IRC log of svg on 2015-04-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

20:28:30 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #svg
20:28:30 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/23-svg-irc
20:28:32 [trackbot]
RRSAgent, make logs public
20:28:32 [Zakim]
Zakim has joined #svg
20:28:34 [trackbot]
Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
20:28:34 [Zakim]
ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGWG()4:30PM already started
20:28:35 [trackbot]
Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
20:28:35 [trackbot]
Date: 23 April 2015
20:28:37 [Zakim]
+krit
20:29:05 [Zakim]
+Thomas_Smailus
20:29:17 [Zakim]
+??P3
20:29:20 [heycam]
Zakim, ??P3 is me
20:29:20 [Zakim]
+heycam; got it
20:29:37 [heycam]
Chair: Cameron
20:29:46 [heycam]
Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2015Apr/0044.html
20:30:04 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:30:13 [ed]
Zakim, [IP is me
20:30:13 [Zakim]
+ed; got it
20:30:14 [Zakim]
+??P4
20:31:34 [Zakim]
+??P5
20:31:42 [stakagi]
zakim, ??P5 is me
20:31:42 [Zakim]
+stakagi; got it
20:31:50 [Tav]
Zakim, ??P4 is me
20:31:50 [Zakim]
+Tav; got it
20:33:28 [heycam]
Zakim, who is on the call?
20:33:28 [Zakim]
On the phone I see krit, Thomas_Smailus, heycam, ed, Tav, stakagi
20:33:54 [Zakim]
-stakagi
20:34:17 [Zakim]
+??P6
20:34:21 [Zakim]
+??P5
20:34:23 [nikos_]
Zakim, ??P6 is me
20:34:23 [Zakim]
+nikos_; got it
20:34:38 [stakagi]
zakim,??P5 is me
20:34:38 [Zakim]
+stakagi; got it
20:35:29 [Zakim]
+??P7
20:35:50 [heycam]
Zakim, pick a scribe
20:35:50 [Zakim]
Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose heycam
20:36:20 [stakagi]
i also
20:36:36 [Zakim]
-heycam
20:37:05 [Zakim]
+[IPcaller]
20:37:07 [heycam]
Zakim, [ is me
20:37:07 [Zakim]
+heycam; got it
20:37:12 [stakagi]
yes
20:37:45 [heycam]
Scribe: Cameron
20:38:01 [heycam]
Topic: June F2F
20:38:19 [heycam]
ed: I'll be leaving Opera soon
20:38:26 [heycam]
... this won't have any effect on the June F2F
20:38:30 [heycam]
... so it'll take place as planned
20:38:36 [heycam]
... the details will be worked out; we'll still host
20:38:39 [heycam]
... I will be taking part
20:38:50 [heycam]
... I won't be representing Opera at the time
20:38:55 [heycam]
... I encourage everyone to register if you haven't already
20:39:28 [ed]
http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Linkoping_2015
20:39:34 [ed]
https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/19480/Linkoping2015
20:40:26 [heycam]
Topic: Telcon day
20:40:32 [Zakim]
+??P8
20:40:37 [heycam]
heycam: please fill in this form if you haven't already
20:40:43 [heycam]
http://doodle.com/8mfbynbh3rkr3myb
20:40:43 [AmeliaBR]
zakim, ??P8 is me
20:40:43 [Zakim]
+AmeliaBR; got it
20:41:01 [heycam]
Zakim, who is making noise?
20:41:13 [Zakim]
heycam, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: ed (90%), AmeliaBR (90%)
20:41:41 [heycam]
Topic: CORS in SVG
20:41:45 [heycam]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2015Mar/0139.html
20:42:10 [heycam]
ed: I was assigned a bug on someone requesting to be able to use the <use> element for referencing cross-origin resources
20:42:21 [heycam]
... and I looked at that, and checked how hard it would be to implement
20:42:26 [heycam]
... and did some preliminary work in Blink on that
20:42:39 [heycam]
... I'd like to propose that we add the crossorigin="" attribute on every element that loads external resources
20:42:46 [heycam]
... and enable CORS in SVG just like it is in HTML
20:43:03 [heycam]
... this would make it possible to reference external things in the <use> element if you have the crossorigin="" attribute on it
20:43:13 [heycam]
krit: feImage already has the crossorigin="" attribute as well
20:43:44 [heycam]
AmeliaBR: it allows cross origin references if the external file has the right HTTP headers, is that right?
