15:53:47 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #hcls
15:53:47 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/03-hcls-irc
15:53:49 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:53:49 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #hcls
15:53:51 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HCLS
15:53:51 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see SW_HCLS()11:00AM scheduled to start in 7 minutes
15:53:52 <trackbot> Meeting: Semantic Web Health Care and Life Sciences Interest Group Teleconference
15:53:52 <trackbot> Date: 03 March 2015
15:56:49 <egonw> egonw has joined #HCLS
15:57:09 <Tony> Tony has joined #HCLS
15:57:42 <Zakim> SW_HCLS()11:00AM has now started
15:57:49 <Zakim> + +1.978.794.aaaa
15:58:10 <Tony> zakim aaaa is Tony
15:58:18 <Zakim> +ericP
15:58:27 <egombocz> egombocz has joined #HCLS
15:58:49 <bpech> bpech has joined #hcls
15:58:50 <Zakim> +DBooth
15:59:01 <Zakim> +egombocz
15:59:59 <Zakim> + +1.678.999.aabb
16:00:14 <dbooth> zakim, aabb pbech
16:00:14 <Zakim> I don't understand 'aabb pbech', dbooth
16:00:25 <Tony> zakim, aaaa is Tony
16:00:25 <Zakim> +Tony; got it
16:00:26 <dbooth> zakim, aabb is bpech
16:00:27 <Zakim> +bpech; got it
16:01:12 <dbooth> zakim, who is here?
16:01:12 <Zakim> On the phone I see Tony, ericP, DBooth, egombocz, bpech
16:01:14 <Zakim> On IRC I see bpech, egombocz, Tony, egonw, Zakim, RRSAgent, dbooth, TallTed, ericP, cloudcell_, trackbot
16:01:17 <Lloyd> Lloyd has joined #HCLS
16:01:33 <Lloyd> Will be late connecting to audio
16:01:49 <Zakim> + +1.512.680.aacc
16:02:01 <dbooth> zakim, aacc is Darrell
16:02:01 <Zakim> +Darrell; got it
16:02:10 <DNelson> DNelson has joined #HCLS
16:02:20 <Zakim> + +1.604.250.aadd
16:02:21 <dbooth> Topic: FHIR RDF and Validation/Translation Task force kickoff (Fridays 11am Boston timezone)
16:02:36 <rhausam> rhausam has joined #HCLS
16:02:53 <dbooth> zakim, aadd is Pknapp
16:02:53 <Zakim> +Pknapp; got it
16:03:01 <Zakim> + +1.916.783.aaee
16:03:06 <dbooth> topic:  Approve Minutes of previous meetings
16:03:08 <Claude> Claude has joined #hcls
16:03:17 <ericP> Zakim, aaee is DNelson
16:03:17 <Zakim> +DNelson; got it
16:03:41 <Zakim> + +1.801.949.aaff
16:03:52 <dbooth> zakim, pick a victim
16:03:52 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose DBooth
16:04:01 <ericP> Zakim, aaff is rhausam
16:04:01 <Zakim> +rhausam; got it
16:04:03 <dbooth> zakim, pick a victim
16:04:03 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose rhausam
16:04:05 <Zakim> + +1.202.528.aagg
16:04:35 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Marc_Twagirumukiza has joined #HCLS
16:04:42 <Ingeborg> Ingeborg has joined #HCLS
16:04:59 <dbooth> zakim, aagg is Ingeborg
16:05:00 <Zakim> +Ingeborg; got it
16:05:22 <dbooth> Feb 24 minutes: http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=ITS_RDF_Concall_Minutes_20150224
16:06:08 <pknapp_> pknapp_ has joined #HCLS
16:06:12 <dbooth> http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=ITS_RDF_Concall_Minutes_20150224
16:06:42 <dbooth> RESOLVED: Feb 24 minutes approved!
