13:57:53 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #tt
13:57:53 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/26-tt-irc
13:57:55 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
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13:57:57 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be TTML
13:57:57 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
13:57:58 <trackbot> Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
13:57:58 <trackbot> Date: 26 March 2015
14:00:49 <Zakim> SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has now started
14:00:54 <Zakim> +pal
14:00:54 <nigel> Present: nigel
14:00:56 <pal> pal has joined #tt
14:00:57 <Zakim> +nigel
14:01:05 <nigel> Present+ pal
14:01:07 <nigel> chair: nigel
14:01:28 <nigel> scribe: nigel
14:01:42 <nigel> Topic: This meeting
14:02:11 <glenn> glenn has joined #tt
14:04:11 <nigel> Regrets: Frans
14:04:14 <Zakim> +glenn
14:04:22 <nigel> Regrets+ jdsmith
14:04:26 <nigel> Present+ glenn
14:04:37 <Zakim> -glenn
14:05:29 <Zakim> +glenn
14:06:31 <Zakim> +Andreas
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14:07:01 <nigel> nigel: We have an extra agenda item today on tmichel's request, for the WebVTT comments
14:07:07 <nigel> Present+ Andreas
14:07:11 <nigel> group: no AOB
14:07:53 <nigel> Topics: Actions
14:07:56 <nigel> action-378?
14:07:56 <trackbot> action-378 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Draft smpte request including dispositions from action-369 and backgroundcolor initial value question -- due 2015-03-05 -- OPEN
14:07:56 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/378
14:08:14 <nigel> nigel: I did this and sent it round
14:08:21 <nigel> close action-378
14:08:21 <trackbot> Closed action-378.
14:08:54 <nigel> nigel: Let's defer discussion of action-379 to the IMSC test suite agenda item
14:09:52 <nigel> action-381?
14:09:52 <trackbot> action-381 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Prepare new list of changes to imsc 1 since cr1. -- due 2015-03-26 -- OPEN
14:09:52 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/381
14:10:18 <nigel> pal: I have a draft here but need to do some more work on it before I send it. I'll do that ASAP - apologies for not getting around to it.
14:10:40 <nigel> action-383?
14:10:40 <trackbot> action-383 -- Glenn Adams to Missing XML declaration -- due 2015-03-26 -- OPEN
14:10:40 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/383
14:11:39 <nigel> glenn: I added this in but have a problem with the bindings processor, so I need to figure out what's going on.
14:11:56 <nigel> ... when I take it out the jaxb binding parser succeeds. But if I don't generate the bindings then
14:12:14 <nigel> ... there's no problem so I need to do some more work to figure out the resolution. I did update
14:12:21 <nigel> ... the schema document in the repository.
14:13:33 <nigel> nigel: That didn't appear in the TTML Changelog RSS feed for some reason.
14:15:33 <nigel> reopen action-378
14:15:33 <trackbot> Re-opened action-378.
14:15:40 <nigel> action-382
14:15:40 <trackbot> action-382 -- Nigel Megitt to Summarise action-369 end point -- due 2015-03-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:15:40 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/382
14:15:55 <nigel> nigel: My mistake earlier - it should be this one that I close, as discussed earlier.
14:15:58 <nigel> close action-382
14:15:58 <trackbot> Closed action-382.
14:16:09 <nigel> action-380?
14:16:09 <trackbot> action-380 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Create imsc 1 issues for removing initial value constraints, rounding definitions different to ttml1 and frame rate relationship to video -- due 2015-03-26 -- PENDINGREVIEW
14:16:09 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/380
14:16:33 <nigel> pal: I did create those issues, and have also implemented them.
14:16:39 <nigel> close action-380
14:16:39 <trackbot> Closed action-380.
14:16:53 <nigel> Topic: F2F
14:17:31 <nigel> nigel: On the Las Vegas F2F, there's not much more to report. Dae Kim of Netflix will be observing.
14:17:47 <nigel> https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/F2F-april-2015
14:19:15 <nigel> glenn: I'm planning to spend some time from April 1 to prepare some updates to TTML2 and will
14:19:23 <nigel> ... be generating some topics that we will want to discuss.
14:20:45 <nigel> pal: I don't have any particular outstanding items for IMSC 1 right now, though some may arise.
14:21:05 <nigel> ... I do have some TTML2 issues that I plan to raise, which may generate some discussion also.
14:21:33 <nigel> nigel: Thanks both. Looking at TPAC 2015 in Sapporo, I sent round a link to a survey, whose results
14:21:45 <nigel> ... I will be using to provide a group response to the organisers.
14:21:51 <nigel> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/34314/TTWGTPAC2015/
14:22:19 <nigel> nigel: Thanks for the responses so far. The survey stays open until 22nd April.
14:22:56 <nigel> nigel: The early results are enough to say that we will have a f2f meeting in Sapporo.
14:23:08 <nigel> ... Probably on the Monday and Tuesday.
14:23:55 <nigel> pal: It would be really great if the TTWG meetings don't overlap with the HTML media task force meetings.
14:24:06 <nigel> ... A joint meeting could be a really good idea.