20:43:59 [heycam]
... I'm not certain what the current state is. is this restating the default or adding a new option?
20:44:13 [heycam]
ed: yes you do need in some cases to add the attribuet and to have the corresponding header sent for the external resources
20:44:27 [heycam]
... for <use> I think it's a bit special, as no browser allows you to fetch cross origin references
20:44:31 [heycam]
... otoh <img> allows it by default
20:44:36 [heycam]
... so the defaults are different per element
20:44:44 [heycam]
... I don't think we want to allow cross origin <use> by default
20:45:03 [heycam]
... so we would require <use crossorigin=""> and for the HTTP header there
20:45:10 [heycam]
AmeliaBR: so the server and the author both have to opt in?
20:45:11 [heycam]
ed: yes
20:45:32 [Zakim]
+[Microsoft]
20:45:54 [heycam]
... script and image are two, feImage, use
20:46:07 [heycam]
... and for foreignObject we haven't decided if it has href, but if it does, then it would need the attribute too
20:46:26 [heycam]
AmeliaBR: what about other elements adopting from HTML like iframe?
20:46:40 [heycam]
ed: yes, the attribute is already there
20:46:44 [heycam]
... we shouldn't need to change anything there
20:46:56 [heycam]
... but for audio/video it already has the crossorigin attribute
20:48:08 [Rossen]
zakim, microsoft is me
20:48:08 [Zakim]
+Rossen; got it
20:48:14 [heycam]
heycam: a little wary of this with use / resource documents, but at first glance it seems ok
20:48:35 [heycam]
AmeliaBR: if you <use> an element, there are complications like defining whether script runs etc.
20:49:22 [Zakim]
-nikos_
20:49:41 [heycam]
heycam: what's the next step?
20:49:59 [heycam]
ed: the attribute is added to some of these elements in Blink already, and it works, and I think we should make sure these work in SVG just like in HTML
20:50:07 [Zakim]
+??P6
20:50:14 [heycam]
... I did write up a few tests, but it's difficult to publish as you need the server side changes as well
20:50:14 [nikos_]
Zakim, ??P6 is me
20:50:14 [Zakim]
+nikos_; got it
20:50:23 [heycam]
... I could put some examples on my personal server
20:50:52 [heycam]
... so the next step should be adding text to the spec if we agree it's a good idea, and I'd be happy to do that
20:53:46 [heycam]
RESOLUTION: We'll add crossorigin attribute on script, image, use.
20:53:57 [heycam]
ACTION: Erik to add spec text for crossorigin attribute on script, image, use.
20:53:57 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-3781 - Add spec text for crossorigin attribute on script, image, use. [on Erik Dahlström - due 2015-04-30].
20:56:40 [heycam]
Topic: Layout properties
20:56:47 [heycam]
krit: I won't have time in the next 2 months to look at this
20:57:03 [heycam]
ed: in Blink I implemented these, and enabled in Canary builds
20:57:10 [heycam]
... I didn't run in to any really troublesome issues
20:57:33 [heycam]
... there were a few things with nested SVG elements, but they were just Blink specific issues
20:57:40 [heycam]
... I think this chapter is fine
20:57:51 [heycam]
AmeliaBR: there is one issue in the spec that relates to how these apply to text elements; how have you dealt with that?
20:58:03 [AmeliaBR]
https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/geometry.html#issue1
20:58:26 [heycam]
krit: in WebKit I just made x/y properties not apply to text
20:58:28 [heycam]
ed: I did the same thing
20:59:13 [heycam]
AmeliaBR: I was looking forward to those being properties for text, but I can understand that it might not be the highest priority
20:59:39 [heycam]
ed: in Sydney we discussed this. I think it's safer for the moment not to treat them as presentation attributes for the moment on text.
