14:58:42 RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag 14:58:42 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/31-wai-wcag-irc 14:58:44 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:58:44 Zakim has joined #wai-wcag 14:58:46 Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG 14:58:46 ok, trackbot, I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM already started 14:58:47 Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 14:58:47 Date: 31 March 2015 14:58:50 Zakim, who is on the phone? 14:58:51 On the phone I see +1.617.766.aaaa, [IPcaller] 14:58:58 Zakim, aaaa is AWK 14:58:58 +AWK; got it 14:59:19 Zakim, IPCaller is Joshue 14:59:20 +Joshue; got it 14:59:45 zakim, agenda? 14:59:45 I see nothing on the agenda 14:59:56 agenda+ TPAC https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/24thMarch2015/results#x2673 15:00:11 agenda+ Charter update - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/2015WCAGSurvey/ 15:00:44 -Joshue 15:00:45 agenda+ New issue https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/86 15:00:51 agenda+ Page structure tutorial https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/PageStructureTutorial1/ 15:00:53 marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag 15:01:01 Kathy has joined #wai-wcag 15:01:22 +Marc_Johlic 15:01:40 +Kathy_Wahlbin 15:01:59 +David_MacDonald 15:03:07 Loretta has joined #wai-wcag 15:03:55 +[IPcaller] 15:04:05 zakim, IPcaller is Loretta 15:04:05 +Loretta; got it 15:04:08 David has joined #wai-wcag 15:04:12 zakim, call EricE-Skype 15:04:12 ok, yatil; the call is being made 15:04:13 +Katie_Haritos-Shea 15:04:13 +EricE 15:04:46 zakim, nick yatil is EricE 15:04:46 ok, yatil, I now associate you with EricE 15:04:48 zakim, mute me 15:04:48 EricE should now be muted 15:05:46 +Kenny 15:06:56 hi 15:07:05 Zakim, who is on the phone? 15:07:05 On the phone I see AWK, Marc_Johlic, Kathy_Wahlbin, David_MacDonald, Loretta, Katie_Haritos-Shea, EricE (muted), Kenny (muted) 15:07:29 marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag 15:07:50 +??P27 15:09:18 +[IPcaller] 15:09:19 zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue 15:09:19 +Joshue; got it 15:09:21 https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List 15:10:12 zakim, who is on the phone? 15:10:12 On the phone I see AWK, Marc_Johlic, Kathy_Wahlbin, David_MacDonald, Loretta, Katie_Haritos-Shea, EricE (muted), Kenny (muted), Michael_Cooper, Joshue 15:10:53 Zakim, take up item 1 15:10:53 agendum 1. "TPAC https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/24thMarch2015/results#x2673" taken up [from AWK] 15:10:57 Ryladog has joined #wai-wcag 15:11:27 Scribe: Katie Haritos-Shea 15:11:28 zakim, agenda? 15:11:28 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda: 15:11:29 1. TPAC https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/24thMarch2015/results#x2673 [from AWK] 15:11:29 2. Charter update - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/2015WCAGSurvey/ [from AWK] 15:11:29 3. New issue https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/86 [from AWK] 15:11:30 4. Page structure tutorial https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/PageStructureTutorial1/ [from AWK] 15:11:35 zakim, mute me 15:11:36 Joshue should now be muted 15:11:38 ScribeNick: Ryladog 15:11:48 Meeting: WCAG Working Group Teleconference 15:11:57 Chair: Andrew Kirkpatrick 15:12:46 AWK: Two people will not be there, some will be there, many would like to be at TPAC 2015 15:12:54 TOPIC: TPAC 2015 15:13:16 AWK: Not sure if it will happen at this time 15:13:21 Zakim, take up item 