See also: IRC log
<Ioannis_Athanasiadis> Good day!
<Ioannis_Athanasiadis> Seems that the GotoMeeting link for this morning is wrond.
<phila> Yes, Ed is looking into it
<Ioannis_Athanasiadis> Thx :)
<phila> scribe: phila
kerry: Opens the meeting, runs through the agenda
<jtandy> http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/F2f_Barcelona
<jtandy> scribenick: jtandy
<scribe> scribe: Jeremy Tandy
agenda for today: http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/F2f_Barcelona
kerry: main job for today is to work through the use cases
<phila> Use Cases
kerry: we're going to organise
those use cases and define the requirements
... each use case will be set to the deliverables for the
WG
... we finish the meeting with lightning talks
<Alejandro_and_Armin> Same problem with pin code
kerry: introducing the use case editors; Frans K and Alejandro_and_Armin
<Rachel> ditto, problem with access code
phila: does anyone object (in the room) to me taking a picture and tweeting it
(no objections)
kerry: THE MEETING IS OPENED!
[ed returns ... hopefully the goto meeting is fixed?]
kerry: Welcome ... I'm Kerry,
co-chair, work for CSIRO in Canberra
... introducing Ed Parsons, fellow co-chair, works for Google
in London
... lots of people here - some new faces
<Alejandro_and_Armin> the go to meeting access code is invalid
kerry: lets do some other introductions
<Alejandro_and_Armin> 353923093
[going around the room here ... suggesting that if people want to say who they are - type into the IRC]
scribe: W3C staff is phila; OGC staff is IngoSimonis
<phila> phila: Notes there are 36 people in the room, only 20 on IRC, not all of whom are in the room. We need to fix this
kerry: thanks - now we've got to get to work
phila: if you're not on IRC, you're not on the meeting ... please join [of course if you're not on - you can't read this!]
eparsons: goto meeting is now working
kerry: will now introduce the use
case chairs
... Frans (sitting in the corner)
... Alejandro_and_Armin (somewhere in the ether)
<eparsons> Anyone having trouble with Goto Meeting ?
<AZ> Still the same "access code not valid" message
kerry: the main job for today is
to organise the use cases into groups / categories & define
the requirements from those use cases
... let's kick off
<Alejandro_and_Armin> same problem that AZ with gotomeeting via skype
kerry: we're going to split into subgroups at some point this morning ...
<eparsons> Use this gotomeeting id https://www4.gotomeeting.com/join/182870253
<AZ> BTW, AZ is Antoine Zimmermann
kerry: we have a few ways to
organise ... by deliverable (that would make 4 groups)
... alternative to organise by theme
... any ideas?
[discussion - where are we going to put the subgroups]
<Alejandro_and_Armin> ok, we are connected!
<Alejandro_and_Armin> thanks, Ed!
kerry: we could split up by
themes ... e.g. IoT, Earth observation,
... socially construed notions of place
... discovery catalogue type use cases
... probably easiest to organise by deliverables
Frans: could allow the sub-groups to self organise?
kerry: the deliverables
are:
... 1) (spatial) best practice
... 2) Time
... 3) SSN (semantic sensor network)
... 4) Coverage
[getting straw poll]
jtandy: let's merge SSN and Coverage groups
kerry: OK
chrislittle: not everyone voted
kerry: each sub-group will need to scribe
<phila> If you want to see what the IRC looks like as minutes, see http://www.w3.org/2015/03/11-sdw-minutes.html
phila: you can scribe on paper or
electronic form ... you don't necessarily need to use IRC
... PLEASE DON'T USE A PROPRIETARY FORMAT
... when you upload your notes
[discussion - local logistics]
kerry: any questions before we break up
xavier: some of the UC's are very
application specific
... some are technology centric
... how should we proceed?
kerry: see the scope questions
http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Scope_questions_and_Requirements
... and the charter http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/charter
eparsons: the four scoping
questions are:
... 1) Is the use case specifically about Spatial data on the
Web?
... we had a lot of discussions about SPATIAL!
... 2) is the use case including data published, reused, and
accessible via Web technologies?
... 3) Has a use case a description that can lead to a testable
requirement?
... 4) public vs private web
... all the requirements need to be hung on the use cases ...
our requirements need to be grounded in reality
peterbauman: please can we have W3C savvy folks in each group - because most of us are OGC folks?
kerry: don't think we need this ... most important thing is to SCRIBE
eparsons: ditto
kerry: work to get consensus ...
but we're not operating a formal decision making process today;
discuss, be inclusive
... [notes the PATENT RULE statement]
... talk to IngoSimonis if you've got concerns
<eparsons> Thanks AZ
phila: W3C and OGC have a
slightly different method of dealing with IPR ...
... but both horrible processes mean that the standards are
royalty free
<phila> The OGC Patent Call
phila: BTW - the standards will be joint badged
kerry: who's going to lead the
groups
... best practice ... eparsons
... time ... stefanstrobel
... SSN & Coverage ... [Kerry gets self nominated]
jtandy: when to reconvene back into plenary
kerry: let's get back to do sanity check / share discussions at 12:45 ... just before lunch
cperey: I'll take an action to figure out if the big room will be ready
kerry: we'll meet in the big room at 12:45 (assuming all ok)
eparsons: at Google's great
expense I've brought post-it notes ...
