17:01:22 RRSAgent has joined #social 17:01:22 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/14-social-irc 17:01:24 RRSAgent, make logs public 17:01:24 RRSAgent, make logs public 17:01:24 Zakim has joined #social 17:01:26 Zakim, this will be SOCL 17:01:26 Zakim, this will be SOCL 17:01:26 ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM scheduled to start now 17:01:26 if people like that, I'm happy to change our page to be more like that 17:01:27 Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference 17:01:27 Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference 17:01:27 Date: 14 April 2015 17:01:27 Date: 14 April 2015 17:01:27 ok, trackbot_; I see T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM scheduled to start now 17:01:33 AnnB has joined #social 17:01:36 woah 17:01:57 double the trackbots? 17:01:57 double trackbot double the fun 17:02:05 rhiaro summoned the bots a little too well 17:02:20 trackbot_ bye 17:02:29 trackbot_, bye 17:02:35 It's the Doublemint Trackbot Twins 17:02:41 o/ 17:02:59 hmm 17:03:04 Zakim, who is on the call? 17:03:04 T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has not yet started, aaronpk 17:03:05 On IRC I see AnnB, Zakim, RRSAgent, jasnell, tantek, jperrault, trackbot_, cwebber2, wilkie, shepazu, oshepherd, nickstenn, Arnaud, KevinMarks, elf-pavlik, bret, kylewm, rhiaro, 17:03:05 ... JakeHart, bigbluehat, dwhly, Loqi, melvster, ben_thatmustbeme, aaronpk, mattl, ElijahLynn, Tsyesika, sandro, wseltzer, trackbot 17:03:05 Zakim, who is on the phone? 17:03:09 zakim, this is socl 17:03:09 T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has not yet started, tantek 17:03:09 On IRC I see AnnB, Zakim, RRSAgent, jasnell, tantek, jperrault, trackbot_, cwebber2, wilkie, shepazu, oshepherd, nickstenn, Arnaud, KevinMarks, elf-pavlik, bret, kylewm, rhiaro, 17:03:09 Zakim, mute me 17:03:10 ... JakeHart, bigbluehat, dwhly, Loqi, melvster, ben_thatmustbeme, aaronpk, mattl, ElijahLynn, Tsyesika, sandro, wseltzer, trackbot 17:03:10 ok, Arnaud; that matches T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM 17:03:10 ben_thatmustbeme should now be muted 17:03:13 yeah zakim didn't report anyone on the phone 17:03:14 haha 17:03:17 did not yet start eh 17:03:17 Zakim, what time is it? 17:03:17 I don't understand your question, aaronpk. 17:03:20 Zakim, who is on the call? 17:03:20 On the phone I see Ann, cwebber2, +1.978.537.aaaa, aaronpk, Arnaud, ??P8, ben_thatmustbeme (muted), ??P10, [IPcaller] 17:03:25 Zakim, IPcaller is me 17:03:25 +wilkie; got it 17:03:26 there we go 17:03:35 -??P10 17:03:39 I am on the call, was invited by jasnell 17:03:45 Zakim, does anyone really know what time it is 17:03:45 I don't understand 'does anyone really know what time it is', cwebber2 17:03:51 zakim, ??P8 is me 17:03:51 +tantek; got it 17:03:52 nobody really cares clearly 17:03:53 thanks for joining @jperrault 17:03:55 zakim, mute me 17:03:56 tantek should now be muted 17:03:59 I'll dial in in a few minutes 17:03:59 nice 17:04:01 +??P7 17:04:02 +Sandro 17:04:04 zakim, unmute me 17:04:06 tantek should no longer be muted 17:04:35 zakim, aaaa is jperrault 17:04:35 +jperrault; got it 17:04:37 +??P12 17:04:42 Zakim, ??P12 is me 17:04:42 +Tsyesika; got it 17:04:46 Zakim, mute me 17:04:46 Tsyesika should now be muted 17:04:55 Zakim, unmute me 17:04:55 Tsyesika should no longer be muted 17:05:15 Zakim, who is on the call? 17:05:15 On the phone I see Ann, cwebber2, jperrault, aaronpk, Arnaud, tantek, ben_thatmustbeme (muted), wilkie, rhiaro (muted), Sandro, Tsyesika 17:05:24 Zakim, mute me 17:05:24 Tsyesika should now be muted 17:05:42 +jasnell 17:06:09 jperrault++ I hear you are working on the test framework 17:06:11 jperrault has 1 karma 17:06:18 +eprodrom 17:06:24 I can scribe 17:06:34 :) 17:06:42 scribenick wilkie 17:06:50 if you're planning to be at F2F in Paris, but haven't put your name on the list... please do so: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-05-04 17:07:01 scribe: wilkie 17:07:02 scribenick: wilkie 17:07:04 consistency! 