IRC log of css on 2015-04-01
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 15:07:25 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #css
- 15:07:25 [RRSAgent]
- logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/04/01-css-irc
- 15:07:31 [glazou]
- Zakim, this will be STyle
- 15:07:31 [Zakim]
- ok, glazou; I see Style_CSS FP()12:00PM scheduled to start in 53 minutes
- 15:07:37 [glazou]
- RRSAgent, make logs public
- 15:08:27 [Florian]
- Florian has joined #css
- 15:31:45 [myles]
- myles has joined #css
- 15:34:42 [glazou]
- welcome myles
- 15:34:51 [myles]
- thanks glazou!
- 15:35:04 [glazou]
- and sorry again for the late announcement
- 15:36:01 [myles]
- no problem :)
- 15:51:54 [antenna]
- antenna has joined #css
- 15:56:35 [zcorpan]
- zcorpan has joined #css
- 15:57:41 [Florian]
- liam: You have a valid point. But I think we should not just strive for theoretical consistency, and need to consider use cases first.
- 15:58:06 [Zakim]
- Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has now started
- 15:58:07 [Florian]
- liam: but if you have some, please send to www-style. I can look it up after the call.
- 15:58:13 [Zakim]
- +dauwhe
- 15:58:20 [Zakim]
- +??P14
- 15:58:25 [Zakim]
- +??P17
- 15:58:28 [zcorpan]
- Zakim, ??P14 is me
- 15:58:28 [Zakim]
- +zcorpan; got it
- 15:58:29 [glazou]
- Zakim, ??P17 isme
- 15:58:29 [Zakim]
- I don't understand '??P17 isme', glazou
- 15:58:34 [zcorpan]
- Zakim, mute me
- 15:58:34 [Zakim]
- zcorpan should now be muted
- 15:58:35 [glazou]
- Zakim, ??P17 is me
- 15:58:37 [Zakim]
- +glazou; got it
- 15:58:49 [glazou]
- plinss: dael sent regrets, we’ll need a scribe
- 15:58:52 [Zakim]
- + +1.206.675.aaaa
- 15:58:53 [tantek]
- tantek has joined #css
- 15:59:02 [astearns]
- zakim, aaaa is me
- 15:59:02 [Zakim]
- +astearns; got it
- 15:59:03 [Zakim]
- + +1.479.764.aabb
- 15:59:04 [Zakim]
- +plinss
- 15:59:30 [Florian]
- Zakim, I am probably aabb
- 15:59:30 [Zakim]
- I don't understand 'I am probably aabb', Florian
- 15:59:39 [Florian]
- Zakim, I am aabb
- 15:59:39 [Zakim]
- +Florian; got it
- 15:59:49 [bcampbell]
- bcampbell has joined #css
- 16:00:18 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller]
- 16:00:19 [gregwhitworth]
- gregwhitworth has joined #css
- 16:00:38 [bcampbell]
- Zakim [IPcaller] is me
- 16:00:47 [zcorpan]
- Zakim, unmute me
- 16:00:48 [Zakim]
- zcorpan should no longer be muted
- 16:00:50 [Zakim]
- + +1.631.398.aacc
- 16:00:55 [Zakim]
- +[Apple]
- 16:01:02 [zcorpan]
- Zakim, mute me
- 16:01:02 [Zakim]
- zcorpan should now be muted
- 16:01:30 [Zakim]
- +[Microsoft]
- 16:01:36 [arybka]
- arybka has joined #css
- 16:01:40 [gregwhitworth]
- Zakim, Microsoft is me
- 16:01:41 [Zakim]
- +gregwhitworth; got it
- 16:01:55 [Zakim]
- +??P38
- 16:01:57 [SimonSapin]
- Zakim, ??P38 is me
- 16:01:57 [Zakim]
- +SimonSapin; got it
- 16:02:04 [alex_antennahouse]
- alex_antennahouse has joined #css
- 16:02:24 [Zakim]
- +[Bloomberg]
- 16:02:38 [Zakim]
- + +43.134.001.00aadd
- 16:02:54 [Zakim]
- +[IPcaller.a]
- 16:02:58 [sanja]
- Zakim, aadd is me.