16:07:09 <dbooth> Topic: Back to FHIR RDF and Validation/Translation Task force kickoff (Fridays 11am Boston timezone)
16:07:28 <Zakim> + +1.323.444.aahh
16:07:35 <rhausam> work on mechanics of transformation and validation in RDF
16:07:37 <Zakim> + +1.507.261.aaii
16:07:37 <Zakim> - +1.507.261.aaii
16:07:41 <rhausam> tool is shape expressions
16:07:50 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Zakim,aahh   is Marc_Twagirumukiza
16:07:50 <Zakim> +Marc_Twagirumukiza; got it
16:08:12 <rhausam> extensions which allow creating artifact like a new document
16:08:47 <GJiang> GJiang has joined #HCLS
16:08:56 <rhausam> transform FHIR RDF to FHIR XML
16:09:00 <mscottm> mscottm has joined #hcls
16:09:07 <DNelson> q+
16:09:32 <dbooth> q+
16:09:40 <Zakim> + +1.507.261.aajj
16:09:52 <Zakim> + +31.62.427.aakk
16:09:57 <dbooth> zakim, aahh is Marc
16:09:57 <Zakim> sorry, dbooth, I do not recognize a party named 'aahh'
16:10:17 <mscottm> Zakim, aakk is mscottm
16:10:17 <Zakim> +mscottm; got it
16:10:26 <dbooth> ack DNelson
16:10:40 <Tony> q+ Tony
16:11:34 <rhausam> Dale - provide method of validating CCDA via RDF?
16:11:46 <dbooth> s/Dale -/Dale:/
16:13:57 <rhausam> discussion of CCDA validation
16:14:08 <dbooth> ack dbooth
16:14:19 <rhausam> Eric - validation language may only handle transformation bits
16:15:09 <dbooth> ack Tony
16:15:12 <rhausam> David - new call for transformation on Friday
16:15:22 <dbooth> s/David -/David:/
16:17:01 <dbooth> Eric: There is XSLT that translates FHIR XML into FHIR RDF.  That XSLT is generated by a script, from the FHIR spec.
16:17:25 <dbooth> ... That code could also generate the FHIR ontology.
16:18:27 <michel> michel has joined #hcls
16:18:34 <dbooth> Tony: Assuming the property resources are the formal declaration, looking at mapping to OWL ontology.   Is your tooling robust enough to work?
16:19:09 <dbooth> Eric: It's a proving ground.  It's like using chopsticks with chopsticks.
16:20:04 <Zakim> + +1.310.266.aall
16:20:05 <dbooth> q+ To note that another potential route we're exploring is to use JSON-LD, which would mean that any JSON-LD RDF parser could turn FHIR JSON(-LD) into RDF.
16:21:18 <dbooth> Eric: We can take this approach, and see if there are pieces we want to change.
16:21:53 <dbooth> ... The script is python.
16:22:03 <dbooth> ... Manual transformations are XSLT.
16:22:18 <dbooth> ... With a hand-tooled footer for the XSLT.
16:22:30 <dbooth> zakim, aall is claude
16:22:30 <Zakim> +claude; got it
16:22:34 <dbooth> ack dbooth
16:22:34 <Zakim> dbooth, you wanted to note that another potential route we're exploring is to use JSON-LD, which would mean that any JSON-LD RDF parser could turn FHIR JSON(-LD) into RDF.
16:24:05 <dbooth> Tony: Wise to do the parallel exploration.
16:24:34 <michel> michel has joined #hcls
16:24:48 <dbooth> David: Task Force call will start this Friday 11am Eastern.
16:25:39 <rafael_richards> rafael_richards has joined #HCLS
16:25:54 <dbooth> Eric: Timezone chaos in the next 2 weeks.  All calls are relative to Boston time.