17:07:16 vs mixedCase :) 17:07:39 zakim, who is on the call 17:07:39 I don't understand 'who is on the call', tantek 17:07:45 Zakim, who is on the call? 17:07:45 On the phone I see Ann, cwebber2, jperrault, aaronpk, Arnaud, tantek, ben_thatmustbeme (muted), wilkie, rhiaro (muted), Sandro, Tsyesika (muted), jasnell, eprodrom 17:07:53 looks like everyone's ID 17:07:54 tantek, case sensative too 17:07:54 'ed 17:08:00 methinks Zakim needs a little work 17:08:00 TOPIC: approval of the minutes 17:08:09 no objections 17:08:10 oh also the march 10th ones are up now too 17:08:13 tantek: does anybody have objections, fixes, etc to the minutes? 17:08:15 they aren't approved yet? 17:08:38 tantek: let's go ahead and approval the minutes 17:08:53 yup 17:09:06 \o/ 17:09:09 tantek: let's put the march minutes for next week. rhiaro, can you go ahead and put that for the next week for people to review them. 17:09:21 tantek: next meeting is next tuesday, Arnaud will chair. 17:09:25 Arnaud: I cannot actually 17:09:37 tantek: is evan available? 17:09:50 evan: I can 17:10:03 tantek: ok. evan will chair next week and I will be backup 17:10:11 tantek: that takes us to the next f2f which is Paris 17:10:46 tantek: AnnB was noting that we are requesting people sign up and looks like there are 13 participants, 1 pending visas and 2 questionable on funding. that looks like a healthy size of a meeting 17:10:55 tantek: any other questions about the f2f? 17:11:25 AnnB: john can't come, a grad student is coming and is interested in vocabularities. 17:11:34 tantek: if you could add him to the regrets page that would be helpful 17:11:51 AnnB: ok. he just joined, not sure to which group, but I will add him to the regrets page. 17:12:03 b 20 17:12:16 tantek: he is listed as a remote participant though. 17:12:26 AnnB: if he says he is dialing in, then he is dialing in. 17:12:37 s/b 20// 17:12:38 tantek: any other questions? 17:12:58 tantek: I'll be in paris, but I have a conflict and won't be able to even remotely participate 17:13:03 q? 17:13:07 tantek: that's it for the f2f... didn't see anything else come up 17:13:40 tantek: next is tracking actions and issues 17:13:51 q+ 17:13:59 tantek, in order to not take up too much of jperrault's time can we skip tracking of issues until after he gives his demo 17:14:09 issue-18 17:14:09 issue-18 -- We need to know if there are any other products in this space and if there are any dependencies between ldp and opensocial planned in the future? -- raised 17:14:09 http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/18 17:14:09 issue-18 -- We need to know if there are any other products in this space and if there are any dependencies between ldp and opensocial planned in the future? -- raised 17:14:09 http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/18 17:14:20 bye trackbot_ 17:14:22 TOPIC: Actions and Issues 17:14:42 gtfo trackbot_ 17:14:50 tantek: who raised this issue? 17:14:50 -cwebber2 17:15:05 tantek: harry are you on? 17:15:09 AnnB: he has the flu 17:15:18 sorry, got disconnected 17:15:21 reconnecting in a sedc 17:15:27 +1 to closing 17:15:30 tantek: I'm going to propose summary closure of this issue unless somebody has a good reason to keep it 17:15:36 +1 to reject 17:15:36 (helpful to read email for last minute statuses :-) 17:15:44 tantek: looks like a personal todo list item 17:15:49 tantek: let's go ahead and close it 17:15:55 issue-19 17:15:55 issue-19 -- WG communication channel explosion -- raised 17:15:55 issue-19 -- WG communication channel explosion -- raised 17:15:55 http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/19 17:15:55 http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/19 17:16:07 we are avoiding the issue 17:16:30 tantek: (laughs) is this part of the communication problem that we can't communicate on this issue 17:17:07 happy with letting the chairs figure this issue out 17:17:10 evan: my feeling on this issue is that IRC and email and wiki are our canonical communication channels and if there are