- 16:02:58 [Zakim]
- +sanja; got it
- 16:02:59 [alex_antennahouse]
- im ipcaller a
- 16:04:06 [Zakim]
- -SimonSapin
- 16:04:23 [Zakim]
- +dbaron
- 16:04:38 [Zakim]
- +??P20
- 16:05:09 [estellevw]
- estellevw has joined #css
- 16:05:36 [Zakim]
- +BradK
- 16:05:45 [SimonSapin]
- Zakim, ??P20 is me
- 16:05:45 [Zakim]
- +SimonSapin; got it
- 16:05:52 [SimonSapin]
- I think
- 16:06:15 [Zakim]
- +??P53
- 16:06:25 [tantek]
- zakim, ??p53 is me
- 16:06:25 [Zakim]
- +tantek; got it
- 16:06:36 [tantek]
- zakim, mute me
- 16:06:36 [Zakim]
- tantek should now be muted
- 16:06:53 [arronei]
- arronei has joined #css
- 16:07:13 [Zakim]
- +Bert
- 16:07:23 [glazou]
- florian: css-egg?
- 16:07:28 [glazou]
- ScribeNick: glazou
- 16:07:44 [Zakim]
- +fantasai
- 16:07:46 [glazou]
- plinss: first topic, TPAC? pick dates
- 16:07:53 [glazou]
- plinss: first part of week ok ?
- 16:07:56 [SimonSapin]
- tantek, http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-egg/
- 16:07:58 [tantek]
- zakim, unmute me
- 16:07:58 [Zakim]
- tantek should no longer be muted
- 16:08:38 [glazou]
- tantek: I’ll be chairing a WG myself and will try to avoid overlap
- 16:08:44 [Bert]
- (I'll be there the whole week anyway, so no pref.)
- 16:08:54 [BradK]
- BradK has joined #CSS
- 16:09:05 [glazou]
- glazou: let’s stick to mon-wed
- 16:09:09 [glazou]
- Florian: agreed
- 16:09:19 [glazou]
- tantek: sunday too ?
- 16:09:23 [glazou]
- plinss: not for now
- 16:09:28 [glazou]
- plinss: we’ll see
- 16:09:39 [glazou]
- plinss: involves W3C planning and spaces
- 16:09:45 [BradK]
- Zakim, who is here?
- 16:09:45 [Zakim]
- On the phone I see dauwhe, zcorpan (muted), glazou, astearns, Florian, plinss, [IPcaller], +1.631.398.aacc, [Apple], gregwhitworth, [Bloomberg], sanja, [IPcaller.a], dbaron,
- 16:09:45 [glazou]
- plinss: next topic, box sizing
- 16:09:49 [Zakim]
- ... SimonSapin, BradK, tantek, Bert, fantasai
- 16:09:49 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see BradK, arronei, alex_antennahouse, arybka, gregwhitworth, bcampbell, tantek, zcorpan, antenna, myles, Florian, RRSAgent, Zakim, dauwhe, sanja, dbaron, svillar, hgl,
- 16:09:49 [Zakim]
- ... Ms2ger, lajava, Bert, dwim, liam, plh, rego, fantasai, sylvaing, projector, rbyers, lmclister______, stryx`, Hixie, shans, SimonSapin, decadance, paul___irish, achicu_____,
- 16:09:50 [Zakim]
- ... gsnedders, plinss, logbot, ed, panzana`, Rossen, leaverou, CSSWG_LogBot, ato, koji, ElijahLynn, iank, slightlyoff, sgalineau, amtiskaw, dstockwell, astearns, mvujovic______,
- 16:09:50 [Zakim]
- ... shane
- 16:09:51 [glazou]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Feb/0445.html
- 16:09:55 [tantek]
- latest message on: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Mar/0405.html
- 16:09:58 [glazou]
- florian: no feedback
- 16:10:09 [glazou]
- tantek: thread with fantasai and tab
- 16:10:13 [Zakim]
- +??P58
- 16:10:14 [glazou]
- Florian: right but nothing else
- 16:10:28 [glazou]
- tantek: would like to move forward with this ASAP
- 16:10:38 [dj2]
- dj2 has joined #css
- 16:10:40 [glazou]
- tantek: still some issues where you agree with tab but…
- 16:10:40 [vollick]
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- 16:10:49 [glazou]
- Florian: a couple wording points I agree with Elika
- 16:11:01 [glazou]
- Florian: one diff between browsers I did not see when I spec’d that
- 16:11:09 [zcorpan]
- Zakim, who is noisy?
