14:37:44 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
14:37:44 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-wai-wcag-irc
14:37:46 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
14:37:47 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #wai-wcag
14:37:48 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
14:37:49 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 23 minutes
14:37:49 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
14:37:49 <trackbot> Date: 10 March 2015
14:37:52 <Joshue108> zakim, agenda?
14:37:52 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
14:38:00 <Joshue108> agenda+ General CSUN debrief
14:38:17 <Joshue108> agenda+ TF updates from CSUN
14:38:27 <Joshue108> Chair: Ad hoc
14:38:39 <Joshue108> regrets+ Jon Avila
14:57:08 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has now started
14:57:15 <Zakim> + +1.617.766.aaaa
14:57:27 <AWK> AWK has joined #wai-wcag
14:57:37 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the phone?
14:57:39 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.617.766.aaaa
14:57:46 <AWK> Zakim, aaaa is AWK
14:57:46 <Zakim> +AWK; got it
14:58:06 <AWK> Zakim, agenda?
14:58:06 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
14:58:07 <Zakim> 1. General CSUN debrief [from Joshue108]
14:58:07 <Zakim> 2. TF updates from CSUN [from Joshue108]
14:59:52 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:00:00 <Mike_Pluke> Mike_Pluke has joined #wai-wcag
15:00:06 <Joshue108> zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
15:00:06 <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
15:00:21 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:00:21 <Zakim> On the phone I see AWK, Joshue
15:00:49 <Kathy> Kathy has joined #wai-wcag
15:01:26 <Zakim> +??P24
15:01:40 <Zakim> +Kathy_Wahlbin
15:01:53 <Joshue108> zakim, P24 is Mike
15:01:53 <Zakim> sorry, Joshue108, I do not recognize a party named 'P24'
15:02:00 <Joshue108> zakim, P24 is Mike_Pluke
15:02:00 <Zakim> sorry, Joshue108, I do not recognize a party named 'P24'
15:02:06 <Joshue108> zakim, ++P24 is Mike_Pluke
15:02:06 <Zakim> sorry, Joshue108, I do not recognize a party named '++P24'
15:02:14 <Joshue108> zakim, ??P24 is Mike_Pluke
15:02:14 <Zakim> +Mike_Pluke; got it
15:05:31 <Kenny> zakim, call kenny-mobile
15:05:31 <Zakim> ok, Kenny; the call is being made
15:05:32 <Zakim> +Kenny
15:06:16 <Zakim> + +1.303.579.aabb
15:06:17 <Loretta> Loretta has joined #wai-wcag
15:06:51 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:07:04 <Joshue108> zakim, [IPcaller] is Loretta
15:07:04 <Zakim> +Loretta; got it
15:07:44 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:07:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see AWK, Joshue, Mike_Pluke, Kathy_Wahlbin, Kenny, +1.303.579.aabb, Loretta
15:07:58 <Zakim> +Marc_Johlic
15:08:06 <AWK> Zakim, aabb is So VAng
15:08:06 <Zakim> I don't understand 'aabb is So VAng', AWK
15:08:20 <AWK> Zakim, So VAng is So Vang
15:08:20 <Zakim> I don't understand 'So VAng is So Vang', AWK
15:09:06 <Joshue108> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:09:06 <Zakim> On the phone I see AWK, Joshue, Mike_Pluke, Kathy_Wahlbin, Kenny, +1.303.579.aabb, Loretta, Marc_Johlic
15:09:08 <Zakim> +??P41
15:09:18 <MichaelC> zakim, who is on the phone?
