20:28:30 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #svg
20:28:30 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/23-svg-irc
20:28:32 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
20:28:32 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #svg
20:28:34 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be GA_SVGWG
20:28:34 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see GA_SVGWG()4:30PM already started
20:28:35 <trackbot> Meeting: SVG Working Group Teleconference
20:28:35 <trackbot> Date: 23 April 2015
20:28:37 <Zakim> +krit
20:29:05 <Zakim> +Thomas_Smailus
20:29:17 <Zakim> +??P3
20:29:20 <heycam> Zakim, ??P3 is me
20:29:20 <Zakim> +heycam; got it
20:29:37 <heycam> Chair: Cameron
20:29:46 <heycam> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2015Apr/0044.html
20:30:04 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:30:13 <ed> Zakim, [IP is me
20:30:13 <Zakim> +ed; got it
20:30:14 <Zakim> +??P4
20:31:34 <Zakim> +??P5
20:31:42 <stakagi> zakim, ??P5 is me
20:31:42 <Zakim> +stakagi; got it
20:31:50 <Tav> Zakim, ??P4 is me
20:31:50 <Zakim> +Tav; got it
20:33:28 <heycam> Zakim, who is on the call?
20:33:28 <Zakim> On the phone I see krit, Thomas_Smailus, heycam, ed, Tav, stakagi
20:33:54 <Zakim> -stakagi
20:34:17 <Zakim> +??P6
20:34:21 <Zakim> +??P5
20:34:23 <nikos_> Zakim, ??P6 is me
20:34:23 <Zakim> +nikos_; got it
20:34:38 <stakagi> zakim,??P5 is me
20:34:38 <Zakim> +stakagi; got it
20:35:29 <Zakim> +??P7
20:35:50 <heycam> Zakim, pick a scribe
20:35:50 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose heycam
20:36:20 <stakagi> i also
20:36:36 <Zakim> -heycam
20:37:05 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
20:37:07 <heycam> Zakim, [ is me
20:37:07 <Zakim> +heycam; got it
20:37:12 <stakagi> yes
20:37:45 <heycam> Scribe: Cameron
20:38:01 <heycam> Topic: June F2F
20:38:19 <heycam> ed: I'll be leaving Opera soon
20:38:26 <heycam> ... this won't have any effect on the June F2F
20:38:30 <heycam> ... so it'll take place as planned
20:38:36 <heycam> ... the details will be worked out; we'll still host
20:38:39 <heycam> ... I will be taking part
20:38:50 <heycam> ... I won't be representing Opera at the time
20:38:55 <heycam> ... I encourage everyone to register if you haven't already
20:39:28 <ed> http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/F2F/Linkoping_2015
20:39:34 <ed> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/19480/Linkoping2015
20:40:26 <heycam> Topic: Telcon day
20:40:32 <Zakim> +??P8
20:40:37 <heycam> heycam: please fill in this form if you haven't already
20:40:43 <heycam> http://doodle.com/8mfbynbh3rkr3myb
20:40:43 <AmeliaBR> zakim, ??P8 is me
20:40:43 <Zakim> +AmeliaBR; got it
20:41:01 <heycam> Zakim, who is making noise?
20:41:13 <Zakim> heycam, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: ed (90%), AmeliaBR (90%)
20:41:41 <heycam> Topic: CORS in SVG
20:41:45 <heycam> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2015Mar/0139.html
20:42:10 <heycam> ed: I was assigned a bug on someone requesting to be able to use the <use> element for referencing cross-origin resources
20:42:21 <heycam> ... and I looked at that, and checked how hard it would be to implement
20:42:26 <heycam> ... and did some preliminary work in Blink on that
20:42:39 <heycam> ... I'd like to propose that we add the crossorigin="" attribute on every element that loads external resources
20:42:46 <heycam> ... and enable CORS in SVG just like it is in HTML
20:43:03 <heycam> ... this would make it possible to reference external things in the <use> element if you have the crossorigin="" attribute on it
20:43:13 <heycam> krit: feImage already has the crossorigin="" attribute as well
20:43:44 <heycam> AmeliaBR: it allows cross origin references if the external file has the right HTTP headers, is that right?
