16:00:47 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #social
16:00:47 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-social-irc
16:00:49 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:00:49 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #social
16:00:51 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SOCL
16:00:51 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM scheduled to start in 60 minutes
16:00:52 <trackbot> Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
16:00:52 <trackbot> Date: 10 March 2015
16:00:55 <rhiaro> Well, alright, blogposts work too
16:01:08 <tantek> an hour in advance? ;)
16:02:02 <rhiaro> and for those not priviledged enough to be able to set up a blog, lengthy facebook status updates
16:03:02 <tantek> rhiaro: in fact, for public email list posts, better to blog them first on your own domain, and then just POSSE them to the email list. http://indiewebcamp.com/email_list#POSSE_to_an_email_list
16:03:35 <rhiaro> that's a good idea
16:03:45 <tantek> rhiaro: it's just as easy to setup a personal withknown.com site as it is a FB sign-in. and withknown won't even force you to use your "real name" or add a phone number or any of that other privacy invasive stuff
16:04:16 <tantek> with the current withknown.com we have crossed the "onboarding" barrier as compared to any silo
16:04:19 <rhiaro> hey, you know I'm sold on it - but my non-tech friends don't believe me
16:04:27 <rhiaro> working on it though!
16:05:01 <tantek> rhiaro: have them try signing up on withknown.com on their mobile device (smartphone, iPad etc.) - it's quite slick
16:05:12 <rhiaro> having said that, most of my non-tech friends also can't handle email reply-all, they're entirely slaves to facebook
16:05:13 <tantek> pretty much as simple as tumblr
16:05:30 <tantek> I'm not sure anyone knows how to properly "handle" email reply-all
16:05:36 <tantek> it's a fundamentally broken feature
16:06:15 <rhiaro> is there a reader/aggregator for known?
16:11:49 <tantek> rhiaro: the preposition you're looking for is "in", not "for"
16:11:57 <AnnB> what, then, is your preferred "full" communication system, Tantek? ... IRC with a logging tool, blog posts, and personal web site?
16:12:15 <rhiaro> s/for/in
16:12:28 <tantek> the notion of a separate reader/aggregator is an out of date UI concept dating back to legacy feed file readers of the early 2000s, and is largely obsolete / abandoned compared to integrated reading/posting UIs of modern social networks
16:12:50 <rhiaro> I meant is there a way to pick up the known posts of everyone you care to follow in one place?
16:13:08 <tantek> AnnB - my comms systems are continuously evolving for efficiency
16:13:29 <AnnB> I gather
16:13:39 <tantek> currently IRC is the best for discussions, even better with logging and bots.
16:13:59 <AnnB> I appreciate you seek efficiencies and new paths, but I am not quite there with you yet
16:14:07 <tantek> personal site notes are a good way to post a few sentences, and blog posts are better for a few paragraphs or more.
16:14:32 <AnnB> I like IRC a lot for sort of short discussions (as Amy said above), but not for longer more thoughtful discussion
16:14:36 <AnnB> for me, reading everyone's blog posts is unrealistic
16:14:40 <AnnB> not into it at all
16:14:44 <tantek> AnnB, the best way to force the pursuit of efficiencies is to focus on building/creating rather than chatting/talking/discussing.
16:15:09 <tantek> whereas those that focus on discussions will stay stuck in whatever discussion app/forum/software/site they get comfortable with
16:15:18 <hhalpin> Or "imaginary" software :)
16:15:24 <AnnB> I understand the spirit of that statement, and to some extent applaud .. but also disagree in some ways
16:15:25 <tantek> not realizing that comms are a means, not an ends
16:15:29 <hhalpin> with purported and non-existent users
16:15:34 <hhalpin> which is typically what we have in some WGs.
16:15:51 <AnnB> seems self-centered to me
16:15:51 <tantek> hhalpin, it's ok, implementers have learned ot ignore those who talk about imaginary software
16:15:57 <hhalpin> These sorts of efforts should be "research" and not in a standards bodies.
16:16:06 <rhiaro> hhalpin, do you know what format the opensocial blog posts are in? I could probably look at getting them online at some point
16:16:18 <hhalpin> They are in a SQL drupal setup. Email greg for a copy
16:16:30 <tantek> rhiaro: ironic that the opensocial blog p���X were never available themselves via any form of opensocial API
16:16:30 <rhiaro> okay!
16:16:37 <tantek> perfect example of a failure to selfdogfood
16:17:05 <rhiaro> I don't know much about open social
16:17:17 <tantek> if you're not using your own "social" system/API/platform for your own notes and blog posts, you're doing it wrong, and no one should pay any attention to your social system/API/platform
16:17:32 <tantek> rhiaro: and now that they and W3C broke all the opensocial permalinks, no one else does either
16:17:33 <AnnB> but, Tantek, not all of us are geeks
16:17:34 <elf-pavlik> our chance to selfdogfood - https://www.w3.org/community/webzakim/
16:17:44 <AnnB> not all of us are going to build our own system ..
16:17:46 <tantek> AnnB - that's a misframed misconception
16:17:51 <AnnB> oh well
16:17:54 <tantek> AnnB - from Kindergarten, we are all taught to be creatives
16:18:06 <AnnB> I'd say I'm plenty creative
16:18:15 <tantek> it is society and limiting statements like "not all of us are geeks" that destroy people's creative expression
16:18:26 <tantek> so I categorically reject such statements
16:18:31 <AnnB> but not necessarily in YOUR specific ways ..
16:18:34 <tantek> because they are (self)-limiting and unproductive
16:18:35 <AnnB> I think you're great
16:18:49 <AnnB> but am I wrong if I don't do things your way
16:18:53 <AnnB> ?
16:19:02 <AnnB> that's how those statements come across
16:19:05 <AnnB> to me
16:19:24 <hhalpin> Tantek, at some point see emails
16:19:35 <hhalpin> re microformat
16:19:46 <hhalpin> and W3C RFF.
16:19:50 <tantek> AnnB - it's not my way
16:19:54 <tantek> it's a common expression
16:20:00 <tantek> the difference between doers/builders and talkers
16:20:05 <tantek> I didn't make that up\
16:20:09 <tantek> I only adopted it
16:21:15 <tantek> hhalpin - are there any emails from actual implementers that I should look at? or is it mostly watercooler whining? (what I remember from FedSocWebIG list etc.)
16:21:22 <AnnB> this may be where the brevity of IRC fails me ... I find this thread to be kind of distressing and depressing
16:21:31 <hhalpin> No, its from our legal staff
16:21:42 <hhalpin> Re the suitability of OWFa licensing and W3C RFF
16:22:15 <hhalpin> I'm signing off on this conversation re microformats as a normative reference, it's gone up to TimBL :)
16:22:49 <hhalpin> Re "self-dog-fooding", W3C is interested in members implementing products as well, so AnnB, if Boeing supports the specs, I think that would be great
16:23:46 <AnnB> I'm all for self-dog-fooding, for those who have the skills and the ya-yas to do it
16:24:14 <AnnB> I'm just saying that the vast majority of the world doesn't ... and shouldn't be dissed for not
16:24:43 <AnnB> I'm in awe of the effort the IndieWeb folks make, actually
16:24:47 <rhiaro> AnnB, I was about to go on to list the advantages I see to email, but you know what, maybe I'll write a blog post about it ;)
16:24:49 <tantek> AnnB - the dissing is not for lack of selfdogfooding, it is for open-ended and unrealistic complex demands
16:25:08 <tantek> selfdogfooding is merely one way that anyone can see the flaws is most demands
16:25:25 <AnnB> blog posts generally just don't work for me ... for various reasons
16:26:15 <tantek> AnnB, have you tried withknown.com ?
16:26:17 <AnnB> not totally sure what you mean, Tantek, re: "open-ended and unrealistic complex demands" ... I just want to communicate with people and discuss things
16:26:23 <AnnB> which is darn hard
16:26:28 <AnnB> no
16:26:31 <tantek> AnnB - most of the user stories are open-ended and unrealistic complex demands
16:26:32 <AnnB> but I'll go look
16:26:37 <tantek> by non-implementers
16:26:52 <AnnB> oh, you're ref'ing user stories
16:27:06 <tantek> and past mailling list posts / threads
16:27:11 <tantek> which are *even worse*
16:27:12 <AnnB> I guess that's the classic issue with "users" ... they're danged humans!
16:27:16 <rhiaro> it *is* useful to have information pushed to you (perhaps by people you don't know) rather than having to seek it out and follow it yourself
16:27:23 <AnnB> with all their myriad complexities
16:27:25 <tantek> AnnB - you've seen the car designed by Homer Simpson?
16:27:31 <tantek> That's the problem we're talking about here
16:27:31 <AnnB> no
16:27:33 <rhiaro> which email is good for until we solve The Discovery Problem
16:27:52 <tantek> rhiaro no that's called spam (information pushed to you)
16:28:01 <tantek> (by people you don't know)
16:28:37 <rhiaro> only if you don't want it
16:29:01 <rhiaro> I pick up lots of new and interesting information from mailing lists, sent by people I don't know
16:29:04 <tantek> rhiaro perhaps 90% of email I receive is stuff I don't want nor need
16:29:10 <rhiaro> Probably that's how I found out about this group
16:29:16 <tantek> opportunity cost for far more intersting things
16:29:31 <AnnB> so what's your vision, Tantek .. use withknown.com to post all my thoughts, pics, whatever? .. then what?