14:25:16 <nigel> nigel: Thanks that's a really good point.
14:25:32 <nigel> ... There's still time to complete this survey - please do if you haven't already.
14:25:49 <nigel> Topic: IMSC 1 Test Suite and Implementation Report
14:26:00 <nigel> action-379?
14:26:00 <trackbot> action-379 -- Nigel Megitt to Obtain png images for #linepadding and #multirowalign test cases. -- due 2015-03-19 -- OPEN
14:26:00 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/379
14:27:02 <nigel> nigel: I did send round some HTML as a source for creating a PNG. Andreas, you had a concern?
14:27:22 <nigel> atai: I think we should not use HTML as a reference source especially if it uses advanced features.
14:27:42 <nigel> ... It may not look the same on all clients. Even if we recommend a specific browser version it may
14:27:53 <nigel> ... generate a false understanding. We should maybe only use PNGs.
14:28:20 <nigel> glenn: I'd emphasise that we absolutely cannot use HTML. The two options are SVG and PNG.
14:28:45 <nigel> nigel: That's fine - and it wasn't my intention that the HTML be used directly.
14:29:38 <Zakim> -glenn
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14:33:01 <nigel> glenn: Of course it's useful for us in our working group to use HTML to work on mappings or quick demos
14:33:20 <nigel> ... but for test content or images to go into the spec we should use SVG or PNG.
14:33:26 <nigel> nigel: I'd second that.
14:33:57 <nigel> pal: The examples worked okay for me though there were some strange artefacts and line box boundaries
14:34:03 <nigel> ... (Chrome on Win7)
14:34:17 <nigel> nigel: Chrome on Mac OS X looks fine for me.
14:35:50 <nigel> nigel: I'm happy to turn those into PNGs then. The only thing is that it might help if we reduce the
14:36:16 <nigel> ... amount of text so that it fits on two lines not three, on a 16:9 window. Or reduce the font size.
14:36:44 <nigel> ... I'd be happy either way. I'll do some fiddling with the example and the HTML equivalent and send
14:36:50 <nigel> ... you the results, Pierre.
14:36:53 <nigel> pal: That makes sense.
14:39:26 <nigel> nigel: I have a colleague working on an implementation and that generated a question that's
14:40:00 <nigel> ... unclear from TTML. Is the width of the background area the content area of the parent region
14:40:17 <nigel> ... less the padding or is it as wide as the widest line area of the content of the p?
14:40:35 <nigel> glenn: It should be the width of the content area which is the width of the parent element's aree
14:40:54 <nigel> ... minus any padding, so in TTML1 that's the region's width, but in TTML2 body and div can have
14:40:59 <nigel> ... their own padding values.
14:41:30 <nigel> s/region's width/region's width minus region padding
14:43:24 <nigel> nigel: In that case the examples in TTML are at best ambiguous and possibly misleading. I may raise an issue on this.
14:43:48 <nigel> nigel: For example the sample image on tts:backgroundColor, where the text width happens to be
14:44:05 <nigel> ... exactly the same as the padding inset area, so it looks as though the purple background on the
14:44:17 <nigel> ... p is wrapped to the contained content not the padding width.
14:44:37 <nigel> glenn: You're right, I think this could be made clearer. Perhaps a couple of additional examples
14:44:40 <nigel> ... would be appropriate.
14:44:49 <nigel> nigel: Okay, I'll raise that then.
14:45:44 <nigel> Andreas: Can we discuss issue-375?
14:45:47 <nigel> issue-375?
14:45:47 <trackbot> issue-375 -- Use of the ebutts:linePadding and ebutts:multiRowAlign in IMSC 1 -- open
14:45:47 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/375
14:46:16 <nigel> Andreas: I can confirm that ebutts:multiRowAlign does apply only to tt:p and is inheritable. We should
14:46:26 <nigel> ... update EBU-TT-D, and in the meantime we should update IMSC 1 accordingly.
14:46:45 <nigel> pal: Just to confirm, the proposed resolution is to add some text to IMSC 1?
14:46:48 <nigel> Andreas: I'll just check...
14:47:09 <nigel> ... ... I think the issue we raised is that it could be used for inline styling, but then you brought up
14:47:14 <glenn_> hmm, i just lost audio, calling back
14:47:18 <Zakim> -glenn
14:47:30 <nigel> ... the other issue. Yes, I think it's not right because it only applies to tt:p. If you apply it to region,
14:47:37 <Zakim> +glenn
14:47:50 <nigel> ... body or div it would give a completely different result. If it applied to a div then the reference would
14:48:02 <nigel> ... be the longest line in the container. It should only apply to tt:p and be inheritable.
14:48:09 <nigel> pal: How do you want to proceed?
14:48:33 <nigel> Andreas: I can propose some text. It's just a matter of reproducing the information that's on the
14:48:44 <nigel> ... style attributes in TTML. I'll put the proposed text in the issue for review.
14:49:19 <nigel> issue-375: [meeting 2015-003-26] Andreas to propose some wording to make clear that ebutts:multiRowAlign applies only to tt:p and is inheritable.