- 16:11:11 [glazou]
- tantek: the IE difference ?
- 16:11:13 [glazou]
- Florian: yes
- 16:11:21 [Zakim]
- zcorpan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: glazou (14%), Florian (100%), plinss (15%), tantek (10%)
- 16:11:39 [glazou]
- Florian: IE returns the content width whil others return the width
- 16:12:13 [glazou]
- Florian: I think I agree with not-IE here
- 16:12:29 [glazou]
- gregwhitworth: we just got some edits on that this week
- 16:12:35 [tantek]
- this example:
- 16:12:36 [tantek]
- <div id="d" style="box-sizing:border-box; position:absolute; padding: 10px;"></div>
- 16:12:37 [tantek]
- <script>console.log(getComputedStyle(document.getElementById("d")).width);</script>
- 16:12:41 [tantek]
- Firefox/Chrome/Safari/Presto --> 20px
- 16:12:42 [glazou]
- Florian: ok, I will update the text then
- 16:12:46 [tantek]
- IE --> 0px
- 16:13:00 [glazou]
- Florian: my prose is probably correct although not elegants
- 16:13:02 [gregwhitworth]
- yeah, we don't want that since custom layouts will need interop
- 16:13:08 [glazou]
- tantek: I can help with that
- 16:13:10 [shepazu]
- shepazu has joined #css
- 16:13:49 [glazou]
- Florian: 2.1 is ambiguous here
- 16:14:15 [glazou]
- Florian: elika suggested dealing with input and output
- 16:14:20 [glazou]
- Florian: please help if you can
- 16:14:24 [glazou]
- tantek: ok
- 16:14:32 [glazou]
- Florian: I need reviews from implementors
- 16:14:38 [glazou]
- tantek: we already gave 3 weeks
- 16:14:44 [glazou]
- tantek: we heard from tab and elika
- 16:14:57 [glazou]
- tantek: nothing from others, including msft excluded what greg just said
- 16:15:06 [glazou]
- tantek: greg, did you review the rest of proposed text?
- 16:15:09 [glazou]
- gregwhitworth: unfortunately no
- 16:15:43 [glazou]
- Florian: my proposal was posted end of feb, ahem
- 16:16:00 [glazou]
- tantek: I’d like to suggest you go ahead, make the changes
- 16:16:09 [glazou]
- tantek: make the change explicit in the text
- 16:16:20 [glazou]
- tantek: and ship
- 16:16:43 [glazou]
- Florian: eliak mentions not being happy about monkey-patching 2.1
- 16:16:51 [glazou]
- s/eliak/elika
- 16:17:00 [fantasai]
- s/elika/fantasai/g
- 16:17:48 [glazou]
- tantek: unforrtunately, we take the least worst approach at this time
- 16:18:25 [glazou]
- tantek: fantasai just said she’s ok with moving fwd the proposal
- 16:18:32 [glazou]
- Florian: let’d do it then
- 16:18:37 [glazou]
- s/let’d/let's
- 16:18:43 [glazou]
- tantek: sounds like a plan
- 16:18:59 [glazou]
- Bert: what exactly needs to change in 2.1
- 16:19:34 [glazou]
- Florian: the sizing section in 2.1 refers ambiguously to the value of the width propertty and the width of the content box because it was the same thing in 2.1
- 16:19:48 [glazou]
- Florian: so no clear how 2.1 works
- 16:20:02 [glazou]
- Florian: I made a clarification about that
- 16:20:15 [glazou]
- Bert: yeah ok thanks
- 16:20:21 [glazou]
- Bert: makes sense
- 16:20:32 [glazou]
- Florian: same thing for height and min-/max- properties
- 16:20:49 [glazou]
- tantek: agreed that if can errata 2.1…
- 16:21:04 [glazou]
- tantek: but probablt better to get a wider review in CSS 3 UI
- 16:21:45 [glazou]
- tantek: taking a wild guess TabAtkins would be ok
- 16:21:50 [glazou]
- tantek: other objections ?