15:09:18 <Zakim> On the phone I see AWK, Joshue, Mike_Pluke, Kathy_Wahlbin, Kenny, +1.303.579.aabb, Loretta, Marc_Johlic, Michael_Cooper
15:09:22 <MichaelC> zakim, aabb is So_Vang
15:09:22 <Zakim> +So_Vang; got it
15:09:37 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
15:10:21 <Zakim> + +1.313.390.aacc
15:10:31 <Mike_Elledge> Mike_Elledge has joined #wai-wcag
15:10:39 <Joshue108> zakim, aacc is Mike _Elledge
15:10:39 <Zakim> I don't understand 'aacc is Mike _Elledge', Joshue108
15:10:45 <Joshue108> zakim, aacc is Mike_Elledge
15:10:45 <Zakim> +Mike_Elledge; got it
15:11:03 <AWK> Chair: Joshue
15:11:08 <MoeKraft> MoeKraft has joined #wai-wcag
15:11:23 <Zakim> +Katie_Haritos-Shea
15:11:23 <Joshue108> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
15:11:44 <AWK> Scribe: Mike_Elledge
15:11:48 <Joshue108> zakim, next item
15:11:48 <Zakim> agendum 1. "General CSUN debrief" taken up [from Joshue108]
15:11:49 <Zakim> + +1.617.577.aadd
15:12:01 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #wai-wcag
15:12:01 <AWK> zakim, aadd is Moe Kraft
15:12:01 <Zakim> I don't understand 'aadd is Moe Kraft', AWK
15:12:05 <Joshue108> zakim, aadd is Moe_Kraft
15:12:05 <Zakim> +Moe_Kraft; got it
15:13:00 <Mike_Elledge> JO: General CSUN debrief. Experiences. Then update from Kathy on Mobile TF meeting.
15:13:42 <Mike_Elledge> AK: One of important things is discussions Wednesday and Friday. I was there. Kathy were you there?
15:13:51 <Mike_Elledge> K: Part of time.
15:14:23 <Mike_Elledge> AK: Loretta was there. Katie was there Friday. Mike E. was there for both days.
15:15:07 <Mike_Elledge> AK: Interesting both days.  Wednesday not as lively. More theoretical. Friday was more free-flowing. Perhaps bec conf was over.
15:15:40 <Joshue108> q?
15:15:50 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
15:15:50 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:15:53 <Mike_Elledge> AK: Judy Brewer had a deck that had a list of questions. DK if it is posted. Guaranteed wouldn't get through all. One was balancing stability with keeping up with technology.
15:16:46 <Mike_Elledge> AK: The general theme. Keeping WCAG as standard while looking to future without falling behind. Valuable discussion: Extension model, leave WCAG where it is, then work on particular extensions like low vision.
15:17:40 <Mike_Elledge> AK: Possible target areas: vertical markets (TV, Autos, Digital publishing) as areas of general interest for W3C, that others are looking into as well.
15:17:49 <Mike_Elledge> AK: Interested in what others thought.
15:17:50 <Joshue108> q+ to ask How would the suggested extensions work? Similar to the TF model?
15:18:03 <Joshue108> ack me
15:18:04 <Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to ask How would the suggested extensions work? Similar to the TF model?
15:18:30 <Mike_Elledge> JO: Any suggestion on how extensions would work? Like TF for specific areas of work?
15:18:46 <Mike_Elledge> AK: Tactical planning not really part of it. Figuring out what was of interest.
15:18:57 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
15:18:57 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:19:57 <Mike_Elledge> K: Whole extension piece would solve issues fitting within guidelines that are part of mobile, for example. Where specific to mobile would fit in. Excited by idea, make it easier to define either from vertical or technology.
15:20:26 <Joshue108> I like the vertical model too, but have concerns about bandwidth and resources.
15:20:31 <Mike_Elledge> K: A number of important things that could be addressed. Things that may not be communicated right now about specific subjects. Others seem excited too.
15:20:58 <AWK> Mike_Elledge: Struck by enthusiasm
15:21:23 <AWK> ...and the desire to put the emphasis on personalization and contextualization
15:22:19 <Mike_Elledge> AWK: To clarify. Greater point that recognition that cognitive, mobile and low vision are big areas where need for add'l work. Some perceived shortcomings in WCAG, and WAI guidelines in general. Should be able to do more for those audiences.
15:22:53 <Joshue108> q+
15:22:59 <Mike_Pluke> q+
15:23:29 <Joshue108> ack me
15:23:30 <Mike_Elledge> AK: These concepts were interesting in that may be impossible to deliver one experience to meet everyone's needs. Words instead of icons or vice versa, may have different combinatiosn of needs. How to deliver personalization important to those areas.
