18:02:25 RRSAgent has joined #ua 18:02:25 logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/02/19-ua-irc 18:02:27 RRSAgent, make logs public 18:02:27 Zakim has joined #ua 18:02:29 Zakim, this will be WAI_UAWG 18:02:29 ok, trackbot; I see WAI_UAWG()1:00PM scheduled to start 2 minutes ago 18:02:30 Meeting: User Agent Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference 18:02:30 Date: 19 February 2015 18:02:43 zakim, code? 18:02:43 the conference code is 82941 (tel:+1.617.761.6200 sip:zakim@voip.w3.org), Jan 18:02:52 WAI_UAWG()1:00PM has now started 18:02:59 +Jeanne 18:03:16 +[IPcaller] 18:03:30 zakim, [IPcaller] is really Jan 18:03:30 +Jan; got it 18:03:46 allanj has joined #ua 18:04:18 rrsagent, set logs public 18:04:26 +Jim_Allan 18:04:35 +Kim_Patch 18:05:00 regrets: greg 18:05:05 chair: Jim Allan 18:05:11 scribe: allanj 18:07:25 Agenda+ Publish 18:07:26 Agenda+ Exit Criteria https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2015JanMar/0036.html 18:07:28 Agenda+ implementations 18:08:50 Kim has joined #ua 18:09:46 rrsagent, make minues 18:09:46 I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minues', allanj. Try /msg RRSAgent help 18:09:52 rrsagent, make minutes 18:09:52 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/19-ua-minutes.html allanj 18:17:40 open item 1 18:18:04 topic: Publishing 18:22:46 js: after house keeping, publish week of Mar 16, with 3 weeks for comments 18:23:18 close item 1 18:23:29 open item 2 18:23:42 Topic: Exit Criteria 18:23:54 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-ua/2015JanMar/0036.html 18:26:27 current wording: 18:26:47 1. Define test cases: Complete a set of tests needed to cover all UAAG normative success criteria. 18:27:19 perhaps update instead of complete 18:27:35 2. Test Implementations: Perform these tests and verify independent results on user agents, and to the extent needed, combinations of users agents and extensions. 18:29:16 missing coverage...at least 2 implementations 18:29:27 2. Test Implementations: Perform these tests and verify at least two independent results on user agents, and to the extent needed, combinations of users agents and extensions. 18:33:09 discussion of extensions. need to add informative bit about free, updated, accessible installer etc. 18:33:58 Note on Independent Implementations: 18:33:59 a) Success criteria that rely solely on the rendering engine of the user agent (e.g. x.x.x) will need implementations of two different rendering engines. 18:38:22 added examples 18:38:29 b) Success criteria that rely solely with the user agent user interface (e.g. x.x.x) may have implementations using the same rendering engine. 18:40:47 b) Success criteria that rely on the user agent user interface 18:40:47 (e.g. x.x.x) may have implementations using the same rendering engine. 18:42:49 jr: overarching principle. any feature need 2 implementations (UI) and 2 resultant rendering implementations 18:43:17 Implementations features that satisfy a specific success criteria (plugins, extensions or user agents) must be from different code bases in order to be considered independent. 18:46:36 if you have chrome and opera (2 different UIs), they both use Blink rendering engine 18:46:57 the test is to see if they allow the user to set something (a UI) 18:47:09 we assume that it will be rendered appropriately 18:48:44 the setting will be rendered appropriately 18:48:54 we will still need to verify the rendering 18:49:07 The goal is to have independent implementations for each success criteria, while taking into account that other software components (that are not connected to the success criteria being tested), may be shared. 18:49:35 example: 1.8.3 Provide Viewport Scrollbars: 18:49:37 When the rendered content extends beyond the viewport dimensions, users can have graphical viewports include scrollbars, overriding any values specified by the author. (Level A) 18:50:03 1.4.1 Text Scale, Color, Font (Globally): 18:50:20 1.4.2 Text Size, Color and Font (by Element): 18:52:05 b) Success criteria that rely on the user agent user interface 18:52:05 (e.g. 1.4.1, 1.4.2) may have implementations using the same rendering engine. In the 1.4.1 where the user can set a preference for a default font size, the independent implementations are the user interface where the preference can be set. The rendering can share a code base, since that is not what is being tested in the success criteria. 18:52:11 The goal is to have independent implementations for each success criteria, while taking into account that other software components (that are not connected to the success criteria being tested), may be shared. 18:52:12 For example: 18:52:14 - Success criteria that are implemented at the rendering engine level must be demonstrated by browsers that use different rendering engines. 18:52:15 - Success criteria that are not implemented at the rendering engine level can be demonstrated by browsers share a common rendering engine. 18:53:24 - Success criteria that are not implemented at the User interface level (a setting) the results can be demonstrated by browsers share a common rendering engine. 