- 16:22:15 [glazou]
- Florian: no objection obviously but I got rare feedback so does it mean nobody reviewed it ?
- 16:22:23 [glazou]
- plinss: wait
- 16:22:35 [glazou]
- plinss: update and ask for WD ?
- 16:22:55 [glazou]
- plinss: hearing no objection
- 16:23:10 [fantasai]
- +1
- 16:23:14 [glazou]
- tantek: publish early publish often
- 16:23:17 [glazou]
- plinss: obj?
- 16:23:31 [glazou]
- RESOLVED: new WD of CSS 3 UI, accepting changes to box-sizing
- 16:23:42 [glazou]
- RESOLVED: then another WD
- 16:24:15 [glazou]
- tantek: the new publishing system was still creashing so we still use the older one
- 16:24:25 [glazou]
- next topic, Motion Path
- 16:24:37 [glazou]
- glazou: shane sent regrets
- 16:24:41 [astearns]
- +1 to fpwd
- 16:24:42 [glazou]
- plinss: objections to FPWD ?
- 16:24:56 [tantek]
- Bert, http://dev.w3.org/csswg/css-ui-3/ is good to go for WD publication now.
- 16:25:02 [glazou]
- RESOLVED: Motion Path FPWD granted
- 16:25:14 [glazou]
- next topic, WebVTT feedback
- 16:25:21 [glazou]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-css-wg/2015JanMar/0239.html
- 16:25:35 [glazou]
- plinss: anyone having feedback
- 16:25:40 [glazou]
- plinss: ?
- 16:25:53 [glazou]
- astearns: we need to collect what’s in the list and send it ASAP
- 16:25:56 [glazou]
- plinss: fine by me
- 16:26:03 [glazou]
- plinss: anyone nedding more time
- 16:26:10 [glazou]
- Bert: can you do it?
- 16:26:37 [glazou]
- RESOLVED accept feedback coming from mailing-list as WG review
- 16:27:11 [glazou]
- ACTION Bert to collect and send WebVTT feddback
- 16:27:11 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-677 - Collect and send webvtt feddback [on Bert Bos - due 2015-04-08].
- 16:27:17 [glazou]
- next topic, MQ
- 16:27:34 [glazou]
- Florian: followup of the should/must discussion
- 16:27:40 [glazou]
- Florian: MSFT,w e were waiting for you
- 16:27:52 [glazou]
- gregwhitworth: initial worries about pointer events… and we could not review
- 16:28:13 [glazou]
- Florian: we cand efinitely improve the prose there
- 16:28:39 [Zakim]
- -zcorpan
- 16:29:09 [Zakim]
- +??P7
- 16:29:15 [zcorpan]
- Zakim, ??P7 is me
- 16:29:15 [Zakim]
- +zcorpan; got it
- 16:29:17 [zcorpan]
- Zakim, mute me
- 16:29:17 [Zakim]
- zcorpan should now be muted
- 16:29:27 [glazou]
- gregwhitworth: I don’t have a strong knowledge of that
- 16:30:00 [glazou]
- Florian: with the statement I’m willing to work on your pointers’ concern, we should be ok with the general feeling
- 16:30:09 [glazou]
- plinss: ok with that gregwhitworth or need another week?
