14:53:31 RRSAgent has joined #html-media 14:53:31 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/05/05-html-media-irc 14:53:33 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:53:33 Zakim has joined #html-media 14:53:35 Zakim, this will be 63342 14:53:35 ok, trackbot; I see HTML_WG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes 14:53:36 Meeting: HTML Media Task Force Teleconference 14:53:36 Date: 05 May 2015 14:54:07 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015May/0004.html 14:57:29 MattWolenetz has joined #html-media 14:59:08 HTML_WG()11:00AM has now started 14:59:12 markw has joined #html-media 14:59:15 +??P12 14:59:22 +markw 14:59:28 zakim, P12 is me 14:59:28 sorry, MattWolenetz, I do not recognize a party named 'P12' 14:59:35 zakim, ??P12 is me 14:59:35 +MattWolenetz; got it 14:59:59 ddorwin has joined #html-media 15:00:36 +ddorwin 15:00:47 joesteele has joined #html-media 15:01:13 geguchi has joined #html-media 15:01:26 + +1.408.536.aaaa 15:01:54 davide has joined #html-media 15:02:26 + +1.415.832.aabb 15:02:39 Zakim, aaaa is me 15:02:39 +joesteele; got it 15:02:46 +davide 15:02:54 zakim, what is the code? 15:02:54 the conference code is 63342 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), paulc 15:03:02 chair: Paul Cotton 15:03:06 scribe: Joe Steele 15:03:13 scribenick: joesteele 15:03:21 +[Microsoft] 15:03:37 zakim, [Microsoft] is me 15:03:37 +paulc; got it 15:03:49 zakim, who is on the phone? 15:03:49 On the phone I see MattWolenetz, markw, ddorwin, joesteele, +1.415.832.aabb, davide, paulc 15:04:15 BobLund has joined #html-media 15:04:25 aabb is me 15:04:34 Zakim, aabb is me 15:04:34 +geguchi; got it 15:04:35 Zakim, aabb is geguchi 15:04:36 sorry, joesteele, I do not recognize a party named 'aabb' 15:05:15 Agenda: http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015May/0004.html 15:05:33 topic: F2F action items 15:05:44 topic: ACTION-82 15:05:46 ACTION-82? 15:05:46 ACTION-82 -- Paul Cotton to Figure out what's going to happen to media controller -- due 2015-04-22 -- OPEN 15:05:46 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/82 15:06:14 paulc: contacted the w3c - but AC mtg is occuring in Paris, so still waiting for response 15:06:24 ACTION-82 is due next week 15:06:43 ACTION-82 due next week 15:06:43 Set ACTION-82 Figure out what's going to happen to media controller due date to 2015-05-11. 15:06:53 topic: ACTION-83 15:06:55 ACTION-83? 15:06:55 ACTION-83 -- Daniel Davis to Point web and tv ig members to the use case wiki page. -- due 2015-04-22 -- OPEN 15:06:55 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/83 15:07:12 paulc: don't know what the status is - anyone? 15:07:21 +jdsmith 15:07:24 jdsmith has joined #html-media 15:07:28 +BobLund 15:07:33 ... best bet is to send Daniel Davis an email for update 15:07:38 ... status unknown for now 15:08:04 topic: ACTION-84 15:08:06 ACTION-84? 15:08:06 ACTION-84 -- Paul Cotton to (really rustamk) to update uses cases and arrange for further discussion -- due 2015-04-22 -- OPEN 15:08:06 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/84 15:08:28 paulc: for Rus to update use case 15:08:39 paulc: any status on this? 15:09:12 here is his address -- Rustam_Khashimkhodjaev@cable.comcast.com 15:09:58 topic: ACTION-85 15:09:59 ACTION-85? 15:09:59 ACTION-85 -- Mark Watson to Provide additional technical recommendations for persistent-release-message based on implementation experience -- due 2015-04-23 -- OPEN 15:09:59 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/85 15:10:10 paulc: discussion about this on the email 15:10:12 See also http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Apr/0061.html 15:10:27 markw: I did a few things in response, updated the wiki page 15:10:32 ... no agreement as yet 15:10:47 ... also created a pull request to implement in the spec the changes I implemented last week 15:11:08 ... the way that the mechanism works is not to require user agent to do any special work at shutdown 15:11:13 https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/pull/54 15:11:20 paulc: can you give the use case link 15:11:23 ... ? 15:11:45 ... does this complete the action? 