19:00:57 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webperf
19:00:57 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/01-webperf-irc
19:00:59 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
19:00:59 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #webperf
19:01:01 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WPWG
19:01:01 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, trackbot
19:01:02 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Performance Working Group Teleconference
19:01:02 <trackbot> Date: 01 April 2015
19:01:13 <plh> zakim, this is per
19:01:13 <Zakim> ok, plh; that matches RWC_web-per()3:00PM
19:01:32 <Zakim> +Plh
19:01:45 <Zakim> + +657888aabb
19:02:05 <plh> zakim, aaaa is yoav
19:02:05 <Zakim> +yoav; got it
19:02:13 <plh> zakim, aabb is Ilya
19:02:13 <Zakim> +Ilya; got it
19:02:47 <plh> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-perf/2015Mar/0046.html
19:03:08 <plh> agenda+ recharter
19:03:18 <plh> agenda+ Resource Hints
19:03:29 <plh> agenda+ Performance Timeline
19:03:35 <plh> agenda+ setImmediate
19:03:41 <Zakim> + +1.310.310.aacc
19:03:42 <plh> agenda+ Preload
19:03:51 <mpb> mpb has joined #webperf
19:03:56 <plh> agenda+ Triage/discuss issues
19:04:32 <plh> zakim, aacc is mbp
19:04:32 <Zakim> +mbp; got it
19:05:10 <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
19:05:10 <Zakim> agendum 1. "recharter" taken up [from plh]
19:05:21 <plh> https://w3c.github.io/charter-webperf/
19:06:30 <plh> plh: pay attention to section 2
19:07:40 <plh> ilya: how do we say that we want to revisit some of the old specs?
19:09:03 <plh> plh: we can make a general statement in that sense
19:09:26 <plh> ilya: do you guys see anything missing?
19:09:45 <plh> yoav: things that were discussed at the velocity summit
19:09:52 <plh> ... visibility observers
19:10:05 <plh> ... not sure we have the answer yet
19:10:13 <plh> ... or something in that range
19:10:28 <plh> todd: in scope of page visibility?
19:10:44 <plh> ilya: seems beyond PV, and we have frame timing
19:13:20 <plh> ilya: other things that should be on the list? please open issues in the repo
19:14:11 <plh> plh: should strike the sentence on member only list
19:14:42 <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
19:14:42 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Resource Hints" taken up [from plh]
19:15:24 <plh> todd: we have prefetch in html5
19:15:34 <plh> ... then prerender, preload, etc.
19:15:49 <plh> ... preload was targeted to solve many of them
19:15:59 <plh> ... should we focus preload?
19:16:13 <plh> ... even on prefetch, the wording is vague
19:16:19 <plh> ... should we pull it in?
19:16:43 <plh> ilya: look into issues on preloading
19:16:56 <plh> ... don't think there are concerns to use prefetch/prerender
19:17:08 <plh> ... initial reason was inconsistency between browsers
19:17:13 <plh> ... but we could make them better
19:17:25 <plh> ... I'm ok with going back to those
19:17:41 <plh> yoav: totally behind that
19:17:57 <plh> ... future friendliness argument seems the best option
19:18:04 <plh> ... ok to go back to prefetch/prerender
19:18:16 <plh> ilya: will update resource hints
19:18:30 <plh> .... refine preconnect/prefetch/prerender
19:18:37 <plh> ... that will simplify a lot of things
19:18:56 <plh> http://microformats.org/wiki/rel-prerender
19:19:46 <plh> todd: already pulled travis with this
19:20:16 <plh> ... his take was that we should update the html spec or pull it from it
19:20:49 <plh> ilya: I prefer separate spec
19:20:56 <plh> ... but we'll need the right hooks
19:21:36 <igrigorik> https://github.com/w3c/preload/pull/15
19:21:49 <igrigorik> https://github.com/w3c/preload/pull/16
19:22:13 <plh> Ilya: preload/#15 makes as attribute mandatory
19:22:33 <plh> ... feedback from intent to implement that it opens interested side effect
19:23:01 <plh> ... this will also simplify the processing
19:23:25 <plh> Yoav: I like it because missing 'as' would be a common authoring mistake
19:23:41 <plh> ... if it resolves in a priority change, that would be difficult to detect
19:23:52 <plh> ... so ignoring the hint is absent is better imho
19:24:22 <plh> Todd: by forcing the user to make the choice, we avoid the authoring issue. right?
19:24:24 <plh> Ilya: correct
19:25:01 <plh> ilya: if somebody specified an invalid context, we shouldn't initiate the request
19:25:08 <plh> ... friendly warning and ignore
19:25:22 <plh> ... like an invalid link tag
19:25:49 <plh> yoav: separate issue: are we doing sync or async fetch request?
19:26:19 <plh> .... if we're building the link dynamically, we don't want to create a situation when the img gets invalidated because of order
19:26:49 <plh> ilya: preload/#16 is supposed to address that
19:28:23 <plh> yoav: what happens if as is changed dynamically?