16:26:01 <Zakim> -Pknapp
16:26:07 <Zakim> +michel
16:26:13 <dbooth> Topic: FHIR JSON-LD update (David)
16:26:28 <dbooth> http://dbooth.org/2015/fhir/json-ld/fhir-in-json-ld.pdf
16:26:35 <Zakim> +Pknapp
16:30:04 <dbooth> David: FHIR is a closed content model.  That's very helpful for the JSON-LD.
16:30:11 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:30:53 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
16:31:02 <dbooth> Tony: Worth investigating whether the structure represents graphs or only tree structure.
16:31:05 <Lloyd> zakim, ipcaller.a is lloyd
16:31:05 <Zakim> +lloyd; got it
16:32:22 <mscottm> Daylight savings time in the U.S. starts Sunday March 8, in EU, it starts Sunday March 29. In practice, this means people calling in from Europe have to translate their normal call times by -1 hours to keep in sync with Boston, i.e., U.S. will have a *smaller* time difference with EU in the chaotic period. So, this weeks Task Force call will be at 5PM CET as usual for EU participants but next week's will be at 4PM CET and so on until March 29.
16:33:31 <mscottm> yes
16:33:50 <mscottm> Wed is difficult for me.
16:34:36 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> it will be ok for me
16:34:51 <rhausam> Wed works for me
16:35:25 <dbooth> Topic: FHIR examples for driving ontology developments (SKIPPED)
16:35:39 <dbooth> Topic:  Valuesets in FHIR (Lloyd)
16:35:49 <mscottm> Keep in mind that in 3 weeks the call will be at 5PM CET for the long run.
16:36:06 <dbooth>   https://global.gotomeeting.com/join/157514853
16:36:06 <dbooth>   Access Code: 157-514-853
16:36:21 <egonw> egonw has joined #HCLS
16:37:08 <dbooth> zakim, who is here?
16:37:08 <Zakim> On the phone I see Tony, ericP, DBooth, egombocz, bpech, Darrell, DNelson, rhausam, Ingeborg, Marc_Twagirumukiza, +1.507.261.aajj, mscottm, claude, michel, Pknapp, [IPcaller],
16:37:12 <Zakim> ... lloyd
16:37:12 <Zakim> On IRC I see egonw, rafael_richards, michel, mscottm, GJiang, pknapp_, Ingeborg, Marc_Twagirumukiza, rhausam, DNelson, Lloyd, bpech, egombocz, Tony, Zakim, RRSAgent, dbooth,
16:37:12 <Zakim> ... TallTed, ericP, cloudcell_, trackbot
16:37:20 <Alejandra> Alejandra has joined #hcls
16:37:24 <dbooth> s/Friday/Wednesday/
16:37:31 <Alejandra> Hello all
16:37:47 <Lloyd> http://hl7-fhir.github.io/datatypes.html
16:37:51 <Alejandra> sorry, cannot join the call but wanted to express that Wed would be good for me, thanks!
16:39:37 <dbooth> lloyd: Giving background on how FHIR handles terminology, and how we may use RDF to represent FHIR and link to other ontologies such as SNOMED.
16:39:59 <dbooth> ... First look at what datatypes we have: http://hl7-fhir.github.io/datatypes.html
16:40:14 <dbooth> ... Then talk about FHIR's notion of bindings, then valuesets.
16:40:56 <dbooth> ... At the simplest level is a Code datatype -- a string.   Namespace and allowed choices.  We use it for status codes, gender, etc.
16:41:15 <dbooth> ... Reasonable to use when the set of codes will not change without a major new release of FHIR.
16:41:23 <Alejandra> Great, tx Eric
16:41:30 <dbooth> ... Second type is Coding and CodeableConcept.
16:42:05 <dbooth> ... Coding represents a single code: both the code and the code system (URI).  Maybe also a version -- important to some systems, if meaning changes bewteen versions.
16:42:38 <dbooth> ... Code + System + Version = meaning of the context.
16:42:50 <dbooth> http://hl7-fhir.github.io/datatypes.html#coding
16:43:08 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> -Marc
16:43:20 <Zakim> -michel
16:43:22 <dbooth> ... The notion of a system being a URI will map well to URI, but version string will not.
