14:03:28 RRSAgent has joined #tt 14:03:28 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/12-tt-irc 14:03:30 RRSAgent, make logs public 14:03:30 Zakim has joined #tt 14:03:32 Zakim, this will be TTML 14:03:32 ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start 3 minutes ago 14:03:33 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 14:03:33 Date: 12 March 2015 14:04:52 zakim, who is on the phone? 14:04:52 SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has not yet started, nigel 14:04:53 On IRC I see RRSAgent, nigel, pal, mike, tmichel, trackbot 14:05:22 Present: mike, pal, tmichel, nigel 14:05:38 Regrets: glenn, Andreas, Frans, jdsmith 14:05:41 chair: nigel 14:05:44 scribe: nigel 14:06:28 Topic: This Meeting 14:07:49 nigel: I think given those present we can best cover the SMPTE liaison, IMSC 1 test suite and the F2F agenda 14:08:03 tmichel: We also need to mention the Sapporo TPAC opportunity for a F2F 14:08:21 group: no other AOB 14:08:35 Topic: Action Items 14:08:46 action-378? 14:08:47 action-378 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Draft smpte request including dispositions from action-369 and backgroundcolor initial value question -- due 2015-03-05 -- OPEN 14:08:47 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/378 14:09:04 pal: I've drafted this and sent it round. 14:09:45 mdolan: The initial values for the root container were neither defined nor specified as 14:09:56 ... implementation dependent. So SMPTE went about setting initial values. It's unfortunate 14:10:04 ... that they're not the same as what's in TTML1SE. 14:10:20 ... Timing wise, SMPTE 2052 was originally drafted before TTML1 was published as a Rec. 14:10:29 ... I don't recall what the reasoning was, but that's the history. 14:10:53 ... More importantly, IMSC 1 came about from a request from DECE, based on TTML1 plus 14:11:05 ... some constrained extensions from SMPTE. SMPTE also added for the image handling 14:11:17 ... to be added to TTML2 and IMSC 1. So I think there could be a misunderstanding that either 14:11:39 ... SMPTE or DECE wanted IMSC 1 to match identically. That may not have been the intent. 14:12:25 nigel: Are you saying that we could just make the IMSC 1 initial values the same as TTML1 and be done with it. 14:13:00 mdolan: That would be my proposal, to remove the initial values text from IMSC 1. 14:13:22 ... I'd like to validate this back with DECE and report back next week. 14:13:35 nigel: Does this mean we don't need to bother sending this to SMPTE? 14:13:51 mdolan: Depending on the answer, yes. It may be better to go to DECE because SMPTE 14:14:03 ... would be going back 10 years and the history is probably not well remembered, and is complex. 14:14:11 ... Even if we got an answer it may not be helpful. 14:14:52 mdolan: I propose that I'll investigate and get back and we may need to ask DECE, or nobody. 14:15:06 pal: I like that plan, because I've certainly heard that not aligning with TTML1 is a bad idea. 14:15:17 nigel: +1 14:15:49 nigel: I'll leave action-378 open in that case. 14:15:58 mdolan: If I get an answer back sooner I'll post it to the reflector. 14:16:15 Topic: F2F 14:17:10 nigel: There's been some offlist discussion. It's looking likely that there'll be an agenda item 14:17:21 ... to talk about the plan for creating the TTML<-->WebVTT mapping document, rather than 14:17:25 ... to talk about the substance of it. 14:17:48 ... It's good news that there's enthusiasm for it, and we need to open that up to the right 14:17:50 ... community. 14:18:02 pal: One quick request: I may not be able to be there all day Friday, so I'd appreciate it if 14:18:14 ... we can cover IMSC 1 topics on the Thursday and TTML2 also. 14:18:32 https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/F2F-april-2015 14:18:43 nigel: Since last week Courtney has added her name to the attendees. 14:19:07 ... She's likely to be interested in VTT topics and only be there on the Thursday too. 14:19:38 nigel: Given that we're not talking about substance with the mapping, but planning, it should 14:19:43 ... be maximum 30 minutes. 14:20:29 nigel: I'm also wondering if we should explore inviting the TTCG to that agenda item, since 14:20:34 ... they have a lot of expertise. 14:21:26 s/e./e in WebVTT. 14:23:35 pal: Thanks for the prompt - I've just added my name to the attendee list. 14:24:01 nigel: Thierry, do you want to mention some details about Sapporo? 14:24:20 tmichel: It's worth noting the dates of TPAC, which will be in Sapporo, Japan at the end of October. 