4 15:13:21 agendum 4. "Page structure tutorial https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/PageStructureTutorial1/" taken up [from AWK] 15:13:26 DM: Unlikely that I will attend 15:13:27 Zakim, take up item 5 15:13:27 I only see 4 items on the agenda 15:13:30 q? 15:13:35 Zakim, take up item 3 15:13:35 agendum 3. "New issue https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/86" taken up [from AWK] 15:13:55 TOPIC: New Issues 15:14:55 AWK: 1 new in GH #86 around keyboard heading navigation. Someone says heading supporting for UA is not existent - who can look into this 15:15:00 DM: I can 15:15:17 Zakim, take up item 4 15:15:17 agendum 4. "Page structure tutorial https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/PageStructureTutorial1/" taken up [from AWK] 15:15:30 TOPIC: Page Structure Tutorial 15:15:33 http://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/page-structure/ 15:15:46 AWK: Did you get a chance to review for technical issues 15:16:04 AWK: Do not worry about the philosophical differences 15:16:31 AWK; We just want to ensure that there is no erroneous info in here 15:16:54 AWK: Loretta and and Mark J. , anyone esle? 15:17:12 KW: I did but I do not have my notes. I will find them 15:17:21 AWK: Any big errors? 15:17:40 KW: A couple of small things in the code I forget but will review my notes 15:17:46 AWK: Mark? 15:18:13 MJ: Om initial pages I see no issue , but I have just started 15:18:28 AWK: Lorreta, you thpught it was good 15:18:33 LGR: Yes 15:18:52 s/thpught/thought 15:19:26 + +1.313.390.aabb 15:19:32 AWK: Eric would like to publish this tutorial - in a skim I did not see anything glaring. I like the content structure 15:19:39 Mike_Elledge has joined #wai-wcag 15:20:34 AWK: Page section content has HTML5 and ARIA role content that is brought into the mix. I feel personally, with Loretta and my review that we should have much concern 15:20:47 q? 15:20:49 AWK: I think it is OK, how do others feel? 15:21:00 q+ 15:21:13 DM: This look like a best practices document here... 15:21:27 DM: where they have the navigation elements 15:21:28 http://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/page-structure/sections/#labeling-sections 15:21:37 ^^DavidMacD 15:22:07 DM: Role=navigation, not many sites have just one navigation role. So I think it needs ARIA 15:22:21 -q 15:22:50 AWK: Should it add some text for multple naav to add ARIA label 15:23:02 DM: Yes, at least we should have an example 15:23:07 q+ 15:23:18 ack me 15:23:20 DM: How important is having a role 15:23:51 ...+ nav when you have an HTML5 nav with the role of Nav 15:24:06 JO: OK I have the same concener 15:24:42 q+ 15:24:47 How about 'It can be used multiple times on a page, and aria-label can also be used to distinguish them appropriately'. 15:24:47 DM: This will be come the quintessential way to do things...we have this opportunity here to do that 15:25:01 DM: I am just taking a quick look at this time 15:25:13 It can be used multiple times on a page, and aria-label should be used to distinguish them appropriately' 15:25:38 DM: I do not rea;ly have time to review this, sorry 15:26:09 AWK: I do not think it is Davids responsibility to reiveiw this 15:26:25 AWK: Can we accept the revies we have 15:26:27 CHange to "When the nav element is used multiple times on a page each nav element should be identified" ? 