12:47:56 RRSAgent has joined #sdw 12:47:56 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/22-sdw-irc 12:48:03 RRSAgent, make logs public 12:48:15 meeting: SDW WG Weekly 12:48:31 kerry has joined #sdw 12:48:48 zakim, this is sdw 12:48:48 sorry, kerry, I do not see a conference named 'sdw' in progress or scheduled at this time 12:49:13 zakim, who is on the phone 12:49:13 I don't understand 'who is on the phone', kerry 12:49:25 Kerry - hang on. We have to set up an ad hoc which i'll do nearer the top of the hour 12:49:35 ChrisLittle has joined #sdw 12:49:35 zakim, who is on the phone? 12:49:35 sorry, kerry, I don't know what conference this is 12:49:35 It's because the zamim booking hasn't changed to this new time yet 12:49:37 On IRC I see ChrisLittle, kerry, RRSAgent, Zakim, danbri1, phila, trackbot 12:49:44 no wories 12:49:54 (Zakim thinks we're meeting in 12 hours' time or so) 12:50:12 regrets+ Linda van den Brink, John Machin, Rachel Heaven 12:50:53 chhirs? 12:50:56 chris? 12:51:02 how would you like to scribe today? 12:51:20 chrislittle -- would you like to scribe? 12:52:13 ChrisLittle: would u like to scribe???? 12:52:41 zakim, room for 20? 12:52:42 ok, phila; conference Team_(sdw)12:52Z scheduled with code 73994 (SDWWG) for 60 minutes until 1352Z 12:52:54 zakim, this is swd 12:52:54 sorry, kerry, I do not see a conference named 'swd' in progress or scheduled at this time 12:53:01 zakim, this is sdw 12:53:01 kerry, I see Team_(sdw)12:52Z in the schedule but not yet started. Perhaps you mean "this will be sdw". 12:53:12 zakim, this will be sdw 12:53:12 ok, kerry; I see Team_(sdw)12:52Z scheduled to start now 12:53:59 Team_(sdw)12:52Z has now started 12:54:04 ahaller2 has joined #sdw 12:54:06 +[IPcaller] 12:54:35 zakim, +[IP is me 12:54:35 sorry, kerry, I do not recognize a party named '+[IP' 12:54:50 zakim, [IP is me 12:54:50 +kerry; got it 12:55:00 q? 12:55:19 zakim, who is on the phone? 12:55:19 On the phone I see kerry 12:55:42 Armin, would u like to scribe???? 12:56:17 *ahaller2, would u like to scribe? 12:56:21 +[IPcaller] 12:56:33 zakim, [ is me 12:56:33 +phila; got it 12:56:50 Frans has joined #sdw 12:56:51 kerry? 12:57:11 hi kerry, not today, i am only on my phone (internet) 12:57:15 eparsons has joined #sdw 12:57:19 +??P11 12:57:21 will do next time 12:57:28 zakim, P11 is me 12:57:28 sorry, Frans, I do not recognize a party named 'P11' 12:57:29 ta, armin 12:57:37 zakim, ??P11 is me 12:57:37 +Frans; got it 12:57:49 zakim, thanks for understanding 12:57:49 I don't understand 'thanks for understanding', Frans 12:57:55 ChrisLittle: are u there? 12:57:56 JoshLieberman has joined #sdw 12:57:56 jtandy has joined #sdw 12:58:18 LarsG has joined #sdw 12:58:36 + +1.857.919.aaaa 12:58:47 zakim, aaaa is me 12:58:47 +JoshLieberman; got it 12:59:02 +[IPcaller] 12:59:12 +eparsons 12:59:12 ClemensPortele has joined #sdw 12:59:13 billroberts has joined #sdw 12:59:20 +??P15 12:59:21 scribe: JoshLieberman 12:59:29 zakim, ??P15 is me 12:59:29 +jtandy; got it 12:59:36 scribenick: JoshLieberman 12:59:44 + +61.4.303.7.aabb 12:59:58 +??P18 12:59:58 zakim, who is on the phone? 13:00:00 On the phone I see kerry, phila, Frans, JoshLieberman, [IPcaller], eparsons, jtandy, +61.4.303.7.aabb, ??P18 13:00:08 +??P19 13:00:14 zakim, ??P18 is me 13:00:14 +ClemensPortele; got it 13:00:15 ebremer has joined #sdw 13:00:27 Alejandro_Llaves has joined #sdw 13:00:31 zakim, ??P19 is me 13:00:31 +LarsG; got it 13:00:31 big ugly beep? 13:00:33 zakim, who is noisy? 