20:59:52 [ed]
s/ed:/krit:/
20:59:53 [heycam]
AmeliaBR: my concern is that we don't want to get into any corners where that extension can't happen in the future
21:00:19 [heycam]
... don't want to make a multi value syntax break if we accept that in the future, though CSS error handling rules would cover that
21:00:54 [heycam]
krit: would need to check the F2F minutes
21:02:29 [heycam]
krit: I will check and bring it back up next week
21:02:51 [heycam]
krit: if we can reassign this chapter to someone else that'd be good
21:03:47 [heycam]
Rossen: I'll take the chapter for now
21:03:54 [heycam]
... there's only that one issue in the chapter at the moment
21:04:15 [heycam]
AmeliaBR: there is also the issue about width/height we discussed previously
21:04:23 [heycam]
Rossen: I believe I already have an action for that on me
21:05:32 [Zakim]
-nikos_
21:05:52 [Zakim]
+??P6
21:05:56 [nikos_]
Zakim, ??P6 is me
21:05:56 [Zakim]
+nikos_; got it
21:06:58 [Rossen]
https://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Chapter_Assessment
21:07:00 [heycam]
Topic: issues listed under "needing discussion"
21:07:19 [heycam]
Rossen: issue 8 in rendering.html
21:07:44 [heycam]
nikos: this was done, just haven't updated the wiki
21:10:18 [jcraig]
jcraig has joined #svg
21:10:26 [heycam]
Topic: Paths chapter issues
21:10:35 [Rossen]
https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/paths.html#issue4
21:10:58 [heycam]
Rossen: the issue is talking about limitations of line limits
21:11:04 [heycam]
... and whether or not this is even an issue
21:11:15 [heycam]
... anyone here produce tools? :)
21:11:23 [heycam]
Tav: we don't limit ourselves to 255 characters
21:11:43 [heycam]
AmeliaBR: the spec says there things for improving readability, but as for limitations I don't know
21:11:52 [heycam]
Rossen: currently we have normative text that says no line should exceed 255 characters
21:12:08 [heycam]
... and we are in 2015, so you would hope those limitations are lifted by now
21:12:13 [ed]
I agree
21:12:18 [heycam]
krit: I didn't know we have this limitation. I know that illustrator does limit its output.
21:12:28 [heycam]
... there were some issues with ASV a long time ago
21:12:44 [heycam]
Rossen: one way to solve it is to just drop the restrictions
21:12:52 [heycam]
nikos: surely there is plenty of content that violates this already
21:13:05 [heycam]
Rossen: so let's resolve on removing that part of the sentence and then move on
21:13:15 [heycam]
AmeliaBR: keep the first bit about being able to break into lines?
21:13:21 [heycam]
krit: yes but we don't need normative text for that
21:13:44 [heycam]
RESOLUTION: Remove the requirement to limit line lengths to 255 characters.
21:13:58 [heycam]
ACTION: Rossen to remove the 255 character line limit.
21:13:59 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-3782 - Remove the 255 character line limit. [on Rossen Atanassov - due 2015-04-30].
21:14:15 [Rossen]
https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/paths.html#issue6
21:14:18 [heycam]
Rossen: next is issue 6
21:14:57 [heycam]
Rossen: this is about allowing tension parameters to be specified in the catmull-rom splines
21:15:06 [heycam]
krit: didn't we resolve to put that in a separate spec about paths?
21:16:01 [AmeliaBR]
https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2015Feb/0033.html
21:16:20 [heycam]
AmeliaBR: as it is in the spec at the moment, it's not implementable
21:17:34 [AmeliaBR]
ACTION-3745 - Move catmull-rom to svg path module [on Cameron McCormack - due 2015-02-20]
21:17:42 [heycam]
heycam: I'll get on that action
21:18:18 [heycam]
heycam: so let's not resolve the tension issue right now
21:18:49 [heycam]
AmeliaBR: I think the rest of the issues in the path chapter do all relate to catmull-rom
21:19:38 [heycam]
Topic: embedded content chapter
21:19:45 [Rossen]
https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/embedded.html#issue2
21:19:49 [heycam]
Rossen: there are three issues here
21:20:57 [heycam]
krit: the issue is asking about pAR in image, isn't that already supported?
21:21:02 [heycam]
AmeliaBR: it's the other ones like video, iframe, etc.