16:43:36 <dbooth> ... Code system defines what the version string looks like.
16:43:46 <Zakim> -Marc_Twagirumukiza
16:44:04 <dbooth> ... Also the Code itself is not part of the URI.
16:44:24 <Zakim> +michel
16:44:24 <dbooth> ... We'll avoid spaces in codes for codes we define, but other code systems might have them or other funny chars.
16:44:44 <dbooth> Tony: Is a code unique within a Coding system?
16:45:41 <dbooth> ... There's an expectation that we do not have homogeny (same code having differnet meanings).  Some systems do that (UCUM).  Code "M" could mean "meter" or "milli", but milli would not stand by itself so that isn't a problem.
16:45:53 <dbooth> ... But FHIR does not prohibit code systems that do that.
16:47:20 <dbooth> ... We have System, Code, Version, and need to be alble to reconstitute them when going between FHIR representations.  They can have slashes, hashes, etc., that will make them very difficult to concatenate into a URI.
16:48:07 <dbooth> ... Which I think means that RDF will need to retain them as separate properties, and we'll need to use some kind of equivalence to a full URI.
16:48:22 <ericP> -> https://www.w3.org/wiki/HCLS/ClinicalObservationsInteroperability/FDATherapeuticAreaOntologies#Coding_specificity example mapping between Coding and URL
16:48:29 <dbooth> Tony: Could have both version code and URI.
16:49:49 <dbooth> lloyd: But the conversion must use a single algorithm that is independent of code system.
16:51:36 <dbooth> ... Might have a companion ontology that links FHIR ont to specific coding system.
16:53:05 <dbooth> eric: Could define a URI transformation, but would be nice if the coding system URI is dereferenceable.
16:53:30 <dbooth> lloyd: Can we make an algorithm that would work for them all?  Maybe, but scary.
16:54:07 <Zakim> -Darrell
16:54:08 <Lloyd> http://hl7-fhir.github.io/datatypes.html#codeableconcept
16:54:33 <dbooth> ISSUE: How to represent coding system, code and version as round-trippable URIs?
16:54:33 <trackbot> Created ISSUE-3 - How to represent coding system, code and version as round-trippable uris?.  Please complete additional details at <http://www.w3.org/2014/HCLS/track/issues/3/edit>.
16:54:36 <Zakim> +Darrell
16:55:28 <dbooth> lloyd: Common with coded data to have more than one code from different coding systems, which are more or less equivalent.   That's purpose of CodeableConcept.
16:56:08 <dbooth> .... Code from SNOMED might be the first or 5th.  People can pass instances that meet a variety of consumers without separate instances for each target.
16:57:15 <dbooth> Eric: If we get a document with a Mayo code, SNOMED code and CPT code, and we spit it back out with all 3 codes in different order, is that ok for round tripping?
16:57:36 <dbooth> lloyd: FHIR rule is that it is an array, and the ordering is significant.
16:57:59 <dbooth> ... We don't assign significance in this case, but it would break a hash of the message.
16:58:10 <dbooth> Claude: Can label one as preferred?
16:58:47 <dbooth> lloyd: One can be labeled as Primary.  That means "This is the one the user chose".  If someone codes after the fact (reading the text), then none would be primary.
16:59:20 <dbooth> ... If you're translating, you want to start with Primary.
16:59:51 <Zakim> -Pknapp
17:00:31 <Zakim> -michel
17:00:39 <dbooth> ACTION: David to sent calendar invite for Wed
17:00:39 <trackbot> 'David' is an ambiguous username. Please try a different identifier, such as family name or username (e.g., dderour, dhansen2, dhau2, dnewman, dshotton, dwild).
