15:19:09 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dpub
15:19:09 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/03/02-dpub-irc
15:19:11 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:19:11 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dpub
15:19:13 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
15:19:13 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 41 minutes
15:19:14 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
15:19:14 <trackbot> Date: 02 March 2015
15:53:54 <NickRuffilo> NickRuffilo has joined #dpub
15:55:25 <brady_duga> brady_duga has joined #dpub
15:55:37 <NickRuffilo> What are the dial-in instructions again?
15:55:38 <Vlad> Vlad has joined #dpub
15:56:17 <NickRuffilo> OK i found it, thanks
15:57:16 <tzviya> tzviya has joined #dpub
15:57:30 <NickRuffilo> Anyone know a web-based way to dial in to the call?
15:57:39 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started
15:57:44 <tmichel> tmichel has joined #dpub
15:57:46 <Zakim> +Stearns
15:57:50 <Ayla_Stein> Ayla_Stein has joined #DPUB
15:57:55 <murakami> murakami has joined #dpub
15:57:56 <tzviya> zakim, code?
15:57:56 <Zakim> the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), tzviya
15:58:05 <liza> liza has joined #dpub
15:58:09 <clapierre> clapierre has joined #DPUB
15:58:19 <Zakim> +Tzviya
15:58:34 <Zakim> +duga
15:58:37 <Zakim> + +1.617.426.aaaa
15:58:42 <Zakim> +??P6
15:58:44 <liza> Zakim, aaa is me
15:58:44 <Zakim> sorry, liza, I do not recognize a party named 'aaa'
15:58:45 <Zakim> + +1.217.300.aabb
15:58:50 <Zakim> +clapierre
15:58:50 <liza> Zakim, aaaa is me
15:58:51 <Zakim> +liza; got it
15:58:55 <murakami> zakim, ??P6 is me
15:58:55 <Zakim> +murakami; got it
15:59:00 <Zakim> +dauwhe
15:59:03 <dauwhe> dauwhe has joined #dpub
15:59:12 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:59:33 <NickRuffilo> zakim, IPcaller is me
15:59:33 <Zakim> +NickRuffilo; got it
15:59:58 <ivan> zakim, code?
15:59:58 <Zakim> the conference code is 3782 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), ivan
16:00:07 <Zakim> +Ivan
16:00:13 <kwkbtr> kwkbtr has joined #dpub
16:00:16 <dauwhe> Zakim, who is typing underwater?
16:00:16 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, dauwhe.
16:00:28 <tzviya> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2015Mar/0000.html
16:00:36 <ivan> scribenick: NickRuffilo
16:00:45 <Zakim> + +1.781.970.aacc
16:00:48 <tzviya> scribenick: NickRuffilo
16:00:49 <Zakim> +pkra
16:00:55 <ivan> scribe: Nick
16:01:09 <Julie_Morris> Julie_Morris has joined #dpub
16:01:16 <Zakim> +Karen_Myers
16:01:18 <Zakim> +??P13
16:01:20 <Zakim> +liza.a
16:01:29 <kwkbtr> Zakim, ??P13 is me
16:01:29 <Zakim> +kwkbtr; got it
16:01:32 <tzviya> zakim, who is here?
16:01:32 <Zakim> On the phone I see Stearns, Tzviya, duga, liza, murakami, +1.217.300.aabb, clapierre, dauwhe, NickRuffilo, Ivan, +1.781.970.aacc, pkra, Karen_Myers, liza.a, kwkbtr
16:01:33 <ivan> zakim, aacc is Vlad
16:01:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see Julie_Morris, kwkbtr, dauwhe, clapierre, liza, murakami, Ayla_Stein, tmichel, tzviya, Vlad, brady_duga, NickRuffilo, Zakim, RRSAgent, azaroth, ivan, pkra, liam,
16:01:36 <Zakim> ... dkaplan3, rego, iank, mihnea_____, plinss, Karen, astearns, trackbot
16:01:36 <Zakim> +Vlad; got it
16:01:40 <dkaplan3> zakim, liza.a is me
16:01:40 <Zakim> +dkaplan3; got it
16:01:41 <NickRuffilo> I may have to quickly exit, as I have contractors working on my heating system, if so, I'll type "!!!!!!"