20:43:59 <heycam> ... I'm not certain what the current state is. is this restating the default or adding a new option?
20:44:13 <heycam> ed: yes you do need in some cases to add the attribuet and to have the corresponding header sent for the external resources
20:44:27 <heycam> ... for <use> I think it's a bit special, as no browser allows you to fetch cross origin references
20:44:31 <heycam> ... otoh <img> allows it by default
20:44:36 <heycam> ... so the defaults are different per element
20:44:44 <heycam> ... I don't think we want to allow cross origin <use> by default
20:45:03 <heycam> ... so we would require <use crossorigin=""> and for the HTTP header there
20:45:10 <heycam> AmeliaBR: so the server and the author both have to opt in?
20:45:11 <heycam> ed: yes
20:45:32 <Zakim> +[Microsoft]
20:45:54 <heycam> ... script and image are two, feImage, use
20:46:07 <heycam> ... and for foreignObject we haven't decided if it has href, but if it does, then it would need the attribute too
20:46:26 <heycam> AmeliaBR: what about other elements adopting from HTML like iframe?
20:46:40 <heycam> ed: yes, the attribute is already there
20:46:44 <heycam> ... we shouldn't need to change anything there
20:46:56 <heycam> ... but for audio/video it already has the crossorigin attribute
20:48:08 <Rossen> zakim, microsoft is me
20:48:08 <Zakim> +Rossen; got it
20:48:14 <heycam> heycam: a little wary of this with use / resource documents, but at first glance it seems ok
20:48:35 <heycam> AmeliaBR: if you <use> an element, there are complications like defining whether script runs etc.
20:49:22 <Zakim> -nikos_
20:49:41 <heycam> heycam: what's the next step?
20:49:59 <heycam> ed: the attribute is added to some of these elements in Blink already, and it works, and I think we should make sure these work in SVG just like in HTML
20:50:07 <Zakim> +??P6
20:50:14 <heycam> ... I did write up a few tests, but it's difficult to publish as you need the server side changes as well
20:50:14 <nikos_> Zakim, ??P6 is me
20:50:14 <Zakim> +nikos_; got it
20:50:23 <heycam> ... I could put some examples on my personal server
20:50:52 <heycam> ... so the next step should be adding text to the spec if we agree it's a good idea, and I'd be happy to do that
20:53:46 <heycam> RESOLUTION: We'll add crossorigin attribute on script, image, use.
20:53:57 <heycam> ACTION: Erik to add spec text for crossorigin attribute on script, image, use.
20:53:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3781 - Add spec text for crossorigin attribute on script, image, use. [on Erik Dahlström - due 2015-04-30].
20:56:40 <heycam> Topic: Layout properties
20:56:47 <heycam> krit: I won't have time in the next 2 months to look at this
20:57:03 <heycam> ed: in Blink I implemented these, and enabled in Canary builds
20:57:10 <heycam> ... I didn't run in to any really troublesome issues
20:57:33 <heycam> ... there were a few things with nested SVG elements, but they were just Blink specific issues
20:57:40 <heycam> ... I think this chapter is fine
20:57:51 <heycam> AmeliaBR: there is one issue in the spec that relates to how these apply to text elements; how have you dealt with that?
20:58:03 <AmeliaBR> https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/geometry.html#issue1
20:58:26 <heycam> krit: in WebKit I just made x/y properties not apply to text
20:58:28 <heycam> ed: I did the same thing
20:59:13 <heycam> AmeliaBR: I was looking forward to those being properties for text, but I can understand that it might not be the highest priority
20:59:39 <heycam> ed: in Sydney we discussed this. I think it's safer for the moment not to treat them as presentation attributes for the moment on text.
