14:48:03 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #mobile-a11y
14:48:03 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/26-mobile-a11y-irc
14:48:05 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:48:05 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #mobile-a11y
14:48:07 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF
14:48:07 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_MATF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
14:48:08 <trackbot> Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:48:08 <trackbot> Date: 26 March 2015
14:48:22 <Kim>  chair: Kathleen_Wahlbin
14:48:53 <Kim>  agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-mobile-a11y-tf/2015Mar/0022.html
14:52:12 <Kim> agenda+ Comments on note http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Comments_on_Mobile_Accessibility_Note_20150226
14:52:14 <Kim>  agenda+ Use Cases http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Mobile_Accessibility_Use_Cases
14:52:15 <Kim>  agenda+ New work on input methods
14:52:17 <Kim>  agenda+ Next Steps – Next meeting Thursday, April 2
14:54:15 <Kim> regrets+ David_McDonald, Henny_Swan,  Alan
14:54:53 <Kathy> Kathy has joined #mobile-a11y
14:57:16 <Zakim> WAI_MATF()11:00AM has now started
14:57:23 <Zakim> +Kathy_Wahlbin
14:58:21 <Kathy> trackbot, start meeting
14:58:23 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:58:25 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_MATF
14:58:25 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see WAI_MATF()11:00AM already started
14:58:26 <trackbot> Meeting: Mobile Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:58:26 <trackbot> Date: 26 March 2015
14:58:30 <Kathy> zakim, this will be 6283
14:58:30 <Zakim> ok, Kathy; I see WAI_MATF()11:00AM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
14:58:46 <Kathy> rrsagent, make log world
14:58:55 <Kathy> meeting: Mobile A11Y TF
14:59:09 <Kathy> chair: Kathy
14:59:20 <Kim> agenda?
15:00:50 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #mobile-a11y
15:01:13 <Detlev> Detlev has joined #mobile-a11y
15:03:10 <tbabinszki> tbabinszki has joined #mobile-a11y
15:03:30 <Shebanek> Shebanek has joined #mobile-a11y
15:03:36 <jon_avila> scribe: jon_avila
15:03:51 <jon_avila> zakim, take up next
15:03:51 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Comments on note http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Comments_on_Mobile_Accessibility_Note_20150226" taken up [from Kim]
15:04:41 <jon_avila> kw: Take some time to look at new comments and comments that come in on github.  Start with EO comments.  KP will look to see where we left off.
15:05:04 <Kathy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Comments_on_Mobile_Accessibility_Note_20150226
15:05:26 <jeanne> jeanne has joined #mobile-a11y
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15:05:40 <Jan> Jan has joined #mobile-a11y
15:05:53 <jon_avila> I'm pretty sure we covered 2.1
15:06:38 <jon_avila> kw: Pick up at 1.2.2 at authoring tools.  Give example of what an authoring tool is.
15:06:40 <HSwan> HSwan has joined #mobile-a11y
15:07:15 <jeanne> rrsagent, make minutes
15:07:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jeanne
15:07:21 <Kathy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Comments_on_Mobile_Accessibility_Note_20150226
15:07:25 <David> David has joined #mobile-a11y
15:07:28 <jon_avila> kw: will start at 2.2. Zoom and magnfication
15:08:14 <jon_avila> kw: comment to design and develop with these features in mind
15:09:11 <jon_avila> kw: multiple ways that we can provide this.  Building it in could be one way.
15:09:33 <jon_avila> Jan: thinks this is clear in our document.
15:09:54 <Jan> http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-TF-Note/
15:10:18 <jon_avila> jan: unclear where they got the idea that we are saying that the document doesn't cover browser options.
15:10:50 <jon_avila> kw: maybe we could add something in.
15:10:57 <jon_avila> jan: First bullet already covers this.
15:11:10 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #mobile-a11y
15:12:30 <jon_avila> jan: section addresses their concern.  Support going back asking for clarification.
15:12:41 <jon_avila> kw: will go back and ask for clarification.
15:14:12 <Detlev> q+
15:15:08 <Mike_Pluke> q+
15:15:25 <jeanne> JS: I recommend responding that we feel that the concerns have been addressed in the wiki.
15:16:20 <jon_avila> detlev: Perhaps we should describe what browsers need to do to support font enlargement
15:16:56 <jon_avila> mikeP: Doesn't highlight that there are good and bad ways of using the features.