dropped balls we handled them as needed 17:17:19 don't think it's worth opening the issue 17:17:30 evan: for example, concern that not everybody was reading the mailing list which is fixed by bringing up things in the wiki. 17:17:30 I second jasnell on that one 17:17:33 +1 17:18:20 Proposal: IRC and email and wiki are our canonical communication channels and if there are dropped balls we handled them as needed. For example, concern that not everybody was reading the mailing list which is fixed by bringing up things in the wiki. 17:18:42 +1 17:18:45 +1 17:18:47 +1 17:18:47 +1 17:18:49 +1 17:18:50 +1 17:19:02 evan: +1 17:19:31 RESOLVED: IRC and email and wiki are our canonical communication channels and if there are dropped balls we handled them as needed. For example, concern that not everybody was reading the mailing list which is fixed by bringing up things in the wiki. 17:19:48 AdamB has joined #social 17:19:51 issue-20 17:19:51 issue-20 -- Represent Collections using JSON Text Sequences (RFC 7464) -- raised 17:19:51 issue-20 -- Represent Collections using JSON Text Sequences (RFC 7464) -- raised 17:19:51 http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/20 17:19:51 http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/20 17:20:02 Rhiaro made 2 edits to [[Socialwg/2015-04-21]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83609&oldid=0 17:20:09 trackbot_, bye 17:20:14 tantek: ok. issue 20. I feel like we already talked about this but didn't open it or something. raised by erik 17:20:36 jasnell: this came up in the github tracker as well 17:20:38 +cwebber2 17:20:48 tantek: we don't have to resolve it. just whether or not to keep it 17:21:20 jasnell: there are no current implementations that use json text sequences. unless we have actual implementations we shouldn't open it. 17:21:25 +AdamB 17:21:31 tantek: so we should reject this issue because there are no implementations? 17:21:42 jasnell: yes. if an implementation comes along later, we can revisit 17:21:46 PROPOSAL: Reject issue due to no actual implementation using JSON text sequences. 17:21:57 +1 17:22:00 tantek: any +1 0 -1? 17:22:03 :-D 17:22:05 +1 17:22:08 +1 17:22:09 +1 17:22:10 +1 17:22:13 +1 17:22:15 +1 17:22:21 evan: +1 17:22:29 abstain ... deferring to geeks 17:22:33 RESOLVED: Reject issue 20 due to no actual implementation using JSON text sequences. 17:22:47 issue-25 17:22:47 issue-25 -- What syntax is (syntaxes are) to be used in the social api (eg microformats vs json-ld; form-encoding vs json-ld) -- raised 17:22:47 issue-25 -- What syntax is (syntaxes are) to be used in the social api (eg microformats vs json-ld; form-encoding vs json-ld) -- raised 17:22:47 http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/25 17:22:47 http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/25 17:22:50 +0, seems fine 17:22:54 tantek: the last raised issue: 25. 17:23:25 tantek: great question. don't really know until we see proposals. seems like something the social api will have to answer. 17:23:36 +1 to open 17:23:50 tantek: though elf isn't here, seems like one that is reasonable to open as it is a question we need to answer for the social api 17:23:51 PROPOSAL: Open issue as something that Social API proposals should answer. 17:23:56 +1 to open 17:23:57 +1 17:23:58 +1 17:24:08 +1 to open also 17:24:13 +1 17:24:22 RESOLVED: Open issue 25 as something that Social API proposals should answer. 17:24:28 trackbot, open issue-25 17:24:28 Sorry, tantek, I don't understand 'trackbot, open issue-25'. Please refer to for help. 17:24:28 Sorry, tantek, I don't understand 'trackbot, open issue-25'. Please refer to for help. 17:24:36 q? 17:24:56 q? 17:25:00 ack jasnell 17:25:10 http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/29 17:25:17 -eprodrom 17:25:20 jasnell: I have three items that I marked as pending review. 