16:57:27 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ua
16:57:27 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/09-ua-irc
16:57:29 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:57:29 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #ua
16:57:31 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG
16:57:32 <trackbot> Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
16:57:32 <trackbot> Date: 09 April 2015
16:57:33 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM already started
16:58:51 <jeanne> agenda+ joseph response comment
16:59:08 <jeanne> agenda+ documenting implementations
16:59:24 <jeanne> agenda+ exit criteria
17:00:57 <Jan> Jan has joined #ua
17:02:46 <Zakim> +Jim_Allan
17:02:58 <Zakim> +??P3
17:02:59 <allanj> rrsagent, set logs public
17:03:16 <allanj> scribe: allanj
17:03:24 <allanj> Chair: Jim Allan
17:05:31 <allanj> regrets: partial-Kim
17:06:16 <Zakim> +Greg_Lowney
17:06:23 <Greg> Greg has joined #ua
17:07:11 <allanj> agenda?
17:12:16 <allanj> Open item 1
17:12:48 <allanj> topic: Joseph Comment
17:13:08 <allanj> 4.1.6 https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Comment_Response_20_March_2015#Follow_up_comment_from_Joseph_from_1_April_2015
17:14:30 <allanj> joseph - I would make changing states/values level A.
17:14:32 <allanj> Consider any interactive UI such as a combobox, or a slider, or a live region. Surely it's a basic (level A) requirement that if the value of slider changes, or if a chat log changes (live region), then the AT is notified. Accessibility APIs support a whole raft of accessibility events. They don't just store role, states, and properties; they also send out notifications whenever these...
17:14:33 <allanj> ...change. Here are links to changes supported by a11y API event systems: ....
17:14:35 <allanj> Any UA that has a complete implementation of some a11y API service MUST have implemented the event model thereof. Of course, it's up the AT to decide which events it wants to pay attention to, but these 4.1.x rules apply to the UA.
17:17:51 <allanj> jr: remove 4.1.6 bullet - Change state/value notifications as this is already covered in 4.1.2 as a A level
17:19:25 <allanj> RESOLUTION: The change notification is covered in 4.1.2 as a level A success criteria. UAWG removed the bullet "Change state/value notifications" in 4.1.6 as it is redundant and at the wrong level.
17:19:36 <allanj> zakim, close item 1
17:19:36 <Zakim> agendum 1, joseph response comment, closed
17:19:37 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
17:19:37 <Zakim> 2. documenting implementations [from jeanne]
17:21:34 <allanj> zakim, open item 3
17:21:34 <Zakim> agendum 3. "exit criteria" taken up [from jeanne]
17:22:41 <jeanne> https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Latest_Draft_of_Exit_Criteria
17:23:34 <allanj> js: added "Each feature may be implemented by a different set of products, there is no requirement that all features be implemented by a single product. "
17:23:43 <allanj> gl: +1
17:23:48 <allanj> ja: +1
17:24:12 <jeanne> https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Latest_Draft_of_Exit_Criteria
17:24:19 <jeanne> http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-fonts/#cr-exit-criteria
17:24:38 <allanj> jr: there are a few others - def of implemented, and def of independent that are needed
17:25:22 <allanj> js: perhaps a need for interoperable
17:26:48 <allanj> ... that is worth keeping.... interoperable - passing the respective test cases
17:29:35 <allanj> === independent ===
17:30:14 <allanj> gl: what about IE and Spartan...they are the same company.
17:30:31 <allanj> jr: just use independent and don''t define it. use common sense.
17:37:21 <allanj> ja: should we say
17:37:56 <allanj> ... "at least 2 different products"
17:38:10 <allanj> gl: covered in bullet 2
17:39:29 <allanj> ja: do we want to use def of implemented and independent
17:40:59 <allanj> gl: interoperability - platform AAPI is outside the UA and necessary for all implementation. so breaks the interoperable def
17:41:29 <allanj> js: GL 4?
17:41:56 <allanj> gl: 4.1.1 covers interoperability, 4.1.x is details.
17:42:42 <allanj> ... our test suites will find a tool that check the interaction between the UA and AAPI -- msaa inspect tool
17:43:31 <allanj> gl: interoperability in section 4 doesn't need to be mentioned.