... please don't write on the walls :-)
<phila> Meeting breaks into sub groups
<AZ> tables and chairs moving around...
<eparsons> All, Goto Meeting shutting down now until presentations at 3pm CET
<Alejandro_and_Armin> ok, is there a way to join the SSN group remotely?
<Alejandro_and_Armin> thanks!
<Alejandro_and_Armin> my skype id is ale21385
<phila> Charter
<phila> scribe: phila
<scribe> scribeNick: phila
jtandy: Suggests to triage the use cases and classify them into those that are relevant to SSN and Coverage
Much messing with equipment
kerry: Introduces
Alejandro_and_Armin who have joined via Skype
... Talks through the charter
... SSN was created in W3C space but isn't a formal
standard.
... widely used
... being asked for help with encoding the data so that might
be what this WG does (which will create a formal standard)
-> http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/charter Charter
<jtandy> http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/charter
kerry: Concept is coverage over
space. Gridded data over space, how you might link to other
data
... WaterML2 is mentioned to be able to handle time at a
specific point in space
... RDF Data Cube http://www.w3.org/TR/vocab-data-cube/
PeterBauman: OGC already has well
defined defn of coverage
... distinction between discrete and continuous
understood
... consensus should be based on existing defn of the word
<jtandy> (the charter says: "expressing discrete coverage data conformant to the ISO 19123 abstract model")
jtandy: Points to wording in
charter to help clarify what is and isn't in scope
... I suggest we look at the use cases we have.
pebau Distinction between the coverage and the services that operate on it
JohnHerring: Do you know the
difference between discrete and continuous
... all data is discrete at its core
... continuous are interpolated, discrete is not
pebau If you're working on an image then you do have pixels. Coverage describes both in a uniform way
kerry: My understanding is that we're working on discrete, not interpolating
pebau Gives an example where interpolation doesn't make sense
JohnHerring: There's no interpolation between and oak and a pine
jtandy: In a gridded daatset - in meteo, we represent each individual point as you need to know when to interpolate and when not to
pebau If it's the case that it can be interpolated then it can be seen as continuous but you won't necessarily provide the interpolation method
JohnHerring: We need to know what you're trying to do before we decide
kerry: Yes we need to look at the UCs!
<jtandy> (the interpolation in meteorology is really quite complicated - so if you're going to do interpolation, proceed with caution!)
kerry: Hands the chair to Jeremy
<scribe> chair: jtandy
jtandy: We're trying to pull out
the requirements from each UC. Please read through the first
UC
... starting with
https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Working_Use_Cases#Meteorological_Data_Rescue_Use_Case_.28Best_Practice.2C_Time.2C_SSN.2C_Coverage.29
Jeremy hands out post-it notes to write the reqs on as we'll have the smae reqs multiple times
kerry: I can see multilingual search as a requirement
Phila: this is now 'mdr' https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Working_Use_Cases#mdr
<Alejandro_and_Armin> are we using any google document or something similar?
Ted: Do we have a quality metric?
Discussion leads to some quality and prov reqs
JohnHerring: If the data is
tabular-numeric that may not be stats
... we don't know what the data is
jtandy: These would be reports from a specific station. It's a time series
JohnHerring: One station or multiple stations
jtandy: Each station has its own time series
JohnHerring: So the user might have a consistent set across which she could interpolate
jtandy: It's a continuous
phenomenon so if you know what you're doing you can
interpolate
... And we normally use quite complicated models to do
that
... We have time series records for observations at a point
kerry: WaterML is relevant here then
<stefan> #time The OGC TemporalDWG has already put together a list of useful links wrt time defenitions http://external.opengeospatial.org/twiki_public/TemporalDWG/WebHome#TemporalDWG_Web_Utilities
s/PeterBaumann/pebau/g
Further general discussion about the use case
jtandy: We need to know where the data is related to
pebau: Yes, it must be referenced in space and time
jtandy: Summarises the clusters -
when and where
... on the Web we need to be able to find the info - so
discovery metadata
... need to be able to cite it
... its quality
... handle multi-lingual
... so in terms of coverage, we're looking at metadata of
it
kerry: Need to be able to insert it in a catalogue
Sylvain_Grellet_BRGM: So she's processing the data?
kerry: No, she's just publishing what she finds
<Alejandro_and_Armin> +q on adding requirements to spreadsheet
-> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Working_Use_Cases#hzv Next USe case
<scribe> chair: kerry
jtandy: Summarises his use
case
... based on coastal habitat zones
<Zakim> Alejandro_and_Armin, you wanted to comment on adding requirements to spreadsheet
Looking at https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Working_Use_Cases#hzv
jtandy: We don't want to describe
the zone itself, we need line of sight to the info that someone
used to designate the protected zone
... so it's really about provenance
... we have a bunch of complex data that may be used
... side scan sonar can be many GB
... Cameras towed behind a boat to show the different plants
and fish etc
... person will record what type of fish is seen where
JohnHerring: So we're talking
about GeoReferenced video
... Frame by frame georef
jtandy: So all the metadata is in
the observation model. Where and when the pic was taken
... The interesting thing for me is, a link to a big side scan
sonar dataset - that's too much
... we need to access a small part of the data
... Politicians need to know whether the fish was seen in or
outside the zone
... but activists will want more detail
... so we need a provenance record like "I used this chunk"
Ted: Is that a subsetting
requirement?