13:00:36 -[IPcaller] 13:00:43 -LarsG 13:00:44 phila, listening for 10 seconds I could not identify any sounds 13:00:45 can anyone else still hear on the line? 13:00:48 +[IPcaller] 13:00:58 +[IPcaller.a] 13:01:00 zakim, [IPcaller] is me 13:01:00 +billroberts; got it 13:01:07 zakim, who is noisy? 13:01:15 I don hear many meaningful sounds 13:01:17 kerry, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: Frans (15%), JoshLieberman (10%) 13:01:26 +??P20 13:01:28 +[IPcaller] 13:01:36 zakim, ??P20 is me 13:01:36 +LarsG; got it 13:01:39 MattPerry has joined #sdw 13:01:43 +??P22 13:01:44 I have just muted myself 13:01:51 zakim, [IPCaller] is me 13:01:51 +Alejandro_Llaves; got it 13:01:52 zakim, please mute me 13:01:53 LarsG should now be muted 13:02:00 zakim, who is here? 13:02:00 On the phone I see kerry, phila, Frans, JoshLieberman, eparsons, jtandy, +61.4.303.7.aabb, ClemensPortele, billroberts, [IPcaller.a], LarsG (muted), Alejandro_Llaves, ??P22 13:02:04 On IRC I see MattPerry, Alejandro_Llaves, ebremer, billroberts, ClemensPortele, LarsG, jtandy, JoshLieberman, eparsons, Frans, ahaller2, ChrisLittle, kerry, RRSAgent, Zakim, 13:02:04 ... danbri1, phila, trackbot 13:02:15 + +1.631.444.aacc 13:02:21 zakim, +61 is me 13:02:21 +ahaller2; got it 13:02:31 + +1.603.897.aadd 13:02:36 Alejandro and me joined at about same time 13:02:41 I think I was first and am IPcaller 13:02:42 Adila has joined #sdw 13:02:43 zakim, aadd is me 13:02:43 +MattPerry; got it 13:02:45 zakin, 1.631.444.aacc is me 13:02:47 and Ale is .a I think? 13:02:52 not 100% sure! 13:02:57 zakim, 1.631.444.aacc is me 13:02:57 sorry, ebremer, I do not recognize a party named '1.631.444.aacc' 13:02:57 zakim, who is on the phone? 13:02:58 On the phone I see kerry, phila, Frans, JoshLieberman, eparsons, jtandy, ahaller2, ClemensPortele, billroberts, [IPcaller.a], LarsG (muted), Alejandro_Llaves, ??P22, 13:02:58 ... +1.631.444.aacc, MattPerry 13:03:00 stlemme has joined #sdw 13:03:19 zakim, aacc is ebremer 13:03:19 +ebremer; got it 13:03:24 zakim, who is here? 13:03:24 On the phone I see kerry, phila, Frans, JoshLieberman, eparsons, jtandy, ahaller2, ClemensPortele, billroberts, [IPcaller.a], LarsG (muted), Alejandro_Llaves, ??P22, ebremer, 13:03:25 zakim, [IPcaller.a] is me 13:03:26 tks 13:03:28 ... MattPerry 13:03:28 On IRC I see stlemme, Adila, MattPerry, Alejandro_Llaves, ebremer, billroberts, ClemensPortele, LarsG, jtandy, JoshLieberman, eparsons, Frans, ahaller2, ChrisLittle, kerry, 13:03:28 ... RRSAgent, Zakim, danbri1, phila, trackbot 13:03:28 +Adila; got it 13:03:36 sorry phil, which one you said? 13:03:40 AndreaPerego has joined #sdw 13:03:46 +??P25 13:03:51 SimonCox has joined #sdw 13:04:21 zakim, +??P25 is me 13:04:21 sorry, stlemme, I do not recognize a party named '+??P25' 13:04:30 + +39.033.278.aaee 13:04:30 zakim, ??P25 is me 13:04:30 +stlemme; got it 13:04:53 + +44.207.800.aaff 13:05:00 - +39.033.278.aaee 13:05:16 zakim aaff is ChrisLittle 13:05:32 zakim, who is here? 13:05:32 On the phone I see kerry, phila, Frans, JoshLieberman, eparsons, jtandy, ahaller2, ClemensPortele, billroberts, Adila, LarsG (muted), Alejandro_Llaves, ??P22, ebremer, MattPerry, 13:05:36 ... stlemme, +44.207.800.aaff 13:05:36 On IRC I see SimonCox, AndreaPerego, stlemme, Adila, MattPerry, Alejandro_Llaves, ebremer, billroberts, ClemensPortele, LarsG, jtandy, JoshLieberman, eparsons, Frans, ahaller2, 13:05:36 ... ChrisLittle, kerry, RRSAgent, Zakim, danbri1, phila, trackbot 13:05:41 zakim, aaff is ChrisLittle 13:05:41 +ChrisLittle; got it 13:05:59 + +61.3.925.2.aagg 13:06:29 Yes 13:06:31 yes 13:06:34 Kerry recommends following the instructions on the meeting page: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Meetings:Telecon20150422 13:06:35 yes, I can here you 13:06:37 zakim, aagg is me 13:06:37 +SimonCox; got it 13:06:45 zakim, mute me 13:06:45 Adila should now be muted 13:06:54 minutes http://www.w3.org/2015/04/15-sdw-minutes.html 13:07:06 +1 13:07:10 +1 13:07:12 +1 13:07:15 +1 13:07:18 + +39.033.278.aahh 13:07:19 +1 to minutes 13:07:22 +1 13:07:24 PROPOSED: Accept lasty week's minutes http://www.w3.org/2015/04/15-sdw-minutes.html 13:07:25 zakim,+39.033.278.aahh is me 13:07:25 +AndreaPerego; got it 13:07:30 RESOLVED: Accept lasty week's minutes http://www.w3.org/2015/04/15-sdw-minutes.html 13:07:32 +1 13:07:34 +1 13:07:39 s/laty/last/ 13:07:46 s/lasty/last/ 13:07:57 Topic: Process call 13:08:00 https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Patent_Call 13:08:01 Jitao has joined #sdw 13:08:19 s/lasty/last 13:08:41 Topic: Timing, new members 13:09:11 Jitao: Introduces himself... 13:09:11 CoryHenson has joined #sdw 13:09:17 jitao? say hello? 13:09:28 yes 13:09:38 q? 13:09:39 chair: Kerry 13:09:59 cperey has joined #sdw 13:10:07 +Christine_Perey 13:10:09 kerry: Jitao is from the Chinese Academy of Sciences 13:10:10 jitao: from the Chinese Academy of Science 13:10:39 I think an introduction by e-mail is OK too? 13:10:39 topic: use case document 13:10:58 latest version http://w3c.github.io/sdw/UseCases/SDWUseCasesAndRequirements.html 13:11:00 CoryHenson has joined #sdw 13:11:09 q+ 13:11:10 kerry: editors will show us what the document looks like and plans to complete 13:11:15 +q 13:11:15 ack frans 13:11:23 http://w3c.github.io/sdw/UseCases/SDWUseCasesAndRequirements.html 13:11:26 q? 13:12:06 frans: document still in development. core is list of use cases (complete except for two complex ones) and requirements 13:12:46 frans: document introduction is fairly complete as well. 13:13:25 Frans: comments invited on Chapters 1-4 13:13:59 q+ 13:14:17 Frans: Action: review use cases that each submitted 13:14:58 Frans: focusing now on requirements and relation to the use cases 13:15:03 ack Alejandro_Llaves 13:16:04 Alejandro_Llaves: also looking to cross-reference requirements and deliverables 13:16:31 +q 13:16:49 -ebremer 13:17:01 Alejandro_Llaves: mailing list discussion on filtering and refining requirements is useful 13:17:16 +ebremer 13:17:36 q? 13:17:43 ack ChrisLittle 13:18:38 what is link to the spreadsheet to which Chris is referring? 13:18:43 ChrisLittle: will send an update on requirements from their use cases. Also need to clarify some more obscure key words / phrases 13:19:07 link to spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PSnpJYQDgsdgZgPJEfUU0EhVfgFFYGc1WL4xUX9Dunk/edit?usp=sharing 13:19:28 kerry: some definitions are in my head and need to be contributed... 13:19:45 I think that all use case contributors should go through and suggest requirements that fit ... I will do so for my two UCs 13:20:08 spreadsheet https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1PSnpJYQDgsdgZgPJEfUU0EhVfgFFYGc1WL4xUX9Dunk/edit?pli=1#gid=0 13:20:18 -q 13:20:28 q? 13:20:35 Frans: document is still very much in process 13:20:59 q+ 13:21:01 kerry: any comments on the structure and approach of the document? 