20:56:28 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #indie-ui
20:56:28 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/18-indie-ui-irc
20:56:30 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
20:56:30 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #indie-ui
20:56:32 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be INDIE
20:56:33 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_Indie()5:00PM scheduled to start in 4 minutes
20:56:33 <trackbot> Meeting: Independent User Interface Task Force Teleconference
20:56:33 <trackbot> Date: 18 March 2015
20:56:37 <janina> zakim, agenda?
20:56:37 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
20:56:43 <janina> Chair:  Janina_Sajka
20:56:43 <janina> agenda+ preview agenda with items from two minutes
20:56:43 <janina> agenda+ WBS on IndieUI Rechartering https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/54997/201503_planning/
20:56:46 <janina> agenda+ Future of the IndieUI WG & TF -- Janina
20:56:49 <janina> agenda+ Schema.org Mappings -- Rich & Andy [See Below]
20:56:51 <janina> agenda+ Checkin with Web Apps' Editing TF [See below]
20:56:54 <janina> agenda+ Editors' Reports
20:56:56 <janina> agenda+ User Context Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/3
20:56:59 <janina> agenda+ Events Issues & Actions https://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/products/2
20:57:02 <janina> agenda+  Other Business
20:57:05 <janina> agenda+ Be Done
20:57:13 <janina>  zakim, call janina-mobile
20:57:13 <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
20:57:14 <Zakim> WAI_Indie()5:00PM has now started
20:57:15 <Zakim> +Janina
20:57:57 <janina> zakim, who's here?
20:57:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see Janina
20:57:59 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, kurosawa, andy, richardschwerdtfeger, MichaelC, MarkS, janina, hober, joanie, koji, trackbot
20:59:25 <Zakim> +??P0
20:59:32 <kurosawa> kurosawa has joined #indie-ui
20:59:41 <janina> zakim, unmute me
20:59:41 <Zakim> Janina was not muted, janina
20:59:59 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
21:00:29 <Zakim> +??P2
21:00:31 <Zakim> +Joanmarie_Diggs
21:00:50 <Zakim> +Katie
21:01:13 <Zakim> +??P4
21:01:15 <Zakim> + +1.609.759.aaaa
21:01:46 <MichaelC> zakim, aaaa is Jason_White
21:01:46 <Zakim> +Jason_White; got it
21:02:06 <jcraig> jcraig has joined #indie-ui
21:02:09 <MichaelC> zakim, ??P4 is Andy_Heath
21:02:09 <Zakim> +Andy_Heath; got it
21:02:12 <MichaelC> zakim, mute andy
21:02:12 <Zakim> Andy_Heath should now be muted
21:02:29 <MichaelC> zakim, who is on the phone?
21:02:29 <Zakim> On the phone I see Janina, ??P0, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Michael_Cooper, Joanmarie_Diggs, Katie, Jason_White, Andy_Heath (muted)
21:02:32 <Zakim> +[Apple]
21:02:37 <kurosawa> zakim, ??P0 is me
21:02:37 <Zakim> +kurosawa; got it
21:02:39 <jcraig> Zakim, Apple is jcraig
21:02:39 <Zakim> +jcraig; got it
21:03:14 <MichaelC> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-indie-ui/2015Mar/0007.html
21:03:19 <janina> zakim, mute me
21:03:19 <Zakim> Janina should now be muted
21:03:30 <jcraig> Zakim, choose a victim
21:03:30 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose kurosawa
21:03:41 <jcraig> Zakim, choose a victi,
21:03:41 <Zakim> I don't understand 'choose a victi,', jcraig
21:03:48 <jcraig> Zakim, choose a vicitm
21:03:48 <Zakim> I don't understand 'choose a vicitm', jcraig
21:03:57 <MichaelC> scribe: MichaelC
21:04:22 <janina> zakim, unmute me
21:04:22 <Zakim> Janina should no longer be muted
21:04:31 <MichaelC> zakim, next item