14:49:19 <trackbot> Notes added to issue-375 Use of the ebutts:linePadding and ebutts:multiRowAlign in IMSC 1.
14:49:45 <nigel> pal: Andreas, could I ask you to do this by the end of the week? That will allow me to complete my
14:49:54 <nigel> ... report on the changes since the CR?
14:50:00 <nigel> s/?/.
14:50:05 <nigel> Andreas: Yes, I will do that.
14:50:06 <nigel> pal: Thanks
14:50:34 <nigel> Topic: WebVTT
14:50:57 <nigel> nigel: Since Thierry is not on the call, and he requested this topic, I'll defer it.
14:51:10 <nigel> Topic: Issues
14:51:33 <nigel> issue-376?
14:51:33 <trackbot> issue-376 -- Missing XML declaration -- raised
14:51:33 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/376
14:51:58 <nigel> reopen issue-376
14:51:58 <trackbot> Re-opened issue-376.
14:52:15 <nigel> nigel: This is the schema issue we discussed earlier - work has already begun.
14:52:25 <nigel> issue-379?
14:52:25 <trackbot> issue-379 -- ruby text should used special inheritance algorithm -- raised
14:52:25 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/379
14:53:08 <nigel> glenn: As we were implementing Ruby support we realised that inheriting the font size and line height
14:53:22 <nigel> ... by default it would collide with an automatic sizing algorithm for fonts because one could not
14:53:36 <nigel> ... distinguish between the author's genuine intent vs having no default or initial value, in which
14:53:50 <nigel> ... case automatic sizing would apply. What we've implemented is that for textContainer it does not
14:54:04 <nigel> ... inherit any fontSize or lineHeight unless it's explicitly specified on the textContainer and on the
14:54:20 <nigel> ... text Ruby that could be a child of a textContainer (or not). It can inherit from a parent textContainer
14:54:39 <nigel> ... but no further. In other words if the textContainer specified a fontSize or lineHeight the contained
14:54:46 <nigel> ... text would also get that, otherwise it would not.
14:55:20 <nigel> nigel: It's tempting to suggest the keyword auto for fontSize, to make the same distinction.
14:55:34 <nigel> glenn: There's somewhere else where that could be useful, for content fitting, but I don't want to
14:55:52 <nigel> ... go there quite yet. For example, find a font size that will fit the content into the region.
14:56:14 <nigel> glenn: The tradition of the keyword auto in CSS is: let the UA figure out what's best. So it's impossible
14:56:25 <nigel> ... to define interoperability when it comes to the use of auto.
14:56:33 <nigel> reopen issue-379
14:56:33 <trackbot> Re-opened issue-379.
14:56:49 <nigel> issue-367?
14:56:49 <trackbot> issue-367 -- Clarify initial value override for tts:textAlign -- pending review
14:56:49 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/367
14:57:08 <nigel> pal: This has been implemented.
14:57:54 <nigel> nigel: This and issue-377 and issue-378 have been implemented this week and nobody on the call
14:58:05 <nigel> ... has had a chance to review yet, so let's leave those for another week.
14:58:57 <nigel> pal: There's nothing to call out particularly - these implementations follow what we came to a
14:59:07 <nigel> ... consensus on during the last call.
15:00:13 <nigel> nigel: I think you can proceed with the changes relative to CR document based on assumed acceptance of these issue implementations.
15:00:18 <nigel> pal: That's what I'll do.
15:01:02 <Zakim> -Andreas
15:01:05 <Zakim> -glenn
15:01:06 <Zakim> -nigel
15:01:08 <Zakim> -pal
15:01:09 <Zakim> SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has ended
15:01:10 <Zakim> Attendees were pal, nigel, glenn, Andreas
15:01:27 <nigel> nigel: We've hit time for today, so thanks very much everyone. We'll meet again same time next
15:01:52 <nigel> ... week, which for folk in Europe is back to the traditional time because DST comes in this week here.
15:01:58 <nigel> ... [adjourns meeting]
15:02:02 <nigel> rrsagent, make logs public
15:02:05 <nigel> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:02:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/26-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:04:18 <nigel> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:04:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/26-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:04:55 <nigel> rrsagent, make logs public
15:05:00 <nigel> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:05:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/26-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:06:44 <nigel> s/Topics:/Topic:
15:07:29 <nigel> i/close action-378/See later - this comment actually refers to Action-382. Action-378 remains open
15:10:43 <nigel> s/width of the background area the content area/width of the background area of a tt:p the content area
15:11:01 <nigel> a/aree/area
15:13:41 <nigel> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:13:41 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/26-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:14:19 <nigel> s|a/aree/area|
15:14:23 <nigel> s/aree/area
15:14:25 <nigel> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:14:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/26-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:16:41 <nigel> ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
15:17:09 <nigel> rrsagent, generate minutes
15:17:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/26-tt-minutes.html nigel
15:18:27 <nigel> nigel has changed the topic to: Timed Text Working Group: Next meeting 2015-04-02 1400 UTC
15:36:51 <nigel>  Oh, I see that the TTML changelog RSS feed now shows the XML schema update we discussed, timed 39 minutes ago.
15:36:58 <nigel> Glad that's fixed...
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