16:01:46 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #dpub
16:01:51 <NickRuffilo> Otherwise I'll be scribe for today
16:01:56 <Zakim> + +1.646.336.aadd
16:02:12 <Zakim> -pkra
16:02:18 <Zakim> +??P19
16:02:22 <ivan> zakim, aadd is Julie_Morris
16:02:22 <Zakim> +Julie_Morris; got it
16:02:27 <Zakim> +Bill_Kasdorf
16:02:30 <ivan> zakim, aabb is Ayla_Stein
16:02:30 <Zakim> +Ayla_Stein; got it
16:02:37 <tmichel> zakim, ??P19 is me
16:02:37 <Zakim> +tmichel; got it
16:02:37 <bjdmeest> bjdmeest has joined #dpub
16:02:44 <NickRuffilo> Any notes as first-time scribe?  just write what people say?
16:03:04 <Zakim> +pkra
16:03:04 <ivan> Regrets: Heather, Nick, Phil
16:03:17 <NickRuffilo> Ivan, I'm here
16:03:34 <NickRuffilo> TY
16:03:42 <astearns> NickRuffilo: summarize, and don't be shy about telling people to shut up so you can catch up
16:03:46 <tmichel> Regrets: Luc
16:04:31 <Zakim> +[Ugent]
16:04:34 <AH_Miller> AH_Miller has joined #DPUB
16:04:34 <mgylling> mgylling has joined #dpub
16:04:36 <bjdmeest> zakim, Ugent is me
16:04:36 <Zakim> +bjdmeest; got it
16:04:37 <NickRuffilo> ... Scratch Nick from Regrets list
16:04:43 <tzviya> http://www.w3.org/2015/02/23-dpub-minutes.html
16:04:48 <bjdmeest> Present+ Ben_De_Meester
16:04:57 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: "review the minutes from last week, any comments?  Alan posted something on the list about packaging"
16:05:11 <NickRuffilo> ...: "Minutes approved..."
16:05:27 <ivan> Topic: Houdini
16:05:28 <NickRuffilo> ...: "Turn over to Alan and Dave.  The magic of CSS + Houdini. VINI VIDI VICI"
16:05:41 <Zakim> +pbelfanti
16:05:50 <Zakim> +Markus
16:06:03 <NickRuffilo> "I was at the houdini meeting.  Goal is to extend CSS.  Cover big black box where stuff goes in, stuff comes out.  If magic isn't what you want, it is difficult to make changes"
16:06:18 <NickRuffilo> "goal of houdini is to make a script to make it easier to understand how a browser lays things out."
16:06:29 <NickRuffilo> "Lots of things about properties and exposing the parser..."
16:07:08 <ivan> s/"I was"/Alan: "I was"/
16:07:11 <NickRuffilo> "Script to be able to handle the new stuff.  Also more complicated things like exposing where things are being drawn in a more robust way than we are doing so far.  Also letting scripts determine where things will be drawn, or letting scripts change the way things are handled.  Custom layouts..."
16:07:22 <astearns> http://www.mail-archive.com/dev-servo@lists.mozilla.org/msg01131.html
16:07:41 <NickRuffilo> ..."Simone? Sipan gave a great introduction (link above) summarized each of the documents the task for will be working on."
16:08:01 <NickRuffilo> ..."The sense I got was - bunch of enthusiasm, no public NOs, but lots of private skeptisism"
16:08:04 <pbelfanti> pbelfanti has joined #dpub
16:08:04 <clapierre> q+
16:08:17 <tzviya> s/Simone? Sipan/Simon Sapin
16:08:34 <NickRuffilo> ..."This is a thing to keep track of, to make sure people aren't going overboard, but probably less than 1/2 of what was discussed will see movement in the next year or so"
16:08:55 <NickRuffilo> ..."Hopefully I will find others who are interested in pushing the little bits and plumbing related items."
16:08:55 <tzviya> ack clappiere
16:09:02 <tzviya> q?
16:09:14 <tzviya> ack clapierre
16:09:17 <pkra> q+
16:09:18 <NickRuffilo> Charles: ? "Red flag - was there any talk of accessibility in any of this?  "
16:09:35 <ivan> s/?/LaPierre/
16:09:49 <Zakim> +MikeMiller
16:10:21 <NickRuffilo> Alan: "It was discussed, some of this stuff could be useful for accessiblity.  One message posted to the list yesterday, was allowing in custom-layout, having custom line-break.  More sophisticated outline for better line measures.  People are doing this today - on canvas - so it loses accessibility."