15:11:51 markw: think this completes it 15:12:05 https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/Media_Task_Force/EME_Use_Cases#Limited_Concurrent_Streams_via_Key_Release 15:12:05 https://www.w3.org/wiki/HTML/Media_Task_Force/EME_Use_Cases#Limited_Concurrent_Streams_via_Key_Renewal 15:12:17 yes, that is the link we are looking for 15:12:33 paulc: I am closing the action 15:12:41 ... any further discussion needed today? 15:12:49 markw: no comments on the pull request as yet 15:13:04 q+ 15:13:08 ... what I would like to know is whether the changes are acceptable and if we can bring into the spec 15:13:19 paulc: editor comments 15:13:24 ack dd 15:13:30 ddorwin: thanks for updating the wiki 15:13:39 ... replied to some questions on the renewal 15:14:07 ... I was considering extracting Marks info to another wiki path (not removing it) 15:14:26 ... did look at the pull request, but what somewhat hard to review as the enum values were re-ordered - not sure why 15:14:39 markw: It seemed like there was a natural order 15:15:13 ... when you make a pull request on github, it compares against the whole, unfortunately we don't have a nice HTML diff 15:15:33 Spec as revised by PR is here: https://mwatson2.github.io/encrypted-media/ 15:15:37 paulc: think that answers the question about the ordering .. maybe should carry forward via email 15:15:43 ... put on the agenda for next week 15:15:46 I can revert the ordering changes if you would like ? 15:15:56 ... let people know if you end up doing additional wiki work David 15:16:00 ddorwin: ok 15:16:29 markw: think it would be good to know whether the approach described makes senses 15:16:41 ddorwin: still parsing and have some concerns, but will respond on the thread 15:16:50 ACTION-86? 15:16:50 ACTION-86 -- David Dorwin to Send an update on bug 27269 -- due 2015-04-23 -- OPEN 15:16:50 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/86 15:16:51 topic: ACTION-86 15:17:13 ddorwin: this was not high priority so have not done anything yet 15:17:32 paulc: let's adjust the due date then 15:17:55 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=27269 15:18:04 ACTION-86 due in one month 15:18:04 Set ACTION-86 Send an update on bug 27269 due date to 2015-04-23. 15:18:05 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:18:05 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/05-html-media-minutes.html joesteele 15:19:13 paulc: I updated it to May 30th 15:19:17 topic: ACTION-87 15:19:19 ACTION-87? 15:19:19 ACTION-87 -- Joe Steele to Carry out steps 1 thru 6 on the proposed solution to issue-41 -- due 2015-04-30 -- OPEN 15:19:19 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/87 15:19:38 joesteele: think this is done 15:19:45 paulc: I believe it is done 15:19:51 See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Apr/0064.html 15:20:12 paulc: closing with reference to that email 15:20:22 topic: ACTION-88 15:20:24 ACTION-88? 15:20:24 ACTION-88 -- Paul Cotton to Check on whether the proposed generic license request/response protocol is in scope of the current html wg charter -- due 2015-04-23 -- OPEN 15:20:24 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/88 15:20:35 paulc: I did that 15:20:39 See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015May/0003.html 15:20:51 ... the sad news it that it is deemed to be not in scope 15:21:28 ... we were very careful to have a written dialog with the team and they decided this is not in scope 15:21:52 ... the AC mtg going on includes the HTML WG charter going forward 15:21:55 ... Accessibility efforts on under direct study as well 15:22:03 ... lots of thinking going on about new work going forward 15:22:06 -BobLund 15:22:22 ... when team comes back from Paris, we can start working on a new charter for the WG 15:22:36 ... I will recommend that the technical dialogue does not continue on this list for now 15:22:46 ... I will leave this open for now 15:22:47 q+ 15:22:49 ACTION-88 due in two weeks 15:22:49 Set ACTION-88 Check on whether the proposed generic license request/response protocol is in scope of the current html wg charter due date to 2015-04-23. 