15:23:35 <AWK> ack j
15:23:36 <Joshue108> q+ to ask about the delta between GPII and this kind of model
15:23:41 <Joshue108> ack me
15:23:41 <Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to ask about the delta between GPII and this kind of model
15:24:35 <Mike_Elledge> JO: Just to ask about getting into area of GPII, customized UIs. Focus further down the road. Need to consider how WAI will work with that. Something we can tease out more?
15:24:43 <AWK> agenda+ TPAC 2015
15:24:51 <Loretta> q+
15:25:39 <Mike_Elledge> AK: Agree something we need to know more about. GPII is still going to need standards. Gregg doing some really cool stuff, but at this time no way to really identify the components.
15:25:42 <AWK> ack mik
15:25:49 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
15:25:49 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:27:15 <Mike_Elledge> MP: Personalization/contextualization, aware of GPII. essential to meet individuals. How will it work with WCAG, which is more universal. Some SC, whatever will be applicable to some people in some circumstances. Need method for how WCAG will address contextual and optional requirements.
15:27:29 <Joshue108> q+
15:27:34 <Mike_Elledge> MP: If person/context how to apply within WCAG.
15:28:48 <AWK> ack lor
15:28:49 <Mike_Elledge> AK: Good question, don't know the answer. Personalization extension, or SC applied to situation. Would be great if everything was organized and browser could do heavy lifting. DK what full extant of effort would be.
15:30:15 <Joshue108> ack me
15:30:17 <Mike_Elledge> L: Line betw user agent and content responsibility keeps getting blurrier. Not sure how that is resolved. A11y requirement puts onus back on user for things User Agents don't do. How will customized rendering be achieved? Unclear how it will.
15:32:04 <Mike_Elledge> JO: Blurring between content and user guidelines true for mobile too. WCAG is applicable in many contexts. Perception that only applies to particular content. Shift could go to technology from content, dk if need to make as much distinction between User Agent and content. A11y and universal detail devil is in the details.
15:32:21 <Mike_Pluke> q+
15:32:30 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
15:32:30 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:32:32 <Mike_Elledge> JO: Developers need guidance. Concerned how we meet GPII.
15:32:33 <AWK> ack mike
15:33:34 <Joshue108> MP: In our guidelines it is clear that x is a content issue, but blurring too much can cause abstractions to break down.
15:33:36 <Mike_Elledge> MP: Involved in European procurement rules, very clear that it is a content issue. When writing requirements someone will have to meet can't have that blurring. If whole thing falls apart who has responsibility.
15:33:51 <Mike_Elledge> q+
15:35:37 <Joshue108> q?
15:35:43 <Mike_Elledge> AK: Didn't have solution. Discussion about modules for vertical markets, mobile or vertical markets. Ppl interested in industry work (TV, autos, digital pubs) or cognitive, low vision and mobile (another grouping). How do we resource or group.
15:36:23 <Mike_Elledge> Katie: Auto not that different from mobile. Relatively close, brightness of screen, touch.
15:36:27 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
15:36:28 <Mike_Elledge> AK: Which do you like?
15:36:36 <Mike_Elledge> Katie: Observation.
15:36:42 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
15:36:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
15:36:44 <AWK> ack mi
15:36:58 <Joshue108> q+ to say the closer we can find mappings between verticals, the more we can avoid repitition.
15:37:11 <Joshue108> ME: The devil is in the details.
15:37:23 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
15:37:36 <Joshue108> ME: We could have guidelines SCs related to peoples ability.
15:37:50 <Joshue108> ME: Via taxonomies, attributes mapped to various criteria etc
15:38:03 <Joshue108> ME: DOn't know how to make it happen, but could be effective.
15:38:08 <Mike_Pluke> +1
15:38:11 <Joshue108> ME: JIT A11y
15:38:17 <Joshue108> q?
15:38:25 <Joshue108> ack me
15:38:26 <Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to say the closer we can find mappings between verticals, the more we can avoid repitition.
15:38:35 <Mike_Elledge> ME: Just coined a new term. JIT A11y.