15:26:44 ack me 15:27:01 JO: Eric is talking about issues ith IE11 and this nav issues, so we should include that info 15:27:18 q+ 15:27:46 AWK: Maybe identify seconday labels 15:27:53 ack Kathy 15:27:58 Ack eric 15:28:03 JO: I am not particularly a fan of primary secodary etc 15:28:15 KW: I found my list of review 15:28:15 s/secodary/secondary 15:28:45 EE: It is clear that we should use aria-label and we could have some compatability info - as an option 15:28:46 zakim, mute me 15:28:46 EricE should now be muted 15:28:54 AWK: OK. Kathy 15:29:00 http://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/page-structure/headings/ 15:29:36 q? 15:29:55 KW: In the headings section - my question is do it with H1, should we say ideally H1 and take out H2 15:30:01 KHS: I agree 15:30:06 +1 15:30:18 DM: I agree 15:30:34 AWK: Maybe we should remove this last senetnce entirely 15:30:49 +1 to AWK 15:30:49 AWK: Say use the highest heading avaible 15:30:56 ack me 15:31:08 s/avaible/available 15:31:24 AWK; Is it OK to ask you to do what EO just asked you NOT to do? 15:31:25 zakim, mute me 15:31:25 EricE should now be muted 15:31:32 +James_Nurthen 15:31:32 EE: Sure. I amthe buffer 15:31:52 AWK: What do we think? 15:32:05 AWK: Changes can happen after it is published 15:32:56 AWK: We may never be able to reach perfection.......:-) Are we comfortable for WCAG to say this is good enough to go? 15:33:17 ...or should we review it and who? 15:33:26 ack me 15:33:50 DM: Maybe I can. Eric have you found any browser that supports the Q element? I havent. 15:34:24 JO: We should keep it in for coverage and one day UA should support the specs that have it 15:34:27 -Loretta 15:34:57 +[IPcaller] 15:35:06 zakim, IPcaller is Loretta 15:35:06 +Loretta; got it 15:35:10 AWK: There is benefits for using it now - even though it might not be supported in SC, but it will be supported for other users 15:35:19 ack me 15:35:23 AWK: Do any SC read the CSS generated content 15:35:27 DM: No 15:35:33 JO: Of course they do 15:36:04 JN: If it is just using the virtual buffer it will not, but other wise it should 15:36:16 DM; But it did not show up in the DOM 15:36:27 DM: But it is not reading it. 15:36:52 JN: But it is in the AAPI 15:37:05 Trust, but verify! 15:37:14 AWK: David may have some time today 15:37:36 DM: The only thing that stuck out was tis and caption - so I amy have a few 15:37:42 zakim, mute ne 15:37:42 sorry, Joshue108, I do not know which phone connection belongs to ne 15:37:45 zakim, mute me 15:37:45 Joshue should now be muted 15:38:07 +1 15:38:10 +1 to AWK 15:38:11 ack me 15:38:30 AWK: Can we say that e are OK with this progressing towards being published - knoing that Davisd will provide some comment today. Are we commfortable with this? 15:38:43 s/that e/that we 15:39:08 EE: It is not about Publication today. There is still going to be another round of revieew before publishing 15:39:11 q? 15:39:23 AWK; OK great, I was misinformed 15:39:25 zakim, mute me 15:39:25 EricE should now be muted 15:39:25 brb 15:40:11 ack me 15:40:13 +1 15:40:20 Zakim, take up item 2 15:40:20 agendum 2. "Charter update - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/2015WCAGSurvey/" taken up [from AWK] 15:40:20 AWK We provide comments - hopefully other will tale a look at it and provide comments - so that next time Eric asked for publication we will be ready to go 15:40:30 👍 15:40:35 TOPIC: Charter DIscussion 15:40:46 zakim, mute me 15:40:46 Joshue should now be muted 15:40:54 s/DI/Di/ 15:40:59 AWK: This is the mail item that we talk about 15:41:07 q+ to provide background on the non-web point 15:41:50 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:41:50 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/31-wai-wcag-minutes.html Ryladog 15:42:02 ack me 15:42:29 AWK: There were several formal objection to WAI charters - with 7 formal objections - as a result there is alot of scrutiny. 