17:25:40 jasnell: I assumed they would be covered under tracking actions/issues 17:25:46 issue-29 17:25:46 issue-29 -- Removing Activity Types not used by User Stories -- pending review 17:25:46 issue-29 -- Removing Activity Types not used by User Stories -- pending review 17:25:46 http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/29 17:25:46 http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/29 17:25:50 issue-30 17:25:50 issue-30 -- Deprecate "actor" in favor of "attributedTo" -- pending review 17:25:50 issue-30 -- Deprecate "actor" in favor of "attributedTo" -- pending review 17:25:50 http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/30 17:25:50 http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/30 17:25:52 issue-35 17:25:52 issue-35 -- Simplify the Actor Types -- pending review 17:25:52 issue-35 -- Simplify the Actor Types -- pending review 17:25:52 http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/35 17:25:52 http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/35 17:26:15 PROPOSAL: withdraw issue 30 without action. 17:26:20 jasnell: for issue 30 my solution is to simply withdraw it 17:26:41 jasnell: this was to deprecate actor for attributeTo and folks didn't seem to like this. 17:26:55 +1 17:26:55 any objections? 17:27:07 RESOLVED: close issue 30 without action. 17:27:31 tantek: did you want to give the group (wrt 29, 35) some time for review 17:27:53 tantek: is one week enough time? 17:27:58 trackbot_, bye 17:28:35 ACTION ALL, please review issue 29, issue 35, and respective pull requests by 2015-04-21. 17:28:35 Error finding 'ALL,'. You can review and register nicknames at . 17:28:35 Error finding 'ALL,'. You can review and register nicknames at . 17:28:37 jasnell: yep. pull requests are on github. the links are right. 17:28:44 tantek: you can add the links to the pull requests to the issues 17:28:51 jasnell: a week should be long enough 17:29:02 tantek: Does anybody want to claim success on actions/issues? 17:29:08 eprodrom has joined #social 17:29:11 Hello! 17:29:15 tantek: that takes us to activity streams 2.0 in the agenda 17:29:27 TOPIC: Activity Streams 2.0 17:29:28 q+ 17:29:30 https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-04-14#Activity_Streams_2.0 17:29:34 q+ to resolve action-55 thanks to rhiaro 17:29:43 tantek: first thing is the test harness demonstration 17:29:51 Test Harness Demonstration (James Snell and JP Perrault, IBM) 17:29:59 jasnell: jperrault has not participating in the WG before but joined the call today 17:30:03 Alehors made 1 edit to [[Socialwg]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83611&oldid=83606 17:30:04 Rhiaro made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-04-14]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83612&oldid=83598 17:30:18 jasnell: week before last jperrault started working on a basic testing harness that does basic validation of an AS document 17:30:29 jasnell: I can hand it over to him 17:30:48 https://as-test-harness.mybluemix.net/# 17:31:34 jperrault: if you go to the link, what we have here is a node-based service similar to the w3 validator except it validates against the AS2.0 spec 17:32:08 dret has joined #social 17:32:11 jperrault: intent was 3-fold: to validate the json that comes back from a uri you provide, to validate json format, and validate terms from the spec 17:32:38 jperrault: it gives you links that give back valid/invalid json and you can click on them and it will returns errors 17:33:09 tantek: javascript is required for the links? 17:33:31 jperrault: yes, you should enable javascript. you can type the iri in and I can paste some links in irc. 17:33:38 +eprodrom 17:33:49 Thanks, sorry about that 17:34:07 https://as-test-harness.mybluemix.net/as20/displayname1 17:34:35 jperrault: the results at the moment also depend on javascript. I will correct that in the next sprint. 