19:28:31 <plh> ... do we re-apply CSP
19:28:39 <plh> ilya: doesn't affect CSP
19:28:55 <plh> ... but it may reprioritize the resource
19:29:30 <plh> ilya: I'll update the language for #15
19:29:34 <plh> .... then merge
19:30:10 <plh> todd: setting the link and the as might cause issue?
19:30:21 <plh> yoav: let's merge and figure out corner cases
19:30:31 <plh> ilya: I'll merge #16
19:31:12 <plh> yoav: I have an issue related to media attribute and viewport setting
19:31:49 <plh> ... concern is that allowing resources to be preloaded based on media attribute, in some cases, we don't know the actuall viewport dimension when we're fetching the resources
19:32:10 <plh> ilya: can we set the viewport via header?
19:32:21 <plh> yoav: not as a meta
19:32:39 <plh> ... I don't think we should do this
19:32:48 <plh> ... viewport should be saner
19:33:10 <plh> ... discussion on blink-dev didn't go very far
19:33:35 <plh> ... @viewport is over engineered
19:33:51 <plh> ... it's possible for authors to shoot themselves in the foot
19:33:57 <plh> ilya: please open a bug
19:35:09 <plh> yoav: will do
19:35:14 <plh> ... as well as sync question
19:35:28 <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
19:35:28 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Performance Timeline" taken up [from plh]
19:35:42 <plh> todd: performance observers to performance timeline
19:38:25 <plh> https://github.com/w3c/performance-timeline/pull/8
19:38:37 <plh> Ilya: I need to update the PR
19:38:55 <plh> ... current performance observers provide a callback
19:39:52 <plh> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-perf/2015Feb/0045.html
19:40:20 <plh> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-perf/2015Feb/0030.html
19:40:50 <plh> [...]
19:42:30 <igrigorik> https://github.com/w3c/navigation-timing/pull/10
19:42:51 <ToddReifsteck> https://github.com/w3c/navigation-timing/pull/10/files
19:43:31 <ToddReifsteck> https://github.com/w3c/resource-timing/pull/18
19:44:53 <igrigorik> new version: https://cdn.rawgit.com/w3c/navigation-timing/move-perf-interface-definition/index.html
19:45:06 <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
19:45:06 <Zakim> agendum 4. "setImmediate" taken up [from plh]
19:45:23 <plh> todd: number of usages are increasing
19:45:29 <plh> ... 1.7% usage
19:45:54 <igrigorik> plh: see above for readable version of https://github.com/w3c/navigation-timing/blob/move-perf-interface-definition/index.html
19:45:58 <plh> ... it's existence stats
19:47:27 <plh> plh: any browser counter stats?
19:47:35 <plh> todd: could pull that in a month
19:48:57 <plh> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-perf/2013Aug/0051.html
19:50:22 <plh> plh: would be helpful to go back to those threads before recycling again
19:50:41 <plh> yoav: blink-dev resistance based on implementations and fear of abuse
19:51:15 <plh> ... would be useful to summarize
19:51:32 <plh> todd: would be valuable to have a few customers that have use cases
19:51:40 <plh> ... where there is gain
19:52:56 <plh> ACTION: Todd to come back with data related to setImmediate
19:52:57 <trackbot> Created ACTION-155 - Come back with data related to setimmediate [on Todd Reifsteck - due 2015-04-08].
19:53:03 <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
19:53:03 <Zakim> agendum 5. "Preload" taken up [from plh]
19:53:12 <plh> zaki, close agendum 5
19:53:22 <plh> zakim, close agendum 5
19:53:22 <Zakim> agendum 5, Preload, closed
19:53:23 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
19:53:23 <Zakim> 6. Triage/discuss issues [from plh]
19:53:24 <plh> zakim, move to next agendum
19:53:25 <Zakim> agendum 6. "Triage/discuss issues" taken up [from plh]
19:54:45 <plh> https://github.com/w3c/performance-timeline/pull/9
19:55:12 <plh> ilya: would it make to define a more general concept: getEntriesThatHaveThisAttributeOrProperty
19:55:28 <plh> ... so that we can annotate our entries in the futre
19:55:35 <plh> todd: makes a lot of sense
19:55:44 <plh> ... will have to talk to developers on implementations
19:56:32 <plh> plh: how far to go in phrasing the question?
19:57:45 <plh> ilya: I'll write some use cases for it
19:58:16 <plh> ... it does open a lot of possibilities
19:58:22 <plh> ... to push more records
19:59:14 <Zakim> -mbp
19:59:52 <plh> https://github.com/w3c/webperf-dashboard
19:59:58 <plh> http://w3c.github.io/webperf-dashboard/
20:02:21 <Zakim> -[Microsoft]
20:02:23 <Zakim> -yoav
20:02:25 <Zakim> -Plh
20:02:27 <Zakim> -Ilya
20:02:29 <Zakim> RWC_web-per()3:00PM has ended
20:02:29 <Zakim> Attendees were [Microsoft], +33.1.56.69.aaaa, Plh, +657888aabb, yoav, Ilya, +1.310.310.aacc, mbp
20:02:46 <plh> rrsagent, generate minutes
20:02:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/04/01-webperf-minutes.html plh