... If I understand the charter correctly - this coverage data
is really big so we need ways to share smaller pieces of
it
... That's a server side requirement?
jtandy: I was thinking about the
citation angle
... they may have had the whole thing
Jeff_Walter: You need to be able
to express that you used array indices 60-80
... for example
pebau: We have subsetting in coverage
Discussion focuses on referencing part of a coverage
<stefan> #time agreed on the necessity to define a harmonized OWL model for time and test it with the provided use cases
jtandy: And you, pebau, said you
wanted to be able to describe it such that someone else can
execute that in future
... I'm going to suggest we break for coffee?
christine: No, 10 mins to go yet
jtandy: There are things in this UC related to BPs and time but we're not looking at those here
JohnHerring: You need to be
careful when you say georeference
... every observation has its own location associated with
it
pebau: raises the issue of CRSs
Sylvain_Grellet_BRGM: raises identifiers
jtandy: We said in the previous
UC that we needed to be able to cite
... and as we want to be able to reference a a specific part of
the data
Sylvain_Grellet_BRGM: We use XML IDs for that
Ted: Suggests it's time for coffee
JohnHerring: Historical data is
consistent but may not be accurate
... there's a lot of metadata needed to be able to repeat the
processing
Discussion dissolves into coffee
BREAK
<Payam> scribe: payam
<scribe> scribenick: payam
<scribe> scribe: payam barnaghi
ManolisKoubarakis: presenting the
next use-case (real-time wildfire monitoring)
... the use-case focuses on satellite imaging and the use of
ssn
... need for metadata: privacy, ...
... metadata about sensors, satellite sensing
JohnHerring: for this use-case: need to know the geometry of sensors that are used
kerry: we are going to work pst geo-rectified data
s post/post
<laurent-oz> FGDC has worked on this http://www.fgdc.gov/standards/projects/FGDC-standards-projects/csdgm_rs_ex/MetadataRemoteSensingExtens.pdf quite some time ago.
<laurent-oz> ... https://www.fgdc.gov/standards/projects/FGDC-standards-projects/csdgm_rs_ex/remote-sensing-metadata
jtandy: this one is a Geo-Reference, geo-rectified data related to a specific case
kerry: this use-case also discusses publication of raster and vector formats
Li Ping: we have a use-case on this topic in OGC testbed no 5
JohnHerring: there are also other projects that search metadata; Australia, NASA, ... helping technologists to find others who work on a simialar use-case; something like a social network
kerry: this will be out of scope- unless we refer to the description of the method
<Alejandro_and_Armin> shouldn't be this use case also tagged as Coverage?
kerry: a requirement can be: mechanisms to link to social media; making processes sharable and discoverable
JohnHerring: getting people to do crowdsourcing stuff
Payam: this can be a part of the provenance data and linking it to social media; e.g. wildfire
Sylvain_Grellet_BRGM: we use social media for linking the data to social data
<Sylvain_Grellet_BRGM> ex : for seismic events
kymw: this can be used as a use-case to save the wildlife; e.g. describing and finding events, ...
Kerry: this is relevant but not in the scope of the current use-case
<danbri> (fwiw "default" is a really tricky idea formally in RDF/OWL)
kymw: fuzzify location information; e.g. to protect endangered species
JohnHerring: how other data that will be linked to the data in this use-case is going to be discovered?
jtandy: providing hooks to opendata
JohnHerring: how make connection to data that can be shared but it is not public data (do we care if it is open or closed)
Kerry: changing "Open" to Web; open data--> Web data
ManolisKoubarakis: discussing the next use-case: Diachronic burnt scar mapping
similar to the previous usecase
JohnHerring: this is a very useful use-case
jtandy: this use-case can be generalised to other domain such precision agriculture
Kerry: next use-case Locating a
thing; this is a bout "time"
... use-case: Harvesting of local search content
... requirment in this use-case: representing spatial and
temporal location
also: date, duration, repeating intervals,
next use-case; "Locating a thing"
this will be covered in best practices
Sylvain_Grellet_BRGM: this use-case has a linkage with the OGC IoT group
next use-case (no 9) : Consuming geographical... is related to best practice
Use-case no 10: Enabling publication, discovery, and analysis of spatiotemporal data ....
<Alejandro_and_Armin> +q on temporal granularity and temporal vagueness
Kerry: easy to implement requirement is discussed - related to best practice
jtandy: Nominal temporal references, imprecise time definition
Kerry: granularity
varying time granularity
Use-case no. 11: publishing geospatial reference data
jtandy: this is related to best practice
Use-case 12: Integration of government and utility data to enable....