16:10:32 <tzviya> q?
16:10:33 <Laura_Fowler> Laura_Fowler has joined #dpub
16:10:58 <NickRuffilo> ...: "If there is a way to hook into the actual drawing of the text, it can make the text displayed nicer with more accessibility.  But it's always something to consider.  Custom boxes need to be full citizens with full access, etc..."
16:11:09 <Zakim> +lfowler
16:11:22 <TimCole> TimCole has joined #dpub
16:11:22 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: "Dave/alan - can you give us an idea of how this might affect digital pub - near/long term."
16:11:26 <tzviya> q?
16:11:58 <Zakim> +TimCole
16:12:17 <tzviya> vivliostyle summary of Houdini: http://vivliostyle.com/2015/02/sydney
16:12:42 <NickRuffilo> Alan: "Near term there is a new - bibliostyle - that is looking to put pagination on top of existing browser using scripting.  Some of the low-level elements are what they need in order to make a 'nice' reading experience in the browser.  They were in the meeting and will be involved.  Their work will be accelerated if the lower-level work gets going"
16:13:03 <ivan> s/bibliostyle/vivliostyle/
16:13:16 <NickRuffilo> ....: "Longer term, it may be that some engines that do not immediately support a paginated view, but allow a paginated view through custom scripts, etc.  Some engines may go that route."
16:13:20 <tzviya> ack pkra
16:14:20 <tzviya> q?
16:14:47 <NickRuffilo> Peter: ? "Is the following helpful: I'm in the process of organizing in the MathML group - how can MathML move closer to other standards?  There is lots of duplication.  Are these useful use-cases for this group that could be related?  Altmetrics? API has there been any discussion on that?"
16:15:00 <david_stroup> david_stroup has joined #dpub
16:15:08 <dauwhe> Peter Linss reports on the Houdini meeting to the TAG: https://github.com/w3ctag/meetings/blob/gh-pages/2015/telcons/02-26-houdini-minutes.md#css-extensibilityhoudini
16:15:44 <Zakim> + +1.585.217.aaee
16:15:48 <NickRuffilo> Alan: "Going over what voids what MathML needs is a terrific topic for the Houdini group.  If there are extensions to CSS that MathML needs, thats useful.  On FontMetrics? that is the one document I'm on the hook for, so I'd really like to see your requirements about what measurments you'd need from the fonts.  Also, where you'd need the used-font-info to be used."
16:16:06 <david_stroup> I'm 585.217
16:16:15 <NickRuffilo> Alan: "All the info in the world isn't useful if you don't know what the browser is actually using.  And where they're drawing the fonts in the font box."
16:16:16 <Zakim> -duga
16:16:17 <ivan> zakim, aaee is david_stroup
16:16:18 <Zakim> +david_stroup; got it
16:17:03 <NickRuffilo> Peter - ** Action item - send MathML interests to be discussed with the Houdini group
16:17:09 <Zakim> +duga
16:17:09 <tzviya> action gather font metric info from MathWG for Houdini
16:17:09 <trackbot> Error finding 'gather'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/track/users>.
16:17:45 <ivan> action pkra to gather font metric info from the MathWG for Houdini
16:17:45 <trackbot> Created ACTION-48 - Gather font metric info from the mathwg for houdini [on Peter Krautzberger - due 2015-03-09].
16:18:18 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: "Question to all - what would you like from DPUB going forward?"
16:19:10 <NickRuffilo> Alan? : "If any of you are involved with scripting projects that do custom layouts/drawing, that CSS doesn't do today, if there are problems/hacks, please let us know/post them to Houdini.  Will help guide the work that we are doing."
16:19:23 <tzviya> q?
16:19:29 <ivan> q+
16:19:34 <tzviya> ack ivan
16:19:36 <NickRuffilo> ... : "Microsoft group is heavily interested in Pagination...  As with DigiPub..."
16:20:23 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "Question is - what kind of time do you expect before we will see a result that the publishing world can directly use?  Taking into account the real-interest from the core web-engine/browser vendors..."
16:21:07 <NickRuffilo> Alan: "Too early to guess.  Hasn't been movements on the documents since the meeting ended.  Best scenario is some movement on custom properties in the next few months.  The adoption will make CSS polyfills MUCH easier to create."
16:21:31 <tzviya> q?