- 16:30:33 [glazou]
- gregwhitworth: I’d prefer having time to get internal review but I don’t disagree necessarily with you Florian but
- 16:30:40 [glazou]
- plinss: ok let’s give them another week
- 16:30:52 [glazou]
- DEFERRED to next week: MQ4
- 16:31:07 [glazou]
- next topic, cursor image formats
- 16:31:22 [glazou]
- Florian: we were waiting for 2 different answers from MSft
- 16:31:48 [glazou]
- Florian: are you ok with mandating image types, PNG and SVG, must be supported and everything supported as an image must also be as a cursor ?
- 16:32:06 [glazou]
- plinss: rossen sent regrets and mentioned discussions and asked for another week
- 16:32:25 [glazou]
- gregwhitworth: I got in touch with the standards people
- 16:32:30 [glazou]
- gregwhitworth: ball rolling now
- 16:32:55 [glazou]
- gregwhitworth: asked yesterday and they said stuff is in MSDN and they’re investigating legal issues
- 16:33:07 [glazou]
- gregwhitworth: rossen was investigating tech issues and he found nothing at this point
- 16:33:22 [glazou]
- tantek: that’s good
- 16:33:49 [glazou]
- tantek: one concrete proposal request: would it be possible to contribute the cursor formats as a member contribution?
- 16:34:01 [glazou]
- gregwhitworth: well ok
- 16:34:07 [glazou]
- tantek: MSFT has done it before
- 16:34:30 [Florian]
- +1 to what Tantek said.
- 16:34:41 [glazou]
- glazou: I said it too in www-style
- 16:35:35 [glazou]
- gregwhitworth: will send the suggestion
- 16:35:56 [glazou]
- gregwhitworth: let’s put that on agenda every week
- 16:35:59 [glazou]
- all: :-)
- 16:36:17 [glazou]
- tantek: count on us :-)
- 16:36:24 [glazou]
- next topic, ::marker
- 16:36:35 [glazou]
- plinss: fantasai yt ?
- 16:36:53 [Florian]
- quite a bit of echo
- 16:37:03 [zcorpan]
- Zakim, who is noisy?
- 16:37:13 [Zakim]
- zcorpan, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: plinss (29%), tantek (53%), fantasai (31%)
- 16:37:21 [tantek]
- "If you found this page, you might be wondering… "(WHAT WAS THAT)
- 16:37:34 [glazou]
- fantasai: xidorn’s message is about font variants
- 16:37:46 [glazou]
- fantasai: we want to add that as a requirement on UAs
- 16:37:51 [fantasai]
- ::marker { font-variant: tabular-nums; }
- 16:37:58 [glazou]
- fantasai: ::marker {font-variant-numeric: tabular-nums;}
- 16:38:13 [glazou]
- fantasai: add it to default stylesheet for better results
- 16:38:15 [glazou]
- Florian: ok
- 16:38:26 [glazou]
- Bert: you can still override it
- 16:38:28 [glazou]
- fantasai: yes
- 16:38:31 [glazou]
- Bert: ok fine
- 16:38:50 [glazou]
- RESOLVED add the ::marker rule above to the default stylesheet
- 16:39:04 [glazou]
- next topic, intrinsic sizes and multicol elements
- 16:39:05 [fantasai]
- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/www-style/2015Mar/0333.html
- 16:39:21 [glazou]
- fantasai: rossen reported an error in one of the bullets
- 16:40:27 [sanja]
- fantasai: so basically we're looking at the intrinsic sizes of multicolumn element
- 16:41:29 [glazou]
- ScribeNick: sanja
- 16:41:45 [sanja]
- column-count, column-widht, try to set as many columns as you can, it will try to give you ... (talking about cases) ... column-widht, specify height on the element, the columns will fill down and it will overflow on the next side
- 16:42:24 [sanja]
- fantasai: ... so the minimum is the number of columns multiplied by the minimum or maximum size of the content
- 16:43:30 [Florian]
- q+
- 16:44:12 [sanja]
- fantasai: take the min content but max out at the width of the column (is all I got that makes sense without tons of ...)