16:29:44 <tantek> AnnB - it's an improvement on the current state
16:29:55 <AnnB> of Facebook or ...???
16:29:59 <tantek> the way you figure out "then what?" is to take incremental steps forward
16:30:06 <tantek> with each step forward, the next step becomes more clear
16:30:15 <tantek> if you take no steps forward you will never figure out "then what?"
16:30:15 <AnnB> I'm all for exploration and experimentation
16:30:24 <tantek> then go for it!
16:30:45 <rhiaro> AnnB, are you staying for indiewebcamp after the f2f? :)
16:30:51 <AnnB> at the same time, I'm trying to figure out how to have discussions with a group of people (eg this one) in something more than IRC bits
16:31:06 <AnnB> Yes!  but only until ~4pm Thurs
16:31:13 <AnnB> I'm really looking forward to it
16:31:45 <rhiaro> awesome :D
16:32:12 <AnnB> I understand your selfdogfood, etc efforts, Tantek ...
16:32:30 <AnnB> .. I'm still trying to understand how you think a group of people should discuss stuff
16:32:32 <tantek> AnnB - I hate to say it, but you can't really understand selfdogfooding until you start doing it.
16:32:35 <tantek> That's the point.
16:32:42 <AnnB> ... in more than brief IRC bits
16:32:46 <AnnB> ...??
16:32:50 <tantek> You may *think* you understand, but you don't. Just like you can't understand riding a bicycle until you try riding one.
16:32:50 <AnnB> true on trying
16:33:29 <AdamB> in this context, what is selfdogfooding?
16:33:37 <AdamB> writing code to host my own site?
16:33:39 <tantek> AnnB - indiewebcamp community has been built rapidly and created amazing simple protocols and formats WITHOUT ANY EMAIL LIST
16:33:39 <tantek> that's the point
16:33:43 <tantek> we have found the enemy, and the enemy is the medium of email, which encourages talkers instead of doers.
16:33:52 <AdamB> or using a service that does has already written the code?
16:34:03 <AnnB> I see this with my niece, too
16:34:05 <tantek> AdamB LMGTFY
16:34:06 <rhiaro> tantek, I see a Reader and Notifications listed under 'itches' for Known, so that's a pretty big thing missing for people used to a facebook (etc) feed
16:34:16 <tantek> rhiaro: agreed
16:35:03 <AnnB> regardless, it sounds like you are communicating great with a highly selective group of geeks
16:35:07 <tantek> http://indiewebcamp.com/selfdogfood
16:35:22 <AnnB> ... how do you communicate with the rest of the world?  or do you?
16:35:30 <tantek> AnnB - no - we are communicating with those that prioritize creating over talking.
16:35:43 <AnnB> I see that
16:35:50 <tantek> anyone can choose to make that their priority
16:36:00 <tantek> but most apparently choose not to, for whatever reason
16:36:09 <AnnB> but that sounds like you're saying you do not communicate with others
16:36:24 <AdamB> i think that definition is unrealistic for the world .... 99% of people can not build their own creations
16:36:33 <AnnB> "my/our way or the highway" is how that comes across
16:36:34 <tantek> AnnB, no it is a matter of prioritization and maximizing signal to noise ratio.
16:36:56 <tantek> AdamB - see above about Kindergarten vs. later socialization.
16:37:11 <tantek> AnnB - it doesn't matter, talkers on email lists will never build anything
16:37:23 <tantek> so the question is, do you want tools you can use? or do you want endless conversations about future tools?"
16:37:56 <AnnB> hmm .. maybe the gap here is that I was thinking about general discussion adn communication, and you're talking about "building"
16:38:05 <tantek> AnnB - without building, there are no tools.
16:38:17 <rhiaro> for indieweb this makes sense, but I think not so much for this group - to some extent, sure, but there are also a lot of people participating who *have* a lot of experience *building* and *doing* in earlier years, who are maybe doing something else right now without so much capacity to be on the bleeding edge, but who still have valuable contributions to make, and can do so most easily via email
16:38:45 <tantek> rhiaro: I question "valuable contributions" in the context of social web if they're not actually *doing it* on the social web.
16:38:53 <Augier> Augier has joined #social
16:39:08 <rhiaro> the valuable contributions could be finding out what doesn't work
16:39:08 <tantek> which is why the email list is ignorable if you're a builder
16:39:15 <rhiaro> what hasn't worked in the past
16:39:22 <tantek> rhiaro: the only you find out what doesn't work, is by building it, and finding its limitations
16:39:29 <tantek> otherwise it's all handwaving talk
16:39:37 <rhiaro> surely it's useful to learn from other peoples' experiences on that front?
16:39:38 <tantek> the only *way you find out...
16:39:45 <rhiaro> rather than reinventing the misshappen wheel over and over
16:39:47 <tantek> rhiaro: actually, most of the time no
16:39:56 <tantek> sometimes we succeed because we don't know that we can fail
16:40:02 <Loqi> Shudson made 1 edit to [[Socialwg/2015-03-10]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=82751&oldid=82745
16:40:28 <tantek> rhiaro: it's also how simpler things get invented, by completely ignoring the complex overdesign crap of the past
16:40:31 <rhiaro> there's a balance between being held back by other peoples' failures, and failing to stand on their shoulders to progress further
16:40:32 <AdamB> tantek: are you talking about average people with your "builders" or about people in the tech/standards space ?
16:40:50 <tantek> AdamB - I'm talking about all creatives. Did you Google selfdogfood yet?
16:41:01 <AdamB> yep
16:41:02 <tantek> because that's certainly a tool that average people use
16:41:48 <tantek> alright, enough meta-talk, I'm going to work on action 26 a bit
16:41:50 <tantek> Action 26
16:41:56 <tantek> Issue 26
16:42:01 <rhiaro> action-26
16:42:01 <trackbot> action-26 -- Tantek Çelik to Review microformats due jan 14, 2015 -- due 2015-01-20 -- OPEN
16:42:01 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/26
16:42:07 <tantek> trackbot, where is your source?
16:42:07 <trackbot> Sorry, tantek, I don't understand 'trackbot, where is your source?'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
16:42:23 <tantek> trackbot, where do we submit pull requests for you?
16:42:23 <trackbot> Sorry, tantek, I don't understand 'trackbot, where do we submit pull requests for you?'. Please refer to <http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc> for help.
16:43:04 <tantek> AnnB: try setting up a withknown.com and then we can more concrete conversations about this stuff.
16:43:09 <AnnB> this is both a fascinating and a frustrating thread ... I feel like we're going around and around
16:43:31 <AnnB> I look forward to seeing you in person next week!
16:43:39 <tantek> AnnB - exactly as most email lists do - go around and around, and don't actually create or build anything, and why implementers are learning to ignore them.
16:43:40 <AnnB> maybe then I'll understand
16:43:45 <tantek> AnnB I look forward to seeing your withknown.com!
16:43:49 <AnnB> OR maybe you'll consider my points
16:43:53 <AnnB> (dreaming .. )
16:44:02 <tantek> AnnB - make your points on a blog post on your withknown.com and send me the URL
16:44:14 <elf-pavlik> dreaming++
16:44:16 <Loqi> dreaming has 1 karma
16:44:19 <AdamB> email the url to the wg group ;)
16:44:32 <tantek> or paste it in IRC since it's only one line ;)
16:44:38 <AnnB> oh tantek, you are dedicated to your version of the truth ... few have your passion
16:44:49 <tantek> AnnB - it's not my vision, it predates me
16:44:55 <tantek> do, don't just chat
16:45:28 <AnnB> I'm still trying to understand how you choose to communicate about 'normal' stuff that's not about 'building'
16:45:40 <AnnB> brb
16:49:25 <tantek> ok slowly making progress on action-26
16:54:41 <tilgovi> tilgovi has joined #social
16:54:42 <tantek> opened a github issue on AS spec to track specifics: https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/83
16:54:53 <tantek> this is going to take a lot of pull requests to fix
16:54:53 <elf-pavlik> tantek++
16:54:56 <Loqi> tantek has 161 karma
16:55:32 <SimonTennant1> SimonTennant1 has joined #social
16:58:43 <pfefferle_> pfefferle_ has joined #social
16:59:29 <Arnaud> elf, that only works when the meeting has been started
16:59:42 <Zakim> T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has now started
16:59:49 <Zakim> + +1.971.275.aaaa
16:59:55 <aaronpk> Zakim: aaaa is aaronpk
16:59:56 <Zakim> +AdamB
16:59:59 <aaronpk> Zakim, aaaa is aaronpk
16:59:59 <Zakim> +aaronpk; got it
17:00:04 <aaronpk> ugh who decided on comma syntax
17:00:11 <Arnaud> trackbot, start meeting
17:00:13 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
17:00:15 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SOCL
17:00:15 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM scheduled to start now
17:00:16 <trackbot> Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
17:00:16 <trackbot> Date: 10 March 2015
17:00:36 <tantek> hmm - Zakim is not answering again
17:00:41 <Arnaud> zakim, who's on the phone?