20:59:52 <ed> s/ed:/krit:/
20:59:53 <heycam> AmeliaBR: my concern is that we don't want to get into any corners where that extension can't happen in the future
21:00:19 <heycam> ... don't want to make a multi value syntax break if we accept that in the future, though CSS error handling rules would cover that
21:00:54 <heycam> krit: would need to check the F2F minutes
21:02:29 <heycam> krit: I will check and bring it back up next week
21:02:51 <heycam> krit: if we can reassign this chapter to someone else that'd be good
21:03:47 <heycam> Rossen: I'll take the chapter for now
21:03:54 <heycam> ... there's only that one issue in the chapter at the moment
21:04:15 <heycam> AmeliaBR: there is also the issue about width/height we discussed previously
21:04:23 <heycam> Rossen: I believe I already have an action for that on me
21:05:32 <Zakim> -nikos_
21:05:52 <Zakim> +??P6
21:05:56 <nikos_> Zakim, ??P6 is me
21:05:56 <Zakim> +nikos_; got it
21:06:58 <Rossen> https://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/WG/wiki/SVG2_Chapter_Assessment
21:07:00 <heycam> Topic: issues listed under "needing discussion"
21:07:19 <heycam> Rossen: issue 8 in rendering.html
21:07:44 <heycam> nikos: this was done, just haven't updated the wiki
21:10:18 <jcraig> jcraig has joined #svg
21:10:26 <heycam> Topic: Paths chapter issues
21:10:35 <Rossen> https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/paths.html#issue4
21:10:58 <heycam> Rossen: the issue is talking about limitations of line limits
21:11:04 <heycam> ... and whether or not this is even an issue
21:11:15 <heycam> ... anyone here produce tools? :)
21:11:23 <heycam> Tav: we don't limit ourselves to 255 characters
21:11:43 <heycam> AmeliaBR: the spec says there things for improving readability, but as for limitations I don't know
21:11:52 <heycam> Rossen: currently we have normative text that says no line should exceed 255 characters
21:12:08 <heycam> ... and we are in 2015, so you would hope those limitations are lifted by now
21:12:13 <ed> I agree
21:12:18 <heycam> krit: I didn't know we have this limitation. I know that illustrator does limit its output.
21:12:28 <heycam> ... there were some issues with ASV a long time ago
21:12:44 <heycam> Rossen: one way to solve it is to just drop the restrictions
21:12:52 <heycam> nikos: surely there is plenty of content that violates this already
21:13:05 <heycam> Rossen: so let's resolve on removing that part of the sentence and then move on
21:13:15 <heycam> AmeliaBR: keep the first bit about being able to break into lines?
21:13:21 <heycam> krit: yes but we don't need normative text for that
21:13:44 <heycam> RESOLUTION: Remove the requirement to limit line lengths to 255 characters.
21:13:58 <heycam> ACTION: Rossen to remove the 255 character line limit.
21:13:59 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3782 - Remove the 255 character line limit. [on Rossen Atanassov - due 2015-04-30].
21:14:15 <Rossen> https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/paths.html#issue6
21:14:18 <heycam> Rossen: next is issue 6
21:14:57 <heycam> Rossen: this is about allowing tension parameters to be specified in the catmull-rom splines
21:15:06 <heycam> krit: didn't we resolve to put that in a separate spec about paths?
21:16:01 <AmeliaBR> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-svg/2015Feb/0033.html
21:16:20 <heycam> AmeliaBR: as it is in the spec at the moment, it's not implementable
21:17:34 <AmeliaBR> ACTION-3745 - Move catmull-rom to svg path    module [on Cameron McCormack - due 2015-02-20]
21:17:42 <heycam> heycam: I'll get on that action
21:18:18 <heycam> heycam: so let's not resolve the tension issue right now
21:18:49 <heycam> AmeliaBR: I think the rest of the issues in the path chapter do all relate to catmull-rom
21:19:38 <heycam> Topic: embedded content chapter
21:19:45 <Rossen> https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/embedded.html#issue2
21:19:49 <heycam> Rossen: there are three issues here
21:20:57 <heycam> krit: the issue is asking about pAR in image, isn't that already supported?