JohnHerring: they have smart metering and accessing sensors on the web
Kerry: requirement: using SSN as a common framework for cross domain sensor descriptions
<chaals> use case 9
use-case no.13: Using spatial data from the web in GIS systems during emergency operations
<Zakim> Alejandro_and_Armin, you wanted to comment on temporal granularity and temporal vagueness
Alejandro_and_Armin: data and
Actuation decisions
... whether we are doing for SSN and coverage and time
Kerry: we rely on the use-cases to derive the requirements
back to use-case no.13: Using spatial data from the web in GIS systems during emergency operations
Kerry: exchanging data about incidents
mostly related to best practices
JohnHerring: could be related to
dynamic coverage
... discusses SIM City
jtandy: there is a potential to publish predictive analysis about a fire which could be provided as a coverage dataset;
JohnHerring: cellular automata
use-case 14: publication of air quality data aggregations (SSN, Time)
Alejandro_and_Armin: describes usecase 14
Requirement: aggregated sensor
values
... how to use SSN for temporal aggregations and representing
addresses
s/Jeanb: JeanB: aggregated space and time/aggregated space and time
Sylvain_Grellet_BRGM: there is an EU standard that does this
jtandy: we have to build based on what we have already agreed
Sylvain_Grellet_BRGM: discusses
the EU work related to this
... we use reference vocabularies
<Sylvain_Grellet_BRGM> For UC 14 (AirQuality) : Basically use what has been done in the EU Air Quality Directive (ISO 19100 Feature Model + Observations & Measurements) to generate an ontology
Payam: this is not in the usecases: Requirement: linking an observation to a named event; i.e. abstraction
usecase 15: publication of transport ...
Alejandro_and_Armin: describing
usecase 15
... part of this could be related to best practice idea
... e.g. sensors and mobility; e.g. sensor on the bus and then
having a sensor at a bus stop when the bus is there
Requirement: mobile sensors
Payam: this is related to dynamic semantics; e.g. location value can change and what could be the best practices to update the location data and what mechanism will trigger it.
JeanB: this is more related to sensor but we are more interested in observation
Alejandro_and_Armin: we still use the sensor as a proxy to obtain the location
KymW: in the OGC, we differentiate between moving features and moving sensors
use-case 16: Combining spatial RDF data for integrated querying ...
related to best practices
use-case 17: Dutch base registry
realted to best practice
use-case 18: we skip this (Kerry's use-cases)
<scribe> ACTION: Kerry to review the list of SSN use-case and come up with the requirements [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/03/11-sdw-minutes.html#action01]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-10 - Review the list of ssn use-case and come up with the requirements [on Kerry Taylor - due 2015-03-18].
use-case 19: publishing Cultural Heritage data...
related to best practice
Requirement: to be able to reason over time information (owl reasoners)
jtandy: most owl reasoners do not underestand xsd: time, etc.
pebau: they have worked on this and have a publication
we couldn't see a coverage requirement for use-case 19
Rachel we are discussing your use-case
<Rachel> I am on the chat, can answer questions here
<Rachel> example links: http://earthserver.bgs.ac.uk/clients/3d/glasgow_geology.html
<Rachel> example links: http://earthserver.bgs.ac.uk/clients/3d/tno_lithostrat_rgb_voxel_06_cache.html
invitation: please update the wiki and add the references to existing technolgies, papers, et.c associated with the deliverables
Requirements: Publish 3D
LIDAR
... publish 3D voxel dataset
... Publish 3D spatial models
Rachel: are you happy with these?
<Rachel> yes, thanks!
<JoshLieberman> phila, can't get on to the phone bridge "restricted at this time". Anything I can do?
Yes Phila
<phila> Your place our ours, Payam ?
your place
<JoshLieberman> I've asked Greg Buehler to start gotomeeting in lieu of Simon
bigger room
<phila> Thanks. We're ready when you are
will you have this Phil
do I need to type anything to save the minutes
?
<pebau> looks like we are getting into more and more of the coverage types, as defined in the coverage spec (OGC 09-146r2), which is good: one concept (coverage) to address these means we can achieve a homogeneous service landscape as well
<Alejandro_and_Armin> good night, guys! keep up the good work
<pebau> ...see Web Coverage Service (OGC 09-110r4) and http://external.opengeospatial.org/twiki_public/CoveragesDWG/WebHome
Comment to Rachel: you may consider adding Ten - tetra hydro irregular networks - and pixels
Rachel this comments was from JohnHerring
<phila> Kerry and Frans summarised the discussions held in the two groups (see their minutes)
<phila> *** LUNCH ***
<eparsons> https://www4.gotomeeting.com/join/682717181
<eparsons> https://www4.gotomeeting.com/join/682717181
<jtandy> scribe: Jeremy Tandy
<SimonCox> I just started the GoToMeeting
<jtandy> scribenick: jtandy
<SimonCox> Hi JT
<SimonCox> no
<Zakim> Rachel, you wanted to say publish 3D spatial models requirement should include handling 2D or 3D TIN (=TEN tetrahedral network) and heterogenous resolution grids
<SimonCox> which audio channel should I be using?
<Payam> Simon: call you call me on Skype
<Payam> can?
<Rachel> the publish 3D spatial models requirement should include handling 2D or 3D TIN (=TEN tetrahedral network) and heterogenous resolution grids
<kerry> mattperry, gottomeetning is in a diferent room to irc
<kerry> this room is time, ssn, coverage
<SimonCox> DO I leave the GoToMeeting then, and reassign my mike and speakers to some other device?
<kerry> if you want best practive, gotoemeeting should work
<Payam> yes Simon; can you use Skype
<Payam> ?