21:21:11 [heycam]
... but there is the object-fit property in CSS, that would duplicate / extend pAR
21:21:19 [Zakim]
-nikos_
21:21:29 [heycam]
krit: I don't think we should add pAR to video, iframe
21:21:35 [ed]
I agree with krit here
21:22:01 [Zakim]
+??P6
21:22:14 [heycam]
heycam: in light of our plan to use the HTML elements rather than import them into SVG, we shouldn't be adding pAR on them anyway
21:22:28 [heycam]
AmeliaBR: I like object-fit more than pAR anyway
21:22:33 [heycam]
birtles: we did discuss the differences though
21:22:48 [heycam]
Tav: would be odd for authors that image differs but iframe/video doesn't
21:23:41 [heycam]
heycam: we already have had this situation with SVG image differenting from HTML for ages
21:23:49 [heycam]
krit: but it is image vs HTML's img
21:24:43 [heycam]
heycam: I think someone needs to write a concrete proposal for how we're doing the HTML element integration here
21:25:39 [heycam]
ACTION: Cameron to write up concrete proposal for handling embedded content HTML elements in SVG
21:25:40 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-3783 - Write up concrete proposal for handling embedded content html elements in svg [on Cameron McCormack - due 2015-04-30].
21:26:52 [heycam]
https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/embedded.html#issue3
21:27:04 [heycam]
AmeliaBR: this is specific to image, and referencing of other SVG images
21:27:25 [heycam]
heycam: what's the general way that clip and clip-path interact?
21:28:10 [heycam]
krit: clip applies to viewport-creating elements
21:28:37 [heycam]
heycam: what happens when you use both on a viewport-creating element? they intersect?
21:28:39 [heycam]
krit: yes exactly
21:29:40 [heycam]
AmeliaBR: to address the issue about why clip being overridden makes sense, clip applies to the element region, while clip-path applies in the SVG coordinate system
21:29:51 [heycam]
krit: why would clip and clip-path take different coordinate systems?
21:30:14 [heycam]
AmeliaBR: I have no idea why you'd use clip on a root element anyway, but it applies to the region you're putting the SVG in
21:30:56 [heycam]
heycam: it'd be great to have some tests here to see whether clip actually works here
21:31:20 [heycam]
krit: clip doesn't do anything in WebKit or Blink for SVG elements
21:31:37 [heycam]
Rossen: it's currently specified to apply to viewport-establishing elements
21:31:45 [heycam]
krit: yes, but in WebKit we don't
21:32:37 [jcraig_]
jcraig_ has joined #svg
21:32:45 [heycam]
ACTION: Amelia to produce test cases for clip regarding embedded.html#issue3
21:32:46 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-3784 - Produce test cases for clip regarding embedded.html#issue3 [on Amelia Bellamy-Royds - due 2015-04-30].
21:33:00 [heycam]
AmeliaBR: we should discourage the use of clip anyway
21:34:16 [Zakim]
-Thomas_Smailus
21:34:22 [Zakim]
-ed
21:34:23 [Zakim]
-heycam
21:34:24 [Zakim]
-birtles
21:34:25 [Zakim]
-??P6
21:34:25 [Zakim]
-stakagi
21:34:26 [Zakim]
-krit
21:34:26 [Zakim]
-Rossen
21:34:30 [Zakim]
-Tav
21:34:34 [Zakim]
-AmeliaBR
21:34:35 [heycam]
RRSAgent: make minutes
21:34:35 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/23-svg-minutes.html heycam
21:34:36 [Zakim]
GA_SVGWG()4:30PM has ended
21:34:36 [Zakim]
Attendees were krit, Thomas_Smailus, heycam, [IPcaller], ed, stakagi, Tav, nikos_, AmeliaBR, birtles, Rossen
21:36:45 [heycam]
Present: Dirk, Thomas, Cameron, Erik, Satoru, Tav, Nikos, Amelia, Brian, Rossen
21:36:46 [heycam]
RRSAgent: make minutes
21:36:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/23-svg-minutes.html heycam
21:59:13 [jcraig]
jcraig has joined #svg
22:09:14 [jcraig_]
jcraig_ has joined #svg
22:28:13 [jcraig]
jcraig has joined #svg
22:30:39 [jcraig]
jcraig has joined #svg
22:45:06 [jcraig]
jcraig has joined #svg
23:07:10 [jcraig]
jcraig has joined #svg
23:10:02 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #svg
23:16:58 [jcraig_]
jcraig_ has joined #svg
23:22:40 [shepazu]
shepazu has joined #svg
23:56:56 [jcraig]
jcraig has joined #svg