17:00:44 <Zakim> -bpech
17:01:03 <Zakim> - +1.507.261.aajj
17:01:03 <Zakim> -Ingeborg
17:01:05 <Zakim> -rhausam
17:01:06 <Zakim> -Tony
17:01:08 <Zakim> -Darrell
17:01:13 <Zakim> -egombocz
17:01:14 <Zakim> -DNelson
17:02:03 <Zakim> -claude
17:06:32 <Zakim> -lloyd
17:06:33 <Zakim> -DBooth
17:06:47 <Zakim> -ericP
17:06:50 <dbooth> Chair: David Booth and Paul Knapp
17:07:42 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:07:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/03-hcls-minutes.html dbooth
17:09:30 <Zakim> -mscottm
17:14:31 <Zakim> disconnecting the lone participant, [IPcaller], in SW_HCLS()11:00AM
17:14:32 <Zakim> SW_HCLS()11:00AM has ended
17:14:32 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.978.794.aaaa, ericP, DBooth, egombocz, +1.678.999.aabb, Tony, bpech, +1.512.680.aacc, Darrell, +1.604.250.aadd, Pknapp, +1.916.783.aaee, DNelson, +1.801.949.aaff,
17:14:32 <Zakim> ... rhausam, +1.202.528.aagg, Ingeborg, +1.323.444.aahh, +1.507.261.aaii, Marc_Twagirumukiza, +1.507.261.aajj, +31.62.427.aakk, mscottm, +1.310.266.aall, claude, michel,
17:14:34 <Zakim> ... [IPcaller], lloyd
17:30:21 <dbooth> dbooth has joined #hcls
17:30:26 <dbooth> s/zakim aaaa is Tony//
17:30:38 <dbooth> ADJOURNED
17:31:25 <dbooth> scribenick: rhausam
17:33:39 <dbooth> zakim, who was here?
17:33:39 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, dbooth.
17:36:12 <dbooth> Present: Claude_Nanjo David_Booth Dale_Nelson Darrell Guoqian_Jiang Lloyd_McKenzie Ingeborg Marc_Twagirumukiza Paul_Knapp Tony_Mallia Brian_Pech Erich_Gombocz EricP Michel_Dumontier mscottm  Rob_Hausam Rafael_Richards (IRC only)
17:36:30 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:36:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/03-hcls-minutes.html dbooth
17:38:35 <dbooth> s/Topic: FHIR RDF and Validation/Translation Task force kickoff (Fridays 11am Boston timezone)//g
17:39:09 <dbooth> s/Topic: Back to/Topic: FHIR RDF and Validation/Translation Task force kickoff (Fridays 11am Boston timezone)/
17:39:13 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:39:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/03-hcls-minutes.html dbooth
17:40:54 <dbooth> s|Topic: FHIR RDF and Validation/Translation Task force kickoff (Fridays 11am Boston timezone)||g
17:41:29 <dbooth> s|Topic: Back to|Topic: FHIR RDF and Validation/Translation Task force kickoff (Fridays 11am Boston timezone)|g
17:41:34 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:41:34 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/03-hcls-minutes.html dbooth
17:43:09 <dbooth> s|FHIR RDF and Validation/Translation Task force kickoff (Fridays 11am Boston timezone) FHIR|FHIR|g
17:43:12 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:43:12 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/03-hcls-minutes.html dbooth
17:44:38 <dbooth> i/work on mechanics/ScribeNick: rhausam
17:45:09 <dbooth> s/Eric -/Eric:/g
17:45:40 <dbooth> i/Eric: There is XSLT/ScribeNick: dbooth
17:45:54 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:45:54 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/03-hcls-minutes.html dbooth
17:46:57 <dbooth> s|s/Topic: FHIR RDF and Validation/Translation Task force kickoff (Fridays 11am Boston timezone)//||
17:47:14 <dbooth> s|s///g||
17:47:20 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:47:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/03-hcls-minutes.html dbooth
18:23:40 <egonw> egonw has joined #HCLS
20:01:49 <Zakim> Zakim has left #hcls