15:59:49 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #webtv
15:59:49 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/02/25-webtv-irc
15:59:55 <kaz> zakim, this will be webtv
15:59:55 <Zakim> I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, kaz
16:00:01 <kaz> zakim, this will be ggie
16:00:01 <Zakim> ok, kaz, I see WEBT_GGIE TF()11:00AM already started
16:00:07 <kaz> zakim, call kazuyuki-617
16:00:07 <Zakim> ok, kaz; the call is being made
16:00:08 <Zakim> +Kazuyuki
16:00:32 <kaz> zakim, who is here?
16:00:33 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.860.313.aaaa, +1.818.777.aabb, Leslie_Daigle, +1.913.241.aacc, Kazuyuki
16:00:33 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz, glennD, ldaigle, NiloM, BillRose, jcverdie_, richt, MarkS, timeless, tobie, schuki, trackbot
16:01:00 <glennD> Agenda for todays call
16:01:15 <glennD> 1. Approval of meeting minutes from 2/11/2015
16:01:19 <glennD> 2. agenda bash
16:01:20 <NiloM> +1.913.841 is NiloM
16:01:32 <Zakim> + +1.202.429.aadd
16:01:37 <Zakim> + +1.813.508.aaee
16:01:37 <glennD> 3. Use Cases in Wiki review & discuss
16:01:46 <glennD> 4. next set of cases to focus on
16:01:46 <Zakim> + +8339aaff
16:01:53 <kaz> zakim, aacc is NiloM
16:01:53 <Zakim> +NiloM; got it
16:01:58 <glennD> https://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/GGIE_TF/UseCases#Use_Cases
16:02:00 <kaz> zakim, who is here?
16:02:00 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.860.313.aaaa, +1.818.777.aabb, Leslie_Daigle, NiloM, Kazuyuki, +1.202.429.aadd, +1.813.508.aaee, +8339aaff
16:02:03 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz, glennD, ldaigle, NiloM, BillRose, jcverdie_, richt, MarkS, timeless, tobie, schuki, trackbot
16:02:30 <azamlerc> azamlerc has joined #webtv
16:02:51 <mark_vickers> mark_vickers has joined #webtv
16:02:55 <BillRose> Glenn did a role call by region
16:03:06 <Zakim> + +1.818.777.aagg
16:03:10 <azamlerc> Hi folks. Andrew Zamler-Carhat, Cisco France
16:03:11 <ldaigle> glenn
16:03:14 <ldaigle> your audio is busted
16:03:24 <Zakim> - +1.818.777.aabb
16:03:35 <kaz> zakim, who is here?
16:03:36 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.860.313.aaaa, Leslie_Daigle, NiloM, Kazuyuki, +1.202.429.aadd, +1.813.508.aaee, +8339aaff, +1.818.777.aagg
16:03:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see mark_vickers, azamlerc, RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz, glennD, ldaigle, NiloM, BillRose, jcverdie_, richt, MarkS, timeless, tobie, schuki, trackbot
16:03:43 <Zakim> + +1.908.745.aahh
16:03:51 <Zakim> + +1.415.802.aaii
16:03:57 <Zakim> +Mark_Vickers
16:04:13 <MikeW> MikeW has joined #webtv
16:04:26 <Zakim> + +1.818.777.aajj
16:04:48 <BillRose> Glenn had to hang up and call back in to fix audio
16:04:53 <alex_deacon> alex_deacon has joined #webtv
16:05:17 <azamlerc> Andrew Zamler-Carhart, Cisco France
16:05:21 <kaz> zakim, aaii is alex_deacon
16:05:21 <Zakim> +alex_deacon; got it
16:05:25 <BillRose> Bill Rose is acting as scribe
16:05:31 <kaz> zakim, who is here?