15:38:50 <Mike_Elledge> JO: Could be a nice #tag.
15:40:19 <Mike_Elledge> JO: Tie in to what Katie said. Don't want to do a whole lot of repetition. ID core things we do as a11y people, liek when we go to clients. Repeat basic best practices. Have them at the core of each vertical: design patterns, markup, etc. Could reduce repetition. Like similarities betw auto and mobile.
15:40:52 <Mike_Elledge> JO: Conscious of verticals popping up like mushrooms. Have to focus more on what ppl see as being stuff they'd like to do. Question is still open.
15:41:02 <Mike_Elledge> J: What do you mean by vertical?
15:41:14 <Joshue108> q?
15:42:22 <Mike_Elledge> AK: Discussion about doing work with WCAG to look at industry specific modules, digital pub, TV, and what WCAG means in that context. Low vision, mobile and cognitive focus. With number of ppl in WCAG can't do all at once. So want to know ppls interest.
15:42:34 <Kathy> q+
15:42:48 <Mike_Elledge> J: Don't see why we have concern about verticals. DK why we would treat them differently from any other technology.
15:43:08 <Mike_Elledge> JO: Not treat them differently, trying to anticipate.
15:43:12 <AWK> ack kat
15:44:11 <Joshue108> q?
15:44:23 <Mike_Elledge> K: As far as verticals, some are important. Call out specific things, like pub: still view of moving content. Professors should be able to pause content. Important for digital publishing. There are examples for each.
15:44:46 <Mike_Elledge> J: Talking about verticals like retail. DK what we're talking about. Automotive?
15:44:53 <Mike_Pluke> q+
15:44:58 <Mike_Elledge> J: Confused by terminology.
15:45:12 <Mike_Elledge> AK: Terminology needs to be worked out.
15:45:21 <Mike_Elledge> J: Not sure that retail is WCAG's business.
15:45:50 <MichaelC> q+ to say point of sale covers near field communications, which W3C does have an API for
15:45:51 <Mike_Elledge> JO: Verticals are specific domains like mobile, and various chunks we would work on.
15:46:02 <AWK> ack mi
15:46:02 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say point of sale covers near field communications, which W3C does have an API for
15:46:15 <MichaelC> ack mike
15:46:17 <MichaelC> q+ to say point of sale covers near field communications, which W3C does have an API for
15:47:02 <jamesn> verticals to us are Communications, Education, Healthcare, Utilities, Retails etc.
15:47:07 <MichaelC> q+ to say APA reviews all these techs
15:47:09 <Mike_Elledge> MP: If you start to talk about functional limitations. Auto: reduced cognitive load, attention, etc. the things you'd need to emphasis. Primary issues in automotive.
15:47:34 <Mike_Elledge> JO: Identifying core stuff that would be common a good approach?
15:48:09 <MichaelC> q+ to say automative impacts second screen, real time communications, etc.
15:48:10 <Mike_Elledge> MP: Yes, could be done fairly easily, take those things that relate to reduced cognitive load could apply them.
15:48:10 <MichaelC> ack me
15:48:10 <Zakim> MichaelC, you wanted to say point of sale covers near field communications, which W3C does have an API for and to say APA reviews all these techs and to say automative impacts
15:48:13 <Zakim> ... second screen, real time communications, etc.
15:49:34 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
15:49:34 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:49:45 <Mike_Elledge> MC: Okay, I guess the term used by W3C for verticals won't match up to general industry definition. One impact near field communication, W3C actually has API for that. For auto real time...that said handled by accessible technology working group. Guidelines for using those features.
15:50:11 <jamesn> can someone point me to the W3C definition as I want to know what we are talking about - this is all I could find - http://www.w3.org/standards/semanticweb/applications.html
15:51:02 <Mike_Elledge> MC: Mobile and cognitive are different kinds of verticals. For some there will be a need for standards, others have to pay attention to particular issues. Auto, for example, can't have small type.
15:51:12 <Joshue108> ack me
15:51:22 <Mike_Elledge> MC: Shouldn't be constrained by particular model. Focus on what we need to address.