17:34:39 q+ 17:34:55 jperrault: not much to say except the intent would be to modularize the test to test each of the terms and test specific use cases in the spec 17:35:00 q? 17:35:03 ack jasnell 17:35:04 tantek: thank you for the demo, can we go to the queue for q/a 17:35:10 ack aaronpk 17:35:10 aaronpk, you wanted to resolve action-55 thanks to rhiaro 17:35:19 ack eprodrom 17:35:20 aaronpk: this is unrelated I can wait. 17:35:56 eprodrom: this is interesting. couple questions. one of the things we want to do is test implementations and this seems testing available data, which I guess we could use to test output from libraries or tools we have. 17:36:13 eprodrom: how does this fit if we wanted to test the javascript implementations jasnell has done 17:36:45 jasnell: this is a start that uses that implementation underneath. the intent is to give us something to start with expecting it would need to evolve with api discussions and use cases 17:36:53 q+ 17:36:57 jasnell: this at least gets us a path to a way of testing at least a AS document 17:37:24 eprodrom: I think you might be dropping in and out 17:37:30 eprodrom: one way to see this is if I were to take an implementation and put it so it could be checked with this framework and see the output is valid 17:37:43 Thanks 17:37:43 yay! 17:38:06 jasnell: if you have an endpoint up that publishes AS at a public url, you could give that url and at least see the format is correct 17:38:25 jasnell: to check behaviors we would have to change it quite a bit. we could do it. this only checks the format, right now. 17:38:49 jasnell: the intent is to throw this up on github and make the tests modular so we can add tests as we move along. 17:38:58 q+ to note that if the validator could have direct links to the test examples, then a consuming application could use those as test cases 17:39:06 ack AdamB 17:39:17 like a textarea? 17:39:27 AdamB: what if I don't have a public url to give you. can I run this myself? 17:39:33 could you paste in a chunk of json in a text area? 17:39:42 jperrault: right now it is a node server. you could pull it down and serve it locally. 17:39:45 another option would be to allow for a file upload 17:39:47 example microformats parser that supports both: http://pin13.net/mf2/ 17:40:02 Alehors made 1 edit to [[Socialwg]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=83613&oldid=83611 17:40:06 jasnell: the github url doesn't exist yet. we don't have the space under the w3 area. we could throw it on our personal space for now. 17:40:08 that's what the w3c validator does 17:40:12 tantek: don't wait for process. just ship it. 17:40:18 is there an issue publishing it under a personal account? 17:40:24 jperrault: we do have an IBM space. we have to go through process. 17:40:31 AnnB: harry has to do something? 17:40:45 jasnell: not sure. our internal process should be good and we can get it out this week. 17:40:56 s/harry has to do something?/does it have to be harry that does that?/ 17:41:06 jasnell: very simple vanilla node app. installing it locally should be straightforward 17:41:40 tantek: comment by aaronpk if you could add a textarea for pasting json 17:41:45 jperrault: of course 17:41:53 jperrault++ thank you 17:41:55 q/ 17:41:55 jperrault has 2 karma 17:41:56 tantek: that could help private json validation without a url. 17:41:57 Q? 17:42:01 ack tantek 17:42:01 tantek, you wanted to note that if the validator could have direct links to the test examples, then a consuming application could use those as test cases 17:42:04 jperrault++ 17:42:06 thank you jperrault ! 17:42:06 jperrault has 3 karma 17:42:09 jperrault++ 17:42:11 jperrault has 4 karma 17:42:28 Thanks jperrault ! 17:42:41 tantek: how do we use this to test consuming applications. if all the links you have could just be a-hrefs you could just use those for consuming applications as well 17:42:55 q? 17:42:56 jperrault: I was having too much fun with jQuery 17:42:59 i think we can save feature requests for the github repo :) 17:43:01 tantek: always a dangerous thing 17:43:07 tantek: any more questions about jperrault's validator? 17:43:25 tantek: great work. looking forward to seeing it on github. let's go to the next item. 17:43:32 diconnecting - thank you all. 17:43:50 tantek: open pull requests. jasnell... all these are from you? these need the group's approval? 