15:01:20 RRSAgent has joined #tt 15:01:20 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/05-tt-irc 15:01:22 RRSAgent, make logs public 15:01:22 Zakim has joined #tt 15:01:24 Zakim, this will be TTML 15:01:25 Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference 15:01:25 Date: 05 March 2015 15:01:26 ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start now 15:01:37 zakim, who's on the phone? 15:01:38 SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has not yet started, glenn 15:01:40 On IRC I see RRSAgent, Frans, pal, tmichel, glenn, trackbot 15:01:47 zakim, this is 8865 15:01:47 ok, glenn; that matches SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM 15:01:54 zakim, who's on the phone? 15:01:55 On the phone I see pal, +1.720.897.aaaa, +41.22.717.aabb 15:01:58 nigel has joined #tt 15:01:58 +41 == Frans 15:02:06 zakim, i am aaaa 15:02:06 +glenn; got it 15:02:18 zakim, I am aabb 15:02:18 +Frans; got it 15:03:09 +nigel 15:03:48 Present: glenn, Frans, pal 15:03:52 Present+ nigel 15:03:55 chair: nigel 15:04:01 scribe: nigel 15:04:36 Topic: This meeting 15:04:46 pal: Apologies, I'm only available for a couple of minutes today. 15:04:53 Action-378? 15:04:53 Action-378 -- Pierre-Anthony Lemieux to Draft smpte request including dispositions from action-369 and backgroundcolor initial value question -- due 2015-03-05 -- OPEN 15:04:53 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/actions/378 15:05:24 +??P21 15:05:38 pal: I haven't yet managed to draft the SMPTE response, and see that there's been some further 15:05:42 ... discussion on the reflector. 15:05:47 zakim, ??P21 is me 15:05:47 +tmichel; got it 15:05:57 pal: I'm also interested to know if there's any review feedback on the IMSC 1 test suite yet? 15:06:03 nigel: I haven't been able to do this yet. 15:06:08 +jdsmith 15:06:08 Present+ tmichel 15:06:12 jdsmith has joined #tt 15:06:16 Present+ jdsmith 15:06:49 pal: On the SMPTE request, I see 2 parts - there's a TTML2 part in which we propose to dispose 15:07:08 ... of the SMPTE requests. One approach is to wait until our WD for wide review, when TTML2 has 15:07:24 ... stabilised. The other question is about SMPTE-TT and the redefinition of the initial value for 15:07:36 ... background colour on the default region. This has an impact on IMSC 1 as well as TTML 2. 15:07:48 ... Perhaps we could send two different communications - they'll probably go to different people 15:08:07 ... in SMPTE. That's my proposal, to send 2 messages. 15:08:48 nigel: I don't object to this - I have had the sense from Mike when he's been on the call in previous 15:09:00 ... meetings that there's some impatience with the time it's taken us to respond to the SMPTE 15:09:05 ... requests. 15:09:22 pal: Okay, I still think two messages should be drafted. I'll endeavour to have that ready for 15:09:24 ... next week. 15:10:12 nigel: Were there any specific points on the draft dispositions sent on the reflector? 15:10:19 pal: I haven't caught up with that yet. 15:10:35 nigel: I think we can keep going on the reflector for that as we're nearly at resolution and have 15:10:39 ... good momentum. 15:11:57 nigel: Back to the agenda for today, is there any other business? 15:12:02 group: no other business 15:12:31 Topic: WD publication process 15:12:47 nigel: We discussed this last week, but without Glenn. 15:12:51 Regrets: atai2 15:13:43 nigel: I updated the proposal and put it into the agenda. 15:14:26 PROPOSAL: permit but not require all TTWG Editors to use this new tool to publish automatically on any day of the week, following a group decision to publish, with the existing manual publishing process on Tuesdays and Thursdays still available as an alternative. 15:14:45 glenn: So long as I don't have to change my process I'm fine - I don't care what happens after I've 15:14:55 ... passed it off to the Chair or Staff Contact. 15:15:14 nigel: Up to now I haven't been involved directly in the publication process, in terms of pushing 15:15:20 ... documents onto the web server. 15:16:14 tmichel: Either I or the Editor or the Chair could use the new tool, and I could still use the old 15:16:25 ... process with the web master. As I said in an earlier email that doesn't change anything about 15:16:37 ... the approval process for the group to agree to publish. 