15:23:18 markw: one of the suggestions on the list for this idea was to take the clearkey protocol and wrap it in security wrappers 15:23:22 + +1.303.661.aacc 15:23:33 zakim, aacc is me 15:23:33 +BobLund; got it 15:23:34 ... would it be in scope to work on the clearkey protocol and just add features to that? 15:23:56 ... with the intention of folding this work back in later when/if scope is approved 15:24:09 paulc: would you make that proposal in the email thread I mentioned? 15:24:21 ... it has ACTION-88 in the title 15:24:28 q+ 15:24:30 ... I can take offlein with the team and work on it 15:24:32 ack mark 15:24:40 s/offlein/offline/ 15:24:46 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:24:46 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/05-html-media-minutes.html joesteele 15:24:57 pac: I updated the end date for this action item 15:25:12 I seem to have been dropped. 15:25:17 -ddorwin 15:25:31 ACTION-88? 15:25:31 ACTION-88 -- Paul Cotton to Check on whether the proposed generic license request/response protocol is in scope of the current html wg charter -- due 2015-05-20 -- OPEN 15:25:31 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/88 15:25:35 +ddorwin 15:25:53 topic: ACTION-89 15:25:54 ACTION-89? 15:25:54 ACTION-89 -- Paul Cotton to Do a html wg cfc to move eme to process 2014 and to move it to be published automatically to tr space for each editor's draft commit -- due 2015-04-23 -- OPEN 15:25:54 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/89 15:26:04 paulc: this was done 15:26:10 See http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015May/0009.html 15:26:27 ... CFC is ongoing 15:26:28 markw_ has joined #html-media 15:26:33 topic: ACTION-90 15:26:34 ACTION-90? 15:26:34 ACTION-90 -- Paul Cotton to Update bug 20944 if the tf goes ahead with work on generic license request/response protocol -- due 2015-04-23 -- OPEN 15:26:34 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/90 15:26:48 paulc: this action is dependent on action 88 15:27:01 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:27:01 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/05-html-media-minutes.html joesteele 15:27:11 paulc: changing the date also 15:27:17 ACTION-90? 15:27:17 ACTION-90 -- Paul Cotton to Update bug 20944 if the tf goes ahead with work on generic license request/response protocol -- due 2015-05-20 -- OPEN 15:27:17 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/90 15:27:30 topic: ACTION-91 15:27:31 ACTION-91? 15:27:31 ACTION-91 -- Paul Cotton to (really rustamk) to ask cable labs about their current eme testing and whether they can expose it to the tf -- due 2015-04-23 -- OPEN 15:27:31 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/91 15:27:52 paulc: ask CableLabs about testing -- seems like in progress and have seen emails from Rus 15:28:05 ... will push the date out a bit on this for further research 15:28:18 BobLund: I will update the action item, think it is really on me 15:28:37 paulc: you can put right on the list for more notice 15:28:46 ... put the ACTION-90 in the subject 15:28:52 topic: ACTION-92 15:28:54 ACTION-92? 15:28:54 ACTION-92 -- Paul Cotton to Build a generic wiki agenda for future tf meetings -- due 2015-04-23 -- OPEN 15:28:54 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/92 15:29:02 paulc: this is still pending 15:29:20 paulc: that takes us to MSE bugs 15:29:24 topic: New MSE bugs 15:29:39 paulc: both filed by Matt -- don't have any discussion yet 15:29:45 ... do you want to discuss today 15:29:51 topic: Bug 28557 15:29:57 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=28557 15:30:00 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=28557 15:30:15 MattWolenz: related to putting in more details around the track buffers 15:30:29 ... updating the frame processing algorithm 15:30:43 ... determine whether it is possible to 15:30:52 May be related to https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=27242 15:31:19 a/MattWolenz:/MattWolenetz:/ 15:31:24 s/MattWolenz:/MattWolenetz:/ 15:32:14 paulc: sounds like this is related to bug 27472 related to track buffer ranges 15:32:27 MattWolenetz: related but not blocking 15:32:43 ... probably just put firward a pull reuqest with my recommendation 15:32:49 topic: Bug 28573 15:32:52 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=28573 15:32:58 MattWolenetz: this was not filed by me 15:33:17 https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=28573 15:33:31 MattWolenetz: don't think the networks state is what the writer thinks it is 15:33:59 paulc: so you will propose a response? 