17:00:41 <Zakim> I notice T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM has restarted
17:00:42 <Zakim> On the phone I see aaronpk, AdamB, Arnaud
17:00:42 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:00:44 <Zakim> + +1.401.305.aabb
17:00:47 <tantek> lol restarted
17:00:59 <ben_thatmustbeme> Zakim, aabb is me
17:00:59 <Zakim> +ben_thatmustbeme; got it
17:01:01 <Zakim> +??P5
17:01:03 <ben_thatmustbeme> Zakim, mute me
17:01:03 <Zakim> ben_thatmustbeme should now be muted
17:01:05 <aaronpk> wow so much noise
17:01:14 <Zakim> -??P5
17:01:19 <Zakim> +bblfish
17:01:35 <Zakim> +Lloyd_Fassett
17:02:01 <Zakim> +Ann
17:02:10 <aaronpk> weird, my phone is on mute
17:02:22 <Zakim> +??P7
17:02:24 <tantek> zakim, ??p7 is me
17:02:24 <Zakim> +tantek; got it
17:02:39 <ben_thatmustbeme> aarokpk, could be the line, I don't trust phone mutes
17:03:01 <aaronpk> elf-pavlik: nope
17:03:10 <Zakim> +??P9
17:03:17 <bill-looby> bill-looby has joined #social
17:03:21 <Lloyd_Fassett> Lloyd_Fassett has joined #social
17:03:21 <AnnB> elf, do you hear anything besides music?
17:03:32 <AnnB> w3c doesn't usually have music when on hold
17:03:39 <tantek> how would you describe the music?
17:03:49 <AnnB> (can you imagine the discussions on which music to play?)
17:03:53 <aaronpk> AnnB++
17:03:56 <Loqi> AnnB has 6 karma
17:04:02 <AnnB> haha
17:04:06 <Zakim> +??P10
17:04:09 <rhiaro> Zakim, ??P10 is me
17:04:09 <Zakim> +rhiaro; got it
17:04:13 <Lloyd_Fassett> music: the first interoperable social standard
17:04:27 <AnnB> Lloyd ++
17:04:35 <Zakim> +Sandro
17:04:45 <bill-looby> Zakim, ??P9 is me
17:04:45 <Zakim> +bill-looby; got it
17:04:48 <ben_thatmustbeme> and the snow is melting up here
17:04:54 <elf-pavlik> chair: tantek
17:05:05 <ben_thatmustbeme> its been a beautiful 40
17:05:30 <elf-pavlik> agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-03-10
17:05:35 <AnnB> yak trax .. fantastic for ice
17:05:46 <tantek> Zakim, who is here?
17:05:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see aaronpk, AdamB, Arnaud, elf-pavlik, ben_thatmustbeme (muted), bblfish, Lloyd_Fassett, Ann, tantek, bill-looby, rhiaro (muted), Sandro
17:05:49 <Zakim> On IRC I see Lloyd_Fassett, bill-looby, pfefferle, SimonTennant1, Zakim, RRSAgent, hhalpin, tantek, AdamB, AnnB, Arnaud, bblfish, elf-pavlik, the_frey, shepazu, Loqi, nickstenn,
17:05:49 <Zakim> ... melvster, wilkie, aaronpk, KevinMarks, oshepherd, wseltzer, ElijahLynn, ben_thatmustbeme, mattl, JakeHart, bret, dwhly, bigbluehat, rhiaro, rektide, trackbot
17:06:04 <Zakim> +??P12
17:06:13 <bret> Zakim, ??P12 is me
17:06:13 <Zakim> +bret; got it
17:06:19 <bret> Zakim, mute me
17:06:19 <Zakim> bret should now be muted
17:06:40 <SimonTennant1> Hi AnnB
17:06:41 <hhalpin> trackbot, start meeting
17:06:43 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
17:06:45 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be SOCL
17:06:45 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see T&S_SOCWG()1:00PM scheduled to start 6 minutes ago
17:06:46 <trackbot> Meeting: Social Web Working Group Teleconference
17:06:46 <trackbot> Date: 10 March 2015
17:06:54 <tantek> scribenick: aaronpk
17:06:58 <elf-pavlik> chair: tantek
17:06:59 <elf-pavlik> agenda: https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-03-10
17:07:06 <hhalpin> Zakim, code?
17:07:06 <Zakim> the conference code is 7625 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), hhalpin
17:07:20 <aaronpk> tantek: next week there is no telcon because of f2f
17:07:28 <aaronpk> ... any objections to telcon for the week after?
17:07:38 <aaronpk> ... next telcon is schedule for the 24th as usual unless there are any objections
17:07:57 <aaronpk> TOPIC: minutes from last week
17:08:09 <aaronpk> tantek: any problems/suggestions for the minutes?
17:08:14 <ben_thatmustbeme> +1
17:08:16 <aaronpk> ... anyone want to expliclty express support?
17:08:19 <elf-pavlik> +1
17:08:27 <tantek> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-03-03-minutes
17:08:43 <aaronpk> ... not hearing objections and some support, declare minutes approved
17:08:45 <aaronpk> TOPIC: f2f meeting
17:08:53 <aaronpk> tantek: please review the f2f wiki page
17:08:56 <elf-pavlik> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-03-17
17:09:13 <aaronpk> ... lots of description there for how to get to the venue
17:09:19 <aaronpk> ... looks li ke 13 participants and 3 additional observers
17:09:34 <aaronpk> ... in particular a couple observers fro mthe annotations WG, hope to get good cross-collaboration
17:09:40 <aaronpk> ... if you have specific items for the agenda, feel free to add them
17:09:51 <aaronpk> ... if you think you know what larger topic they fall under add them as a sublist
17:10:00 <aaronpk> ... please sign your agenda item so we know who is responsible for the discussion
17:10:08 <aaronpk> ... sandro, did you have any other suggestions?
17:10:13 <jasnell> jasnell has joined #social
17:10:32 <elf-pavlik> sandro++
17:10:32 <aaronpk> Arnaud: food is provided by sandro, courtesy of a grant by ___
17:10:33 <Loqi> sandro has 1 karma
17:10:39 <AdamB> sandro++
17:10:41 <Loqi> sandro has 2 karma
17:10:52 <Arnaud> s/___/QCRI/
17:10:53 <aaronpk> tantek: meeting is at 9am, are we feeding ourselves for breakfast?
17:10:57 <jasnell> Zakim mute me
17:11:05 <aaronpk> sandro: we could order a fruit platter and coffee
17:11:16 <jasnell> Zakim, mute me
17:11:16 <Zakim> sorry, jasnell, I don't know what conference this is
17:11:16 <aaronpk> tantek: that would be a great minimum viable breakfast, let's do that and set it at 8:30
17:11:18 <Loqi> minimumviablebreakfast has 1 karma
17:11:28 <bret> lol
17:11:37 <aaronpk> sandro: i'll make sure everything is ready at 8
17:11:49 <aaronpk> AnnB: would be hlepful if people get there at 8:30 to start setting up their stuff
17:12:24 <hhalpin> +1 food from Sandro's grant!!
17:12:27 <aaronpk> tantek: great, looking forward to seeing everyone at 8:30, dress warmly!
17:13:05 <elf-pavlik> topic: Tracking of Actions and Issues
17:13:08 <aaronpk> TOPIC: open issues
17:13:25 <hhalpin> q+
17:13:31 <aaronpk> tantek: will open to the floor to address any open issues
17:13:36 <elf-pavlik> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/pendingreview
17:13:39 <tantek> q+
17:13:39 <tantek> q?
17:13:39 <tantek> ack hhalpin
17:13:43 <elf-pavlik> action-5
17:13:43 <trackbot> action-5 -- Harry Halpin to See if bradfitz did sign on off w3c owf licensing. -- due 2014-11-03 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:13:43 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/5
17:13:45 <aaronpk> hhalpin: i'd like to close out all my actions except for 14
17:13:47 <elf-pavlik> action-12
17:13:47 <trackbot> action-12 -- Harry Halpin to Get clarification on PubSubHubbub -- due 2014-11-28 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:13:48 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/12
17:13:56 <elf-pavlik> action-31
17:13:56 <trackbot> action-31 -- Harry Halpin to Will ask w3c systeam about prospect for archiving osf blog posts and perhaps other content -- due 2015-01-20 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:13:56 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/31
17:14:01 <aaronpk> ... basically brad fitzpatrick has not signed off on w3c licensing so pubsubhubbub cannot be normatively referenced
17:14:04 <bret> is that because google wont let them?
17:14:06 <elf-pavlik> action-40
17:14:06 <trackbot> action-40 -- Harry Halpin to Invite annotations wg -- due 2015-03-03 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:14:06 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/40
17:14:08 <aaronpk> ... we asked explicltly in november and he said no
17:14:12 <tantek> elf-pavlik: please slow down
17:14:13 <aaronpk> ... i don't think it's worth me pursuing
17:14:17 <tantek> let's take them one at a time
17:14:28 <aaronpk> ... w3c said no they won't host the opensocial blog
17:14:30 <tantek> action-5 completed - no agreement to license.
