13:59:09 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tt
13:59:09 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/16-tt-irc
13:59:10 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
13:59:10 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #tt
13:59:12 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be TTML
13:59:12 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 1 minute
13:59:13 <trackbot> Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
13:59:13 <trackbot> Date: 16 April 2015
14:00:28 <Zakim> SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has now started
14:00:36 <Zakim> +nigel
14:00:39 <nigel> Present: nigel
14:00:41 <nigel> chair: nigel
14:00:45 <Frans> Frans has joined #tt
14:00:46 <nigel> scribe: nigel
14:01:01 <nigel> Regrets: dsinger, atai
14:01:06 <Zakim> + +41.22.717.aaaa
14:01:19 <nigel> Regrets+ jdsmith
14:01:24 <nigel> zakim, aaaa is Frans
14:01:24 <Zakim> +Frans; got it
14:03:21 <Zakim> +??P13
14:03:39 <Zakim> + +1.720.897.aabb
14:03:44 <nigel> zakim, ??P13 is tmichel
14:03:44 <Zakim> +tmichel; got it
14:03:51 <glenn> zakim, aabb is me
14:03:52 <Zakim> +glenn; got it
14:05:49 <Zakim> +[Apple]
14:06:02 <courtney> courtney has joined #tt
14:06:17 <nigel> Present+ tmichel, courtney, Frans, glenn
14:07:48 <nigel> nigel: This meeting will likely be action heavy following last week. AOB?
14:07:52 <nigel> group: no AOB
14:08:09 <nigel> i/nigel: This/Topic: This meeting
14:08:50 <nigel> nigel: I haven't managed to fix up the minutes from last week - hopefully I'll be able to do that tomorrow.
14:09:05 <nigel> ... In the meantime did anyone have any changes to make based on the draft minutes?
14:09:10 <nigel> group: No changes
14:09:23 <nigel> nigel: In that case it's mainly a tidying job not an editorial one.
14:10:08 <nigel> nigel: So for today we'll look at actions and I'll set aside some time for WebVTT as there's been progress there.
14:10:12 <pal> pal has joined #tt
14:11:25 <Zakim> + +1.650.458.aacc
14:11:26 <Zakim> -glenn
14:11:37 <nigel> glenn: I'm going to have to drop off this meeting; no progress on actions or issues to report.
14:11:48 <nigel> zakim, aacc is pal
14:11:48 <Zakim> +pal; got it
14:11:49 <pal> zakim, i am aacc
14:11:49 <Zakim> sorry, pal, I do not see a party named 'aacc'
14:13:36 <nigel> Topic: Action items
14:13:50 <nigel> action-378?
14:13:50 <trackbot> action-378 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Draft smpte request including dispositions from action-369 and backgroundcolor initial value question -- due 2015-03-05 -- OPEN
14:13:50 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/378
14:14:45 <nigel> nigel: Pierre has posted a draft for review: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ohVIVM_lcsWooOPIsfnjHS7PnbRdON_ygydgo2V7fB4/edit
14:15:12 <nigel> nigel: Thanks for doing that.
14:15:26 <nigel> pal: Inline space was missing from nigel's draft. Was that just an omission.
14:15:31 <nigel> s/on./on?
14:16:12 <nigel> nigel: No particular reason - most likely I just didn't notice it in the original message from SMPTE.
14:16:39 <nigel> pal: I used the latest message from SMPTE from January that was sent to public-tt rather than the
14:16:47 <nigel> ... earlier one that was sent to member-tt.
14:17:00 <nigel> nigel: That may be the difference then.
14:18:07 <nigel> pal: SMPTE ST428-7 specifies character rotation on any character but the TTML2 spec only allows it on
14:18:20 <nigel> ... on normally horizontal characters in vertical writing modes.
14:19:37 <nigel> nigel: We need to make clear that SMPTE can come back to us if they have use cases that we haven't
14:19:40 <nigel> ... considered.
14:20:54 <nigel> pal: Exactly. We could ask generally for SMPTE's responses or specifically request a request for each item.
14:21:14 <nigel> nigel: I'd like to make it clear that we'd like a response on each item as this is very similar to a request
14:21:20 <nigel> ... for wide review type response.
14:23:27 <nigel> pal: We shouldn't hold open the issues until SMPTE has responded.
14:23:53 <nigel> nigel: Agreed - we should close these issues and if SMPTE or anyone else comes back with new problems
14:23:57 <nigel> ... we can open new issues.
14:24:12 <nigel> pal: [drafts specific request]
14:26:43 <nigel> nigel: The dispositions tool generates email text that looks like:
14:26:48 <nigel> ... "The Working Group's response to your comment is included below.
14:27:21 <nigel> ... Please review it carefully and *let us know by email at [address] if you agree with it or not
14:27:33 <nigel> ... before [date]*.
14:28:12 <nigel> pal: I would keep it less formal and provide this as a heads-up - if SMPTE has formal comments then
14:28:19 <nigel> ... they can send them or wait until wide review.
14:28:49 <nigel> nigel: Yes, the original comments predate the FPWD so they can't be construed as any kind of wide
14:28:56 <nigel> ... review of TTML2, more of TTML1 if anything.
14:29:53 <nigel> nigel: Okay let's keep it less formal for now. Current wording is
14:29:55 <nigel> ... "W3C TTWG looks forward to SMPTE’s feedback on these actions, if any, and to a continued collaboration."
14:32:15 <nigel> pal: I created the inline space text based on my understanding of ipd.
14:33:12 <nigel> nigel: That disposition text looks good to me.
14:33:40 <nigel> ... Since Glenn has written the ipd part of TTML2 it would be good to get his go-ahead for this disposition.