17:44:07 -jperrault 17:44:08 https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/pull/96 17:44:10 tantek: these were in the agenda for a while for people to review? 17:44:12 https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/pull/95 17:44:14 https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/pull/92 17:44:47 tantek: I think we talked about this last week. unless objections, we should just say you move forward on these. 17:44:58 PROPOSAL accept pull requests 96, 95, 92 17:45:05 +1 17:45:19 +1 17:45:21 +1 17:45:22 +1 17:45:25 +1 17:45:28 +1 17:45:28 -AdamB 17:45:32 -1 17:45:41 Yes 17:45:47 30 se 17:45:49 30 seconds 17:45:50 haha 17:45:50 tantek: eprodrom, you want more time to review? 17:45:59 +1 17:46:01 Thanks 17:46:04 oh thre we go 17:46:06 +1 17:46:16 Sorry, I just wanted to make sure we were doing the ones I though 17:46:18 thought 17:46:19 tantek: alright, we can declare this resolved (laughs) 17:46:24 +1 for all three proposals 17:46:27 RESOLVED: accept pull requests 96, 95, 92 17:46:33 +1 for all three pulls I mean 17:46:49 tantek: next item: open issues from the editor. that's you again jasnell 17:46:49 now Open Issues from the Editor: 17:46:55 issue-26 17:46:55 issue-26 -- Representing profiles in Activity Streams 2.0 -- open 17:46:55 issue-26 -- Representing profiles in Activity Streams 2.0 -- open 17:46:55 http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/26 17:46:55 http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/26 17:47:01 issue-27 17:47:01 issue-27 -- How do we represent changes to a profile in an activity -- open 17:47:01 issue-27 -- How do we represent changes to a profile in an activity -- open 17:47:01 http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/27 17:47:01 http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/27 17:47:07 jasnell: we need a resolution. do we want to add a 'profile' object to the core vocabulary or not 17:47:13 q+ 17:47:18 ack eprodrom 17:47:18 jasnell: we already have 'person' in the vocab. do we need a 'profile' 17:47:22 tantek: evan? 17:48:02 eprodrom: I feel like the Person is enough to justify a Profile, or if there are other kinds of profile, we could use other objects. such as Corporation etc having profiles for. 17:48:18 eprodrom: the biggest issue that a Person having a Profile that people may have other aspects or personalities 17:48:32 a person can have multiple profiles, but maybe persons and profiles don't need to be modelled separately in the vocab (unsure) 17:48:36 eprodrom: for instance, my interest in baseball or poker may have different personalities facing different social areas 17:48:48 eprodrom: I feel like it is a complicated and fine-tuned type of concept that can be mapped on multiple accounts 17:49:05 q+ 17:49:10 eprodrom: my feeling is that requiring that all users have multiple profiles is unnecessarily complex for the general case 17:49:18 tantek: do you have a specific proposal to help resolve the issue 17:49:29 q? 17:49:31 q- 17:49:33 Person class is profile class 17:49:47 eprodrom: my proposal would be to use Person as profile object 17:50:03 PROPOSAL: Use Person as profile object to address issues 26 27 17:50:05 +1 17:50:16 +1 17:50:16 +1 17:50:41 -0 not sure :/ 17:50:52 rhiaro: let's discuss now! 17:50:53 yep 17:50:57 OK, that's good too 17:51:00 -0 not really sure either, the thing I'm concerned about 17:51:08 I'll come up with a counterproposal 17:51:10 is the "multiple personas" type thing that rhiaro brought up on-list 17:51:15 cwebber2: maybe you can help :) 17:51:16 cwebber2: could you bring it up now? 17:51:18 q+ 17:51:34 eprodrom: I would encourage discussion 17:51:47 I'm *not* -1 btw :) 17:51:52 jasnell: the multiple personas thing needs to be considered but gets complex 17:52:20 jasnell: lots of different ways to resolve this issue and it is not clear to me that there needs to be one way to resolve this issue 17:52:20 Updated PROPOSAL: Use Person as profile object to address issues 26 27. Ok to re-open with new information when available, still open to multiple personas e.g. via extension. 