15:34:02 MattWolenetz: yes 15:34:11 topic: MSE test suite status 15:34:27 paulc: At the F2F Matt you said you would take a look 15:34:30 See F2F discussion: http://www.w3.org/2015/04/16-html-media-minutes.html#item01 15:34:50 MattWolenetz: I have been prodded, have it on my plate 15:35:20 ... Cyrils message does not tell me how to run -- 15:35:35 paulc: think we talked about a mtg, saw an email from you, will leave in your hands 15:36:20 topic: NEW EME issues 15:36:34 paulc: 5 new issues 15:36:44 topic: ISSUE-50 - Remove recommendation for distinct keys for distinct policies 15:36:53 https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/50 15:37:04 ddorwin: Pull requests use up numbers BTW 15:38:07 markw: I saw this recommendation, I don't recall ever agreeing to this recommendation 15:38:21 ... it is certainly one approach but some constraints make this impractical 15:38:32 ... some devices in the field do not support multiple keys 15:38:42 ... we need to be able to reuse existing streams 15:38:51 ... so I think we should remove this recommendation 15:38:55 q+ 15:39:00 ack dd 15:39:07 ddorwin: updating the bug now 15:39:24 ... this is related to issue 22 -- it is a non-normative note 15:39:31 https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/22 15:39:38 ... you are not forced to follow, but it will provide the best interop 15:39:48 ... I will post an update in the spec 15:39:51 q+ 15:40:00 ack joe 15:41:01 q+ 15:41:05 joesteele: I would recommend we do not include author recommendations in the spec 15:41:11 ... maybe move into a separate document 15:41:21 ack markw 15:41:26 ... non-normative text would clutter up the spec 15:42:13 markw: I was just noticing this text. There is a note in issue 22 about this being committed, during the discussion. This seems controversial. 15:42:25 ... also agree with Joe that it might be better to have this advice elsewhere 15:42:56 paulc: David has given folks a ptr and patially answred Marks question, He said he will update the issue. 15:43:25 ddorwin: Just to be clear, this note does not disallow what Mark wants, it just points out that this will impact interop 15:43:50 markw: what you just said is different than the note, with evidence I would not object to providing that type of recommendation 15:44:18 ... havign different keys definitely has a security advantage and explaining that would be good 15:44:34 topic: ISSUE-51 - Remove steps associated with cross-origin or non-clearable identifiers, as these are not allowed 15:44:41 https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/51 15:45:23 markw: another thing I noticed where some steps were included prior to us not allowing these things. 15:45:38 ... now probably not needed since you would be clearly non-compliant 15:45:44 paulc: commnets? 15:46:09 ddorwin: as long as we specify that it is not allowed and that we know there will be babd behaviors, I agree this is wierd 15:46:25 ... I think we could reformat the whole thing 15:46:31 s/babd/bad/ 15:46:48 ddorwin: I think there will be EME implementors who violate the first condition 15:47:11 markw: but now the spec is contradictory, one piece says it is allowd but another piece might indicate it is allowed 15:47:24 ddorwin: I don't care strongly about this, just explaining why it is where it is 15:47:37 paulc: sounds like no disagreement that a change is needed 15:47:48 ... we can leave this with the editors 15:48:00 topic: ISSUE-52 - Remove reference to keys in Initialization Data definition 15:48:08 https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/52 15:48:36 + +1.425.677.aadd 15:48:50 Related to ACTION-87: Carry out steps 1 thru 6 on the proposed solution to issue-41 [on Joe Steele - due 2015-04-23]. 15:48:54 ACTION-87? 