17:14:37 <aaronpk> ... annotations wg we already have people joining
17:14:59 <tantek> action-12 same as action-5
17:15:01 <aaronpk> ... just finished talkign with wendy and tim about normaitve referecning of microformats and schema
17:15:02 <elf-pavlik> hhalpin++
17:15:04 <Loqi> hhalpin has 1 karma
17:15:07 <aaronpk> ... it's on their agenda to have an official response
17:15:23 <ben_thatmustbeme> hhalpin++ that was a lot
17:15:27 <Loqi> hhalpin has 2 karma
17:15:27 <aaronpk> ... tim and whitney will be around during the f2f
17:15:33 <tantek> s/whitney/wendy
17:16:09 <Zakim> -bblfish
17:16:15 <bblfish> bblfish has joined #social
17:16:49 <elf-pavlik> close action-5
17:16:49 <trackbot> Closed action-5.
17:16:49 <hhalpin> Basically, the question over normative references to non-W3C specs
17:16:52 <Zakim> +bblfish
17:16:55 <elf-pavlik> close action-12
17:16:55 <trackbot> Closed action-12.
17:16:56 <hhalpin> for the case of both microformats and schema.org
17:17:02 <hhalpin> is currently being pursued by W3M
17:17:07 <tantek> I asked about whether it had to do with openstand
17:17:08 <elf-pavlik> close action-40
17:17:08 <trackbot> Closed action-40.
17:17:09 <ShaneHudson> ShaneHudson has joined #social
17:17:15 <hhalpin> in particular, the question is compatibility of microformats with OpenStand (should not be a problem)
17:17:20 <elf-pavlik> close action-31
17:17:20 <trackbot> Closed action-31.
17:17:28 <hhalpin> but there may be a legal issue around patent non-asserts (OWFa) and W3C royalty-free
17:17:34 <hhalpin> I think Wendy will give that some cycles
17:17:45 <hhalpin> I am not a lawyer so I can't answer that type of question.
17:17:51 <elf-pavlik> q+ re: action-34 add explaination to the spec about multiple serializations used in examples
17:19:24 <ben_thatmustbeme> tantek: loop me in specifically on any discussion of Microformats licensing, as i specifically discussed that with Mozilla legal
17:19:30 <hhalpin> Basically, my non-legal opinion is OWFa seems in same space as Note Well from IETF
17:19:40 <hhalpin> and thus should probably be OK (it would *not* be OK if there was no patent commits)
17:19:47 <hhalpin> but I'm not a lawyer
17:19:59 <aaronpk> tantek: I think the issue harry notices is when w3c can and should reference things developed outside the w3c
17:20:02 <hhalpin> so I think looping in Mozilla legal with Wendy Seltzer and W3C may be a good idea
17:20:02 <Loqi> Alehors made 4 edits to [[Socialwg/2015-03-17]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=82756&oldid=82749
17:20:19 <aaronpk> ... it means that each individual WG has to go through this and ask these questions
17:20:29 <aaronpk> ... i'm really thankful to harry for going through it
17:20:31 <elf-pavlik> hhalpin++
17:20:34 <Loqi> hhalpin has 3 karma
17:20:48 <aaronpk> ... it's important for a w3c grouip to be able to reference rather than monolithincally bring everything into the w3c
17:20:59 <AnnB> thanks for the overview
17:21:25 <hhalpin> I think here is current policy:
17:21:26 <hhalpin> http://www.w3.org/2013/09/normative-references
17:21:43 <hhalpin> But determining if a single spec matches that is hard sometimes
17:21:46 <bret> dont forget AnnB's q
17:21:52 <AnnB> s/monolithincally /monolithically/
17:21:52 <aaronpk> tantek: so that leaves us with just the one open action for you?
17:22:03 <aaronpk> hhalpin: yes because i don't ersonally work with CONNEG (issue-14)
17:22:12 <AnnB> thanks, bret; Tantek's overview answered it
17:22:12 <aaronpk> ... 14 is open, everything else should be closed
17:22:14 <elf-pavlik> i just closed most of them!
17:22:18 <bret> ah ok
17:22:22 <aaronpk> ... 41 we can say pending review
17:22:26 <elf-pavlik> https://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/pendingreview
17:22:37 <aaronpk> ... do note there is a normative reference policy wich I dropped the link to
17:22:51 <tantek> action-37
17:22:51 <trackbot> action-37 -- Harry Halpin to Put forth the test suite plan using standard js tools https://www.w3.org/social/track/issues/8 -- due 2015-02-10 -- OPEN
17:22:51 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/37
17:22:52 <elf-pavlik> action-37
17:22:52 <trackbot> action-37 -- Harry Halpin to Put forth the test suite plan using standard js tools https://www.w3.org/social/track/issues/8 -- due 2015-02-10 -- OPEN
17:22:52 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/37
17:23:00 <aaronpk> ... the question was how do you test a data format
17:23:27 <aaronpk> ... the answer was effectively the testing team said if you ahve an API that consumes then test the APIs
17:23:42 <aaronpk> ... if we *can* test a precise wayt he w3c appreciates it
17:23:48 <bblfish> q+
17:23:58 <aaronpk> tantek: presumably the way to test s data format is to write a validator, we have that with html and css, was that option considered?
17:24:14 <aaronpk> hhalpin: a validator would be sufficient if there were rules we could put into a w3c validator
17:24:29 <aaronpk> ... the w3c validation team only has so much time, so if we wrote our own validation rules they could do that
17:24:44 <jasnell> +1
17:24:44 <aaronpk> tantek: could you add that option expliciltly? the WG sould consider writing a validator for activitystreams
17:24:45 <elf-pavlik> i can check with Gregg about http://linter.structured-data.org/
17:24:54 <tantek> q+ to discuss what happened with opensocial permalinks
17:24:56 <tantek> q?
17:24:58 <bill-looby> q+
17:25:04 <tantek> ack elf-pavlik
17:25:04 <Zakim> elf-pavlik, you wanted to discuss action-34 add explaination to the spec about multiple serializations used in examples
17:25:17 <elf-pavlik> action-34
17:25:17 <trackbot> action-34 -- Pavlik elf to add explaination to the spec about multiple serializations used in examples -- due 2015-02-10 -- PENDINGREVIEW
17:25:18 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/34
17:25:18 <bret> ya sounds good
17:26:07 <elf-pavlik> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_syntax#Activity_Streams_2.0
17:26:20 <elf-pavlik> will make pull request to AS2.0 spec
17:26:40 <tantek> elf-pavlik, I don't understand how https://www.w3.org/wiki/Mixing_HTML_Data_Formats applies to the spec so I'll await to see your pull request.
17:26:40 <Guest> Guest has joined #social
17:26:42 <Zakim> -aaronpk
17:26:42 <tantek> q?
17:26:43 <bill-looby> Action 15 complete just need someone ro reassign it to me from James Snell (page created here ->https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Social_API/IBM_Connections_API)
17:26:44 <trackbot> Error finding '15'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/users>.
17:27:10 <Zakim> +aaronpk
17:27:12 <tantek> scribenick: AnnB
17:27:13 <elf-pavlik> tantek, please comment directly in W3C tracker, i'll keep it 'Pending Reveiw'
17:27:24 <bblfish> I heard elf very well though he spoke quickly
17:27:25 <AnnB> sure
17:27:25 <tantek> q?
17:27:34 <tantek> ack bblfish
17:28:25 <elf-pavlik> action-37
17:28:25 <trackbot> action-37 -- Harry Halpin to Put forth the test suite plan using standard js tools https://www.w3.org/social/track/issues/8 -- due 2015-02-10 -- OPEN
17:28:25 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/37
17:28:49 <bill-looby> Issue 8 ?
17:28:57 <tantek> issue-8
17:28:57 <trackbot> issue-8 -- Test suite for activity streams 2.0 -- open
17:28:57 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/8
17:30:03 <Loqi> Alehors made 1 edit to [[Socialwg]] https://www.w3.org/wiki/index.php?diff=82757&oldid=82684
17:30:06 <AnnB> bblfish (Henry Story): re: Issue 8 ..
17:30:41 <elf-pavlik> bblfish, can you add note to ISSUE or ACTION in tracker?
17:31:00 <hhalpin> bblfish can add it to tracker
17:31:22 <AnnB> bbfish:  discussion about how to test Activity Streams
17:31:30 <AnnB> ... need to test logic of ontology
17:31:46 <AnnB> ... do classes clash with each other?
17:31:51 <AnnB> ... <other examples>
17:31:59 <AnnB> .. these are things one can created tests for
17:32:09 <elf-pavlik> s/bbfish/bblfish/
17:32:10 <AnnB> Tantek: can you make some of these tests for us?
17:32:16 <elf-pavlik> bblfish, http://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-vocabulary/#non-normative-ontology-definition
17:32:16 <AnnB> bblfish:  yes
17:32:19 <jasnell> no
17:32:32 <jasnell> the owl and json-ld context files have not been published correctly yet
17:32:40 <jasnell> but they are available
17:32:47 <bblfish> Action: testing ontology using ontology testing by verifying that there are no inconsistencies at that level
17:32:47 <trackbot> Error finding 'testing'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/users>.