15:51:43 <Joshue108> Thats a good point, as already use of terms like vertical are steering our thinking in subtle ways..
15:52:14 <Mike_Elledge> AK: Person view is that we have plenty to do in mobile, cognitive, low vision and these are issues that affect everything. Would prefer to harden the core, with limited resources. Guidance that would help in general.
15:52:51 <Mike_Elledge> AK: With more resources could look at specific needs. Digital publishing working group could look at and integrate. But top priority is we harden the common space.
15:52:58 <Mike_Pluke> +1
15:53:11 <Joshue108> +1
15:53:13 <Joshue108> q?
15:53:15 <Mike_Elledge> +1
15:53:16 <Joshue108> q+
15:53:18 <Joshue108> ack me
15:53:25 <marcjohlic> q+
15:53:45 <Ryladog> Ryladog has joined #wai-wcag
15:53:49 <Ryladog> +1
15:54:20 <Mike_Elledge> JO: I wonder if we're saying the same thing. You know I thought michael's comment on terminology is good. Have to be careful about our internal jargon harder for outside groups to understand.
15:54:58 <AWK> q+ Katie
15:55:09 <Mike_Elledge> JO: Whole discussion of verticals a moot discussion. Shaping our thinking. Have to be open-minded about our approach. Need to be clear about what we're trying to do. Still soemthing that still isn't clear.
15:55:25 <AWK> ack marc
15:55:38 <Mike_Elledge> JO: Playing catch-up not good. Esp with consensus approach of W3C.
15:55:41 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
15:55:41 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
15:56:01 <Mike_Elledge> ?: Talking about hardengin the course what do you mean? Techniques?
15:56:16 <Joshue108> s/hardengin/hardening
15:57:45 <Mike_Elledge> AK: Have to think about mobile as part of whole thing, not a separate thing. An augmentation to the existing guidelines, can add as a layer. Different from auto, gaming, etc. If we're going to talk about how WCAG applies to retail, there can be app for that.
15:58:28 <Mike_Elledge> AK: Mobile really not different from WCAG. But for auto need to be prohibited from certain things since driving down the road.
15:59:32 <AWK> ack katie
15:59:37 <Mike_Elledge> MJ: Getting asked more and more for wCAG guidance on HTML5 techniques still have lots to be done. How do we apply AA to automotive--a resource issue.
16:00:15 <Mike_Elledge> Katie: There are other paradigms will have to take into account. Make take other protocols as well.
16:00:51 <Mike_Elledge> AK: Any other thoughts on this? CSUN in general?
16:01:07 <MoeKraft> q+
16:01:09 <cstrobbe> cstrobbe has joined #wai-wcag
16:01:13 <Mike_Elledge> MC: Resource improvement?
16:01:24 <Mike_Elledge> AK: People love our resources!
16:01:50 <Zakim> +cstrobbe
16:01:59 <cstrobbe> zakim, mute me
16:01:59 <Zakim> cstrobbe should now be muted
16:01:59 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
16:02:00 <Zakim> Joshue was already muted, Joshue108
16:02:04 <Zakim> -Marc_Johlic
16:02:17 <Mike_Elledge> MC: Sharron Rush took notes. Hasn't sent around as far as I know. Panel on what doing to improve resources and what's thought about it. First half of session what they think about current mat'ls and how they would use them to accomplish specific tasks.
16:03:32 <Mike_Elledge> MC: Without notes, would say that one big take-away, that resources intended to support bureaucratically defined standards. Not meant to address specific tasks. Lots of interest in code examples up front, tagging by various aspects.
16:04:20 <Zakim> -So_Vang
16:04:42 <Mike_Elledge> MC: Some of the W3C formalism a struggle for ppl not in W3C. Then showed survey and prototypes for quick reference, and tutorials. Resonated for some ppl, working on some of those things they want. Tagging and tutorials (for particular roles).
16:05:12 <Joshue108> q?
16:05:42 <Mike_Elledge> MC: Not everyone who uses the mat'ls are a11y specialists, so have to help non-prof'ls better. Most important bits first. Reducing jargon (lol, understandability). Of the 20-30 in room seem positive about what we're doing.