21:04:31 <Zakim> agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
21:04:34 <janina> zakim, take up item 1
21:04:34 <Zakim> agendum 1. "preview agenda with items from two minutes" taken up [from janina]
21:04:51 <MichaelC> nothing
21:04:52 <janina> zakim, close this item
21:04:52 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
21:04:53 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
21:04:53 <Zakim> 2. WBS on IndieUI Rechartering https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/54997/201503_planning/ [from janina]
21:05:02 <janina> zakim, next item
21:05:02 <Zakim> agendum 2. "WBS on IndieUI Rechartering https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/54997/201503_planning/" taken up [from janina]
21:05:27 <andy> how can I unmute me
21:05:32 <MichaelC> s/nothing/jw: favorable comments at CSUN towards personalization; rs: general industry favor
21:05:57 <andy> +Andy
21:06:07 <andy> q+Andy
21:06:46 <MichaelC> == on previous topic ==
21:06:52 <MichaelC> rs: greater focus on cognitive and learning
21:07:12 <MichaelC> now that issues surfacing, excitement
21:07:21 <MichaelC> will have collisions between needs of different users
21:07:27 <MichaelC> personalization is the only way to resolve
21:07:36 <MichaelC> can´t have 1-size-fits-all solutions
21:07:44 <MichaelC> this is not new in the Mobile space
21:08:28 <MichaelC> khs: 503 regulation from Labor will require federal contractors to have 7% PWD
21:08:51 <MichaelC> depends on self identification, which depends on no negative repercussions
21:08:51 <MichaelC> ack and
21:09:24 <MichaelC> ah: asked to write paper on IndieUI and future of Web for a spanish journal
21:09:28 <MichaelC> anybody want to join?
21:09:39 <MichaelC> js: would offer feedback
21:09:44 <MichaelC> jgw: same
21:10:10 <MichaelC> ah: could use help writing the Event model half
21:11:46 <MichaelC> js: also note, need to sort out JGW GitHub access
21:12:24 <MichaelC> zakim, take up item 2
21:12:24 <Zakim> agendum 2. "WBS on IndieUI Rechartering https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/54997/201503_planning/" taken up [from janina]
21:12:35 <MichaelC> == now here for reals ==
21:13:45 <andy> q+
21:15:11 <MichaelC> js: please complete the survey
21:15:26 <janina> zakim, next item
21:15:26 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, janina
21:15:29 <MichaelC> q?
21:15:32 <MichaelC> ack a
21:15:36 <janina> zakim, close this item
21:15:36 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
21:15:37 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
21:15:37 <Zakim> 3. Future of the IndieUI WG & TF -- Janina [from janina]
21:15:37 <andy> q-
21:15:42 <janina> zakim, next item
21:15:42 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Future of the IndieUI WG & TF -- Janina" taken up [from janina]
21:15:58 <MichaelC> js: IndieUI WG charter expires 30 April
21:16:23 <MichaelC> management has changed procedure and won´t issue extensions unless super-good reason
21:16:43 <MichaelC> if this isn´t sorted by the time of expiry, we can´t publish, and people can´t join
21:16:43 <MichaelC> the survey above explores options
21:17:03 <MichaelC> including moving portions of our specs to other places
21:17:15 <MichaelC> seems general support for that
21:17:31 <MichaelC> but less clear what we should do with the portions not taken up by other groups
21:18:03 <jcraig> q+
21:18:18 <MichaelC> we also might ask how other groups would prioritize things
21:18:37 <MichaelC> maybe some work would get taken up quickly but other slowly, when we would want it to go more quickly
21:19:26 <MichaelC> ack j
21:19:31 <richardschwerdtfeger> q?
21:19:32 <janina> q?