<kerry> irc people, thie irc is doing ssn, coverage and time
<kerry> icr peopole, if you want best practice, fo to gotomeeting
<kerry> at 4pm we will all join up, irc and gotomeeting will be in same place
<kerry> 4pm!
use case: Publication of Raw Subsurface Monitoring Data
kerry: just to remind people that we're working to the deliverables in the Charter @ http://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/charter#deliverables
<Payam> Rachel: are you there?
<Rachel> yes, I'm here
kerry: Rachel - can you suggest what your key requirements are for this use case?
<Rachel> best practise on how to publish time series monitoring data so that it can be consumed by clients over the web
<phila> Publication of Raw Subsurface Monitoring Data Use Case
Payam: I think the requirement here is to annotate the streams & link to the observation [...]
<SimonCox> 3-D, time-series
kerry: 3d, location, feature of interest with Time Series measurements
<SimonCox> Also: 3-D location may not be in x-y-z - borehole data is offset along a curve
<chaals> where we are up to
Aaron: (geoscience australia) says that Rachel's use case is very similar to theirs
<SimonCox> Also: 3-D location may not be in x-y-z - borehole data is offset along a curve
<Payam> Requirement-> Rachel: practise on how to publish time series monitoring data so that it can be consumed by clients over the web
jtandy: calls out the point about boreholes
<SimonCox> Yes - local frame
liangsteve: this is a local frame of reference
kerry: is this our requirement or best practice
jtandy: best practice
kerry: [moving to the next use case]
(oops - not moved on yet)
kerry: requirement here around
timeseries graphs
... low accuracy is not an issue for us; we already talked
about data quality and imprecise references for time
... [adding another requirement for imprecise spatial
references]
... imprecise location
... any more requirements in this use case?
aaron: thinks that this is covered
next use case: Use of a place name ontology for geo-parsing text and geo-enabling searches
<SimonCox> SIRF project at CSIRO
SimonCox: am reading carefully what Rachel wrote
kerry: looking just at the times
Sylvain_Grellet_BRGM: this raises issues about geological time
SimonCox: some of the key things here are changes of name over time
<Sylvain_Grellet_BRGM> this was discussed during the "time" split session this morning. They added new use cases
kerry: ok - so naming places is
best practices?
... the other group's job
phila: potentially ... this use case suggests creating a new ontology
<arogers> also, the extents of a named place changing over time
phila: be surprised if we need to do this
<SimonCox> THe main requirement relates to geo-parsing
<SimonCox> I agree that time is a minor element of this story
JeanB: this also picks out the need for explicitly defining temporal reference system
kerry: ok - new requirement
<SimonCox> Versioned names is good
phila: Rachel is suggesting that geonames _already_ has versioned names
<phila> Driving to work in the snow
<Sylvain_Grellet_BRGM> @Simon : but we don't usually refer to reference objects using their name (ex : a monitoring facility, a borehole, a geol unit)
Payam: this is talking about
point of interest
... this is about linking the observation (event) to the real
world feature / thing
kerry: and the real world feature has spatial attributes
JeanB: we're also interested in WHEN the observation happened
Payam: this also talks about lightweight protocol ... integration with MQTT etc. for IoT
liangsteve: [agrees]
kerry: so the requirement is "lightweight version of the ontology for IoT applications"
Payam: we have a requirement to
provide tools and APIs to help people publish / discover this
content
... like a reference implementation
phila: nothing in W3C becomes a
standard without demonstrating that it works
... you need two independent implementations
jtandy: so we need a reference implementation to complete the REC (recommendation) track
<SimonCox> OGC has test-suite in principle, but often not available until too late ...
phila: W3C also encourages use of
test suites
... html5 has thousands
... with SSN (etc) you're validating the data - not testing the
sensor
<SimonCox> SPARQL assertions for validation
phila: the basic thing (for the test suite) is to prove that it works
<SimonCox> Cory is now online
<Payam> we have developed a simple validator for SSN: http://iot3.ee.surrey.ac.uk/SSNValidation/
<Payam> CoryHenson: we are discussing your use-case
<Payam> https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/Working_Use_Cases#snow
kerry: requirement - need to represent qualitative observations
<SimonCox> (i.e. CategoryObservation from O&M)
liangsteve: trying to match this
to O&M
... O&M has category observation
<Zakim> jtandy, you wanted to point out what that CSV on the Web is building a test framework
ack
<CoryHenson> Payam: Is anyone else on GoToMeeting besides myself and Adila?
<Payam> no Cory; can you join on skype?
<SimonCox> At least one test per requirement
<Payam> GoTo meeting is in a different room
jtandy: CSV on the Web is building a test framework ... happy to share the approach with this WG
kerry: ok - moving on ...
