14:04:53 RRSAgent has joined #xproc 14:04:53 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/25-xproc-irc 14:05:02 zakim, this will be xproc 14:05:03 ok, Norm; I see XML_PMWG()10:00AM scheduled to start 5 minutes ago 14:05:13 zakim, passcode? 14:05:13 the conference code is 97762 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Norm 14:05:38 rrsagent, set logs world-visible 14:05:38 Meeting: XML Processing Model WG 14:05:38 Agenda: http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/03/25-agenda 14:05:38 Date: 25 March 2015 14:05:38 Meeting: 267 14:05:38 Chair: Norm 14:05:40 Scribe: Norm 14:05:42 ScribeNick: Norm 14:06:00 Regrets: Henry, Loren, Murray 14:06:06 Present: Norm, Alex, Jim 14:07:10 Topic: Accept this agenda? 14:07:10 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/03/25-agenda 14:07:13 Accepted. 14:07:21 Topic: Accept minutes from the previous meeting? 14:07:21 -> http://www.w3.org/XML/XProc/2015/03/11-minutes 14:07:22 Accepted. 14:07:26 Topic: Next meeting 14:07:26 Proposed: 1 April 2015 does anyone have to give regrets? 14:07:43 No regrets heard. Possible regrets from Henry, I can't recall for sure. 14:07:49 Topic: Review of open action items 14:08:13 Jim: I spent some time on mine, but haven't got anything ready for review yet. 14:08:21 No other progress reported. 14:08:36 Topic: Close issue #43 without action 14:08:43 -> Topic: Review of open action items 14:08:47 alexmilowski has joined #xproc 14:08:54 -> https://github.com/xproc/specification/issues/43 14:09:37 Norm proposes that there's insufficient support. 14:10:21 Jim wonders about new users. 14:10:52 Norm notes that it isn't in XSLT 14:11:10 Jim: I'm not sure that the XSLT user is the only thing we should consider, but I'm not sure this wins us very much. 14:11:33 Proposal: Close without action. 14:11:36 Any objections? 14:11:41 None heard. 14:12:08 Topic: Collector steps, issue 148 14:12:11 -> https://github.com/xproc/specification/issues/148 14:12:28 Jim: This came up in conversations at XML Prague. 14:12:49 ...This is day 0 concerns, more than after you've learned it all. 14:13:27 ...Today, if you're a new user, to get a document into a database, you need to understand a lot of topics. That can give a negative impression. 14:14:07 ...I wonder, now that we've considered multipart in other places, if we could accept glob values. 14:14:42 ...That could help new users. And if we like it there, what about p:document as well. 14:15:03 ...If we're going to change primitives, how does that hook into a higher level, like a database or webdav or anything. 14:15:21 ...I think after I talked to people about it, we're just looking at a simple change. 14:15:52 ...This also applies to some event driven stuff. But that's probably out of scope for 2.0. 14:15:58 ...In the end, I wonder if we can't do something simple. 14:16:32 Norm: Yeah, this came up as a comment in my proposal for p:document and p:load as well. 14:18:12 Norm waffles on about some sort of filter element inside inputs. 14:18:33 Jim: I think the filter is an interesting idea. We allow everything to be composed from the ground up, but I wonder where the primitives should be. 14:18:56 Jim: Doesn't content-type apply to multipart. 14:20:51 Some discussion of Norm's proposal for p:document and p:load (item 7 on today's agenda) 14:23:35 Norm observes that we could have a dtd-validate step now that we have the ability to have non-XML documents flowing through the pipeline. 14:25:21 Alex proposes that we should try to define things like p:load in terms of other subpipelines. 14:25:52 Topic: Clarify p:load, issue #145; see proposed changes to p:document and p:load. 14:26:00 -> https://github.com/xproc/specification/issues/145 14:26:06 -> https://ndw.github.io/specification/langspec/clarify-load/head/xproc20/diff.html#p.document 14:26:12 -> https://ndw.github.io/specification/langspec/clarify-load/head/xproc20-steps/diff.html#c.load 14:28:28 Norm walks through what he's done. 14:29:10 missing a space in the p:load descritption 14:29:21 Jim: A question about http-request came up while reading this. How do we deal with a GET on collections? 14:29:37 Norm: I don't think we do anything, there's no notion of collections in HTTP. We could write a webDAV step, but I think that'd be a different step. 14:29:47 Jim: Globbing wouldn't do anything on an http request. 14:29:57 Norm: Right. 14:30:33 Alex: I'd say building in magic is a bad idea. 14:30:39 Norm: Is globbing on file URIs magic? 14:30:57 Alex: That's different. The directory is a thing you can talk to. It has a POSIX API etc. 14:32:44 (finally, coffee!) 14:33:24 Norm: How about I try to tighten this up a bit, add a p:dtd-validate step along the lines we discussed, add globbing, and possibly add the filtering stuff I described. 14:33:46 No one objects to norm doing more work. 14:35:31 ACTION: Norm to make p:load more explicitly like http-request, perhaps by adding a dtd-validate step and describing a pipeline that can use it. He'll also add globbing for file: URIs and perhaps the filtering stuff we discussed. 14:39:36 ACTION: Norm to make sure that the case of casting multipart to single part is covered; Alex believes that binaries are base64 encoded in multipart documents (so that the boundary isn't borked) 14:41:35 Topic: semantics of p:cast-content-type, issue #116 14:41:41 ->https://github.com/xproc/specification/issues/116 14:42:21 -> http://www.w3.org/TR/xproc20-steps/#c.cast-content-type 14:45:48 Alex: There are two possible expectations: what the step currently says, and that the server lied and I want to parse it as XML. 14:46:22 Norm: So I think what you want is a step that just attempts to parse it. 14:46:48 Alex: There's the thing and the representation of the resource and which do we mean. 14:48:21 Norm: So we want p:cast-content-type to attempt to parse, not make a base64 encoded anything. 14:48:29 ...We have (at least proposed) steps for base64 encoding/decoding. 14:49:31 Alex: If you take octet stream and cast to image, maybe that will work, maybe it won't, it's going to be implementation-defined or -dependent. 14:50:06 Norm: So should this step take parameters? 14:51:22 Alex: It would be nice not to have steps that overlap in strange ways. 14:51:38 quote/unquote ? 14:51:39 Norm: So p:cast-content-type should try to do everything. Including base64 encode and decode. 14:59:00 Alex: I think the word "cast" is misleading. 14:59:22 ...We're trying to minimally change the content type and that's not the same as the concept of "casting". Casting implies some sort of type system and we just don't have that. 15:00:06 ...Getting from thing it was labeled to thing we want it to be should be something else. 15:00:38 Norm: Unfortunately, we've run out of time. 15:00:56 Topic: Any other business? 15:01:10 Adjourned. 15:01:22 rrsagent, set logs world visible 15:01:25 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:01:25 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/25-xproc-minutes.html Norm 16:28:05 Zakim has left #xproc