15:42:56 AWK: The consensus is that the world is ready for normative work in WCAG 15:43:04 zakim, mute me 15:43:04 Joshue should now be muted 15:43:31 AWK: We are not talking about WCAG 3 - but are talking about shorter documents that are extension docuiments. The first would be Mobile Touch 15:44:13 ...that would extend WCAG> Perhaps in the future folks would say "I want to adopt WCAG2 plus X extension" 15:45:03 s/docuiments/documents 15:45:06 ....so that will free us up to do normative work. Technique and Understanding docs would be needed for the extensions 15:46:10 AWK: You can see from the charter 15:47:12 AWK: Also in scope is developing the normative extensions in several areas, we can add them. Badnwidth will be our limiter here 15:47:34 AWK: LOw Vision needs a more defined affort 15:47:52 q? 15:48:12 AWK: Further ahead further down the road , more 2020, and then coordinating with other groups in W3C. We still can have task forces 15:48:46 AWK: Deliverable: Tej Understanding and Techniques 15:48:56 AWK: Editor REq by the end of the year 15:49:23 AWK: We expect alot tto come from Cognitive and Mobile work. Targeting a Mobile Extension 15:49:39 AWK: New REq by April 2018 15:49:40 q+ 15:50:03 ack me 15:50:03 MichaelC, you wanted to provide background on the non-web point 15:50:04 ack m 15:50:40 MC: I wanted to try to fast track the comments questioning excluding non-web content. I treid o look into the background of this 15:50:54 http://www.w3.org/2013/05/14-wai-wcag-minutes 15:50:58 http://www.w3.org/2013/06/04-wai-wcag-minutes 15:51:09 s/I treid o look/I tried to look 15:51:14 q+ 15:51:22 MC: I though tthat Judy had asked us to add this. But I was wrong. It was the WG that wanted to add this. There were meerting where we talked about this 15:51:38 s/though tthat/thought that 15:51:57 MC: Judy wants to not have that limitation as well 15:52:21 MC: And Loretta agrrees now 15:52:30 ack k 15:52:32 s/agrrees/agrees 15:52:33 q- 15:52:50 MC: So I think we can come to consensus on this quickly to oepn up that limitation 15:53:02 KW: WHat is the Mobile scope? 15:53:20 KW: How will those dates flow together and where they came from? 15:54:00 MC: We tried to toss some milestones into the air - because we have to have them in the document. We needd to now have those converstaions. 15:54:40 Management likes to have Reqs completed in a charter cycle. Please give us nbetter suggestions 15:54:52 s/nbetter/better 15:55:08 MC: A fPWD dos not have to be super mature to publish. We can sgue for some later daye 15:56:05 KW: We are working on techniques. We have something. As long as the expectation is something. A skeleton. Then that is OK 15:56:26 MC: That is OK. The first draft might have a bifg section that is Requirements 15:56:57 AWK: There is 23 months between FPWD and CR 15:57:13 rrsagent, make minutes 15:57:13 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/31-wai-wcag-minutes.html Ryladog 15:57:30 AWK: It is a new review process 15:57:48 MC: I think it is better to have multiple WD to get pleny of feedback 15:58:01 zakim, who is here? 15:58:01 On the phone I see AWK, Marc_Johlic, Kathy_Wahlbin, David_MacDonald, Katie_Haritos-Shea, EricE (muted), Kenny (muted), Michael_Cooper, Joshue (muted), +1.313.390.aabb, 15:58:05 ... James_Nurthen, Loretta 15:58:05 On IRC I see Mike_Elledge, Ryladog, marcjohlic, David, Loretta, Kathy, Zakim, RRSAgent, AWK, MichaelC, Joshue108, yatil, MarkS, trackbot, Kenny 15:58:58 ack l 15:59:33 Present: AWK, Marc_Johlic, Kathy_Wahlbin, David_MacDonald, Katie_Haritos-Shea, EricE, Kenny, Michael_Cooper, Joshue, Mike_Elledge, marcjohlic, David, Loretta, Kathy, MichaelC, Joshue108, yatil, MarkS, Kenny 16:00:11 AWK: So, we have liaison in here - the WAI coordination is going to be removed 16:00:20 q? 16:00:24 AWK: Questions, comments, thoughts? 