16:21:32 <NickRuffilo> ... : "Then might see some movement on other items, like FontMetrics, but those are the only ones we'll see adoption in the next year or so.  The rest are long-term planning."
16:21:42 <dauwhe> q+
16:21:42 <NickRuffilo> ...: "I'm being pessimistic..."
16:22:04 <tzviya> ack dauwhe
16:22:25 <NickRuffilo> Dave: "One more possibly helpful thing - if people see some of these ideas as being useful to them - talk to the iBooks team couldn't hurt anyway.
16:22:39 <NickRuffilo> ... : "Would get webkit to work on some of these features..."
16:23:02 <NickRuffilo> ... : "Also note that Houdini was discussed at the tags meeting as well."
16:23:26 <NickRuffilo> ... : "IRC logs for that meeting [can someone post link?] might provide some useful perspective"
16:24:05 <ivan> Topic: call for comments from CSS WG on CSS fragmentation module level 3
16:24:05 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: "Next time - call for comments on Working Draft of CSS Fragmentation Module Level 3"
16:24:11 <tzviya> http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-break/
16:24:28 <pkra> bedtime reading.
16:25:51 <NickRuffilo> !!!!!! - have to go, scribe out
16:26:22 <ivan> scribenick: tzviya
16:26:23 <ivan> scribenick: liza
16:26:33 <tzviya> volunteers to review and comment: brady, liza
16:26:37 <ivan> scribenick: tzviya
16:26:58 <liza> SOUNDS THRILLING
16:27:01 <ivan> q+
16:27:04 <tzviya> ack ivan
16:27:37 <tzviya> ivan: how does this relate to Houdini?
16:28:24 <tzviya> astearns: ??? sees a need for additional breaking opportunities, but needs to fill in what that need is
16:28:43 <tzviya> tzviya: will the fragmentation spec serve as a stop-gap?
16:29:07 <ivan> s/???/Rossen/
16:29:29 <tzviya> astearns: Frag spec includes some really good information for how to break pages, etc. But, Brady's use cases have many more requirements
16:29:45 <tzviya> ...such as letting a script know where a page starts
16:29:56 <tzviya> ... this will be filled in by Houdini
16:29:59 <tzviya> q?
16:30:20 <dauwhe> scribenick: dauwhe
16:30:23 <ivan> scribenick: dauwhe
16:30:27 <dauwhe> topic: epub3.1 work plan
16:30:37 <tzviya> topic: IDPF Workplans
16:30:49 <dauwhe> tzviya: this came up at edupub meeting in sunny Arizona
16:30:53 <Ayla_Stein> Wait until May/June
16:30:54 <astearns> s/by Houdini/by Houdini in the Fragment Tree doc/
16:31:17 <ivan> scribenick: NickRuffilo
16:31:19 <dauwhe> scribenick: NickRuffilo
16:31:22 <pbelfanti> Apologies, I need to drop
16:31:26 <Zakim> -kwkbtr
16:31:41 <Zakim> -pbelfanti
16:31:50 <Zakim> +??P26
16:31:57 <kwkbtr> Zakim, ??P26 is me
16:31:57 <Zakim> +kwkbtr; got it
16:32:22 <ivan> Markus' slides from the meeting: http://bit.ly/1AwoYW4
16:32:27 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya: "Epub 3.1 was released severl months ago.  Bug fixes, and ISO wording + backwards compatibiliyt.  Marcus opened up floor for next version.  There was lots of discussion about what might be done, no formal decisions.  3d format as a core media type.  Migration of epub type to role attribute.  Expression extended presentations from doc..."
16:33:04 <NickRuffilo> ... : "One example - using the filmstrip to see what document looks like on the inside.  Some possible deprication of things for epub - such as switch tag.  No discussion on timeline, so not sure when work is getting started."
16:33:17 <tzviya> zakim, who is noisy?
16:33:17 <Zakim> I am sorry, tzviya; I don't have the necessary resources to track talkers right now
16:33:42 <pkra> yes.
16:34:07 <NickRuffilo> ... : "Goal of ePub 3 is to go in a webby-ier direction.  So the work is towards a convergence."
16:34:20 <tzviya> q?
16:34:44 <NickRuffilo> Brady : "At this point, we're still trying to decide what the direction of 3.1 is, so if you have a voice, we can hear it.  Gathering requirements is now.  Not sure on direction as we're listening."