17:33:02 <bblfish> Action bblfish: testing ontology using ontology testing by verifying that there are no inconsistencies at that level
17:33:03 <trackbot> Created ACTION-45 - Testing ontology using ontology testing by verifying that there are no inconsistencies at that level [on Henry Story - due 2015-03-17].
17:33:09 <jasnell> http://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-vocabulary/activitystreams2.owl
17:33:14 <elf-pavlik> jasnell++
17:33:15 <jasnell> (the owl is really a ttl file)
17:33:17 <Loqi> jasnell has 6 karma
17:33:33 <bblfish> Action-45?
17:33:33 <trackbot> Action-45 -- Henry Story to Testing ontology using ontology testing by verifying that there are no inconsistencies at that level -- due 2015-03-17 -- OPEN
17:33:33 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/45
17:33:39 <tantek> q?
17:33:39 <tantek> q?
17:33:40 <jasnell> http://www.w3.org/TR/activitystreams-core/activitystreams2-context.jsonld
17:33:44 <tantek> ack bill-looby
17:34:07 <elf-pavlik> action-15
17:34:07 <trackbot> action-15 -- James Snell to Expand on IBM Connection's Social APIs -- due 2014-12-02 -- OPEN
17:34:07 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/15
17:34:29 <hhalpin> q+
17:34:30 <AnnB> bill-looby: Action 15 needs to be transferred to me
17:34:35 <jasnell> unfortunately I need to drop now
17:34:38 <Zakim> -Lloyd_Fassett
17:34:41 <jasnell> will be back on next week
17:34:42 <Loqi> I added a countdown for 3/16 10:34am (#5649)
17:34:45 <Zakim> -jasnell
17:35:06 <hhalpin> Where are the links?
17:35:11 <Zakim> +Lloyd_Fassett
17:35:14 <elf-pavlik> trackbot, status
17:35:17 <tantek> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/15
17:35:30 <elf-pavlik> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/users
17:35:44 <hhalpin> if so, email sysreq@w3.org
17:36:06 <elf-pavlik> action-15
17:36:06 <trackbot> action-15 -- Bill Looby to Expand on IBM Connection's Social APIs -- due 2014-12-02 -- OPEN
17:36:06 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/15
17:36:10 <elf-pavlik> done!
17:36:21 <Arnaud> https://www.w3.org/Social/track/users
17:36:26 <hhalpin> he should be automatically added
17:36:41 <hhalpin> maybe there is a database/nickname issue
17:36:50 <elf-pavlik> action-15
17:36:50 <trackbot> action-15 -- James Snell to Expand on IBM Connection's Social APIs -- due 2014-12-02 -- OPEN
17:36:50 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/15
17:36:56 <tantek> https://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/15 still shows James Snell
17:37:10 <AnnB> <confusion about how bill-looby gets added to tracker>
17:37:21 <AnnB> <now think maybe he just needed to log in>
17:37:23 <elf-pavlik> action-15
17:37:23 <trackbot> action-15 -- Bill Looby to Expand on IBM Connection's Social APIs -- due 2014-12-02 -- OPEN
17:37:23 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/15
17:37:30 <elf-pavlik> shows Bill Looby ^
17:37:48 <aaronpk> scribenick: aaronpk
17:37:54 <Zakim> + +1.408.335.aacc
17:37:59 <tantek> q?
17:38:18 <tantek> zakim, aacc is KevinMarks
17:38:18 <Zakim> +KevinMarks; got it
17:38:25 <tantek> ack hhalpin
17:38:27 <sandro> sandro has joined #social
17:38:41 <aaronpk> hhalpin: there was a concern from w3c about lack of participation of opensocial members
17:38:49 <tantek> scribenick: aaronpk
17:39:07 <aaronpk> ... an email to the list clarifying the situation would be helpful
17:39:17 <tantek> is this regarding https://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/29 ?
17:39:19 <aaronpk> ...we realize SAP has left the WG and thus no plans to harmonize the social business product
17:39:39 <aaronpk> ... ibm would like to know if harmonization is planned with other businesses
17:39:41 <tantek> action-29
17:39:41 <trackbot> action-29 -- James Snell to Reach out to open social foundation participants to invite them to join the w3c social web wg -- due 2015-01-20 -- OPEN
17:39:41 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/29
17:39:48 <aaronpk> tantek: is this related to action 29?
17:39:58 <aaronpk> hhalpin: this could be related
17:40:12 <aaronpk> tantek: was there a specific concern you had related to that action?
17:40:30 <aaronpk> hhalpin: yes, is there any existing business you know using the connections API and is there a dependency on LDAP or others?
17:40:37 <tantek> this sounds like a new issue
17:40:48 <tantek> the "is anyone else" part in particular
17:40:52 <aaronpk> ... the the previous APIs were ATOM based so they are not likely to be changed overnight
17:40:58 <bblfish> what is the connections API?
17:40:59 <aaronpk> tantek: i thought i heard what sounds like a new issue
17:41:16 <aaronpk> ... is anyone else besides IBM going to implement or support this API and/or any related APIs?
17:41:20 <hhalpin> Basically, right now we have a number of opensource developers and one social business product (IBM Connections). We need to know if there are any other products in this space and if there are any dependencies between LDP and OpenSocial planned in the future?
17:41:51 <tantek> new issue?
17:42:00 <tantek> what is the tracker-foo for creating a new issue?
17:42:10 <hhalpin> Let's get them involved!
17:42:13 <elf-pavlik> http://www.w3.org/2005/06/tracker/irc
17:42:20 <AdamB> we do plan to implement AS 2.0
17:42:39 <tantek> Issue: We need to know if there are any other products in this space and if there are any dependencies between LDP and OpenSocial planned in the future?
17:42:40 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-18 - We need to know if there are any other products in this space and if there are any dependencies between ldp and opensocial planned in the future?.  Please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/18/edit>.
17:42:59 <bblfish> yes, like which space is it?
17:43:04 <tantek> Action hhalpin: add details to issue-18
17:43:04 <trackbot> Created ACTION-46 - Add details to issue-18 [on Harry Halpin - due 2015-03-17].
17:43:07 <hhalpin> From W3C's perspective, it appears OpenSocial has all dropped out, we'd like to see that situation addressed.
17:43:39 <tantek> q?
17:43:56 <tantek> ack tantek
17:43:56 <Zakim> tantek, you wanted to discuss what happened with opensocial permalinks
17:44:12 <aaronpk> tantek: I thought I heard you say that the w3c decided to not work on them
17:44:20 <bblfish> q?
17:44:20 <aaronpk> hhalpin: correct, the w3c does notwant to support a drupal database
17:44:23 <aaronpk> q?
17:44:23 <tantek> action-30
17:44:23 <trackbot> action-30 -- James Snell to Ask opensocial folks about w3c archiving their blog posts -- due 2015-01-20 -- CLOSED
17:44:23 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/30
17:44:26 <aaronpk> q+
17:44:26 <bret> heh, makes sense
17:44:32 <KevinMarks> can't you wget it all
17:44:46 <aaronpk> hhalpin: if someone wants to re-setup the drupal instance and snapshot the HTML we would be happpy to add links to them
17:44:53 <aaronpk> ... the systems team does not have time to do that
17:45:02 <elf-pavlik> action-31
17:45:02 <trackbot> action-31 -- Harry Halpin to Will ask w3c systeam about prospect for archiving osf blog posts and perhaps other content -- due 2015-01-20 -- CLOSED
17:45:02 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/31
17:45:04 <aaronpk> tantek: w3c has the database...
17:45:07 <aaronpk> hhalpin: no, opensocial has the database
17:45:08 <KevinMarks> who set up the drupal? it was google sites before
17:45:18 <aaronpk> ... contact is on the email list
17:45:31 <aaronpk> tantek: let's stop referring to opensocial since they don't exist. greg wallace has the database
17:45:57 <aaronpk> ___: they don't care because it's too much work to set up the database, but are they willing to host html pages?
17:46:04 <aaronpk> hhalpin: no they don't want to host the html either
17:46:08 <aaronpk> ... they don't want to put any time into this
17:46:18 <aaronpk> tantek: it sounds like your'e saying the systems team doesn't even have a copy of the database
17:46:19 <AnnB> s/___:/bblfish/
17:46:28 <aaronpk> hhalpin: correct, that was not part of the deal, the deal was a domain redirect
17:46:31 <KevinMarks> archive.org seems to have crawled it: https://web.archive.org/web/20140228134017/http://opensocial.org/
17:46:37 <aaronpk> ... systems team claims they do not have the database nor the resources to maintain
17:46:40 <elf-pavlik> can someone who cares about those broken links just follow up on https://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/31 ?
17:46:48 <AnnB> s/bblfish they/bblfish: they/
17:46:59 <aaronpk> tantek: greg is willing to share the database is my understanding
17:47:12 <aaronpk> ... think we could put out an open call for someone to extract teh DB and provide a static snapshot?