21:19:59 <MichaelC> jc: IndieUI was first proposed as part of HTML or CSS or WebApps
21:20:20 <MichaelC> all the drafts specifically mentioned we hoped the features would be picked up by those specs
21:20:44 <richardschwerdtfeger> q+
21:20:59 <MichaelC> in particular some media features fit well with CSS media
21:21:15 <MichaelC> one reason User Context was separate because there is no security model for CSS media features
21:21:25 <janina> ack r
21:21:30 <MichaelC> CSS WG has since identified that´s something they need to work on
21:21:38 <MichaelC> so I think it desirable to work on there
21:21:50 <MichaelC> rs: would like a TF between PF and CSS to deliver the features
21:21:59 <MichaelC> don´t care specifics of e.g., media queries
21:22:07 <MichaelC> but do want to make sure features will get taken up
21:22:16 <MichaelC> e.g., some schema.org features haven´t yet been implemented
21:22:26 <MichaelC> what else has CSS picked up?
21:22:32 <MichaelC> jc: doesn´t happen overnight
21:22:35 <Zakim> -Janina
21:22:38 <janina> I've lost audio
21:22:43 <MichaelC> font size in queue
21:22:44 <janina> zakim, drop janina
21:22:44 <Zakim> sorry, janina, I do not see a party named 'janina'
21:22:54 <janina> zakim, call janina-mobile
21:22:54 <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
21:22:55 <Zakim> +Janina
21:23:11 <MichaelC> user @@
21:23:15 <MichaelC> contrast settings
21:23:21 <MichaelC> zakim, drop janina
21:23:21 <Zakim> Janina is being disconnected
21:23:23 <Zakim> -Janina
21:23:35 <janina> Working on it
21:23:53 <MichaelC> user color
21:23:59 <MichaelC> as media feature and css variable
21:24:09 <MichaelC> so all the first section until subtitle stuff
21:24:27 <MichaelC> subtitle-language key is first that doesn´t fit in
21:24:38 <MichaelC> that should be a javascript API, not a CSS media feature
21:24:50 <MichaelC> but some others about color and audio description are on the table
21:24:54 <MichaelC> rs: so it´s all over the place
21:25:00 <MichaelC> can´t point to a single place
21:26:18 <MichaelC> jc: most will fit into CSS
21:26:24 <MichaelC> but critical waiting on security model
21:26:43 <MichaelC> rs: we need a WAI task force to coordinate getting these features with other groups
21:26:44 <Zakim> +Janina
21:26:55 <MichaelC> jc: TF instead of just email list?
21:27:05 <MichaelC> rs: need to coordinate across multiple entities
21:27:26 <MichaelC> jc: we should work on CSS stuff within CSS WG
21:27:42 <MichaelC> the security model is the only reason we needed a separate spec
21:28:28 <MichaelC> rs: take flexbox - there has been a long discussion in the WG about an approach that might not work there
21:28:42 <janina> q?
21:28:43 <MichaelC> we need something that won´t cost lots of cycles
21:28:54 <MichaelC> jc: everybody has other responsibilities
21:29:02 <MichaelC> having a task force to talk about making it happen doesn´t make it happen
21:29:11 <MichaelC> need dedicated individuals involved in the work
21:29:15 <MichaelC> rs: but need coordination
21:29:22 <MichaelC> more than just writing spec text
21:29:26 <MichaelC> work with product teams
21:29:36 <MichaelC> coord across areas of interest
21:29:55 <MichaelC> so for instance, PF and SVG joint task force is leading to things happening
21:30:11 <MichaelC> jc: monochrome CSS existed a long time but wasn´t implemented until recently
21:30:22 <MichaelC> but still, seeing the progress
21:30:54 <MichaelC> this tied to the major operating systems
21:31:07 <MichaelC> it took having this within the CSS WG to make it happen
21:31:21 <MichaelC> I would rather focus my efforts there where it´s working
21:31:28 <MichaelC> rather than spend energy where it isn´t
21:31:49 <MichaelC> rs: worried about a piecemeal approach to features
21:31:51 <MichaelC> want a more strategic plan
21:31:58 <MichaelC> it takes more than just people in the WGs
21:32:06 <MichaelC> need people working on examples
21:32:09 <MichaelC> putting in toolkits
21:32:17 <MichaelC> demonstrating to UA vendors that people will use it
21:32:23 <MichaelC> so need a TF
21:32:31 <janina> q?