16:05:31 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.860.313.aaaa, Leslie_Daigle, NiloM, Kazuyuki, +1.202.429.aadd, +1.813.508.aaee, +8339aaff, +1.818.777.aagg, +1.908.745.aahh, alex_deacon, Mark_Vickers,
16:05:34 <Zakim> ... +1.818.777.aajj
16:05:34 <Zakim> On IRC I see alex_deacon, MikeW, mark_vickers, azamlerc, RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz, glennD, ldaigle, NiloM, BillRose, jcverdie_, richt, MarkS, timeless, tobie, schuki, trackbot
16:05:44 <ldaigle> Leslie Daigle is here on the east coast
16:06:50 <BillRose> Glenn called for the approval of last meeting minutes - there were approved without change
16:07:16 <BillRose> Use Cases discussion
16:07:17 <Zakim> -Kazuyuki
16:07:17 <PaulG-ATT> PaulG-ATT has joined #webtv
16:07:29 <kaz> zakim, call kazuyuki-617
16:07:29 <Zakim> ok, kaz; the call is being made
16:07:31 <Zakim> +Kazuyuki
16:07:49 <JP> JP has joined #webtv
16:08:10 <JP> link again?
16:08:29 <kaz> zakim, drop me
16:08:29 <Zakim> Kazuyuki is being disconnected
16:08:31 <Zakim> -Kazuyuki
16:08:33 <kaz> zakim, call kazuyuki-617
16:08:34 <Zakim> ok, kaz; the call is being made
16:08:34 <Zakim> +Kazuyuki
16:08:41 <BillRose> Glenn called for everyone to pull up the link to the Use Cases for discussion. It includes a template.
16:09:02 <kaz> zakim, who is here?
16:09:02 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.860.313.aaaa, Leslie_Daigle, NiloM, Kazuyuki, +1.202.429.aadd, +1.813.508.aaee, +8339aaff, +1.818.777.aagg, +1.908.745.aahh, alex_deacon, Mark_Vickers,
16:09:03 <azamlerc> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/GGIE_TF/UseCases
16:09:05 <Zakim> ... +1.818.777.aajj
16:09:05 <Zakim> On IRC I see JP, PaulG-ATT, alex_deacon, MikeW, mark_vickers, azamlerc, RRSAgent, Zakim, kaz, glennD, ldaigle, NiloM, BillRose, jcverdie_, richt, MarkS, timeless, tobie, schuki,
16:09:05 <Zakim> ... trackbot
16:09:30 <BillRose> Glenn asked for everyone to review and comment on the Contents, terminology, etc.
16:09:32 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
16:09:38 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:09:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/25-webtv-minutes.html kaz
16:10:13 <kaz> Meeting: Web&TV IG GGIE TF
16:10:14 <BillRose> Glenn will assign the identifiers and keep them unique and orderly
16:10:37 <jianz> jianz has joined #webtv
16:10:39 <kaz> Chair: Glenn
16:10:49 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:10:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/25-webtv-minutes.html kaz
16:11:17 <BillRose> Glenn populated the WiKi with 3 Use Cases to start the discussion
16:12:17 <BillRose> Glenn discussed the first Use Case - UC-1 Basic Steamed Content Viewing
16:14:14 <BillRose> Glenn - trivial UC. It does not discuss how it is done, buffering, etc. Not real world. Mainly identifies the actors as an exercise in writing a UC.
16:15:09 <BillRose> Glenn - UC-2 Streamed Content Viewing. This is a bit more realistic.
16:15:58 <BillRose> Glenn - instead of a single URL a manifest is returned by the source to the app listing multiple sources
16:16:07 <Zakim> -Mark_Vickers
16:16:25 <Zakim> +Mark_Vickers
16:16:37 <mark_vickers> mark_vickers has joined #webtv
16:17:47 <JP_Intel> JP_Intel has joined #webtv
16:18:00 <BillRose> Glenn - app (sender) is in control instead of the receiver. App can control flow rate, buffers, fill rate, bit rates, etc. for optimization
16:18:55 <Zakim> + +33.4.89.12.aakk
16:18:59 <BillRose> Nilo - Is this to describe adaptive streaming?
16:19:25 <BillRose> Glenn - yes, one of the things introduced is adaptive streaming. Are there changes needed to the UC?
16:20:33 <BillRose> Nilo - can be read in several ways - same content is stored in multiple locations yet it appears to imply the files may have different representations.