17:47:16 <aaronpk> hhalpin: if someone wants to do it that would be great
17:47:25 <KevinMarks> might be easier to unmung it from archive.org?
17:47:26 <elf-pavlik> tantek++
17:47:29 <Loqi> tantek has 162 karma
17:47:29 <aaronpk> tantek: certainly i think it makes sense to put out an open ca
17:47:31 <aaronpk> ll
17:47:45 <Guest> Guest has joined #social
17:47:49 <aaronpk> tantek: i didn't realize putting up a static copy would be so difficult
17:48:03 <aaronpk> hhalpin: you'd have to reinstall drupal, import the SQL database, then snapshot every page
17:48:07 <aaronpk> ... then probably redo any permalinks
17:48:10 <KevinMarks> database antipattern in action
17:48:11 <bret> sounds like a bit of work
17:48:13 <aaronpk> ... it's non-trivial amount of work
17:48:27 <aaronpk> tantek: harry would it be reasonable to make the minor request of you to acquire a copy of the SQL dump from greg?
17:48:34 <aaronpk> hhalpin: i think anyone who wants to do it can contact greg directly
17:48:47 <aaronpk> ... that person can email greg if they want to volunteer
17:48:49 <rhiaro> I'll get a copy of the db dump from Greg
17:48:53 <aaronpk> tantek: do we have any volunteers to acquire a SQL dump?
17:49:00 <rhiaro> And see if I can convert the SQL into something more useful
17:49:02 <KevinMarks> o_O
17:49:08 <elf-pavlik> sandro++
17:49:09 <rhiaro> I'll upload it somewhere ;)
17:49:10 <aaronpk> sandro: and then mail it to the mailing list so that it's in a copy of the acrhives
17:49:11 <Loqi> sandro has 3 karma
17:49:13 <tantek> rhiaro++
17:49:16 <Loqi> rhiaro has 16 karma
17:49:17 <aaronpk> tantek: i can't tell how serious you're being sandro
17:49:19 <ben_thatmustbeme> rhiaro++
17:49:20 <aaronpk> sandro: me either, depends on how big it is
17:49:21 <KevinMarks> rhiaro++
17:49:22 <Loqi> rhiaro has 17 karma
17:49:24 <Loqi> rhiaro has 18 karma
17:49:25 <aaronpk> rhiaro++
17:49:28 <Loqi> rhiaro has 19 karma
17:49:29 <tantek> Action rhiaro: acquire SQLdump of OpenSocial site database and upload somewhere
17:49:29 <trackbot> Created ACTION-47 - Acquire sqldump of opensocial site database and upload somewhere [on Amy Guy - due 2015-03-17].
17:49:47 <aaronpk> tantek: okay that gets us one step closer to not having everything lost forever
17:49:52 <aaronpk> tantek: i had an update on action 26
17:49:54 <aaronpk> action-26
17:49:54 <trackbot> action-26 -- Tantek Çelik to Review microformats due jan 14, 2015 -- due 2015-03-17 -- OPEN
17:49:54 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/26
17:50:12 <aaronpk> ... i've started the apparently lenghty process of going through the examples
17:50:17 <aaronpk> ... i'll be upfront, there are some serious issues with them
17:50:26 <aaronpk> ... i've opene a github issue to start to document the classes of issues i'm encountering
17:50:30 <aaronpk> ...while trying to fix the examples
17:50:38 <the_frey> the_frey has joined #social
17:50:44 <elf-pavlik> PR++
17:50:47 <Loqi> PR has 3 karma
17:50:49 <aaronpk> ... my approach is to document the patterns of problems as well as try to at least issue an incremental pull reuqest to fix a few examples at a time
17:51:00 <aaronpk> ... so that they can be reviewed by james and anyone else so that we're heading in a good direction
17:51:06 <elf-pavlik> i do same for RDFa https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/pull/75
17:51:07 <aaronpk> ... i'd rather do it incrementally instead of 900 at once
17:51:20 <tantek> https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues/83
17:51:21 <elf-pavlik> and did for Turtle https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/pull/70
17:51:22 <aaronpk> ... if anyone else would like to help out with this task i strongly encourage you to jump in and contribute to the detailsi nt he github issue
17:51:25 <tilgovi> tilgovi has joined #social
17:51:28 <KevinMarks> did james make the examples by hand or form the JSON-LD?
17:51:33 <aaronpk> ... because i'd rather make sure we have good analysius of how we are fixing the issues
17:51:40 <aaronpk> AnnB: example sof which?
17:51:46 <aaronpk> tantek: microformats examples in AS 2.0 spec
17:51:49 <elf-pavlik> KevinMarks, JSON-LD normative - microformats just an informative
17:51:49 <bret> AnnB: https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues
17:52:04 <aaronpk> ... i want to be very deliberate about fixing them, hopefully so we can acquire more comunity knowledge about how to do html markup for activity streams
17:52:08 <KevinMarks> that wasn't the question, elf-pavlik
17:52:23 <tantek> q?
17:52:26 <elf-pavlik> KevinMarks, i think by hand from JSON-LD
17:52:27 <tantek> ack aaronpk
17:52:39 <KevinMarks> is there a way to transform the supposedly normative version in LD to the others
17:52:43 <elf-pavlik> q+
17:52:46 <tantek> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-03-10#Activity_Streams_2.0
17:52:46 <aaronpk> tantek: next subject AS 2.0
17:52:53 <elf-pavlik> yes
17:52:56 <aaronpk> TOPIC: Activity Streams 2.0
17:53:00 <elf-pavlik> issue-14
17:53:00 <trackbot> issue-14 -- as:Link adds a lot of complexity, if we keep it we need to clarify consequences of using it instead of as:Object -- open
17:53:00 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/14
17:53:07 <tantek> ack elf-pavlik
17:53:23 <aaronpk> elf-pavlik: AS allows for more values to be the object or link, and i found it complicating the spec a lot
17:53:26 <elf-pavlik> action-42
17:53:26 <trackbot> action-42 -- Pavlik elf to MediaObject - gather options for its social syntax on a wiki page -- due 2015-03-10 -- OPEN
17:53:26 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/42
17:53:43 <aaronpk> ... at this moment, the link is used mostly for images, to say for this image this is the media type and sizes
17:54:04 <aaronpk> ... there are a few intentions of the Link
17:54:10 <aaronpk> ... one is to describe the versions of images you can get for a resources
17:54:29 <aaronpk> ... the second one seems to be -----
17:54:47 <aaronpk> ... my main concern is it is expressing the same information in multiple ways
17:55:14 <aaronpk> ... i want to encourage everyone to consider AS Link and we can discuss in the f2f
17:55:23 <elf-pavlik> seperate
17:55:25 <aaronpk> tantek: okay that convers the first action,
17:55:27 <tantek> action-44
17:55:27 <trackbot> action-44 -- Pavlik elf to Collection - compare AS2 design with LDP, Hydra, Schema.org etc. -- due 2015-03-17 -- OPEN
17:55:27 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/Social/track/actions/44
17:55:37 <elf-pavlik> q?
17:55:38 <elf-pavlik> q+
17:55:44 <tantek> ack elf-pavlik
17:55:51 <aaronpk> elf-pavlik: currently AS defines its own way of doing collections
17:55:59 <aaronpk> ... we also ahve the LD platform and hydra working with collections
17:56:03 <aaronpk> ... i would like to compare all of them
17:56:08 <aaronpk> ... by f2f I will have a more deep comparison
17:56:15 <aaronpk> ... to clarify how to do collections
17:56:47 <aaronpk> ... collections are very important, i think it wuould be good to give it a good thoguht to implement it correctly
17:56:54 <aaronpk> ... i'd encourage everyone to take al ook at the issue about collections
17:57:02 <aaronpk> ... hopefuly  at the f2f we can cdiscuss it
17:57:12 <aaronpk> tantek: you mentioned there is ome discussion about collections in the Hydra group
17:57:15 <aaronpk> ... and you also mentioned implementing.
17:57:24 <aaronpk> ... do you have any references to implemenations of the converstaions
17:57:42 <aaronpk> elf-pavlik: i think harry and sandro can point us to some, i wil check about hydra, i don't know about activitystreams
17:57:57 <aaronpk> tantek: okay, specifically the request is for references to implementations, or even better, a public collection or container post
17:58:12 <elf-pavlik> wilco!
17:58:14 <aaronpk> ... that shows the structure of it. so if you can provide a permalink for how those systems publish a collection that will help with the analysis
17:58:33 <aaronpk> ... as a comparison, i can show you that there are folks in the indieweb community posting collections
17:58:34 <tantek> http://indiewebcamp.com/collection#IndieWeb_Examples
17:58:46 <aaronpk> ... here is a list of permalinks of collection posts
17:58:54 <aaronpk> ... so see ifyou can find similar collection post with the other approaches
17:59:28 <aaronpk> elf-pavlik: maybe someone from indieweb can add examples from the indiewebcamp list
17:59:40 <aaronpk> tantek: you can simply add that URL and keep it as a reference
17:59:49 <elf-pavlik> https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/Collection_Comparison
17:59:53 <aaronpk> sandro: i'll take a look at what you did there and add a parallel for LDP
18:00:02 <aaronpk> tantek: we have one additional agenda item
18:00:12 <aaronpk> TOPIC: participation in mailing list conversations
18:00:18 <aaronpk> tantek: how much time do you need for this issue
18:00:29 <aaronpk> bblfish: i've been told that not everyone is following or commenting on the mailing list
18:00:39 <hhalpin> q+
18:00:39 <KevinMarks> can you use the Wiki?
