dependent. 21:01:41 heycam: Not sure what to do with this section (C.4 Clamping...) 21:02:03 AmeliaBR: Hint, generally, try to preserve information as long as possible. 21:02:33 heycam: This is more about trying to keep in the range.... doesn't necessarily mean you should fall back to lacuna values. 21:03:36 heycam: We should not fallback to lacuna values as suggested in wiki. 21:04:13 Smailus: Does this deal with overflow on coordinates? 21:04:24 heycam: This is more about color value and compositing. 21:04:44 heycam: There are requirements somewhere about precision. 21:05:11 AmeliaBR: Difference between spec restrictions vs. practical limits. 21:05:52 Rossen: coordinates should be not be clamped... 21:06:08 Smailus: But we are using very large coordinates. 21:06:17 heycam: Is that precision vs. range. 21:06:32 AmeliaBR: We should have precision in this appendix. 21:06:42 heycam: I think it is in the next appendix. 21:06:57 Smailus: Precision and range are coupled so they should be talked about together. 21:06:58 Precision section in Ch3: https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/types.html#Precision 21:07:23 https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/conform.html#issue1 21:08:44 heycam: We need somewhere to put what is allowed well now that the DTD is gone. 21:09:29 AmeliaBR: What we do is have categories and content models. 21:10:26 heycam: The blue definition boxes should include which child elements are allowed, this was taken from the DTD. 21:10:50 Rossen: Is the issue about collecting all the information in one place? 21:11:08 heycam: No, more about saying that a conforming document matches the blue boxes. 21:11:27 AmeliaBR: So we can just add a bullet point there saying that. 21:12:15 AmeliaBR: If anybody wants to compile all the blue boxes into a document, that might be a good idea. 21:12:39 heycam: The scripts could be tweaked to do that. If people think it is important, I can do that. 21:13:16 Rossen: The indices point to the information. 21:13:26 heycam: It is not to hard for people to find already. 21:14:34 heycam: The accessibility appendix, Rich was going to provide a rewrite. We'll ask him next time he's on a call. 21:15:13 https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/eltindex.html#issue1 21:16:36 Rossen: Suggest to live as is... it is not an issue to include filter effects etc. here. 21:16:54 Tav: I strongly agree. 21:16:59 s/live/leave/ 21:16:59 s/to live/to leave/ 21:17:29 +1 to keeping the elements that were moved out to other specs 21:17:36 Rossen: Gut feeling that this is useful for developers and not users. 21:17:57 AmeliaBR: People will be looking for things and be puzzled if things that were here before are no longer here. 21:19:25 heycam: I'll try to come up with something that will call out the things defined in other specs.. if it doesn't take too much time. 21:19:33 https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/idlindex.html 21:20:11 Rossen: Remove appendix? 21:21:02 heycam: I can move the info. 21:21:35 https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/feature.html 21:21:42 Rossen: Feature strings... everybody just returns 'true' 21:22:47 Rossen: Webkit code just handles just a couple of strings. You can pass bogus feature strings and it returns true. 21:23:27 AmeliaBR: If we remove this the we remove the idea of having a switch based on features. 21:24:19 Rossen: From browser point of view not so important... but non-browsers might require it. 21:25:36 Rossen: You can do this other ways with browsers, but taking it out of the spec could be a bit drastic as other might use it. 21:26:23 AmeliaBR: Because it hasn't been implement properly.. but for static viewers it is important. 21:27:02 heycam: Why include both parts? 21:27:31 Tav, for editing purposes. We want to include SVG 2 part but still include SVG 1.1 backup. 21:28:06 AmeliaBR: Currently used to see if foriegnObject supported. 21:28:38 AmeliaBR: Uses required features as required extension are completely useless. 21:32:23 https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/changes.html 21:34:17 s/here/hear/ 21:34:31 -Thomas_Smailus 21:34:34 -ed 21:34:35 -stakagi 21:34:36 -heycam 21:34:41 -nikos_ 21:34:49 -[Microsoft] 21:34:54 -Doug_Schepers 21:35:07 -AmeliaBR 21:35:13 heycam: anyone who has a view on what to do with the Feature Strings appendix, please send a suggestion to the list and we can discuss next week 21:35:38 heycam: let's try to get the "needing investigation" issues investigated in time for discussion at the F2F 21:35:38 Sorry, my Internet connection failed.... 21:35:55 heycam: I will send out a link to the F2F Agenda proposals page with a reminder 21:36:24 heycam: Not sure how... 21:37:50 trackbot, end telcon 21:37:50 Zakim, list attendees 21:37:50 As of this point the attendees have been Thomas_Smailus, [IPcaller], heycam, AmeliaBR, stakagi, ed, Doug_Schepers, nikos_, [Microsoft], Tav 21:37:58 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 21:37:58 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-svg-minutes.html trackbot 21:37:59 RRSAgent, bye 21:37:59 I see 1 open action item saved in http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-svg-actions.rdf : 21:37:59 ACTION: Bogdan to attempt to align Error processing appendix with DOM/CSS error processing and recovery [1] 21:37:59 recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/05/14-svg-irc#T20-56-49