18:53:38 - Success criteria that are implemented at the User interface level (a setting) the results can be demonstrated by browsers share a common rendering engine. 18:54:14 The goal is to have independent implementations for each success criteria, while taking into account that other software components (that are not connected to the success criteria being tested), may be shared. 18:54:15 For example: 18:54:17 - Success criteria that are implemented at the rendering engine level must be demonstrated by browsers that use different rendering engines. 18:54:18 - Success criteria that are not implemented at the rendering engine level can be demonstrated by browsers that share a common rendering engine. 18:54:20 - Success criteria that are implemented by extensions can be demonstrated by two independent extensions to the same user agent. 18:55:19 suggested replacement for #2 - Success criteria that are implemented at the User interface level (a setting) the results can be demonstrated by browsers share a common rendering engine. 18:55:46 - Success criteria that are implemented at the User interface level (a setting) the results can be demonstrated by browsers that share a common rendering engine. 18:56:43 suggested replacement for #2 - Success criteria that are implemented at the User interface level (set by the user) the results can be demonstrated by browsers share a common rendering engine. 18:57:06 suggested replacement for #2 - Success criteria that are implemented at the User interface level (set by the user) the results can be demonstrated by browsers that share a common rendering engine.. 18:58:25 Success criteria that are implemented at the User interface level (set by the user) can demonstrate the results with browsers that share a common rendering engine. 19:00:03 For success criteria that are implemented at the user interface level (set by the user), independent results can be demonstrated by browsers that share a common rendering engine. 19:01:50 For success criteria that are only implemented at the user interface level (e.g. x.y.z), independent results can be demonstrated by browsers that share a common rendering engine. 19:02:32 1.8.3 Provide Viewport Scrollbars: 19:03:44 1.8.13 Allow Same User Interface: 19:07:28 - Success criteria that are implemented at the rendering engine level must be demonstrated by browsers that use different rendering engines. 19:07:29 - For success criteria that are only implemented at the user interface level (e.g. something set by a user), independent results can be demonstrated by browsers that share a common rendering engine. 19:07:31 - Success criteria that are implemented by extensions can be demonstrated by two independent extensions to the same user agent. 19:07:59 chrome and opera cannot both be used for what 19:08:30 js: maintain point of regard, indicate unrendered content 19:09:31 jr: how big is this issue? 19:10:03 js: html had to have different rendering engines 19:10:11 http://www.w3.org/TR/2011/CR-wai-aria-20110118/ 19:11:41 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/1.0/CR/implementation-report 19:12:28 http://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/1.0/CR/implementation-report#test_results 19:20:24 blink is used in Chrome starting at version 28,[6][7] Opera (15+),[6] Amazon Silk and other Chromium based browsers as well as Android's (4.4+) WebView and Qt's WebEngine. 19:22:03 web browsers using Gecko include Airfox, Waterfox, K-Meleon, Lunascape, Pale Moon, Portable Firefox, Conkeror, Classilla, TenFourFox, HP Secure Web Browser, Oxygen and Sylera (for mobile). 19:24:32 browsers using Trident IE, AOL, Avant, Nintendo, QQ, etc. 19:27:24 webkit browsers. Dolphin, Safari, iCab, webOS 19:29:55 if we choose 4 rendering engines and 4 UIs are we covered 19:31:13 how do we tell which SC are in the UI and which are in the rendering engine 19:32:36 http://w3c.github.io/UAAG/UAAG20-Reference/ 19:32:54 JR suggests listing the few SC that must have two separate rendering engines 19:33:34 rrsagent, make minutes 19:33:34 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/19-ua-minutes.html allanj 19:34:10 d) Implementations (plugins, extensions or user agents) must be from different code bases in order to be considered independent. 19:34:56 kp: 2 separate plugins for same UA doesnt work? 19:37:02 continue with d) Implementations (plugins, extensions or user agents) must be from different code bases in order to be considered independent. finalize the exit criteria 19:37:12 -Jim_Allan 19:37:14 -Kim_Patch 19:37:18 rrsagent, make minutes 19:37:18 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/19-ua-minutes.html allanj 19:37:23 zakim, please part 19:37:23 leaving. As of this point the attendees were Jeanne, Jan, Jim_Allan, Kim_Patch 19:37:23 Zakim has left #ua 19:37:28 rrsagent, make minutes 19:37:28 I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/19-ua-minutes.html allanj 19:37:54 rrsagent, please part 19:37:54 I see no action items