18:00:46 <aaronpk> ... the qyuestion is where is discussion happening if not the mailing list
18:00:54 <aaronpk> tantek: discussion is certainly happening in the telcon and also in IRC
18:01:02 <aaronpk> ... to provide some background, which has been minuted,
18:01:03 <Zakim> +Sandro.a
18:01:07 <Zakim> -Sandro
18:01:15 <aaronpk> ... when harry reached out to myself and evan to co-chair the WG and ask us to bring our perspectives
18:01:24 <aaronpk> ... specifically for me to bring the indieweb perspective and processes
18:01:25 <bret> i watch the email list, but I dont post very much
18:01:40 <aaronpk> ... i made the point that all the progress we've made was done without a mailing list
18:01:49 <aaronpk> ... part of the culture was to focus on showing by building instead of email discussions
18:02:09 <aaronpk> ... so I told harry i'd help co-chari but deliberately not participate in the mailing list so that I can provide the specific cultuer you asked us to bring to the WG
18:02:19 <bret> i can bridge anything from the mailing to to IRC, if anyone feels the opposite about IRC
18:02:26 <elf-pavlik> bret++
18:02:29 <Loqi> bret has 55 karma
18:02:38 <aaronpk> bblfish: i think we should ask the group to take a few more ___ I can't followyou around to have a discussion
18:02:48 <aaronpk> ... i dont think this is a reasonable thing to ask or a reasonable way to work
18:02:53 <aaronpk> ... idon't see how else to have a discussion
18:03:02 <aaronpk> ... i'm going to say we start to voteon the mailing list
18:03:04 <KevinMarks> vote on having a mailing list?
18:03:11 <aaronpk> ... i don't know the indieweb, i don't know what they do, i heard the make al ot of noise
18:03:16 <aaronpk> ... i'm not sure they've done anything useful
18:03:17 <hhalpin> q?
18:03:23 <aaronpk> ... i don't know what they're doing because you're not in a disucssion
18:03:47 <KevinMarks> why not sue the issues process?
18:03:47 <aaronpk> ... i can put an example in an email and be clear and have links, what is better? a blog? a tweet?
18:03:58 <aaronpk> tantek: to answer your qeustion, the answer is yes, put it on your personal site
18:04:01 <KevinMarks> s/sue/use/
18:04:20 <aaronpk> ...and by providing that pushback, we have found two groups, people who want to discuss in email, and people who want to take up the challenge and put things on their site
18:04:30 <aaronpk> ... with that focus, that's what we've been able to achieve
18:04:50 <melvster> could I suggest a public mailing list in addition to the closed one this group has ... that worked well with LDP ... and would be more "social"
18:04:51 <aaronpk> ... if you want a quick summary, we have p2p comments, replies, reposts, rsvps, invitations, all working across domains, across implementaions with numerous implementations
18:05:01 <aaronpk> ... that's something i understand no other group has been able to achieve
18:05:14 <aaronpk> bblfish: but now i have to use the indieweb protocol to communicate with you
18:05:16 <aaronpk> tantek: that's a strawman
18:05:22 <aaronpk> ... i just gave you a summary of what you've done
18:05:31 <elf-pavlik> q?
18:05:32 <aaronpk> bblfish: so you have an API for pinging and such, so you require i implement opensocial
18:05:38 <aaronpk> tantek: i don't know of anyone who is using opensocial
18:05:41 <aaronpk> bblfish: oh i meant indieweb
18:05:56 <aaronpk> hhalpin: it's clear people prefer different comm channels, I do unsuccessfully try to track email wiki and irc
18:06:01 <aaronpk> ... i know other people try to do all three
18:06:06 <bret> indieweb implementations is not required to participate here.  afaict we use: github issues, mailing list, irc and wiki
18:06:08 <aaronpk> ... i underrstnad people have different preferences
18:06:16 <aaronpk> ... i would prefer it if everyone would try to check all 3 or 4
18:06:29 <aaronpk> ... but understand if people don't, we can't force peopel to discuss with each other, or answer all questions
18:06:42 <aaronpk> bblfish: why do we still have a WG then? we should close it down and wait a year
18:06:47 <aaronpk> hhalpin: we have 3 channels and a telcon
18:06:49 <elf-pavlik> bblfish--
18:06:51 <Loqi> bblfish has -1 karma
18:06:52 <AnnB> (bblfish clarified that he misspoke about 'opensocial' .. he meant "IndieWeb")
18:07:00 <aaronpk> ... if you're unhappy with someone you should raise it with that person
18:07:05 <melvster> bblfish++
18:07:08 <Loqi> bblfish has 0 karma
18:07:10 <tantek> elf-pavlik, please let's not -- people
18:07:13 <elf-pavlik> melvster++
18:07:16 <Loqi> melvster has 6 karma
18:07:19 <elf-pavlik> elf-pavlik--
18:07:19 <Zakim> -Lloyd_Fassett
18:07:19 <ben_thatmustbeme> voting of the wiki worked for us on user stories
18:07:20 <Loqi> You can't karma yourself!
18:07:20 <AnnB> q+
18:07:28 <Arnaud> the data shapes WG does vote on the wiki actually :)
18:07:29 <KevinMarks> we did vote on user stories in the wiki
18:07:33 <aaronpk> hhalpin: it soundsl ikeoyuh ave problem with tantek not responding to your emails
18:07:43 <aaronpk> bblfish: no, he doesn't respond to any emails and doesn't even read them
18:07:46 <KevinMarks> Open issues instead
18:07:46 <Arnaud> and we did too on the stories
18:08:01 <aaronpk> ... so this is a problem of communication, he's saying we need to use blogging tools and APIs,
18:08:07 <bret> blogging tool requirement is a miscomunication
18:08:13 <elf-pavlik> AnnB++
18:08:14 <Loqi> too much karma!
18:08:19 <aaronpk> hhalpin: you can talk to him on IRC and on the telcon, i would prefer if he would read emails but we can't force him
18:08:25 <bret> we actually have 4 channels... github issues
18:08:27 <aaronpk> OH MY GOD I CANT TYPE THIS FAST
18:08:41 <bret> arguable the most important... since it actually references the spec directly
18:08:47 <KevinMarks> why not create issues, Henry? https://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/14
18:08:50 <bret> (4)
18:09:04 <AdamB> might i suggest that if one particular "topic" can't be completed via mailing list that it gets put on the telecon agenda. it will slow the velocity of the team but might be a compromise?
18:09:05 <aaronpk> hhalpin: the WG is about producing standards. we have3 channels, irc email and wiki. all three are available as html
18:09:15 <aaronpk> bblfish: can we have a list of all the people in the WG refuse to use email?
18:09:17 <hhalpin> There are 3 communication channels: 1) IRC 2) wiki 3) mailing list
18:09:21 <aaronpk> ... and we can list all the times on IRC they are available
18:09:24 <hhalpin> that should be enough.
18:09:26 <KevinMarks> Henry: use https://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/
18:09:30 <AdamB> maybe do a issue like KevnMarks suggested and discussed on the phone
18:09:35 <ben_thatmustbeme> IRC has !tell, that was stated over email
18:09:49 <ben_thatmustbeme> it performs async and you can link to specific emails
18:09:50 <Zakim> -bill-looby
18:09:58 <Arnaud> I sympathize with Henry, it is hard to have one conversation that way
18:10:07 <bret> is harry on irc?
18:10:09 <Arnaud> but I don't expect this problem to go away
18:10:18 <tantek> q+ to note that re: timezones and indieweb - we have plenty of people in Germany, Australia, and other timezones that are able to have very good productive conversations.
18:10:23 <bret> elf-pavlik: other harry
18:10:28 <Zakim> -ben_thatmustbeme
18:10:29 <bret> the one talking
18:10:39 <ben_thatmustbeme> my phone just dropped out
18:10:45 <ben_thatmustbeme> I have to go back to work, i'll be on in IRC only
18:10:48 <bret> ah ok cool
18:11:01 <KevinMarks> q+ can we ask Henry to use https://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/ instead of email for back adn forth
18:11:13 <KevinMarks> o_O
18:11:18 <KevinMarks> q+
18:11:27 <tantek> q?
18:11:29 <elf-pavlik> bblfish++
18:11:30 <hhalpin> However, we cannot force people to use particular messages.