17:52:23 I don't have a specific proposal right now. 17:52:26 but 17:52:31 I would like to talk with rhiaro 17:52:37 yep 17:52:37 +1 17:52:38 and find out if we could put one together 17:52:40 yes tantek 17:52:41 thank you 17:52:43 thanks 17:52:45 +1 17:52:52 RESOLVED: Use Person as profile object to address issues 26 27. Ok to re-open with new information when available, still open to multiple personas e.g. via extension. 17:53:01 issue-28 17:53:01 issue-28 -- Remodel "Connect" and "FriendRequest" or Remove them? -- open 17:53:01 issue-28 -- Remodel "Connect" and "FriendRequest" or Remove them? -- open 17:53:01 http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/28 17:53:01 http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/28 17:53:08 tantek: next issue is 28 17:53:49 Arnaud: :) 17:54:13 Arnaud: probably true, in the long run 17:54:15 yes, Arnaud 17:54:35 let's not press tantek into extending this call though :) 17:54:36 facebook still does that, twitter does with following too 17:54:37 q+ 17:54:37 tantek: I have seen connections/friendship/etc as permalinks on things like facebook and seen them on timelines 17:55:01 AnnB: ;) 17:55:04 jasnell: the way it is currently modeled is that friend-request is the verb, which doesn't make much sense. as opposed to creating a connection between me and somebody else. 17:55:08 tantek: there is 'followed' 17:55:34 jasnell: there is a subtle difference and worth exploring. my recommendation is to change them from activity types to object types. instead of friend-request, they'd be a friendship object. 17:55:39 q? 17:55:42 PROPOSAL: Remodel "Connect" and "FriendRequest" as object types 17:55:42 tantek: seems like a reasonable improvement 17:55:48 q? 17:55:52 ack jasnell 17:55:54 ack eprodrom 17:56:24 hm interesting 17:56:34 +1 to connect object I think 17:56:35 eprodrom: the main thing I like about this proposal is that that relationship object can have a whole CRUD lifecycle. it can be created/updated/deleted and that's a nice part of that connection. 17:56:37 having a CRUD lifecycle to an object would be nice 17:56:39 er 17:56:40 to a connection 17:56:41 jeez 17:56:47 AnnB: I agree 17:56:51 eprodrom: it can even have properties that are represented. work-relationship, wife, father, etc. 17:56:56 fwiw I think this meeting is going pretty well 17:57:19 eprodrom +1 agreeing with CRUD aspects of relationships as object types 17:57:24 and I know I've been complain'y about us dragging on communicating about communicating in meetings, I think this one has been hitting important points :) 17:57:31 eprodrom: the only problem I would have is that in general a lot of the semantics of AS is in the activity types / verbs, and would we be losing some part of the social software by doing this. 17:57:47 eprodrom: I think the up-sides outweigh the down-sides. 17:57:47 +1 17:57:49 +1 17:57:50 +1 17:57:52 +1 17:57:55 tantek: I'll take that as a +1. the proposal still stands. no objections? 17:57:56 +1 17:57:56 +1 17:58:02 +1 17:58:06 RESOLVED: Remodel "Connect" and "FriendRequest" as object types per issue 28 17:58:24 I'll like the reshare of the connect object :) 17:58:30 issue-32 17:58:30 issue-32 -- Deprecate "generator" and "provider" -- open 17:58:30 issue-32 -- Deprecate "generator" and "provider" -- open 17:58:30 http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/32 17:58:30 http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/32 17:59:08 q+ 17:59:09 PROPOSAL Deprecate "generator" and "provider" in AS2 17:59:10 jasnell: I've only seen [generator/provider] used for metadata. I want to simplify and move these down. deprecate them. want to see what people think. 17:59:15 ack eprodrom 17:59:46 q+ 17:59:58 eprodrom: I think the big thing about generator/provider.. I'm less concerned about provider.. the generator one plays the same role as an application generator in a facebook stream does. helps identify the application that generated the activity. 18:00:11 so maybe just deprecate provider? 