15:16:49 ... In some working groups there is one decision allowing the editor to publish when they feel 15:17:01 ... like it - that's orthogonal to the publication process itself. 15:17:33 RESOLUTION: permit but not require all TTWG Editors to use this new tool to publish automatically on any day of the week, following a group decision to publish, with the existing manual publishing process on Tuesdays and Thursdays still available as an alternative. 15:17:43 Topic: Action Items 15:17:53 nigel: We already covered this earlier - there was only one action item. 15:18:21 nigel: Just to note for the minutes that after last week's meeting I closed off the action items that 15:18:30 ... we had covered but that I'd forgotten to close at the time. 15:18:43 Topic: F2F 15:18:58 https://www.w3.org/wiki/TimedText/F2F-april-2015 15:19:45 nigel: So far we have myself, Glenn and Dae Kim from Netflix (I've suggested to him that he may 15:19:51 ... wish to join the group too). 15:20:04 nigel: If you're able to attend then please add your name to the wiki page. 15:20:51 nigel: Looking at the agenda, I've added a couple of items, to review the TTML <--> WebVTT mapping 15:21:04 ... - though I haven't seen any straw man document for this yet. 15:21:34 glenn: Where are we on VTT? Will anyone attend to work on it at the upcoming meeting? 15:21:37 nigel: I'm not sure. 15:22:05 -pal 15:22:52 nigel: That feeds in nicely to the other item I added as a possible, which is to review and where 15:23:05 ... possible align the semantics of new/in development features in TTML2 and WebVTT. 15:23:44 nigel: Obviously this depends on having the right people present. 15:25:00 +pal 15:32:22 tmichel: For WebVTT, there are some issues to resolve in terms of IPP, which I'm pursuing. 15:32:47 ... I've also discussed this with plh. Plus I've started getting review from dependency groups 15:33:30 ... i18n, WCAG, WAI-PF and CSS WG and HTML WG. 15:34:43 nigel: Back to the F2F, are there any other agenda items to add? 15:34:47 group: none at the moment 15:35:03 Topic: Issues 15:36:02 issue-294? 15:36:02 issue-294 -- Style attribute to prevent overflow by shrinking text to fit on a line -- pending review 15:36:02 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/294 15:36:44 nigel: This was mine. Glenn's proposal was to do nothing for the time being because it's too complex. 15:37:23 ... And there's the option to use the 'font' element for more consistent rendering and the 15:37:44 ... tts:extent="fitContent auto". 15:37:52 glenn: There are a couple of scenarios to consider. 15:38:00 ... 1) Ruby 15:38:11 ... 2) textCombine semantics of putting a horizontal block into a vertical line. 15:38:22 ... I haven't given it complete thought but I'm in the process of implementing support and 15:38:52 ... thinking about this issue. There's a fair amount of implementation detail to work through. 15:39:15 ... One of them is the sizing of Ruby. The Japanese layout guidance makes some recommendations 15:39:28 ... about sizing text, but CSS Ruby and HTML5 Ruby are fairly silent on the subject of sizing. 15:39:44 ... So I've been assuming that the UA is free to scale the size of the Ruby annotation text to fit 15:39:57 ... into the annotation box that's most appropriate for use with the base text. Similarly for 15:40:17 ... textCombine horizontal, one may try to scale text to fit into the line height (block progression 15:40:32 ... dimension). One way to think about that is that we have fontSize="auto" which tells the UA it 15:40:45 ... can do what it wants to automatically fit the font size to do something appropriate, which 15:40:56 ... suggests that in those cases the author should also be able to specify a definite font size, 15:41:10 ... and if that causes the text to extend outside the nominal box then that would happen. I've 15:41:25 ... been mulling over an "auto" value for fontSize but haven't written anything down yet. 15:41:50 ... If we were to introduce it then we might define some content fitting semantics for something 15:41:57 ... other than just Ruby and horizontal inline boxes. 15:42:32 nigel: That suggests to me that we reopen the issue and move it to v.next for the time being. 