<SimonCox> Have we moved on?
kerry: we're talking about
spatial relations that are contextual; e.g. "near the coffee
shop"
... but this is for the spatial best practice team
<SimonCox> +1
kerry: [...]
phila: this "integration of SSN with existing, well-known, IoT protocols (CoAP, MQTT, etc.)" is just what we need to do
<SimonCox> Who is AZ?
kerry: another requirement here
about repeating intervals (schedules), calendars, temporal
relations
... I think we're done with this use case
<phila> ntelligent Transportation System
<SimonCox> Kerry is using numbers but they are not inline in the list of ucs
<CoryHenson> Payam: How to dial-in with skype? ID: henson.andrew ... I cannot hear anything over GoToMeeting
AZ: in this use case we focus on the traveller side
<SimonCox> (I only have my laptop screen and already too many windows)
AZ: to help the user find the
best route
... ... also dynamic information - like the current location of
buses / trains, traffic info, public works
<Payam> CoryHenson: sent you an invitation
AZ: geo-information and dynamic
information too
... possibly the sensors could be in the road, sensing traffic
counts
... assessing traffic flow
kerry: this fits with the earlier
discussion about categorical observations
... "something has happened"
... e.g. traffic got heavy
... qualitative observations
<scribe> ... new requirement here: sensors creating qualitative events
JeanB: there might be some
interest in [OGC] MovingFeatures here
... also linear referencing; e.g. from junction X, 100 yds
<SimonCox> linear referencing is same as borehole
kerry: still working on "intelligent transport systems" uc
JeanB: the kind of event that could happen along a road network - is this something that should be identified in this case?
kerry: asks for clarification
<SimonCox> [I can create another GoToMeeting if that would be preferred]
JeanB: [...]
<SimonCox> [sound on skype is good, but not everyone can join themselves]
kerry: I think we already have
this for the qualitative observations
... we're not going to [build an ontology] for transport
networks
liangsteve: we mention spatitemporal scales
kerry: yes - putting data
together from multiple scales
... being about to adapt to varying scales
liangsteve: observations can happen at different scales
kerry: requirement - represent and integrate observations from different scales
AZ: parking spots - we need to know when a parking spot becomes available
kerry: already have this with sensors detecting qualitative events?
phila: related; not the same
thing ... parking spot being free (or not) is a query of state,
I don't care when it became available
... [...]
<Sylvain_Grellet_BRGM> isn't that a kind of notification system ?
Payam: we need an interface to find the data and then query
kerry: out of scope
<phila> phila: Just thinking aloud. Do we want to think about defining a browser API for finding the state of something sensed by a sensor, e.g. whether a parking space is occupied or not.
Payam: do we go to the interface [API] level
<phila> There's a difference between detecting the event that state has changed (activity streams?) and querying its current state.
liangsteve: yes - in SWE4IoT we provide an API; not just the data model
kerry: ok - this is a
metaquestion to come back to
... "shall we define APIs to work with this data - or just the
data models?"
phila: of course - we need to be careful what we wish for - because we'd need browsers to adopt the API in order to complete REC track
kerry: next use case
<phila> Optimizing energy consumption, production, sales and purchases
<phila> ^^ The use case we're talking about
AZ: [talks about the use case ...
refer to the text on the wiki]
... need both predictive information (e.g. weather) and
historic information (statistical analysis)
kerry: requirement - temporal needs to work with past, present and future
<chaals> • Agreed-upon vocabulary for metadata about spatial datasets
<chaals> • Agreed-upon URIs for common spatial reference systems
<chaals> • Recommendations for a default, canonical spatial reference system for spatial data published on the web
<chaals> • Recommendations for serializing geometries as RDF
kerry: ... and there's another one
AZ: the current location of the electric vehicle is important too - they might _be_ sources of energy too
(like a big battery)
kerry: this is like the location of a moving sensor
<Zakim> phila, you wanted to ask Antoine whether TV schedules, sport schedules etc are important for this Use Case?
phila: @AZ - in your use case,
does it matter about the TV schedule?
... when a commercial break occurs on TV, everyone makes a cup
of coffee - puts the kettle on
AZ: yes ... thanks
kerry: adding this to an existing
close requirment
... schedules are already discussed in a previous use
case
... moving onto next use case
<phila> 101 Smart City Use-cases
Payam: in smart cities, we annotate _data streams_ not individual observations
kerry: new requirement - annotate data streams; link data streams to the observations metadata
Payam: another concern is "the
human as a sensor" - with observations coming from social
media
... we also need to link observations to domain specific
ontologies
kerry: linking this to the existing req about qualitative observations
Payam: describing the context of the device that provides the data
liangsteve: 2 parts here; one is
the specification of the sensor
... other part is environmental; e.g. the electric vehicle when
going down hill _generates_ electricty
<CoryHenson> +1 for linking context to device/observation
liangsteve
liangsteve: linking the sensor to some other "coverage" (like a DEM; digital elevation model) to determine context
Payam: [...] licensing of data
kerry: is this out of scope?
phila: think if another WG can
cover this - e.g. DWBP (data on the web best practice)
... push the requirement to them?
<phila> phila: It's OK to find requirements that you can pass to other WGs. For example, Digital Rights Statements, licensing etc. is, perhaps, something that could be passed to the Data on the Web Best practices WG
<phila> ... (or just to me)
<SimonCox> @phila Are DWBP using ODRL?
Payam: another one - data publishers define relationships between data streams
kerry: thanks - adding this requirement
<phila> No, SimonCox - but I'm gathering evidence that we need a full WG to make it a standard. Problem, as ever, is critical mass of W3C Members
kerry: @Payam - is that the full 101?