18:00:12 eprodrom: super helpful for the app. if you are farmville, then this is important to you. 18:00:28 eprodrom: would be ok with dropping provider, not generator. wonder why jasnell think's it is not important. 18:00:36 could se way this is something that could be an extension? 18:00:52 we say 18:00:53 not se way 18:00:57 q? 18:00:58 jasnell: I just haven't seen it used in implementations. I've fine if your experience is different. provider is largely redundant. 18:00:59 ack aaronpk 18:01:13 updated PROPOSAL keep Generator, deprecate Provider from AS2 18:01:22 http://aaronparecki.com/notes/2015/04/09/1/pdxcarpet-pdx 18:01:27 i think its a pretty useful item, certainly something we see examples of (facebook does with "via" links) 18:01:33 yeah, I'm going to add crediting applications to my posts, too 18:01:36 aaronpk: I agree with eprodrom on this. the generator is useful to credit the application that was used. I use this to credit applications on my own streams. think it is useful to keep it. 18:01:36 bengo has joined #social 18:01:43 cool, aaronpk 18:01:45 +1 18:01:47 +1 18:01:48 +1 18:01:48 +1 18:01:50 +1 18:01:51 +q 18:01:54 Sorry 18:01:55 +1 18:01:57 q- 18:01:57 +1 sure why not :) 18:01:58 +1 18:02:06 Finger slippage 18:02:14 RESOLVED: keep Generator, deprecate Provider from AS2 per issue 32 18:03:07 i agree 18:03:08 tantek: we have one remaining issue we will move to next week. we have an open issue from elf, but he isn't here. so I say this is a reasonable progress for the hour. we should go for an hour next week as well 18:03:09 +1 18:03:12 +1 18:03:12 tantek: if no objections 18:03:12 +1 18:03:14 +1 18:03:17 +0 :) 18:03:22 Great! Thanks wilkie and tantek 18:03:26 tantek: great. with that, the call will be closed. 18:03:31 -eprodrom 18:03:32 tantek: (some vague praise for wilkie) 18:03:33 -Tsyesika 18:03:34 great meeting everyone, thanks for chairing tantek 18:03:37 and thanks for scribing wilkie 18:03:38 Thanks all 18:03:38 -aaronpk 18:03:40 could you guys look at https://github.com/w3c-social/social-ucr/issues ... make your comments to help resolve objections? 18:03:41 -Arnaud 18:03:44 -jasnell 18:03:46 tantek++ 18:03:49 tantek has 180 karma 18:03:49 wilkie++ 18:03:49 -tantek 18:03:52 wilkie has 8 karma 18:03:55 -rhiaro 18:03:57 thanks a lot tantek .. good chairing 18:04:03 wilkie++ 18:04:06 wilkie has 9 karma 18:04:10 -cwebber2 18:04:12 -wilkie 18:04:16 -Ann 18:04:25 -ben_thatmustbeme 18:04:52 trackbot, end meeting 18:04:52 Zakim, list attendees 18:04:52 Zakim, list attendees 18:04:52 As of this point the attendees have been Ann, cwebber2, +1.978.537.aaaa, aaronpk, Arnaud, ben_thatmustbeme, wilkie, tantek, Sandro, rhiaro, jperrault, Tsyesika, jasnell, eprodrom, 18:04:56 ... AdamB 18:04:56 As of this point the attendees have been Ann, cwebber2, +1.978.537.aaaa, aaronpk, Arnaud, ben_thatmustbeme, wilkie, tantek, Sandro, rhiaro, jperrault, Tsyesika, jasnell, eprodrom, 18:04:56 ... AdamB 18:05:00 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 18:05:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/14-social-minutes.html trackbot 18:05:00 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 18:05:00 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/14-social-minutes.html trackbot_ 18:05:01 RRSAgent, bye 18:05:01 I see no action items 18:05:01 RRSAgent, bye 18:05:01 I see no action items 18:05:46 RRSAgent has joined #social 18:05:46 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/14-social-irc 18:05:57 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 18:05:57 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/14-social-minutes.html Arnaud 18:06:08 damn 18:06:16 two bots and that didn't even work 18:06:48 RRSAgent, make log public 18:07:01 Arnaud, that URL looks reasonable 18:07:01 RRSAgent, generate minutes 18:07:01 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/14-social-minutes.html Arnaud 18:07:05 yeah that one 18:07:17 ah! that worked 18:07:31 ok, we're set 18:07:41 RRSAgent, bye 18:07:41 I see no action items