15:43:25 nigel: I've done that directly on the issue and added a note. 15:43:47 issue-297? 15:43:48 issue-297 -- Include Profile Designator in Profile Definition Document -- pending review 15:43:48 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/297 15:44:51 nigel: The comments suggest this has been done using the designator attribute. 15:46:00 nigel: This is in ttp:profile. 15:46:37 close issue-297 15:46:37 Closed issue-297. 15:46:48 issue-300? 15:46:48 issue-300 -- Prior interpretation of the correct fallback for tts:origin -- pending review 15:46:48 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/300 15:47:27 Frans has joined #tt 15:48:37 In this context, the phrase closest supported value means the value for which the Euclidean distance between the computed origin and the supported origin is minimized. If there are multiple closest supported values equally distant from the computed value, then the value least distant from [0,0], i.e., closest to the coordinate space origin, is used. 15:49:07 nigel: That note is all I think is required for the issue. 15:49:21 s/In this context/glenn: In this context 15:49:45 glenn: That post is the note in TTML2. It's the same language as in TTML1. It doesn't look like 15:49:50 ... there's any inconsistency. 15:49:58 ... (with the second edition anyway). 15:50:54 nigel: I agree we should close this - there's no apparent difference between TTML1SE and TTML2 15:50:55 ... here. 15:51:00 close issue-300 15:51:00 Closed issue-300. 15:51:15 issue-356? 15:51:15 issue-356 -- Add support for text emphasis semantics -- pending review 15:51:15 http://www.w3.org/AudioVideo/TT/tracker/issues/356 15:52:07 nigel: This has been implemented with the tts:textEmphasis attribute on span. There's an Ed Note 15:52:17 ... for adding an example fragment and image. 15:53:53 glenn: This is focused on some east Asian/CJK features that add dots or marks near the text, 15:54:11 ... sort of like Ruby, but semantically they're like emboldening the weight of a font - that technique 15:54:24 ... is not generally used; the dot is used for semantic emphasis instead. 15:54:49 glenn: It's called kendot in Japanese. 15:55:13 glenn: here's a better reference for the minutes: 15:55:23 http://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/#composition_of_emphasis_dots 15:56:14 pal: In terms of Japanese reviewers, did TTWG formalise the liaison with ARIB? 15:56:27 nigel: Yes we did. I think it's in the minutes from a couple of weeks ago. 15:56:42 pal: Perhaps in due time it would make sense to actively seek ARIB's feedback 15:56:58 nigel: That will happen anyway because my approach will be to seek review from all of our 15:57:15 ... direct liaisons, as well as the dependencies listed in the charter, when we publish the WD for 15:57:17 ... wide review. 15:57:55 pal: Okay, in the meantime if we have specific questions on CJK features we could maybe ask 15:58:04 ... targeted questions in a direct liaison message. 15:58:10 nigel: +1 15:58:23 close issue-356 15:58:23 Closed issue-356. 15:59:06 -pal 15:59:45 nigel: We're out of time for this week - meet again same time next week. Don't forget to review 16:00:03 -Frans 16:00:06 -glenn 16:00:07 -jdsmith 16:00:09 -nigel 16:00:12 ... the IMSC 1 test suite. [adjourns meeting] 16:00:18 ... Thanks everyone! 16:00:32 rrsagent, make logs public 16:00:36 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:00:36 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/05-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:05:39 ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics 16:05:42 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:05:42 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/05-tt-minutes.html nigel 16:07:55 s/+41 == Frans/ 16:07:56 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:07:56 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/05-tt-minutes.html nigel 17:05:00 disconnecting the lone participant, tmichel, in SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM 17:05:02 SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has ended 17:05:02 Attendees were pal, +1.720.897.aaaa, +41.22.717.aabb, glenn, Frans, nigel, tmichel, jdsmith 17:30:27 Zakim has left #tt