13:21:01 q? 13:21:08 acj jtandy 13:21:14 ack jtandy 13:21:34 +q 13:21:45 q? 13:21:53 A clarification: especially the requirements and and linking ucs and reqs are a work in progress 13:22:08 s/and and/and/ 13:22:09 jtandy: the cross-references seem to work well in the document. Requirements probably are not complete yet. 13:22:13 ack SimonCox 13:22:34 15 requirements is still a lot! Very rich set of things on which to work for years to come 13:22:59 SimonCox: more requirements coming? 13:23:00 q? 13:23:39 Frans: probably yes, more requirements and therefore more cross-links 13:23:47 q+ 13:23:50 q? 13:23:56 ack JoshLieberman 13:24:53 q? 13:25:16 JoshLieberman: will the requirements include those that may not be essentially spatial but not well covered elsewhere? 13:25:43 q+ to answer Josh on non-spatial Reqs 13:25:46 +q 13:25:54 Frans: some of the "non-functional" requirements may be included among these. 13:26:06 ack phila 13:26:06 phila, you wanted to answer Josh on non-spatial Reqs 13:27:02 phila: "non-spatial" requirements should be documented in document, but also communicated to the Data on the Web group as well. 13:27:14 +1 phil's comments 13:27:14 ack 13:27:23 ack kerry 13:27:24 q+ 13:27:29 kerry: example? 13:27:44 q? 13:27:52 q+ 13:27:59 +1 non-func requirements section 13:28:09 About requirements overlapping with DWBP ones, some are recorded here: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/BP_Requirements 13:28:22 @phila: Are SSN requirements non-spatial? 13:28:26 ack frans 13:28:41 No, they're in scope of this WG, SimonCox 13:29:00 JoshLieberman: appropriate links / identifiers may be an example of non-spatial but essential for our use cases 13:29:05 q+ to ask about how we will collect example datasets to support the use casess? 13:29:08 ack clemens 13:29:10 Interesting ... arguably much 'data' is generated by sensors 13:29:57 q+ 13:30:05 ClemensPortele: may be overlap with Data on the Web requirements, but need clarification in our context 13:30:08 q? 13:30:13 q+ 13:30:15 ack jtandy 13:30:15 jtandy, you wanted to ask about how we will collect example datasets to support the use casess? 13:30:59 jtandy: real data examples can be very useful in delineating use cases. Is there a plan for collecting datasets? 13:31:23 zakim, who is noisy? 13:31:34 jtandy, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: kerry (34%), eparsons (20%), jtandy (34%) 13:31:35 q? 13:31:42 ack phila 13:31:48 kerry: definitely want them. include with use case on wiki if they are available 13:31:56 jtandy: some may be quite large 13:32:09 very important point. Yes about Phil's point 13:32:37 Can we have a wiki page listing datasets? 13:32:45 that the use of data demonstrates rigor and tests the robustness of solutions 13:32:46 phila: access to datasets shows a rigor that is very useful. Also, the DotW group will also be meeting in Japan. 13:33:10 q? 13:33:13 Note: lots of support for datasets attached to usecases 13:33:20 ack eparsons 13:33:41 q? 13:34:00 We could ask for more links to datasets in use cases? 13:34:05 eparsons: make sure requirements are linked back to specific use cases to keep them "grounded" and help with prioritization 13:34:15 q? 13:34:19 +1 to req ranking 13:34:22 q+ 13:34:22 +1 to eparsons 13:34:26 q? 13:34:31 ack frans 13:35:05 +1 13:35:07 +1 to Frans 13:35:11 Frans: some use cases have links to resources, even datasets. we should encourage more links to datasets. 