16:21:54 <BillRose> Glenn - thinking was that so much work has been done on ABR (e.g. DADH) that we don't need to go into those details. More for exposing actors and concepts. Would it be helpful to introduce more?
16:22:23 <BillRose> Correction - DASH, not DADH
16:22:43 <BillRose> Glenn - will add more on what could be in the manifest to clarify
16:23:40 <BillRose> Glenn - UC-3 Identifying Streamed Content
16:24:47 <JP_Intel> Sorry, can someone indicate where these UCs can be retrieved?
16:24:57 <BillRose> Glenn - builds on UC-2 but adds viewer interactions. Viewer selects an asset from the list sent by sender and send request for specific content
16:25:04 <Zakim> + +1.858.202.aall
16:25:09 <NiloM> http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/wiki/GGIE_TF/UseCases
16:25:12 <BillRose> Glenn - key point is to obtain an identifier
16:25:19 <JP_Intel> Thank you
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16:26:17 <BillRose> Glenn - identifier describes what is being played but not format, resolution, etc. Different versions will have different identifiers e.g. EIDR but no other information about the file.
16:27:29 <BillRose> Glenn - If 2 identifiers are equal, then the content is equal in terms of sequence of frames, frames included, etc. but no info on format properties.
16:27:54 <BillRose> Question - what might the differences be between 2 "equal" IDs?
16:28:46 <BillRose> Glenn - 2 copies of a Directors cut of a movie may be equal but in different resolutions - SD/HD. Based on how EIDR works today
16:29:25 <BillRose> Glenn - different compression could be used.
16:30:26 <BillRose> Nilo - In example of 2 Directors Cut versions, are you saying SD/HD may have same EIDR?
16:31:57 <BillRose> Glenn - It may have same ID but does not have to. Depends on what is registered with EIDR. Arranging to have someone from EIDR to talk to this group and answer questions. Posted link to EIDR for the group.
16:33:12 <BillRose> Andrew - Useful to look at EIDR as a starting point but not the only one to look at. Is is a flat or hierarchical? Does not seem to include enough info.
16:34:32 <Zakim> - +1.908.745.aahh
16:34:39 <BillRose> Glenn - their view is not hierachical in that it does not include e.g. geo info. Issue a new EIDR for different versions. But they maintain additional info for each EIDR registered that can be accessed.
16:35:45 <BillRose> Glenn - long ID has more information such as registrant name but much of the info is not included in the ID.
16:38:00 <BillRose> Glenn - described 3 ways to extract unique ID - from metadata;  from imbedded watermark (audio or video); or from fingerprint
16:39:56 <BillRose> Glenn - 2 things to do with extracted ID - record/report for measurement/logging; Form a URI to be used with other video content sources to uniquely identify the content being viewed
16:40:58 <BillRose> Glenn - URI can be used to locate additional caches of the content to improve viewing experience
16:42:20 <BillRose> Glenn - today there is no univeral standard way to ID content, use fingerprint to ID, create URI based on an ID, etc.
16:45:56 <mark_vickers> mark_vickers has joined #webtv
16:48:32 <mark_vickers> EIDR example (click on "Relationships" tab to see hierarchy): https://ui.eidr.org/view/content?id=10.5240/6933-25C9-299D-671A-24FB-V
16:51:22 <BillRose> Glenn - Action Item; Create new UC where extraction is the first step
16:52:20 <BillRose> Action Item- ? List metadata included in the watermark by creator at creation and added downstream by the work flow
16:52:20 <trackbot> Error finding 'Item-'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/2011/webtv/track/users>.
16:53:49 <BillRose> Glenn - We will need to capture how to identify whether a cache has the entire file versus portions of the file at e.g. a CDN? Is anyone willing to take this UC as an action item/
16:55:21 <BillRose> Question - From user perspective I search and get back a set of URIs for the content which can be used to obtain the content, switch to a new URL if there is an interuption, etc.