21:32:39 <MichaelC> part of the TF is to make sure there are people are in those groups
21:32:40 <Zakim> -Jason_White
21:32:46 <MichaelC> don´t think we need our own group, just the TF for coordination
21:33:03 <MichaelC> js: @@
21:33:17 <richardschwerdtfeger> q+
21:33:19 <MichaelC> requires getting spec written and done in a manner we can promote
21:33:59 <MichaelC> rs: we could have a focus group work on e.g., epub
21:34:06 <MichaelC> but if they then have to work with CSS...
21:34:19 <MichaelC> we´re broadening the points we have to get consensus from
21:34:43 <MichaelC> so do we have to join the CSS WG? form sub-teams?
21:34:43 <MichaelC> don´t want to wait 3 - 4 years
21:34:44 <MichaelC> jc: never done a CSS WG call
21:34:50 <MichaelC> met them at TPAC
21:34:54 <MichaelC> and worked via email
21:35:01 <MichaelC> balance between persistence and providing a good solution
21:35:11 <MichaelC> not being so persistent you nag and get sidelined
21:35:21 <MichaelC> rs: what if you´re willing to write that portion of the spec?
21:35:28 <MichaelC> jc: their editors have been doing it
21:35:38 <MichaelC> I didn´t write spec language, but gave substantial details
21:35:52 <MichaelC> their editors worked in
21:36:01 <janina> q?
21:36:16 <MichaelC> rs: so CSS limits editors?
21:36:21 <MichaelC> jc: I didn´t ask for editor status
21:36:27 <MichaelC> don´t have time
21:36:44 <MichaelC> and have been able to get my feature requests attended by the current set of editors
21:36:46 <MichaelC> ack r
21:37:12 <janina> ack r
21:37:16 <janina> zakim, next item
21:37:16 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Schema.org Mappings -- Rich & Andy" taken up [from See Below]
21:37:24 <MichaelC> js: this discussion underlines the importance of completing the WBS
21:37:27 <MichaelC> ===
21:37:30 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1pb92piOlud5sXQadXYnbmtp9LCut26gv8ku-qqZTwec/edit#gid=0
21:38:00 <MichaelC> you all know what schema.org is right?
21:38:04 <MichaelC> s/you/rs: you/
21:38:14 <MichaelC> we want to provide preferences that map to schema.org metadata
21:38:17 <MichaelC> could use for search
21:38:43 <MichaelC> harmonize vocabulary for determining content with that used by search engine providers
21:38:56 <MichaelC> have mapped preference data to this
21:39:23 <MichaelC> basically we want interoperable content that supports AAPI
21:39:37 <janina> zakim, mute me
21:39:37 <Zakim> Janina should now be muted
21:40:10 <MichaelC> interoperability settings category shows how this is achieved
21:40:25 <MichaelC> don´t have a clear answer on whether this should also drive search
21:40:34 <janina> zakim, unmute me
21:40:34 <Zakim> Janina should no longer be muted
21:40:49 <MichaelC> ARIA for example can be used for more than just screen readers
21:40:51 <MichaelC> voice input
21:40:53 <MichaelC> search engines
21:41:11 <MichaelC> these values came out of schema.org
21:41:32 <MichaelC> js: in early Feb we agreed we want search
21:41:58 <MichaelC> rs: a platform could easily provide this to application
21:42:08 <MichaelC> have not decided whether it should fall under security model
21:42:16 <MichaelC> should it be user-accessibility-api?
21:42:33 <MichaelC> khs: the schema.org setting?