17:45:58 <allanj> jr: we have test cases or procedures. if the UAs pass the test then we have implementations
17:46:40 <allanj> js: the defs may convolute the process
17:48:09 <allanj> RESOLUTION: UAWG approves latest draft of Exit Criteria - https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Latest_Draft_of_Exit_Criteria
17:48:18 <allanj> close item 3
17:48:26 <allanj> open item 2
17:48:44 <allanj> Topic: Documenting Implementations
17:49:34 <jeanne> http://w3c.github.io/UAAG-Implementations/Implementations-by-feature
17:58:04 <allanj> jr: 1.1.1 at least 2 implementations for every item on list - https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Appendix_E:_Alternative_Content
17:58:48 <allanj> gl: all must be done by 2 browsers with various extensions or settings
18:00:56 <allanj> action: allanj to create a table (some mechanism) to track implementations for https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Appendix_E:_Alternative_Content
18:00:56 <trackbot> Error finding 'allanj'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/tracker/users>.
18:01:09 <allanj> action: jallan to create a table (some mechanism) to track implementations for https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/Appendix_E:_Alternative_Content
18:01:09 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1082 - Create a table (some mechanism) to track implementations for https://www.w3.org/wai/ua/work/wiki/appendix_e:_alternative_content [on Jim Allan - due 2015-04-16].
18:02:36 <allanj> gl: can we use user style sheets to solve these for @alt, @title, etc.
18:03:18 <allanj> js: need to add the use of user style sheets to applicability notes, or definition of UA,
18:04:01 <Greg> But we should explicitly address to what extent user style sheets, or just the user style sheet mechanism, can be used to comply with SC. And whether this works even if the UA only supports a single user style sheet, which makes it unlikely the user could find an off-the-shelf style sheet that allows the UA to comply with a wide range of SC.
18:04:05 <allanj> ... or part of plugin
18:06:28 <allanj> all discussion of fallback content
18:06:58 <jeanne> https://www.w3.org/WAI/UA/work/wiki/1.1.1
18:07:45 <Zakim> +Kim_Patch
18:07:47 <allanj> jr: if there is not a mechanism for turning off or ignoring elements then ...
18:08:58 <Kim> Kim has joined #ua
18:09:40 <allanj> <canvas id="mycanvas" width="300" height="300">
18:09:42 <allanj> Sorry, your browser cannot display this image.
18:09:43 <allanj> </canvas>
18:11:17 <Jan> http://www.w3.org/html/wg/drafts/html/master/dom.html#fallback-content
18:12:18 <allanj> js: find a better solution, table with 20+ items...this is a bad SC.
18:12:32 <allanj> .... change wording.
18:12:59 <allanj> ... with ATAG when there were lots of items to test no one passes.
18:17:25 <allanj> ja: main issue is "fallback"
18:17:43 <allanj> js: need a different SC for fallback
18:20:21 <allanj> js: can't create new SC this late. how do we eliminate 'fallback'
18:20:32 <jeanne> http://w3c.github.io/UAAG/UAAG20/#def-conditional-content
18:22:10 <allanj> jr: could add a note to eliminate fallback content
18:23:38 <Greg> Currently, our definition of Alternative Content implicitly includes fallback content (“Text that is programmatically associated with non-text content”). But we could exclude it through a Note or adding to the SC "(other than fallback content)".
18:24:27 <allanj> gl: or parenthetical (fallback content not included)
18:25:10 <allanj> jr: fallback is not necessarily text. an image could have video as fallback
18:25:45 <Jan> Action JR: New note for alternative content, excluding fallback content
18:25:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1083 - New note for alternative content, excluding fallback content [on Jan Richards - due 2015-04-16].
18:26:27 <allanj> rrsagent make minutes
18:26:32 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
18:26:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/09-ua-minutes.html allanj
18:26:40 <Zakim> -??P3
18:26:42 <Zakim> -Kim_Patch
18:26:44 <Zakim> -Greg_Lowney
18:29:55 <allanj> zakim, please part
18:29:55 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Jeanne, Jim_Allan, Greg_Lowney, Kim_Patch
18:29:55 <Zakim> Zakim has left #ua
18:31:22 <allanj> rrsagent, make minutes
18:31:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/09-ua-minutes.html allanj