Payam: yes ...
liangsteve
liangsteve: need to think about
participatory and opportunistic data capture
... e.g. "I saw this [and reported it]", vs. "I carry a cell
phone that measures barometric pressure"
Payam: when working with large
data ...
... do we need validation tools so that people can test
compliance against our ontologies / recommendations?
kerry: another meta requirement
... can we come back to that later?
... @phila - can you remind me
<scribe> ACTION: phila to remind kerry about providing validation test suite [recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/03/11-sdw-minutes.html#action02]
<trackbot> Created ACTION-11 - Remind kerry about providing validation test suite [on Phil Archer - due 2015-03-18].
kerry: next use case
<phila> Linked Data for Tax Assessment
kerry: this one came from the
wider community ...
... does this have new requirements - or have we already
covered this
phila: looks pretty straight
forward;
... e.g. "tell me where someone lives"
kerry: ok - best practice
stuff
... moving on
<SimonCox> I would like to make sure a uc involving Sampling Features gets on the agenda
<SimonCox> AFAIK this requirement has not been mentioned yet
<phila> Images, e.g. a Time series of a Water Course
kerry: the interesting thing here is that the images change with time
<Linda> link to doc with best practice breakout group minutes: https://docs.google.com/document/m/?id=1oxrsKw2scisIt9fSGe-KhTCr8VimKbhJgXzBBv7iaS0&login=1&pli=1
<phila> Thanks Linda
kerry: a coverage could define [...]
[waiting to summarise discussion]
liangsteve: in remote sensing the
location of the sensed thing is different to the location of
the sensor
... this is the definition of "remote sensing"
JeanB: I think that this is about
relating coverages together [...]
... it would be interesting for prediction; e.g. for floods
...
kerry: relating timeseries over time; relating spatial coverages over time
<scribe> ... new requirement
<SimonCox> ... and linked sampling features
<SimonCox> stations on a traverse, etc
Sylvain_Grellet_BRGM: and those timeseries coverages are of images in this use case
JeanB: need to think about the granularity of data that we're annotating with metadata?
<eparsons> It's 4pm CET - Time to Summarise requirements so far in the big room
jtandy: yes - this is a perma thread ... do I provide metadata for an observation with an individual tuple or a 20GB data set ... or some where in between
<SimonCox> An RDA WG has just generated a report on dynamic data citation
<SimonCox> focussed on subsets
kerry: yes; new requirement -
"annotation for multiple granularities of data"
... ok - so where going to move in to the plenary session to
present a summary of this session
<eparsons> Goto Meeting for Lightning talks is https://www4.gotomeeting.com/join/682717181 at 4:30pm CET
<SimonCox> Which channel now? GoToMeeting? Which one
[all those on skype - we're moving to the other room where the goto meeting is operating ... at least as well as it does]
<SimonCox> Which gotomeeting?
we're going to use the _new_ goto meeting https://www4.gotomeeting.com/join/682717181 set up for the lightning talks ...
<eparsons> Yes audio will be via goto meeting
it is ready right now
<phila> JeanB: We started with the time aspects. We weren't sure where to go with this...
<phila> ... we went through the UCs trying to identify what woujld be needed for the future ontologies
<phila> ... not in tejrms of classes and themes but the more generic sense
<phila> ... how can we establish the ontologies for relationships between coverages, time series, specific reqs etc.
<phila> ... we looked at 28 use cases
<phila> ... the first use cases were more difficult
<phila> ... we found a lot of commonalities
<phila> ... need to go through and create links between use cases and reqs
<phila> kerry: We need to go through the remainder of the use cases
<phila> ... in the telecons
<phila> ... it'll be easier to finish off in the telcos now
<phila> kerry: we had discussions about things that may be going broader, like browser APIs
<phila> JeanB: We know that space, time and moving features are all important
<phila> The requirements post-its
<phila> chaals: We went through a lot of the UCs (24)
<phila> ... some things are very general. We want to be able to find data, query it
<phila> ... what queries can a given service answer
<phila> ... not all stores will implement everything
<phila> ... those are very general to data on the Web
<phila> ... Within that there are specific spatial aspect.
<phila> ... Time is important
<phila> ... nachines should be able to match two spaces
<phila> ... My phone my tell me I'm in Barcelona by giving my location far more accurately than is relevalt
<phila> ... so diff levels of details is important
<phila> ... Shapes are important. Default is WGS84. Doesn't define an actual shape
<phila> ... smart people use a different CRS
<phila> ... they'll know which lines are accurate and where etc.
<phila> ... we need to allow for named places, eg Barcelona
<phila> ... diff people mean diff things but they overlap
<phila> ... need to be able to deal with fictional places (Starship Enterprise etc)
<phila> ... Got to give spatial data a URI so it's on the Web
<SimonCox> Question to Spatial Best Practices group:
<phila> ... can't rely on a heirarchical structure
<SimonCox> Is place disjoint geometry?
<phila> chaals: Need to be able to mix geographic and non-geographic
<phila> SimonCox: Is place disjoint geometry?
<phila> chaals: It can be
<phila> SimonCox: It's a pretty fundamental aspect of the OGC view of the world
<phila> ... we have features have geometries
<JoshLieberman> geometry is a model, e.g. of place. Not a place itself...