21:42:50 <MichaelC> rs: yes - i.e., only provide to a site if security model permits
21:43:11 <MichaelC> js: some media features are exposed by default because no concerns about PII
21:43:23 <MichaelC> but things about AT use are too personal to expose by default
21:43:43 <MichaelC> subtitles is in between, so needs case by case setting
21:43:52 <MichaelC> rs: think anything with user- controlled by security features?
21:43:55 <MichaelC> jc: not necessarily
21:44:04 <MichaelC> is to differentiate from author-provided settings
21:45:03 <MichaelC> rs: anyways, should it go under a security model?
21:45:05 <MichaelC> ah: yes
21:45:51 <Zakim> + +1.609.906.aabb
21:46:07 <janina> zakim, aabb is Jason_White
21:46:07 <Zakim> +Jason_White; got it
21:48:02 <MichaelC> rs: should put user- prefix?
21:48:09 <MichaelC> jc: a lot won´t understand what that means
21:48:24 <MichaelC> even if schema.org defined a certain way, may not map in the same way to CSS
21:48:27 <MichaelC> but that´s ok
21:48:43 <MichaelC> rs: as long as mapping exists, ok with name change
21:49:26 <MichaelC> so change name, or note need better name?
21:50:23 <jcraig> afk
21:51:11 <jcraig> back
21:52:12 <Zakim> -Jason_White
21:52:59 <Zakim> +Jason_White
21:53:00 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://www.w3.org/wiki/WebSchemas/Accessibility#accessibilityFeature_in_detail
21:53:12 <richardschwerdtfeger>     flashing
21:53:13 <richardschwerdtfeger>     noFlashingHazard
21:53:14 <richardschwerdtfeger>     motionSimulation
21:53:16 <richardschwerdtfeger>     noMotionSimulationHazard
21:53:17 <richardschwerdtfeger>     sound
21:53:17 <richardschwerdtfeger>     noSoundHazard
21:59:33 <janina> zakim, unmute me
21:59:33 <Zakim> Janina was not muted, janina
21:59:53 <jcraig> ACTION-92
21:59:53 <trackbot> ACTION-92 -- James Craig to Reference http://www.webaxe.org/vestibular-issues-parallax-design/ as justification for reduce motion setting -- due 2014-09-28 -- OPEN
21:59:53 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/IndieUI/track/actions/92
22:00:18 <jcraig> iOS API: UIKIT_EXTERN BOOL UIAccessibilityIsReduceMotionEnabled() NS_AVAILABLE_IOS(8_0);
22:00:18 <jcraig> UIKIT_EXTERN NSString *const UIAccessibilityReduceMotionStatusDidChangeNotification NS_AVAILABLE_IOS(8_0);
22:00:35 <jcraig> proposed to CSS as "prefers-reduced-motion"
22:02:12 <Zakim> -Katie
22:02:14 <Zakim> -Rich_Schwerdtfeger
22:02:14 <Zakim> -jcraig
22:02:15 <Zakim> -Joanmarie_Diggs
22:02:17 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
22:02:18 <Zakim> -Jason_White
22:02:20 <Zakim> -Andy_Heath
22:02:26 <Zakim> -kurosawa
22:02:30 <janina> zakim, drop janina
22:02:30 <Zakim> Janina is being disconnected
22:02:31 <Zakim> WAI_Indie()5:00PM has ended
22:02:31 <Zakim> Attendees were Janina, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Joanmarie_Diggs, Michael_Cooper, Katie, +1.609.759.aaaa, Jason_White, Andy_Heath, kurosawa, jcraig, +1.609.906.aabb
22:02:33 <MichaelC> rrsagent, make minutes
22:02:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/18-indie-ui-minutes.html MichaelC
22:03:51 <MichaelC> zakim, bye
22:03:51 <Zakim> Zakim has left #indie-ui
22:03:53 <MichaelC> rrsagent, bye
22:03:53 <RRSAgent> I see no action items