16:06:11 <Mike_Elledge> MC: More oppty for feedback, but only 40 minutes. Seem to be on the right track, but need to make more progress.
16:06:36 <Mike_Elledge> AK: Some ppl really fired up--resources not as helpful as should be.
16:07:32 <Mike_Elledge> MC: Something that's been on my mind: How to we make it easier for ppl to help us. Techniques, have history of not using submissions. If we can find ways of leveraging help from wider world should do so. DK what those are. We have high bar.
16:08:11 <Mike_Elledge> AK: Can define things we want. Targets for people to contribute work that would be helpful.
16:08:19 <Joshue108> ack me
16:08:28 <Joshue108> ack Moe
16:09:33 <Ryladog> q+
16:09:43 <cstrobbe> Ken Nakata wrote a blog post about this: http://blog.hisoftware.com/2014/accessibility/wcag-2-0-should-not-be-applied-to-software-and-mobile-apps
16:09:47 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
16:09:47 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:10:01 <Mike_Elledge> MK: My comment is had attended Ken Takata presentation for desiging for a11y. During presentation gave a comment to Access Board that shouldn't apply WCAG to software. Didn't delve into it. Contrast minimum contrast not sufficient. There is a camp out there that is wary of mapping WCAG to 508 refresh. Still don't know what his issues are.
16:10:35 <Mike_Elledge> AK: If go to Hi Software blog can see his comments--gave them last time to Access Board.
16:11:18 <cstrobbe> zakim, unmute me
16:11:18 <Zakim> cstrobbe should no longer be muted
16:11:35 <Mike_Elledge> AK: Go to blog.hisoftware.com. See link above.
16:11:43 <cstrobbe> zakim, mute me
16:11:43 <Zakim> cstrobbe should now be muted
16:12:12 <Joshue108> ack Kat
16:12:15 <Joshue108> ack Ry
16:12:46 <Joshue108> ack me
16:12:51 <Mike_Pluke> Q+
16:13:07 <Mike_Elledge> Katie: Ken did also testify to the Access Board. Another thing don't think he owns Hi Software, just works there. Has been purchased by Cryptzone. Not much danger in Access Board changing they're mind.
16:13:07 <Joshue108> ack Mike
16:14:32 <Mike_Elledge> MP: Noticed that they referenced 549 as better way. Actually just re-wrote success criteria. Functionally what 549 and 508 did are the same. 508 points to working group notes. Not intended to be standard. Took the lazy approach.
16:15:03 <Mike_Elledge> MP: Some ppl want to make the european an international standard.
16:16:07 <MoeKraft> @Katie, You are correct. Ken Nakata is Director of Accessibility Consulting Practice at HiSoftware
16:16:15 <Mike_Elledge> MP: Had no choice. Some of the context is very unlikely that will applied to software. W3C had to address how it had to be done.
16:16:56 <Mike_Elledge> AK: Hearing some other companies that want a harmonized standard. Their not very different. Will be debate about how to harmonize them.
16:17:01 <Joshue108> ack me
16:17:20 <Joshue108> zakim, agenda?
16:17:20 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
16:17:21 <Zakim> 1. General CSUN debrief [from Joshue108]
16:17:21 <Zakim> 2. TF updates from CSUN [from Joshue108]
16:17:21 <Zakim> 3. TPAC 2015 [from AWK]
16:17:27 <Joshue108> zakim, next item
16:17:27 <Zakim> agendum 2. "TF updates from CSUN" taken up [from Joshue108]
16:17:43 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
16:17:43 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:17:56 <Joshue108> q?
16:17:59 <Mike_Elledge> K: So a couple things we did with mobile a11y. Presentation on Friday. Overall everyone had positive feedback. Several sessions where ppl said WCAG did not apply to mobile, so good that note is coming out that says it does.
16:19:18 <Mike_Elledge> K: Tuesday meeting, notes are out. Four areas: blue tooth keyboard support, also applies to mouth sticks, etc. Also talked about how that relates to touch and gestures. Custom gestures, minimum touch size, and research that's out there. Mobile TF will look into it.