21:21:02 <heycam> AmeliaBR: it's the other ones like video, iframe, etc.
21:21:11 <heycam> ... but there is the object-fit property in CSS, that would duplicate / extend pAR
21:21:19 <Zakim> -nikos_
21:21:29 <heycam> krit: I don't think we should add pAR to video, iframe
21:21:35 <ed> I agree with krit here
21:22:01 <Zakim> +??P6
21:22:14 <heycam> heycam: in light of our plan to use the HTML elements rather than import them into SVG, we shouldn't be adding pAR on them anyway
21:22:28 <heycam> AmeliaBR: I like object-fit more than pAR anyway
21:22:33 <heycam> birtles: we did discuss the differences though
21:22:48 <heycam> Tav: would be odd for authors that image differs but iframe/video doesn't
21:23:41 <heycam> heycam: we already have had this situation with SVG image differenting from HTML for ages
21:23:49 <heycam> krit: but it is image vs HTML's img
21:24:43 <heycam> heycam: I think someone needs to write a concrete proposal for how we're doing the HTML element integration here
21:25:39 <heycam> ACTION: Cameron to write up concrete proposal for handling embedded content HTML elements in SVG
21:25:40 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3783 - Write up concrete proposal for handling embedded content html elements in svg [on Cameron McCormack - due 2015-04-30].
21:26:52 <heycam> https://svgwg.org/svg2-draft/embedded.html#issue3
21:27:04 <heycam> AmeliaBR: this is specific to image, and referencing of other SVG images
21:27:25 <heycam> heycam: what's the general way that clip and clip-path interact?
21:28:10 <heycam> krit: clip applies to viewport-creating elements
21:28:37 <heycam> heycam: what happens when you use both on a viewport-creating element? they intersect?
21:28:39 <heycam> krit: yes exactly
21:29:40 <heycam> AmeliaBR: to address the issue about why clip being overridden makes sense, clip applies to the element region, while clip-path applies in the SVG coordinate system
21:29:51 <heycam> krit: why would clip and clip-path take different coordinate systems?
21:30:14 <heycam> AmeliaBR: I have no idea why you'd use clip on a root element anyway, but it applies to the region you're putting the SVG in
21:30:56 <heycam> heycam: it'd be great to have some tests here to see whether clip actually works here
21:31:20 <heycam> krit: clip doesn't do anything in WebKit or Blink for SVG elements
21:31:37 <heycam> Rossen: it's currently specified to apply to viewport-establishing elements
21:31:45 <heycam> krit: yes, but in WebKit we don't
21:32:37 <jcraig_> jcraig_ has joined #svg
21:32:45 <heycam> ACTION: Amelia to produce test cases for clip regarding embedded.html#issue3
21:32:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-3784 - Produce test cases for clip regarding embedded.html#issue3 [on Amelia Bellamy-Royds - due 2015-04-30].
21:33:00 <heycam> AmeliaBR: we should discourage the use of clip anyway
21:34:16 <Zakim> -Thomas_Smailus
21:34:22 <Zakim> -ed
21:34:23 <Zakim> -heycam
21:34:24 <Zakim> -birtles
21:34:25 <Zakim> -??P6
21:34:25 <Zakim> -stakagi
21:34:26 <Zakim> -krit
21:34:26 <Zakim> -Rossen
21:34:30 <Zakim> -Tav
21:34:34 <Zakim> -AmeliaBR
21:34:35 <heycam> RRSAgent: make minutes
21:34:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/23-svg-minutes.html heycam
21:34:36 <Zakim> GA_SVGWG()4:30PM has ended
21:34:36 <Zakim> Attendees were krit, Thomas_Smailus, heycam, [IPcaller], ed, stakagi, Tav, nikos_, AmeliaBR, birtles, Rossen
21:36:45 <heycam> Present: Dirk, Thomas, Cameron, Erik, Satoru, Tav, Nikos, Amelia, Brian, Rossen
21:36:46 <heycam> RRSAgent: make minutes
21:36:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/23-svg-minutes.html heycam
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