<phila> ... this is a key ontological basis that's not always understood in the Web spatial community where there's more of a passing reference
<phila> chaals: We have to be able to describe a geometry
<phila> And therein lies a topic that is lurking under all this JoshLieberman
<SimonCox> I don't think Chaals got my point
<JoshLieberman> Agreed
<Linda> we discussed it earlier in the bp breakout group and I think it came across Simon.
<MattPerry> Simon: I think you meant to say "is place disjoint from geometry"
<phila> Kerry: Please be back at 16:30 for series of quick talks
<SimonCox> OK - thanks Linda
<phila> == BREAK==
<SimonCox> @MattPerry - yes, typing fast
<SimonCox> Phila caught it in minutes OK
<SimonCox> Everyone mute GoTOMeeting if not speaking
<SimonCox> please
<phila> This session is being recorded through GoToMeeting. But please put the link to your slides here (upload them to the wiki if you don't have them online already).
<phila> The Locations and Addresses Community group
<phila> The LOCN vocabulary
<phila> for those unfamiliar with DCAT
<SimonCox> Please ask everyone to load slides here: https://portal.opengeospatial.org/index.php?m=projects&a=view&project_id=82&tab=2&artifact_id=62359
<phila> As well as the wiki page at https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/F2f_Barcelona
<danbri> SimonCox, what flavour of OWL (DL, OWL-2, Lite, Full etc.) does OWL Time work for? (sorry if you covered this, audio fuzzy)
<CoryHenson> bye
<Adila> bye
<MattPerry> bye
<Rachel> bye
<SimonCox> bye
<AZ> bye
<phila> trackbot end meeting
<phila> trackbot end meeting
This is scribe.perl Revision: 1.140 of Date: 2014-11-06 18:16:30 Check for newer version at http://dev.w3.org/cvsweb/~checkout~/2002/scribe/ Guessing input format: RRSAgent_Text_Format (score 1.00) Succeeded: s/paper/paper or electronic form/ Succeeded: s/acases/cases/ Succeeded: s/calssify/classify/ Succeeded: s/WaterML/WaterML2/ Succeeded: s/absed/based/ Succeeded: s/intrpolated/interpolated/ Succeeded: s/whichshe/which she/ Succeeded: s/PB:/pebau/ FAILED: s/PeterBaumann/pebau/g Succeeded: s/PB:/pebau/g Succeeded: s/we need tro/we need to/ Succeeded: s/discvovery/discovery/ Succeeded: s/GeoReferecned/GeoReferenced/ Succeeded: s/provenace/provenance/ Succeeded: s/whetehr/whether/ Succeeded: s/pst/post/ Succeeded: s/do a simialar use-case/ work on a simialar use-case/ Succeeded: s/kimw/kymw/ Succeeded: s/time/"time"/ Succeeded: s/linkange/linkage/ Succeeded: s/TimE/Time/ FAILED: s/Jeanb: Requirement: how to use SSN for temporal aggregations and representing addresses/aggregated space and time/ Succeeded: s/Requirement: how to use SSN for temporal aggregations and representing addresses/JeanB: aggregated space and time/ Succeeded: s/AisQuality/AirQuality/ Succeeded: s/realted/related/ Succeeded: s/JohnHerring: we couldn't see a coverage requirement for use-case 19/we couldn't see a coverage requirement for use-case 19/ Succeeded: s/Rachel this comments was from JoshLieberman/Rachel this comments was from JohnHerring/ Succeeded: s/requiremetns/requirements/ Succeeded: s/this/this session/ Succeeded: s/will be/is/ Succeeded: s/Sessio/Session/ Succeeded: s/tghrough/through/ Found Scribe: phila Inferring ScribeNick: phila Found ScribeNick: jtandy Found Scribe: Jeremy Tandy Found Scribe: phila Inferring ScribeNick: phila Found ScribeNick: phila Found Scribe: payam Inferring ScribeNick: Payam Found ScribeNick: payam Found Scribe: payam barnaghi Found Scribe: Jeremy Tandy Found ScribeNick: jtandy Scribes: phila, Jeremy Tandy, payam, payam barnaghi ScribeNicks: phila, jtandy, Payam Present: aharth alejandro Armin AZ BBlaabjergBisgaard Carl_Reed ChrisLittle Dimitri eparsons Erik_Guldberg Ian_Holt IngoSimonis JeanB Jeff_Walter JohnHerring jtandy kerry Kyoungsook_Kim Linda lucvanlinden ManolisKoubarakis Paulvg Payam phila Rachel Saud stlemme Sylvain_Grellet_BRGM TedHabermann tom_ellett voges xavier Leif Jb_henry KymW Frans raphael Raphael (remote) AndreaPerego Stefan Christine Perey Gianluca_Luraschi Ioannis_Athanasiadis Peter Baumann David_Burggraf Marie-Francoise laurent-oz O_Morel Aaron Geoscience Aus Cory_Henson Chaals DanBri JoshLieberman rlay simonthum SimonCox MattPerry arogers Antoine Zimmermann Cory Henson Agenda: https://www.w3.org/2015/spatial/wiki/F2f_Barcelona Got date from IRC log name: 11 Mar 2015 Guessing minutes URL: http://www.w3.org/2015/03/11-sdw-minutes.html People with action items: kerry phila[End of scribe.perl diagnostic output]