15:17:38 <jon_avila> detlev: say browser vendor wants to know if there is value in adding font size adjustment to browser.  Who is this aimed at?  Web content developers?
15:18:18 <jon_avila> jan: one option is where we talk about OS setting we could drop the capitalization as the commenter suggests
15:19:52 <jon_avila> MikeS: perhaps we have the bullet reversed.  Perhaps we should say this is what you should this is what you shouldn't do.  We could split.  We should talk about text resize first and then talk about about blocking pinch zoom.
15:21:29 <jon_avila> kw: All agree to change capitalization
15:21:57 <jon_avila> kw: MikeS can you walk Jeanne through moving the bullets around and she will make changes.
15:23:04 <jon_avila> mikeS: Change phrase with 200% to say at least 200%
15:24:48 <jeanne> Use techniques that support text resizing without requiring horizontal panning. Relying on full viewport zooming (e.g. not blocking the browser's pinch zoom feature) requires the user to pan horizontally as well as vertically. While this technique meets the success criteria it is less usable than supporting text resizing features that reflow content to the user's chosen viewport size.
15:26:10 <jeanne> Use techniques that support text resizing without requiring horizontal panning. Relying on full viewport zooming (e.g. not blocking the browser's pinch zoom feature) requires the user to pan horizontally as well as vertically.
15:26:10 <jeanne> Ensure that the browser pinch zoom is not blocked by the page's viewport meta element so that it can be used to zoom the page to at least 200%. Restrictive values for user-scalable and maximum-scale attributes of this meta element should be avoided. While this technique meets the success criteria it is less usable than supporting text resizing features that reflow content to the user's
15:26:11 <jeanne> chosen viewport size.
15:26:25 <Kathy> http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-TF-Note/#zoom-magnification
15:31:06 <jon_avila> detlev: varying options may exist -- for example could offer desktop view with breakpoints.
15:31:38 <jon_avila> jeanne: New CSS item called snappoints which allow authors to put in points that allow the user to snap to certain points
15:32:11 <Mike_Pluke> +1
15:33:31 <jon_avila> MikeS: We should be consistent when referring to OS and platform
15:34:07 <jeanne> s/snap to certain points/snap to certain points while scrolling.
15:34:40 <Alan_Smith> Alan_Smith has joined #mobile-a11y
15:35:00 <Jan> Support for system fonts that follow platform level user preferences for text size. -> Support for OS text accessibility settings. For web applications this will depend on browser support.
15:35:39 <Alan_Smith> Sorry, I'm late. Was overbooked.
15:36:32 <Jan> Support for system fonts that follow platform level user preferences for text size. -> Support for OS text accessibility settings. For web content this will depend on browser support.
15:36:49 <Kathy> +1
15:36:51 <Detlev> +1
15:36:54 <Alan_Smith> +1
15:36:55 <Mike_Pluke> +1
15:36:56 <HSwan> +1
15:37:04 <marcjohlic> +1
15:37:08 <Kim> +1
15:38:42 <jon_avila> ja: say text size settings instead of accessibility text settings.
15:38:51 <jon_avila> kw: Can we just say OS text size settings?
15:38:52 <jon_avila> +1
15:38:59 <Jan> Support for system fonts that follow platform level user preferences for text size. -> Support for OS text size settings. For web content this will depend on browser support.
15:39:14 <Alan_Smith> +1
15:39:40 <tbabinszki> +1
15:39:41 <jon_avila> mikeS: Change phrase geared toward to say designed for specific population.
15:39:49 <jon_avila> kw: any objections?
15:40:24 <jon_avila> kw: Discussion of point size.  Commenter suggests changing point size to more generic text size.
15:41:01 <jon_avila> kw: comment applies to 2.3
15:43:15 <jon_avila> dm: point size refers to 1/72 of an inch on the users device.
15:46:15 <jon_avila> detlev: can we talk about measuring on-screen
15:46:24 <jon_avila> jan: who hold mobile device closer
15:47:31 <jon_avila> detlev: users with low vision may hold device closer just like they look closer at monitor
15:47:41 <David> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20/#larger-scaledef
15:48:03 <David> Note 3: The actual size of the character that a user sees is dependent both on the author-defined size and the user's display or user-agent settings. For many mainstream body text fonts, 14 and 18 point is roughly equivalent to 1.2 and 1.5 em or to 120% or 150% of the default size for body text (assuming that the body font is 100%), but authors would need to check this for the particular...