16:19:50 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
16:19:50 <Zakim> Joshue was already muted, Joshue108
16:20:44 <Mike_Elledge> K: BBC, Apple, Android research on touch sizes. Moving toward personalization, how number of settings you can select adds to complexity. Honoring device settings and how it would work in best practice. Discussion on what is important for mobile users rather than WCAG.
16:22:43 <Mike_Elledge> K: Which challenges are being faced, so we can be sure we're addressing key areas. Customization, resizing of controls (not just text). Readability, color contrast (ppl are outside looking at device). When looking at background of 4.5:1, if go to higher level will reduce number of combinations available. Not always high contrast, some users need low contrast. Also minimum font size.
16:23:20 <Mike_Pluke> Q+
16:23:55 <Mike_Elledge> K: Not really possible to state miniumum font size. Also discussion of gestures and left to right movement can be difficult for some reasons. Brainstorming about mapping shortcuts to make it easier to use. Some of the highlights.
16:24:03 <Joshue108> q?
16:24:04 <Ryladog> mobile on Apple watch?
16:24:07 <Joshue108> q?
16:24:14 <Mike_Elledge> K: Mobile TF is going to look into these.
16:24:16 <Joshue108> ack me
16:24:19 <Joshue108> ack mike
16:24:28 <Joshue108> tnx Kathy, sounds good.
16:24:34 <Joshue108> zakim, mute me
16:24:34 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:25:39 <Mike_Elledge> MP: Looked at number of issues when doing Euro std. Virtually impossible to specify pixels. Couldn't really address color contrast on mobile phone in any meaningful way. No response from vendors. Will be interesting to see what comes out in mobile TF work.
16:26:14 <Joshue108> q?
16:26:17 <Mike_Elledge> MP: Could not find anything that was really useful. Including from industry. Can make measurement, but not always useful.
16:26:24 <Joshue108> ack me
16:26:25 <Mike_Elledge> AK: Comments for Kathy?
16:27:30 <Mike_Elledge> JO: In general get positive feedback from notes. Liked that it is short and useful. Welcome. When is next version, wanted more information, high interest in getting more out.
16:27:43 <Mike_Elledge> Oops that was Kathy.
16:28:11 <Mike_Elledge> JO: Good to get a sense of conference. Thanks for that.
16:28:55 <Mike_Elledge> AK: One last agenda item. Asked about TPAC and whether we will meet in Japan. What is liklihood ppl can attend.
16:29:05 <Mike_Elledge> ME: Won't be able to.
16:29:20 <Mike_Elledge> K: Will be there.
16:29:50 <Joshue108> q?
16:30:02 <Mike_Elledge> AK: Still a question of time and travel budget. But good to think about. Will revisit.
16:30:14 <Joshue108> ack me
16:30:17 <Mike_Elledge> ME: I will carry Katie's baggage if she will pay my way.
16:30:26 <Zakim> -Katie_Haritos-Shea
16:30:31 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
16:30:40 <Zakim> -Kathy_Wahlbin
16:30:43 <Zakim> -cstrobbe
16:30:45 <Zakim> -Moe_Kraft
16:30:45 <Zakim> -Joshue
16:30:45 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
16:30:45 <Zakim> -AWK
16:30:46 <Zakim> -Kenny
16:30:47 <Zakim> -Mike_Pluke
16:30:54 <Zakim> -Loretta
16:31:11 <Mike_Pluke> Mike_Pluke has left #wai-wcag
16:32:16 <Mike_Elledge> trackbot, end meeting
16:32:16 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:32:16 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.617.766.aaaa, AWK, Joshue, Kathy_Wahlbin, Mike_Pluke, Kenny, +1.303.579.aabb, Loretta, Marc_Johlic, Michael_Cooper, So_Vang,
16:32:19 <Zakim> ... +1.313.390.aacc, Mike_Elledge, Katie_Haritos-Shea, +1.617.577.aadd, Moe_Kraft, James_Nurthen, cstrobbe
16:32:24 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:32:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-wai-wcag-minutes.html trackbot
16:32:25 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:32:25 <RRSAgent> I see no action items