- 16:44:32 [fantasai]
- ScribeNick: fantasai
- 16:44:44 [fantasai]
- fantasai: col-width + col-count case
- 16:44:58 [dbaron]
- I strongly disagree with the height case.
- 16:45:31 [fantasai]
- fantasai: The last case is controversial
- 16:45:36 [fantasai]
- fantasai: Don't think we can get resolution on it
- 16:45:59 [dbaron]
- It would take me half an hour to load this stuff into my head again; I don't know if this is the same as what the proposal was the last time fantasai and I discussed it.
- 16:46:23 [fantasai]
- florian: I think Morten's position is probably right, since he's usually right
- 16:46:35 [fantasai]
- fantasai: He didn't have anything much to say except for the last case.
- 16:46:46 [Florian]
- (in general, and specifically about multicol)
- 16:47:07 [fantasai]
- fantasai: I would like to get a resolution on the first three. happy to discuss on ML, but would like to know whose reviews to wait for
- 16:47:23 [zcorpan]
- i can ask morten for opinions about those
- 16:47:26 [astearns]
- agree with getting Morten's opinion
- 16:48:12 [fantasai]
- plinss: Anyone?
- 16:48:14 [fantasai]
- [silence]
- 16:48:36 [fantasai]
- Bert: not sure I understand anything, but I suspect height shouldn't have an influence here
- 16:48:48 [fantasai]
- fantasai: last case is what happens if you have col-width + height
- 16:49:02 [fantasai]
- fantasai: some impl use intrinsic size as col-width
- 16:49:08 [fantasai]
- fantasai: resulting one column
- 16:49:16 [fantasai]
- fantasai: for the width of the multicol element
- 16:49:20 [fantasai]
- fantasai: when you fill it with the content
- 16:49:25 [fantasai]
- fantasai: more columns are generated
- 16:49:36 [fantasai]
- fantasai: and the content overflows to the side
- 16:50:02 [fantasai]
- fantasai: the goal of the proposal was to ahve the intrinsic width be large enough to fit all of the content
- 16:50:09 [fantasai]
- fantasai: because that's what an intrinsic width usually does, that is its goal
- 16:50:18 [fantasai]
- fantasai: the problem with this is it requires layout
- 16:50:45 [fantasai]
- fantasai: except for multicol and orthogonal flows, we don't require layout for finding intrinsic inline-size
- 16:50:54 [fantasai]
- fantasai: that would avoid overflow
- 16:51:07 [fantasai]
- fantasai: so layout engines are unhappy that they would have to do layout
- 16:51:41 [fantasai]
- Bert: Don't think I can have an opinion in 5 min
- 16:51:48 [fantasai]
- Bert: But looks pretty straightforward
- 16:52:19 [fantasai]
- plinss: Maybe get a resolution on first 3
- 16:52:31 [fantasai]
- fantasai: Chrome is the only one that would need to change, since IE and Firefox agree on those
- 16:52:46 [fantasai]
- plinss: No one from Chrome, come back next week
- 16:53:44 [fantasai]
- [discussion of what to discuss]
- 16:53:44 [glazou]
- ScribeNick: glazou
- 16:53:48 [johanneswilm]
- johanneswilm has joined #css
- 16:53:50 [glazou]
- next topic, selectors 4
- 16:53:54 [glazou]
- dbaron: needs tab
- 16:53:58 [fantasai]
- Topic: Baselines of inline blocks
- 16:54:03 [dbaron]
- (if it needs teleconference time at all)
- 16:54:05 [glazou]
- next topic, Baselines of inline blocks
- 16:54:05 [Florian]
- welcome
- 16:54:06 [fantasai]
- Miles, from Apple
- 16:54:09 [tantek]
- Welcome Miles!