16:01:06 MC: To answer David we left that open on person as to who we would liaise with 16:01:09 DM: OK 16:01:17 -James_Nurthen 16:01:18 +[Microsoft] 16:01:35 AWK: MaryJo has a comment, 16:01:48 MC: I dont know it might be a good comment 16:02:07 AWK: Maybe review the WCAG2ICT note in light of exstensions 16:02:17 CherieE has joined #wai-wcag 16:02:23 AWK: I worry about having enough time - it should be on th radar 16:03:17 MC: If we are going to publish the charter wwith some escape langauge. If we think we might updayte WCAG2ICT then we should put in ino tht eRquirmenets with milestones 16:03:51 AWK; We can re-invigorate a Task force to review that 16:04:12 MC: We have to have something in the charet allowing us to publish it 16:04:46 MC: It should be listed as the Understanding and Techniques 16:04:58 KHS: I agree...but hate that I do 16:05:17 AWK: What do others thinks? 16:05:58 MC: This is a level of baeocracy that most peoeple dont worry about 16:06:48 AWK: With WCAG 2 being stable. This is just an update - and WCAG 2 WCAG2ICT Extension 16:07:34 MC: Maybe we should put in updated guidance on HOw do WCAG guidance extend to non-web items - that might give us some protection 16:08:30 zakim, mute me 16:08:30 Joshue was already muted, Joshue108 16:08:32 q? 16:08:33 MC: Last bullet at the end of Item 2 in the Scope section 16:09:21 MC: Guidance for how WCAG 2.0 extensions could apply to non-web content if needed 16:09:31 AWK: Where would this go 16:09:45 AWK: A new bullet right before # 3 in the Scope section 16:10:03 CM: I giess as needed is good 16:10:15 MC: I think this will give us coverage if needed 16:10:25 +1 16:10:31 +1 16:10:34 s/CM: I giess/MC: I guess 16:10:50 Zakim, who is on the phone? 16:10:50 On the phone I see AWK, Marc_Johlic, Kathy_Wahlbin, David_MacDonald, Katie_Haritos-Shea, EricE (muted), Kenny (muted), Michael_Cooper, Joshue (muted), +1.313.390.aabb, Loretta, 16:10:54 ... [Microsoft] 16:10:55 AWK: Any thoughts or questions? 16:11:20 +1 16:11:27 zakim, aabb is Mike_Elledge 16:11:27 +Mike_Elledge; got it 16:11:33 zakim, Microsoft is Cherie_Eckholm 16:11:33 +Cherie_Eckholm; got it 16:11:45 zakim, who is here? 16:11:45 On the phone I see AWK, Marc_Johlic, Kathy_Wahlbin, David_MacDonald, Katie_Haritos-Shea, EricE (muted), Kenny (muted), Michael_Cooper, Joshue (muted), Mike_Elledge, Loretta, 16:11:48 ... Cherie_Eckholm 16:11:48 On IRC I see Mike_Elledge, Ryladog, marcjohlic, David, Loretta, Kathy, Zakim, RRSAgent, AWK, MichaelC, Joshue108, yatil, MarkS, trackbot, Kenny 16:12:44 AWK: This week there is the first meeting with W3C team and trying to resolve the comments that were made that resulted in formal objections 16:13:07 AWK: What are the suggestions for WCAG, ATAG, UAAG, etc 16:13:51 AWK: If we can say at that meeting we can say through our charter that - that we could address all of th formal objection commenst that came in against WAI 16:14:42 AWK: The most point was WCAG2 is falling behind and think we need new normative work - we want to satisfy those needs with our new charter text 16:15:07 AWK: We need to be prepared to say yes, we are willing to do this 16:15:47 MC: With these changes it would go for a review with the Advisory Committee which will be more than a months 16:16:17 ack me 16:16:19 MC: If it goes through - all mmebers will be asked to re-join the working group.Be prepared for that 16:16:38 zakim, mute me 16:16:38 Joshue should now be muted 16:16:56 MC: My experience we end up losing important participants 16:17:13 MC: So please prepare for this with your comapnies 16:17:21 s/p.B/p. B/ 16:17:30 AWK: Are there any objection to this charter? 