16:34:59 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya : If you think something is missing, please comment.  CSS Profile?
16:35:21 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya : Contact Marcus with your thoughts/suggestions.  No official timeline
16:35:51 <david_stroup> Apologies, I need to drop as well...
16:35:51 <Zakim> -david_stroup
16:36:18 <NickRuffilo> Bill? : Instead of providing ways to embed more and more metadata within the epub, be able to embed a link to an authoritative service [nick - such as DOI, etc]
16:36:33 <NickRuffilo> ... : One reason I bring this up, is that it relates to recent identifiers work
16:36:40 <tzviya> s/Bill?/Bill_Kasdorf
16:36:40 <ivan> s/Bill/Bill_Kasdorf/
16:37:02 <NickRuffilo> ... : Grand total of 1 volunteer for Identifier work, so if you want to help PLEASE do
16:37:25 <NickRuffilo> Ivan: "On road + vacations, Jerry? and I will work with you."
16:37:35 <NickRuffilo> Jerry: "Identifier wiki is done: Link below:"
16:37:40 <tzviya> s/Jerry/Thierry
16:38:11 <NickRuffilo> Julie : "Are there clear timelines on the taskforce page as to when they are starting?"
16:38:22 <NickRuffilo> Tzviya : "Cleanup is needed, we need to work on this.  "
16:38:25 <tmichel> the identifiers wiki is available from
16:38:27 <tmichel> http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Main_Page
16:38:44 <tmichel> and is set at http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/Task_Forces/identifiers
16:38:49 <NickRuffilo> ...: " This is the beginning of conference season, but we should work on updating timelines and making sure that data on the wiki is accurate"
16:39:12 <NickRuffilo> ...: " Maybe next meeting have a check-in with task forces to ensure updated data."
16:39:23 <tzviya> q?
16:39:50 <Zakim> -MikeMiller
16:39:51 <Zakim> -liza
16:39:51 <Zakim> -Karen_Myers
16:39:53 <Zakim> -Ayla_Stein
16:39:53 <Zakim> -Bill_Kasdorf
16:39:54 <Zakim> -dauwhe
16:39:54 <Zakim> -TimCole
16:39:55 <Zakim> -Julie_Morris
16:39:55 <Zakim> -duga
16:39:55 <Zakim> -pkra
16:39:56 <Zakim> -kwkbtr
16:39:56 <Zakim> -Vlad
16:39:58 <Zakim> -NickRuffilo
16:39:59 <Zakim> -bjdmeest
16:40:03 <Zakim> -Stearns
16:40:16 <Zakim> -murakami
16:40:17 <tmichel> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:40:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/03/02-dpub-minutes.html tmichel
16:40:46 <tzviya> zakim, who is here?
16:40:46 <Zakim> On the phone I see Tzviya, clapierre, Ivan, dkaplan3, tmichel, Markus, lfowler
16:40:49 <Zakim> On IRC I see Laura_Fowler, mgylling, Bill_Kasdorf, Julie_Morris, kwkbtr, dauwhe, clapierre, Ayla_Stein, tmichel, tzviya, Vlad, NickRuffilo, Zakim, RRSAgent, ivan, pkra, liam,
16:40:49 <Zakim> ... dkaplan3, rego, iank, mihnea_____, plinss, Karen, astearns, trackbot
16:41:23 <Zakim> -tmichel
16:44:34 <Zakim> -lfowler
16:52:05 <dauwhe_> dauwhe_ has joined #dpub
17:00:04 <Zakim> -Markus
17:00:05 <Zakim> -dkaplan3
17:00:05 <Zakim> -clapierre
17:00:07 <Zakim> -Tzviya
17:00:07 <Zakim> -Ivan
17:00:08 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has ended
17:00:08 <Zakim> Attendees were Stearns, Tzviya, duga, +1.617.426.aaaa, +1.217.300.aabb, clapierre, liza, murakami, dauwhe, NickRuffilo, Ivan, +1.781.970.aacc, pkra, Karen_Myers, kwkbtr, Vlad,
17:00:08 <Zakim> ... dkaplan3, +1.646.336.aadd, Julie_Morris, Bill_Kasdorf, Ayla_Stein, tmichel, bjdmeest, pbelfanti, Markus, MikeMiller, lfowler, TimCole, +1.585.217.aaee, david_stroup
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