- 16:54:10 [glazou]
- ScribeNick: fantasai
- 16:54:18 [glazou]
- s/Miles/Myles
- 16:54:18 [fantasai]
- miles: Proposal is regarding inline block elements
- 16:54:35 [fantasai]
- miles: Spec says if you have overflow: hidden;, you use the bottom of the block
- 16:54:48 [fantasai]
- miles: Would prefer the baseline of the last line or bottom of block, whichever is higher
- 16:55:05 [fantasai]
- miles: If you have without overflow: hidden, then use baseline of text
- 16:55:10 [glazou]
- s/miles/myles/g
- 16:55:13 [fantasai]
- miles: if you add overflow: hidden, the baseline jumps up
- 16:55:18 [astearns]
- I like this change. fewer surprises
- 16:55:23 [fantasai]
- myles: Putting overflow: hidden shouldnt' cause it to jump around like this
- 16:55:38 [dbaron]
- I'm fine with this change as long as it's based on the initial scroll position, and that overflow auto/hidden/scroll are consistent.
- 16:55:42 [fantasai]
- myles: So would like to change baseline of the inline-block to be whichever is higher, last baseline or bottom of block
- 16:55:55 [fantasai]
- Florian: I'm fine with the proposal, but is it Web-compatible?
- 16:56:04 [fantasai]
- myles: Currently all browsers except WebKit implement the spec
- 16:56:12 [fantasai]
- myles: WebKit has shipped this behavior for many releases?
- 16:56:34 [fantasai]
- dbaron: I'm fine with this. We get bugs about this at a decent frequency, so I think the current behavior does bug people
- 16:56:48 [fantasai]
- dbaron: I'm fine as long as we define it as initial scroll position
- 16:56:56 [fantasai]
- dbaron: And also if all of overflow: hidden / scroll are affected
- 16:57:00 [tantek]
- sounds like an improvement to me too. assuming web-compat.
- 16:57:29 [fantasai]
- fantasai: By "bottom of box" do you mean the content-box, border-box, padding-box, margin-box?
- 16:57:50 [fantasai]
- Florian: The content-box?
- 16:57:57 [fantasai]
- fantasai: scrollable area is the padding-box
- 16:58:02 [fantasai]
- myles: spec right now says bottom margin edge
- 16:58:11 [fantasai]
- myles: That part I'm not proposing changin
- 16:58:29 [fantasai]
- fantasai: That's kindof weird then, because you might have a baseline that you can't see that it's aligning to
- 16:58:47 [fantasai]
- dbaron: I think the margin edge is used to make it behave like a replaced element, since those baseline-align to their bottom margin edge as well
- 16:58:47 [Zakim]
- -??P58
- 16:59:05 [fantasai]
- myles: Boris and Tab have said this is a reasonable thing to do
- 16:59:29 [Zakim]
- -zcorpan
- 16:59:42 [fantasai]
- Florian: Since alinging to baseline, maybe should be base don whether baseline is visible
- 17:01:19 [fantasai]
- fantasai: Wouldn't that cause a jump? If I increase the font size by 3px and [...]
- 17:01:36 [fantasai]
- Florian: No, I meant take lower of baseline or padding-box.
- 17:01:45 [dbaron]
- fantasai: We should take Myles's proposal, and then maybe try to change margin-box to padding-box later depending on Web compat.
- 17:01:48 [fantasai]
- fantasai: Okay. I think that definitely makes more sense, if the idea is to align to the content.
- 17:01:57 [fantasai]
- fantasai: But [see dbaron's script]
- 17:02:15 [fantasai]
- plinss: Do we have a resolution?
- 17:02:18 [fantasai]
- [...]