13:35:18 +1 to frans 13:35:24 +1 13:35:50 +1 13:36:01 q+ to ask about putting datasets on github repo 13:36:17 q? 13:36:24 ack jtandy 13:36:24 jtandy, you wanted to ask about putting datasets on github repo 13:36:34 kerry: how to handle datasets? 13:36:50 +1 to Jeremy 13:36:55 jtandy: useful to manage datasets on GitHub and link from wiki or use case document 13:36:58 +1 tp github suggestion 13:37:07 +1 to github 13:37:07 q? 13:37:13 +1 to github suggestion 13:37:14 s/tp/to/ 13:37:17 q? 13:37:55 https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Working_Use_Cases#Various_Sensor_Use_Cases_.28SSN.29 13:37:57 kerry: returning to complex use cases relating to SSN and IoT. 13:38:03 https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Working_Use_Cases#.22101.22_Smart_City_Use-cases 13:39:15 kerry: should probably bring SSN use cases over directly, since SSN update is a deliverable here 13:39:22 q? 13:39:26 +q on collections of use cases 13:39:29 +1 to kerry ... the SSN use cases need to appear here ... 13:39:37 ack Alejandro_Llaves 13:39:37 Alejandro_Llaves, you wanted to comment on collections of use cases 13:39:45 [sorry - my battery is about to run out] 13:40:26 -SimonCox 13:40:32 q+ complex ucs 13:40:33 Alejandro_Llaves: Frans idea to select out the SSN / IoT use cases that suffice to tie in requirements. 13:40:39 q+ 13:40:39 q? 13:40:56 q- complex 13:41:00 q- ucs 13:41:50 kerry: selection may apply for IoT use cases, but SSN use cases are already somewhat filtered to support SSN requirements 13:42:05 q? 13:42:28 action: payam to summaries reqs from 101 use cases 13:42:28 Created ACTION-20 - Summaries reqs from 101 use cases [on Payam Barnaghi - due 2015-04-29]. 13:42:42 stlemme has joined #sdw 13:42:45 q? 13:43:04 ack Frans 13:43:09 action: kerry to check ssn use cases and requirements 13:43:09 Created ACTION-21 - Check ssn use cases and requirements [on Kerry Taylor - due 2015-04-29]. 13:43:10 SimonCox_ has joined #sdw 13:43:18 ack frans 13:43:24 [fresh battery!] 13:44:44 When I get back with voice I want to ask question about implied extension of scope for SSN and Time deliverables 13:44:49 Frans: good practice has been for the whole use case group to evaluate each case, but IoT collection was too large to do this with. Summaries would be helpful. 13:44:52 action: payam to summarise 101 use cases 13:44:52 Created ACTION-22 - Summarise 101 use cases [on Payam Barnaghi - due 2015-04-29]. 13:45:08 q+ SimonCox to ask question about implied extension of scope for SSN and Time deliverables 13:45:50 Kerry: action-22 is to both summarize and check requirements for IoT use cases. 13:46:00 sorry all, have to leave early to catch a train. Will check minutes 13:46:09 -billroberts 13:46:24 +SimonCox 13:46:35 q? 13:46:43 ack siimon 13:46:44 kerry: IoT use cases are not connected into the requirements yet. 13:47:06 ack Si 13:47:06 SimonCox, you wanted to ask question about implied extension of scope for SSN and Time deliverables 13:47:14 +1 13:47:22 zakim, who is noisy? 13:47:36 Alejandro_Llaves, listening for 11 seconds I heard sound from the following: jtandy (13%) 13:47:36 zakim, who is noisy? 