16:58:03 <BillRose> Glenn - Yes this is one of the goals of GGIE. The metadata can be used to resolve information associated with content for use throughout the workflow, user, delivery, etc. Current CDNs have a basket of "tricks" to aid in the delivery of the content. But they have very little info from the client.
16:58:37 <BillRose> Glenn - part of the idea here is to discuss information that the client could contribute to improve CDN performance.
16:59:52 <JP_Intel> Sorry, Glenn, but I need to drop now due to a conflcit. Will discuss offline by e-mail about introducing what you need for Content Identifier extraction.
17:00:17 <BillRose> Leslie - Glenn is describing how best to find the optimum version for delivery to the client/user. But I think I heard Nilo ask how does a user find the "Directors Cut" itself?
17:00:36 <Zakim> - +33.4.89.12.aakk
17:01:43 <BillRose> Nilo - seems there are several levels of resolution required - "I want a copy of the Directors Cut"; Second level of resolution includes optimizing locating the optimal flow from cache to client.
17:02:32 <BillRose> Glenn - so user experience is search/discovery - not network layer. What is available to watch?
17:03:19 <BillRose> ? - Also what is available from your service(s)/provider(s) versus what is available in general.
17:03:58 <BillRose> Glenn - yes. Could also include other formats, languages, etc., which may be aviable on a different service on a different device.
17:04:22 <kaz> zakim, who is speaking?
17:04:33 <Zakim> kaz, listening for 10 seconds I heard sound from the following: +1.860.313.aaaa (57%), NiloM (4%), +1.818.777.aajj (93%)
17:04:44 <BillRose> Andrew - - Yes - same content might also be available from multiple providers I have access to. Would like to see all and choose myself.
17:05:11 <BillRose> Glenn - Anyone willing to write a rough flow of several of these concepts. Nilo, Andrew?
17:05:24 <BillRose> Nilo, Andrew - yes.
17:05:54 <BillRose> Nilo - already available using e.g. Google.
17:06:23 <BillRose> Nilo - I thought this is what GGIE is focused on.
17:06:45 <BillRose> Andrew - more technical people may be capable of using Google but many are not.
17:08:25 <BillRose> Glenn - The stuff from Google contains what they have discovered and put into results they think you want to see. Different from accurate/complete results tailored to the user's actual services, clients, etc. GGIE can contribute to this area of a user centric focus.
17:08:48 <Zakim> -alex_deacon
17:08:52 <BillRose> Glenn - about all content including user content, not just commercial content
17:09:05 <BillRose> Andrew - not describing world today, but what it could be
17:09:59 <BillRose> Glenn will try to populate additional UCs. Anyone can contact him to add to the UCs.
17:10:43 <BillRose> Glenn - next meeting: March 11, 11:00 AM ET.
17:10:43 <Zakim> - +1.818.777.aagg
17:10:44 <Zakim> -Mark_Vickers
17:10:44 <Zakim> -Leslie_Daigle
17:10:46 <Zakim> -NiloM
17:10:47 <Zakim> - +1.813.508.aaee
17:10:48 <Zakim> - +1.858.202.aall
17:10:48 <Zakim> - +1.818.777.aajj
17:10:50 <Zakim> - +8339aaff
17:10:50 <Zakim> -Kazuyuki
17:10:51 <Zakim> - +1.860.313.aaaa
17:10:52 <azamlerc> Laters
17:11:05 <ldaigle> ldaigle has left #webtv
17:11:21 <Zakim> - +1.202.429.aadd
17:11:22 <Zakim> WEBT_GGIE TF()11:00AM has ended
17:11:22 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.860.313.aaaa, +1.818.777.aabb, Leslie_Daigle, +1.913.241.aacc, Kazuyuki, +1.202.429.aadd, +1.813.508.aaee, +8339aaff, NiloM, +1.818.777.aagg, +1.908.745.aahh,
17:11:22 <Zakim> ... +1.415.802.aaii, Mark_Vickers, +1.818.777.aajj, alex_deacon, +33.4.89.12.aakk, +1.858.202.aall
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23:26:23 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/02/25-webtv-irc
23:26:55 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
23:26:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/25-webtv-minutes.html kaz