18:11:33 <KevinMarks> IRC is logged and has async
18:11:37 <tantek> ack hhalpin
18:11:49 <tantek> hhalpin: we cannot force people to use specific channels
18:11:53 <bblfish> I'd like to know who refuses to use some of the channels
18:11:54 <tantek> ack AnnB
18:11:56 <Arnaud> sorry, we're way over time now
18:11:56 <hhalpin> s/use particular/specific channels or respond to particular messages
18:12:03 <aaronpk> tantek: i'm going to put an 11:15 hard stop
18:12:09 <hhalpin> We would prefer it if people tried to check multiple channels
18:12:29 <elf-pavlik> Loqi,
18:12:34 <aaronpk> AnnB: the one thing i don't get, i try to log in and follow it,
18:12:52 <aaronpk> ... henry, that's one thing these guys have brought to this, a way to put something into IRC and alerts someone to follow up
18:12:54 <elf-pavlik> !tell bblfish 'sup
18:12:55 <Loqi> Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
18:12:55 <bret> !tell AnnB hi AnnB!
18:12:56 <Loqi> Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
18:12:57 <aaronpk> ... maybe someone can demonstrate this
18:13:12 <KevinMarks> !tell bblfish how many unread eamial
18:13:13 <Loqi> Ok, I'll tell them that when I see them next
18:13:13 <aaronpk> ... i understand the indieweb people don't like to use email, so that "!tell somebody something" is valulable
18:13:38 <aaronpk> ... how do you accomplish that if not in email?
18:13:41 <bret> we have long conversation on IRC
18:13:43 <tantek> q?
18:13:51 <tantek> ack KevinMarks
18:13:53 <aaronpk> oops, that should have been minuted
18:13:55 <aaronpk> annb: but I am sympathetic to henry's concern, i don't understand how ... it's hard to have a longer conversation
18:14:19 <elf-pavlik> AnnB++
18:14:22 <aaronpk> AnnB: part of it is education for some of us
18:14:24 <bblfish> annb: how is one to have longer detailed conversations  on email
18:14:30 <Loqi> bblfish: elf-pavlik left you a message 1 minute ago: 'sup
18:14:34 <Loqi> bblfish: KevinMarks left you a message 1 minute ago: how many unread eamial
18:14:39 <hhalpin> In my experience, most developers I know are using a mixture of IRC and git rather than email in open-source projects
18:14:43 <bret> its easier to stay on the same page in IRC.. its really easy on email to totally lose someone after the first paragraph.  in irc you can address issues imediately rather than 6 paragraphs in
18:14:45 <aaronpk> tantek: the short answer is that email can lead to unproductive discussions
18:14:54 <hhalpin> Along with regular scrum meetings.
18:14:55 <aaronpk> AnnB: we are tryign to learn, but IRC doesn't cut it for anything longer than a couple sentences
18:15:09 <aaronpk> tantek: there are plenty of places to put longer content than IRC and then put URLs
18:15:13 <KevinMarks> webmentions, Ann
18:15:15 <melvster> Arnaud++
18:15:20 <aaronpk> AnnB: i guess we're going to have to talk about this at the F2F, it's still quite a confusion
18:15:20 <bret> you can write a blogpost into an email list, just paste the URL in
18:15:23 <ben_thatmustbeme> email being very unproductive is one of the reasons things like Slack have seen such an update
18:15:25 <hhalpin> q+
18:15:25 <elf-pavlik> AnnB, can you add it to https://www.w3.org/wiki/Socialwg/2015-03-17
18:15:29 <ben_thatmustbeme> uptake*
18:15:31 <aaronpk> AnnB: I don't quite get it yet
18:15:38 <aaronpk> tantek: i think there's a lot of folks that would happily help
18:15:41 <tantek> ack KevinMarks
18:15:57 <aaronpk> KevinMarks: i think what henry wants is a formal backand forth that is acknowledged, so if that's what he wants, use the issue tracker
18:15:59 <elf-pavlik> trackbot++
18:16:02 <tantek> q?
18:16:06 <Tsyesika> Tsyesika has joined #social
18:16:06 <aaronpk> tantek: we're out of time
18:16:10 <tantek> ack tantek
18:16:10 <Zakim> tantek, you wanted to note that re: timezones and indieweb - we have plenty of people in Germany, Australia, and other timezones that are able to have very good productive
18:16:13 <Zakim> ... conversations.
18:16:14 <KevinMarks> AnnB: ask in here
18:16:15 <tantek> ack hhalpin
18:16:31 <AnnB>  how does Issue Tracker work for discussion?
18:16:38 <aaronpk> hhalpin: we do want to see check all channels, we understand that 3 channels IRC wiki and mailing list, we understand that may be a lot for people
18:16:39 <Loqi> AnnB: bret left you a message 3 minutes ago: hi AnnB!
18:16:44 <AnnB> I post a question as an issue? and then someone responds?
18:16:53 <aaronpk> ... nonetheless, we should all try to communicate with each other, there's nothing we can do to force peopel to communicate with each other
18:16:59 <aaronpk> ... weshould assume we're all operating in good faith
18:17:04 <AnnB> that doesn't seem like a discussion
18:17:09 <elf-pavlik> AnnB, please don't use ISSUEs in tracker like that!
18:17:21 <aaronpk> ... in terms of mailing list vs non mailing list, it's a factual note that almost all open source projects have been moving away from mailing list onto IRC and tickets
18:17:23 <elf-pavlik> we need to have formal process to open and close them
18:17:25 <AnnB> I thought that's what Kevin proposed
18:17:27 <KevinMarks> hm
18:17:30 <AnnB> just trying to unders5tand
18:17:31 <bblfish> Most of these tools end up sending e-mails out, so for the moment one ends up with e-mail overflow
18:17:31 <aaronpk> ... it's not surprising that over time we're seeing shifts to other mediums,
18:17:39 <aaronpk> ... as long as it's documented we're fine with that
18:17:39 <Arnaud> gotta end this call
18:17:43 <elf-pavlik> AnnB, let's discuss it next week during face 2 face?
18:17:44 <KevinMarks> actually it looks like the github issues were what I was lookignat
18:17:52 <aaronpk> tantek: thanks for the summary. i'd encourage anyone else who wants to continue this discussion to hang out in IRC
18:17:53 <Zakim> -Arnaud
18:17:54 <Zakim> -bret
18:17:54 <Zakim> -bblfish
18:17:56 <Zakim> -AdamB
18:17:57 <Zakim> -harry
18:17:58 <Zakim> -aaronpk
18:17:59 <Zakim> -elf-pavlik
18:18:01 <Zakim> -Sandro.a
18:18:04 <melvster> hhalpin: why not make it mandatory for chairs to read the mailing list in a WG ... for example, it's mandatory to send regrets via the mailing list when you cant meet ... surely the chair shoudl be reading that?
18:18:04 <Zakim> -tantek
18:18:05 <KevinMarks> this https://github.com/jasnell/w3c-socialwg-activitystreams/issues
18:18:05 <Zakim> -rhiaro
18:18:05 <hhalpin> Again, we understand that three communications channels may be too much.
18:18:13 <melvster> cc tantek ^
18:18:14 <Tsyesika> oh is it over?
18:18:18 <Tsyesika> already?
18:18:18 <Zakim> -KevinMarks
18:18:31 <tantek> melvster because it was a condition of becoming a co-chair that we could ignore the mailing list
18:18:34 <KevinMarks> is better than https://www.w3.org/Social/track/issues/
18:18:40 <hhalpin> But that we can all try to read the various channels and keep abreast, understanding we have diffierent priorities and styles.
18:18:42 <AnnB> I do want to continue the conversation on this. Sorry to be slow, but I do not think we have a good way for a *discussion*
18:18:46 <tantek> based on previous *years* of experience that "social web" mailing lists are mostly irrelevant and unproductive
18:18:49 <melvster> tantek: politics politics :)
18:18:49 <hhalpin> W3C process cannot force anyone to read messages.
18:18:52 <AnnB> but it might be that I just do not understand
18:18:55 <aaronpk> trackbot: end meeting
18:18:55 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
18:18:55 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been +1.971.275.aaaa, AdamB, aaronpk, Arnaud, +1.401.305.aabb, elf-pavlik, ben_thatmustbeme, bblfish, Lloyd_Fassett, Ann, tantek, rhiaro,
18:18:58 <tantek> and counter-evidence that indieweb has succeeded WITHOUT a mailing list
18:18:59 <Zakim> ... Sandro, bill-looby, bret, harry, jasnell, +1.408.335.aacc, KevinMarks
18:19:03 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
18:19:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-social-minutes.html trackbot
18:19:04 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
18:19:04 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-social-actions.rdf :
18:19:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: testing ontology using ontology testing by verifying that there are no inconsistencies at that level [1]
18:19:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-social-irc#T17-32-47
18:19:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: bblfish to testing ontology using ontology testing by verifying that there are no inconsistencies at that level [2]
18:19:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-social-irc#T17-33-02
18:19:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: hhalpin to add details to issue-18 [3]
18:19:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-social-irc#T17-43-04
18:19:04 <RRSAgent> ACTION: rhiaro to acquire SQLdump of OpenSocial site database and upload somewhere [4]
18:19:04 <RRSAgent>   recorded in http://www.w3.org/2015/03/10-social-irc#T17-49-29
18:19:11 <tantek> so mailing list is just informal water cooler - purely optional
18:19:16 <AnnB> sorry that I am slower than you tantek .. such is life .. dealing with humans is a challeng
18:19:21 <tantek> melvster - not politics, but rather focus on building