15:48:54 ACTION-87 -- Joe Steele to Carry out steps 1 thru 6 on the proposed solution to issue-41 -- due 2015-04-30 -- CLOSED 15:48:54 http://www.w3.org/html/wg/media/track/actions/87 15:48:55 joesteele: this text should be very clear, suggesting to remove one clause in the sentence 15:48:56 zakim, aadd is me 15:48:56 +MattWolenetz; got it 15:49:08 q+ 15:49:09 -MattWolenetz 15:49:15 paulc: since we had concensus at the F2F we should not have much time on this 15:49:18 ack dd 15:49:28 ddorwin: I think this is blocked on the next bug 15:50:24 joesteele: I thought the blocked was the other way 15:50:50 ddorwin : the reason the keys was there is that there is no support in the spec for process keys 15:51:04 ... we are missing the text for how do we process keys 15:51:35 https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/41 15:51:37 joesteele: this is the older bug https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/41 15:52:15 joesteele: I don't have rights to add labels to the issues 15:52:42 paulc: think the understanding is that issue 41 has evolved, and as David said 41 and 52 must be resolved to gether 15:53:07 markw: W3C sent invitations which should give you extra rights on github 15:53:12 paulc: think that was just editors 15:53:25 ... but I will not let that stand in the way of progress 15:53:53 topic: ISSUE-53 - Allow for long-lived key encryption keys (aka "master" keys) to increase performance 15:53:59 https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/53 15:55:08 spun out from https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/41 and blocks https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/52 15:55:13 q+ 15:55:28 joesteele: this is the use case I think is useful to include in the spec. It was spun out from Issue 41. It does not have fully specified text as yet -- just requirements 15:55:43 ddorwin: have not had a chance to look yet 15:55:58 ack jdsmith 15:56:22 jdsmith: it look like you are proposing master keys are persistent regardless of whether the session is persistent or not 15:56:34 ... David has argued in terms of the clarity 15:59:13 joesteele: Ideally these keys would be invisible to the application. Making them fit the persistent session model would be good because it would allow the app to remvoe the keys, but would require some mechanism for exposing the keys to the app 15:59:23 ... that does not seem necessary 15:59:40 topic: ISSUE-55 - Clarify that "resources" in close() method refers to non-persisted data 15:59:45 https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/55 15:59:46 https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/55 16:00:07 paulc: sounds like agreement from folks here 16:00:15 ... do editors know what they need to do? 16:00:20 yes 16:00:32 jdsmith: think that it is clar 16:00:39 s/clar/clear/ 16:00:49 topic: Next Mtg? 16:00:55 paulc: next week? two weeks? 16:01:00 ddorwin: can't make next week 16:01:07 paulc: will meet in 2 weeks then 16:01:17 I may not be a able to make it in two weeks time 16:01:20 ... Matt can you make next week for MSE? 16:01:37 MattWolenetz: yes 16:01:46 paulc: EME is 2 weeks then 16:01:53 rrsagent: draft minutes 16:01:53 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/05-html-media-minutes.html joesteele 16:01:56 -BobLund 16:02:00 rrsagent, generate minutes 16:02:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/05-html-media-minutes.html paulc 16:02:08 markw: might not make next mtg then 16:02:14 paulc: thanks for scribing! 16:02:20 ... bye all 16:02:22 rrsagent: draft minutes 16:02:22 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/05-html-media-minutes.html joesteele 16:02:36 -markw 16:02:37 -davide 16:02:37 -joesteele 16:02:38 -MattWolenetz.a 16:02:38 -ddorwin 16:02:40 -paulc 16:02:40 -jdsmith 16:02:53 davide has left #html-media 16:03:56 s/Marks info/Mark's info/ 16:05:03 s/reuqest/request/ 16:05:12 s/firward/forward/ 16:05:30 s/Cyrils/Cyril's/ 16:06:04 s/answred/answered/ 16:06:37 s/to gether/together/ 16:07:08 s/remvoe/remove/ 16:07:39 disconnecting the lone participant, geguchi, in HTML_WG()11:00AM 16:07:41 HTML_WG()11:00AM has ended 16:07:41 Attendees were markw, MattWolenetz, ddorwin, +1.408.536.aaaa, +1.415.832.aabb, joesteele, davide, paulc, geguchi, jdsmith, BobLund, +1.303.661.aacc, +1.425.677.aadd 16:08:10 rrsagent: draft minutes 16:08:10 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/05/05-html-media-minutes.html joesteele 16:08:29 Zakim, bye 16:08:29 Zakim has left #html-media 16:08:40 rrsagent: make log public 16:08:47 rrsagent: bye 16:08:47 I see no action items