15:48:05 <David> ...fonts in use. When fonts are defined in relative units, the actual point size is calculated by the user agent for display. The point size should be obtained from the user agent, or calculated based on font metrics as the user agent does, when evaluating this success criterion. Users who have low vision would be responsible for choosing appropriate settings.
15:48:38 <Mike_Pluke> +q
15:48:47 <Detlev> q-
15:49:17 <jon_avila> mikeP: went through these argument in the EU standard.  Avoided using points.  Only way to go on large size and then rely on definitions
15:49:51 <jon_avila> kw: Any objections to change to large text instead of points?
15:49:59 <jon_avila> kw: hearing none we will make that change and close that out.
15:50:12 <jon_avila> kw: will come back to this conversation next week
15:50:17 <jon_avila> zakim, take up next
15:50:17 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, jon_avila
15:50:20 <Kathy> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Mobile_Accessibility_Use_Cases
15:50:36 <jon_avila> q?
15:51:30 <Mike_Pluke> -q
15:51:34 <jon_avila> zakim, take up next
15:51:34 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Use Cases http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Mobile_Accessibility_Use_Cases" taken up [from Kim]
15:52:29 <jon_avila> kw: Have a small list of mobile use cases.  If you think of other things from user perspective put them in so we can make sure we cover needs of different people with disabilities and how they interact with their devices to make sure we have everything covered and cover all the necessary techniques.
15:52:46 <jon_avila> kw: Please take a look and see if you can add use cases.
15:53:26 <jon_avila> zakim, take up next
15:53:26 <Zakim> agendum 3. "New work on input methods" taken up [from Kim]
15:54:17 <jon_avila> kw: Had good discussion at CSUN on different input techniques.  We need to create list of important techniques/best practices that we need to create for each of these areas.
15:54:40 <jon_avila> kw: Perhaps we'd put in placeholder where we could link off to for future editions of this document.  Is that correct Jeanne?
15:55:01 <jon_avila> jeanne: Yes, that is correct.  We could probably link to wiki pages where we are doing the work of drafting the content.
15:55:44 <jon_avila> kw: discussion on charters.  Once those are complete we should know more about direction of how and where things are going to look like.
15:56:11 <jon_avila> kw: Like us to concentrate on techniques and best practices.
15:57:48 <jon_avila> kw: focus on web first (sites and web apps)
15:58:31 <jon_avila> kw: Brainstorm now into github.  We will pick this up next week.
15:58:50 <jon_avila> kw: will setup survey where we can start talking about different techniques.  Focus on section #3 operable.
15:59:48 <jon_avila> kw: thanks everybody.
15:59:58 <jon_avila> zakim, list attendees
15:59:58 <Zakim> sorry, jon_avila, I don't know what conference this is
16:00:44 <jon_avila> zakim, list participants
16:00:44 <Zakim> sorry, jon_avila, I don't know what conference this is
16:01:23 <jon_avila> zakim, this conference will be #mobile-a11y
16:01:23 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, jon_avila
16:01:48 <jon_avila> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:02:00 <jon_avila> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:02:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jon_avila
16:03:14 <jon_avila> zakim, jon_avila is here
16:03:14 <Zakim> sorry, jon_avila, I do not recognize a party named 'jon_avila'
16:04:12 <jon_avila> jon_avila is present
16:06:42 <jon_avila> The following people were present: jon_avila, detlev, Kathy Wahlbin, Kim Patch, Jeanne Spellman, MarcJohlic, David Macdonald, Mike Pluke, Mike Sheebanek, Tom Babinszki, and Jan
16:06:56 <jon_avila> RRSAgent, Make minutes
16:06:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html jon_avila
16:09:08 <Kim> Marc, Alan, Henny also present
16:09:21 <Kim> RRSAgent, Make minutes
16:09:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/26-mobile-a11y-minutes.html Kim
16:10:43 <Kim>  zakim, list participants
16:10:43 <Zakim> sorry, Kim, I don't know what conference this is
16:10:59 <Kim>  rrsagent, bye
16:10:59 <RRSAgent> I see no action items