14:24:35 ... We've been asked if we plan to meet there. The question is do we want to meet or not? 14:24:54 nigel: We have a deadline for responding to that survey too. 14:25:29 ... The dates of TPAC are 26-30 October 2015. 14:25:43 ... I need to respond on the questionnaire by 30th April. 14:26:19 tmichel: If we plan to meet, the earlier we plan it the better choice of dates we will have 14:26:21 ... available. 14:27:11 Topic: IMSC 1 Test Suite 14:27:24 nigel: I eventually managed to complete my promised analysis and send it round. 14:27:39 nigel: Pierre, you responded on the reflector that there were some points you thought we should discuss. 14:28:15 pal: Thank you nigel for putting that report together. I concentrated on the ones with No 14:28:21 ... under 'In Test suite?' 14:28:38 ... For the first row I created a test. 14:28:55 ... For the second one, I'm not sure how a test can be written. You'd probably offer a TTML 14:29:08 ... file and a video file and identify that it is not a legal combination but the spec does not 14:29:30 ... say what processor behaviour is in that case. Also this made me look at how TTML1SE 14:29:44 ... has been modified to say how to generate media time from timing expressions, and I'm 14:30:01 ... not even sure this is really needed. I've been casually asking DECE folks about this. 14:30:13 ... So I suggest doing nothing right now - there might be a suggestion to remove that clause. 14:30:50 nigel: So we may need to signal that this statement is 'at risk'? 14:30:58 pal: Give me a week - that could be one outcome. 14:31:49 pal: The fourth row in the table (the third red one) is something I'd like glenn's thoughts on. 14:32:04 ... TTML1SE has some clear text on rounding and positioning. In the DECE member submission 14:32:16 ... this text was there to try to create consistency across implementations for aligning 14:32:28 ... regions on the pixel grid. That was specific text about pixel position on related video. 14:32:43 ... In the scope of DECE that's a clearly defined thing. In TTML1SE there's no mention of 14:32:57 ... pixels - it says that if a value of extent is not available to the implementation then what 14:33:11 ... the fallback is. I'm not sure what the interaction is between the IMSC 1 statement and that 14:33:27 ... in TTML1SE. It needs more study. I'll ask at DECE there too. Again it might be a situation 14:33:35 ... where we remove this text or add a note or do some other change. 14:34:19 pal: That's my report. 14:34:46 nigel: There are also two actions to get/generate PNGs. 14:34:57 pal: They're already linked in via the EBU docs. 14:35:14 nigel: Are they clear enough to use as test criteria? 14:35:31 pal: I think there is enough precision there already. The EBU spec is pretty clear in what 14:35:35 ... the output should look like. 14:36:09 need to drop. cheers until next week 14:36:20 nigel: I think it's not clear that the images in the EBU specs are generated by exactly these 14:36:33 ... test case TTML documents. 14:37:04 Action: nigel Obtain PNG images for #linePadding and #multiRowAlign test cases. 14:37:04 Created ACTION-379 - Obtain png images for #linepadding and #multirowalign test cases. [on Nigel Megitt - due 2015-03-19]. 14:37:30 nigel: I haven't seen any other comments on the tests. Have you? 14:37:32 pal: No. 14:38:08 pal: I think we're good, so I'll report hopefully next week on those two items. 14:41:38 Present+ dsinger 14:42:45 nigel: I was earlier talking about inviting the CG for an agenda item at the F2F to talk about the TTML <--> WebVTT mapping. 14:43:17 dsinger: Sure, that's a good idea. I'll send an email to the CG saying that the TTWG invites them to join at the F2F for that. 14:43:41 nigel: Thanks. We're out of agenda for the folk present so I'll adjourn now. See you next week. Thanks all. [adjourns meeting] 14:43:47 rrsagent, make logs public 14:43:50 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:43:50 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/12-tt-minutes.html nigel 14:45:39 s/be done with it./be done with it? 14:47:45 i/nigel: I was earlier/dsinger joins the call 14:47:48 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:47:48 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/12-tt-minutes.html nigel 14:48:25 ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 14:48:26 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:48:26 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/12-tt-minutes.html nigel 14:50:36 nigel has changed the topic to: Timed Text Working Group: Next meeting 2015-03-19 1400 UTC 16:26:36 Zakim has left #tt 17:16:44 nigel has joined #tt