15:00:15 RRSAgent has joined #touchevents 15:00:16 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-touchevents-irc 15:00:22 zakim, this will be RWC_PEWG 15:00:22 ok, rbyers, I see RWC_PEWG()11:00AM already started 15:00:28 Meeting: Touch Events Community Group 15:01:00 +[Microsoft] 15:01:01 +Scott_Gonzalez 15:01:22 + +1.519.725.aabb 15:01:28 Zakim, aabb is me 15:01:28 +rbyers; got it 15:02:24 +[Microsoft.a] 15:03:01 teddin has joined #touchevents 15:03:05 Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-touchevents/2015Mar/0008.html 15:04:01 jrossi2 has joined #touchevents 15:04:13 + +1.519.513.aacc 15:04:15 oops I was in the wrong room 15:04:56 Zakim, aacc is Chrome Team 15:04:56 I don't understand 'aacc is Chrome Team', tdresser 15:05:04 Present: Asir, Jacob, Rick, Scott, Tim, Mustaq 15:05:13 Zakim, aacc is Chrome_Team 15:05:13 +Chrome_Team; got it 15:05:23 Scribe: Tim_Dresser 15:05:29 ScribeNick: tdresser 15:06:07 Ted is here - having audio issues right now. 15:06:13 Present+: Ted 15:07:09 Topic: mouseenter/mouseleave issues 15:07:10 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-touchevents/2015Mar/0006.html 15:07:33 rbyers: I asked some more detailed questions to Jacob last week on the list, have you had a chance to read over this? 15:07:51 rbyers: High level, we should discuss what it means for IE to support the webkit style mouse event model. 15:08:26 jrossi: We defer the mouse events that happen normally, until after touchend. 15:08:59 jrossi: We have a bug currently that the default actions aren't wired up completely correctly. 15:09:08 jrossi: We'll have a build out soon with this behind a flag. 15:09:50 jrossi: We may also need to alter the behavior of hover. 15:10:00 rbyers: Are you currently setting hover when you fire mouseenter? 15:10:09 jrossi: No, we broke the connection between hover and enter and leave. 15:10:49 jrossi: Hover happens at the regular time (at pointer-enter and pointer-leave), but we defer the mouse events. 15:11:17 rbyers: That makes sense. The pointer events are the primary API, and the mouse events are there for legacy. 15:11:45 jrossi: The interop of hover and mouse events for touch is super broken anyways, so I don't think it's important that the connection between mouse events and hover is very valuable. 15:12:15 rbyers: That sounds good. 15:12:44 jrossi: The next step for me is to answer rbyers' questions from the thread after talking it over with other Microsoft folks. 15:13:17 rbyers: We could spend some time talking about ? either here or at the CSS working group. 15:14:00 s/?/:active and :hover semantics for touch 15:14:41 mustaq: I was comparing Firefox and Chrome, and our hover and active behavior for tap appears the same. 15:14:58 mustaq: They are sending enter and leave, but in terms of hover and active, they behave the same. 15:15:16 rbyers: We should make sure we have a Firefox person around when we discuss this. 15:15:54 rbyers: The other issue is finding examples of sites that are broken. jrossi, can you send us the list of sites that break if you send enter/leave on tap? 15:16:10 jrossi: We don't have much of a list, Netflix was broken, but it's fixed now. 15:16:25 jrossi: There is sample code up on StackOverflow. 15:16:51 rbyers: Good - so this issue doesn't show up anywhere on Netflix anymore? 15:16:54 jrossi: Correct. 15:17:02 rbyers: Our next step is to land it, and see what we break. 15:17:12 Topic: Identifying mouse events derived from touch 15:17:35 I sent 15:17:35 my InputDevice design sketch 15:17:35 to www-dom today. 15:18:07 rbyers: Any thoughts? 15:18:14 jrossi: I like it, at least as a starting point. 15:18:29 rbyers: We should justify every property carefully, but establishing a pattern feels correct. 