16:17:58 RESOLUTION: WE will sned this Chater to the W3C Advisory Commitee for firther revie 16:18:19 s/Chater/Charter 16:18:31 s/sned/send 16:18:50 s/Commitee/Committee 16:18:58 s/firther/further 16:19:18 s/firther revie/further review 16:19:30 AWK: It is very exciting. Thank you. 16:19:35 ack me 16:19:39 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/31-wai-wcag-minutes.html MichaelC 16:19:53 I have that same excitement 16:20:15 zakim, agenda? 16:20:15 I see 4 items remaining on the agenda: 16:20:16 1. TPAC https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/24thMarch2015/results#x2673 [from AWK] 16:20:16 2. Charter update - https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/2015WCAGSurvey/ [from AWK] 16:20:16 3. New issue https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/86 [from AWK] 16:20:17 4. Page structure tutorial https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35532/PageStructureTutorial1/ [from AWK] 16:20:20 AWK: That might cover our agenda 16:20:48 AWK: Thank you everyone, We ill keep providing updates 16:20:56 s/further revie/further review/ 16:21:17 AWK: We are not meeting next Thursday - but Teusday wew will at this time 16:21:52 AWK: There are comments that can be revieiwed etc until we know 16:22:42 MC: The working group is formally extended until May 18th 16:22:43 jamesn has joined #wai-wcag 16:22:56 rrsagent, make minutes 16:22:56 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/31-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn 16:23:02 AWK: May 19th is a Tuesday.... 16:23:10 zakim, mute me 16:23:10 Joshue should now be muted 16:23:13 AWK: Thanks All! 16:23:14 Bye! 16:23:18 -Kathy_Wahlbin 16:23:22 -Joshue 16:23:25 -Mike_Elledge 16:23:27 -AWK 16:23:27 zakim, drop me 16:23:27 EricE is being disconnected 16:23:28 -EricE 16:23:28 -Loretta 16:23:28 -Katie_Haritos-Shea 16:23:29 -Marc_Johlic 16:23:29 -David_MacDonald 16:23:32 -Michael_Cooper 16:23:34 -Kenny 16:23:41 rrsagent, make minutes 16:23:41 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/31-wai-wcag-minutes.html Ryladog 16:23:56 trackbot, end meeting 16:23:56 Zakim, list attendees 16:23:56 As of this point the attendees have been +1.617.766.aaaa, AWK, Joshue, Marc_Johlic, Kathy_Wahlbin, David_MacDonald, Loretta, Katie_Haritos-Shea, EricE, Kenny, Michael_Cooper, 16:23:59 ... +1.313.390.aabb, James_Nurthen, Mike_Elledge, Cherie_Eckholm 16:24:03 trackbot, status? 16:24:04 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 16:24:04 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/31-wai-wcag-minutes.html trackbot 16:24:05 RRSAgent, bye 16:24:05 I see no action items 18:01:31 RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag 18:01:31 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/31-wai-wcag-irc 18:01:40 rrsagent, make log world 18:02:11 present: AWK, Joshue, Marc_Johlic, Kathy_Wahlbin, David_MacDonald, Loretta, Katie_Haritos-Shea, EricE, Kenny, Michael_Cooper, 18:02:11 James_Nurthen, Mike_Elledge, Cherie_Eckholm 18:02:32 present: AWK, Joshue, Marc_Johlic, Kathy_Wahlbin, David_MacDonald, Loretta, Katie_Haritos-Shea, EricE, Kenny, Michael_Cooper, James_Nurthen, Mike_Elledge, Cherie_Eckholm 18:02:37 rrsagent, make minutes 18:02:37 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/31-wai-wcag-minutes.html MichaelC 18:24:45 jnurthen has joined #wai-wcag