- 17:02:27 [Florian]
- s/lower of/higher of/
- 17:02:34 [Zakim]
- -dbaron
- 17:02:36 [Zakim]
- -astearns
- 17:02:37 [Zakim]
- -gregwhitworth
- 17:02:38 [Zakim]
- -glazou
- 17:02:39 [Zakim]
- -BradK
- 17:02:39 [Zakim]
- -dauwhe
- 17:02:39 [Zakim]
- -[IPcaller]
- 17:02:40 [Zakim]
- -tantek
- 17:02:40 [Zakim]
- -[Apple]
- 17:02:43 [Zakim]
- -sanja
- 17:02:49 [Zakim]
- -Bert
- 17:03:02 [Zakim]
- -SimonSapin
- 17:03:21 [fantasai]
- RESOLVED: Accept Myle's proposal to make baseline of overflow non-visible inline blocks the higher of the actual baseline (at initial scroll position) and the margin-box bottom. Separately investigate whether to switch from margin-box bottom to padding-box bottom for sanity. (requries web-compat check)
- 17:03:37 [Zakim]
- - +1.631.398.aacc
- 17:03:42 [Zakim]
- -fantasai
- 17:03:47 [Zakim]
- -plinss
- 17:03:49 [Zakim]
- -Florian
- 17:03:51 [fantasai]
- myles: was that all clear for you?
- 17:04:09 [fantasai]
- ACTION: TabAtkins and fantasai to update Box Alignment spec per resolution, propose wording for CSS2.1 errata
- 17:04:10 [trackbot]
- Created ACTION-678 - And fantasai to update box alignment spec per resolution, propose wording for css2.1 errata [on Tab Atkins Jr. - due 2015-04-08].
- 17:05:15 [Zakim]
- -[IPcaller.a]
- 17:05:50 [myles]
- fantasai: yes
- 17:06:48 [Zakim]
- -[Bloomberg]
- 17:06:49 [Zakim]
- Style_CSS FP()12:00PM has ended
- 17:06:49 [Zakim]
- Attendees were dauwhe, zcorpan, glazou, +1.206.675.aaaa, astearns, +1.479.764.aabb, plinss, Florian, [IPcaller], +1.631.398.aacc, [Apple], gregwhitworth, SimonSapin, [Bloomberg],
- 17:06:49 [Zakim]
- ... +43.134.001.00aadd, sanja, dbaron, BradK, tantek, Bert, fantasai
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- 19:49:16 [Florian]
- dbaron: MDN claims "-moz-user-modify: read-only | read-write | write-only" exists (https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/-moz-user-modify)
- 19:49:45 [Florian]
- using the inspector confirms that this property and these values are recognized.
- 19:49:53 [Florian]
- But they don't seem to do anything.
- 19:51:14 [Florian]
- The webkit equivalent on the other hand does work, and "-webkit-user-modify: read-write" appears to do the same thing as putting contenteditable on an element
- 19:51:31 [Florian]
- Am I misunderstanding how the -moz- version is supposed to work, or does it not work?
- 19:58:52 [dbaron]
- Florian, the only thing it does is that read-only apparently suppresses something about the caret
- 19:59:25 [dbaron]
- Florian, https://mxr.mozilla.org/mozilla-central/source/layout/base/nsCaret.cpp#496
- 20:01:11 [Florian]
- dbaron: Do you think it used to do more, and this is just a leftover of a removal, or that it never got implemented beyond this? I tried looking around in bugzilla, and couldn't find evidence either way.
- 20:01:18 [dbaron]
- Florian, not sure
- 20:01:33 [dbaron]
- Florian, in the early days people mass-added parsing/computation of properties before implementing any support for them
- 20:02:50 [Florian]
- dbaron: It could be one of these, then.
- 20:04:38 [Florian]
- dbaron: Thanks. I should learn my way around the gecko source, that'd be better than bothering you.
- 20:05:07 [dbaron]
- Florian, not worth it for questions like that, but there might be other reasons to do so
- 20:07:03 [Florian]
- dbaron: intellectual curiosity is probably a sufficient reason (to be balanced against available time), but maybe I could write some patches sometimes too, although that takes time too...
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