15:18:46 jrossi: We tried to go down this road with pointer events, but we didn't have enough experience at that point. 15:19:20 jrossi: There was a discussion about this at one point on the pointer events list. In the first version of pointer events, we used a numeric enum, which was bad for extensibility. 15:19:28 jrossi: If we just use strings, we can avoid that problem. 15:20:05 jrossi: We might want to have a registry somewhere that isn't part of the spec, that's easily updateable. 15:20:18 jrossi: I'd put Kinect in the list, maybe HoloLens. 15:20:32 rbyers: We could just have a page on the pointer events wiki. 15:20:53 jrossi: I think there should be a set of obvious ones in the spec, and then point to a wiki for the less standard ones. 15:21:01 rbyers: And over time we could move more things into the spec. 15:21:30 jrossi: Can you enumerate the list of available values for a string enum? 15:21:39 rbyers: I don't think so. 15:22:20 rbyers: If you try to pass a string that isn't valid, it throws an exception. 15:23:21 rbyers: If we want to allow javascript to add input types, we should use a string over a string enum. 15:23:47 rbyers: In my current proposal, you can't create new input devices. 15:24:25 jrossi: Could you just pass in an object that looks like an InputDevice into the constructor? 15:24:41 rbyers: In WebIDL, I don't think so. 15:24:56 rbyers: The constructor for UIEvent would by default leave the InputDevice null. 15:25:13 rbyers: We might want a way for script to be able to create a new InputDevice. 15:25:24 rbyers: I'll add a section to my doc calling out each of these issues. 15:25:46 rbyers: We could tackle parts of this without adding a constructor. 15:25:56 jrossi: I think we should add a constructor from the beginning. 15:26:11 rbyers: Ok, I'll allow passing an InputDevice to the UIEvent constructor, and allow constructing an InputDevice. 15:26:27 rbyers: Once we have that, we can think about custom device classes. 15:26:58 rbyers: What about pointer granularity? Should that be extensible? Should you be able to define a new granularity other than fine or coarse? 15:27:36 jrossi: This becomes more of a general question. Couldn't the constructor just take strings for these properties? 15:28:00 rbyers: This eliminates opportunities for binding languages other than javascript. 15:28:11 rbyers: It could hurt things like typescript. 15:28:40 rbyers: The choices are clear. You can define an enum with the standard values. Then your api can take and return an instance of that enum, or it can take a DOM string. 15:28:51 jrossi: That makes sense. 15:29:08 rbyers: I'll focus on the www-dom thread, and try to get some consensus there. 15:29:08 Topic: AOB 15:32:59 rbyers: Should we make hover/active the focus of our next call? 15:33:15 jrossi: I'll have to do some digging before I can have a productive conversation about that. 15:33:23 rbyers: We'll say that's blocked on you then. 15:33:27 -[Microsoft.a] 15:33:29 -rbyers 15:33:31 -[Microsoft] 15:33:33 -Chrome_Team 15:33:38 -Scott_Gonzalez 15:34:06 - +1.571.426.aaaa 15:34:08 RWC_PEWG()11:00AM has ended 15:34:08 Attendees were +1.571.426.aaaa, [Microsoft], Scott_Gonzalez, +1.519.725.aabb, rbyers, +1.519.513.aacc, Chrome_Team 15:34:41 teddin has joined #touchevents 15:34:55 RRSAgent, make log Public 15:35:04 RRSAgent, make minutes 15:35:04 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-touchevents-minutes.html rbyers 15:46:25 Regrets: Patrick 15:46:29 RRSAgent, make minutes 15:46:29 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-touchevents-minutes.html rbyers 15:47:18 Chair: rbyers 15:47:45 RRSAgent, make minutes 15:47:45 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-touchevents-minutes.html rbyers 15:54:26 Sorry I missed the meeting. :( 16:10:07 teddin has left #touchevents 17:24:42 Zakim has left #touchevents