14:33:57 <nigel> Action: glenn Review Disposition text for Inline space/ipd for SMPTE
14:33:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-399 - Review disposition text for inline space/ipd for smpte [on Glenn Adams - due 2015-04-23].
14:34:28 <nigel> nigel: Once that action is complete then in my view we can send this to SMPTE via Mike and close the
14:34:32 <nigel> ... outstanding issues.
14:35:11 <nigel> nigel: I've marked action-378 as pending review.
14:35:28 <nigel> Action-378: Action-399 created specifically for Glenn to review ipd response
14:35:28 <trackbot> Notes added to Action-378 Draft smpte request including dispositions from action-369 and backgroundcolor initial value question.
14:37:38 <nigel> nigel: Let's quickly step through the next actions...
14:38:01 <nigel> nigel: On Action-390 and 391 that's in progress - I'm held up with some CSS issues right now.
14:39:16 <nigel> courtney: I think David Singer has the dispositions for WebVTT covered but haven't talked to him about it re Action-394.
14:39:26 <nigel> nigel: He sent a spreadsheet around earlier in the week.
14:40:21 <nigel> nigel: There's been a bit of email conversation between me, David, Thierry and Silvia about this, offlist.
14:40:33 <nigel> ... So its safe to say progress is being made.
14:41:12 <nigel> tmichel: The Accessibility WG said they're working on the WebVTT review and will come back with a date.
14:41:21 <nigel> ... That was the last message from Julie I think.
14:41:27 <nigel> nigel: So we don't have a date for a date?
14:41:33 <nigel> tmichel: I'll wait a week and then ping them again.
14:42:54 <nigel> issue-397?
14:42:54 <trackbot> Sorry, but issue-397 does not exist.
14:42:57 <nigel> action-397?
14:42:57 <trackbot> action-397 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Prepare cr2 transition version (after closing one remaining issue on imsc 1) -- due 2015-04-17 -- OPEN
14:42:57 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/397
14:43:04 <nigel> pal: On Action-397, we haven't resolved the outstanding issue with begin yet.  I tried to go through
14:43:16 <nigel> ... SMIL and the best I found is that if begin is not specified then it's up to the time container. If you
14:43:34 <nigel> ... recursively follow that all the way to the top, then the begin of body is the begin of the external
14:43:42 <nigel> ... time container. Is that your understanding too?
14:43:44 <nigel> nigel: Yes.
14:45:04 <nigel> pal: I expect to have a resolution to that very shortly.
14:46:06 <nigel> nigel: There is a use case for no begin time, which is when you just want the document to be
14:46:22 <nigel> ... processed as soon as possible. This might happen in live use cases. Of course you don't really know
14:46:40 <nigel> ... when that display time will start.
14:46:55 <nigel> pal: If you have multiple consecutive documents then it's a lot easier if you specify begin times.
14:47:24 <nigel> nigel: Right, but that does give the container freedom to resolve the begin and end of each document.
14:48:55 <nigel> nigel: Maybe we should leave IMSC 1 as it is or add a note saying that if you have a time container
14:49:59 <nigel> ... then watch out for the unresolvable time scenario.
14:50:42 <nigel> pal: Alternately an external time container that says 'start at 5s' should define when t=0 is.
14:51:26 <nigel> nigel: For me, I think requiring a begin time is a bit too limiting, but highlighting the danger would be good.
14:53:50 <nigel> pal: Okay then a note highlighting the time resolution feature of TTML and the potential danger could
14:53:54 <nigel> ... be the way to go.
14:54:11 <nigel> nigel: You could say that time containers that only indicate 'start playing 5s in' should treat the
14:54:28 <nigel> ... resolved begin time as 'now - 5s' and step in as though that had happened.
14:55:08 <nigel> pal: I'll draft something suggesting that an absent begin should be treated as begin at 0.
14:55:15 <nigel> nigel: I'm happy to review that when I see the wording.
14:56:12 <nigel> issue-382?
14:56:12 <trackbot> issue-382 -- Require a computed non-indefinite begin time -- open
14:56:12 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/382
14:56:23 <nigel> nigel: By the way, that discussion above related to issue-382.
14:57:14 <Zakim> -tmichel
14:57:17 <Zakim> -[Apple]
14:57:22 <Zakim> -Frans
14:57:29 <nigel> Topic: WebVTT
14:57:46 <nigel> nigel: I just want to make sure that there's an opportunity to raise any further WebVTT points not already
14:57:49 <nigel> ... raised?
14:57:56 <nigel> courtney: Not from me just now.
14:58:43 <nigel> nigel: We have no AOB, so I'll adjourn now. Thanks everyone! [adjourns meeting]
14:58:47 <nigel> rrsagent, make logs public
14:58:51 <nigel> rrsagent, generate minutes
14:58:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/16-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:07:14 <Zakim> -nigel
15:07:16 <Zakim> -pal
15:07:16 <Zakim> SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has ended
15:07:16 <Zakim> Attendees were nigel, +41.22.717.aaaa, Frans, +1.720.897.aabb, tmichel, glenn, [Apple], +1.650.458.aacc, pal
15:09:30 <nigel> s/issue-397?/
15:09:45 <nigel> s/trackbot: Sorry, but issue-397 does not exist./
15:10:58 <nigel> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:10:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/16-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:11:41 <nigel> s/Sorry, but issue-397 does not exist./
15:11:43 <nigel> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:11:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/16-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:12:21 <nigel> s/Sorry, but issue-397 does not exist./
15:12:24 <nigel> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:12:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/16-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:13:17 <nigel> s|s/trackbot: /|
15:13:18 <nigel> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:13:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/16-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:13:56 <nigel> ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
15:13:57 <nigel> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:13:57 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/16-tt-minutes.html nigel
16:21:15 <nigel> nigel has joined #tt
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