13:47:48 kerry, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: SimonCox (14%), jtandy (5%) 13:47:55 q? 13:47:59 q+ 13:48:06 +q on scope of reqs 13:48:15 SimonCox: two deliverables are based on existing W3C docs, with potentially expanded scope. Concern to define the scope more precisely by examining requirements so time doesn't inflate indefinitely 13:48:16 q? 13:48:42 I do think that it is important that we manage the scope of the deliverables going forward 13:48:50 q+ 13:48:52 q? 13:48:58 ack frans 13:49:03 q+ 13:49:04 kerry: should scope those two deliverables based on most important requirements 13:49:27 kerry: should be able to estimate "bang for buck" in scope 13:49:38 q? 13:49:43 q+ 13:49:44 ack Alejandro_Llaves 13:49:45 Alejandro_Llaves, you wanted to comment on scope of reqs 13:49:46 q- 13:50:34 For example: 'sampling features' is an important, relatively discrete extension to SSN. But may be delegated to a separate project (though in practice we have found that most observation projects require it!) 13:50:36 +1 to JoshLieberman "bang for buck" 13:51:00 +1 to SimonCox_ 's comment about SamplingFeatures 13:51:47 Alejandro_Llaves: work on defining requirements is leading to some being identified as more general and applicable to more use cases than originally conceived. 13:51:56 ack ChrisLittle 13:52:21 aq? 13:52:24 q? 13:52:49 ack frans 13:52:50 ChrisLittle: not that worried about scope "creep" because scope hasn't yet been addressed and will be. 13:52:53 +1 ChrisLittle 13:53:10 -eparsons 13:53:29 +1 to ChrisLittle ... we manage our scope during prioritisation activity when we review the requirements list resulting from assessment of the use cases 13:53:32 sorry cut off 13:53:42 q? 13:54:16 Frans: excluding requirements from present work is not eliminating them from importance - so requirements delineated but not addressed will still be a useful result 13:54:49 q? 13:54:53 kerry: very much in scope to describe work for a follow-on working group 13:55:39 q? 13:56:17 kerry: some discussion and confusion on principles out of best practice discussion 13:56:51 Are principles on Wiki? 13:57:11 Are non-functional requirements on Wiki? 13:57:25 kerry: principles help describe what we are trying to do. should discuss further next week. 13:57:55 kerry: putting things in the action tracker a good way to make them visible 13:57:59 q? 13:58:25 s/action tracker/issue tracker/ 13:58:39 Having trouble with zakim letting me back on voice :-( 13:58:39 +1 timing 13:58:40 +1 for the new time 13:58:41 Not so good for the Australians 13:58:42 thank you for the new time! 13:58:42 +1 time 13:58:45 +1 time 13:58:51 +1 for new time 13:58:52 I need to depart to another call. 13:58:58 But I'm in Liverpool this week 13:59:00 zakim, bye 13:59:00 leaving. As of this point the attendees were kerry, phila, Frans, +1.857.919.aaaa, JoshLieberman, eparsons, jtandy, +61.4.303.7.aabb, ClemensPortele, LarsG, billroberts, 13:59:00 Zakim has left #sdw 13:59:02 yes, we appreciate everyone's sacrifice! 13:59:03 ... Alejandro_Llaves, +1.631.444.aacc, ahaller2, +1.603.897.aadd, MattPerry, ebremer, Adila, +39.033.278.aaee, stlemme, +44.207.800.aaff, ChrisLittle, +61.3.925.2.aagg, SimonCox, 13:59:03 ... AndreaPerego, Christine_Perey 13:59:06 People do seem to be busier at this time 13:59:07 thanks kerry 13:59:14 bye 13:59:18 bye 13:59:20 Thanks. Bye! 13:59:22 thanks, bye! 13:59:23 bye 13:59:24 bye 13:59:27 JoshLieberman has left #sdw 13:59:30 rrsagen. make logs public 13:59:38 rrsagent, make logs public 13:59:45 Have a good day! 13:59:51 RRSAgent, draft minutes 13:59:51 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/22-sdw-minutes.html phila 14:00:02 sleep well frans! 14:00:12 ChrisLittle has left #sdw 14:00:25 Jitao has left #sdw 14:00:27 zakim, bye 14:00:35 yrb 14:00:38 bye