15:48:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
15:48:42 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/02/17-wai-wcag-irc
15:48:44 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:48:46 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
15:48:46 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 12 minutes
15:48:47 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
15:48:47 <trackbot> Date: 17 February 2015
15:48:50 <Joshue> zakim, agenda?
15:48:50 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
15:49:02 <Joshue> agenda+ Publication approval of Techniques and Understanding documents.
15:49:17 <Joshue> agenda+ Publication Approval of Tables tutorial
15:49:21 <Joshue> agenda+ Quickref update
15:49:30 <Joshue> agenda+ Update on Mobile TF note
15:49:36 <Joshue> Chair: Joshue
15:50:00 <Joshue> regrets+ Kun Zhang
15:50:32 <Joshue> Scribe list:https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
15:54:37 <Kathy> Kathy has joined #wai-wcag
15:58:17 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has now started
15:58:24 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:58:26 <Joshue> zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
15:58:26 <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
15:58:58 <Zakim> yatil, you asked to be pinged at this time
15:59:46 <Mike_Pluke> Mike_Pluke has joined #wai-wcag
16:00:44 <Zakim> + +1.978.760.aaaa
16:01:04 <Kathy> zakim, aaaa is me
16:01:04 <Zakim> +Kathy; got it
16:01:18 <Zakim> +Katie_Haritos-Shea
16:02:29 <cstrobbe> cstrobbe has joined #wai-wcag
16:02:48 <MoeKraft> MoeKraft has joined #wai-wcag
16:02:59 <Joshue> http://www.git-scm.com/book/en/v2
16:03:06 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
16:03:23 <Mike_Pluke> Can't (yet) get audio connected - no chance to enter passcode
16:03:32 <Zakim> +MoeKraft
16:03:33 <Zakim> +Marc_Johlic
16:03:40 <Zakim> +cstrobbe
16:03:45 <Mike_Elledge> Mike_Elledge has joined #wai-wcag
16:03:59 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:04:19 <cstrobbe> zakim, why is zakim being phased out?
16:04:19 <Zakim> I don't understand your question, cstrobbe.
16:04:30 <yatil> zakim, call EricE-Skype
16:04:30 <Zakim> ok, yatil; the call is being made
16:04:32 <Zakim> +EricE
16:04:32 <Zakim> + +1.313.390.aabb
16:04:58 <yatil> zakim, nick yatil is EricE
16:04:58 <yatil> zakim, mute me
16:04:58 <Zakim> ok, yatil, I now associate you with EricE
16:04:59 <Zakim> EricE should now be muted
16:05:36 <Joshue> zakim, aabb is Mike_Elledge
16:05:36 <Zakim> +Mike_Elledge; got it
16:06:01 <Mike_Elledge> +1
16:06:04 <Joshue> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:06:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see Joshue, Kathy, Katie_Haritos-Shea, MoeKraft, Marc_Johlic, cstrobbe, [IPcaller], Mike_Elledge, EricE (muted)
16:06:37 <Joshue> zakim, [IPcaller] is Mike_Pluke
16:06:37 <Zakim> +Mike_Pluke; got it
16:07:50 <Joshue> Scribenick: Moe K
16:08:03 <yatil> Scribe: Moe K
16:08:08 <yatil> Scribenick: MoeKraft
16:08:57 <MoeKraft> zakim,next item
16:08:57 <Zakim> agendum 1. "Publication approval of Techniques and Understanding documents." taken up [from Joshue]
16:09:20 <Zakim> +Cooper
16:10:01 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #wai-wcag
16:10:08 <MoeKraft> Joshue: Call to publish shiny and new techniques document
16:10:10 <marcjohlic> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/17thFeb2015/
16:10:16 <marcjohlic> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/17thFeb2015/results
16:10:35 <Loretta> Loretta has joined #wai-wcag
16:10:49 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:10:55 <jon_avila> zakim, I am IPcaller
16:10:55 <Zakim> ok, jon_avila, I now associate you with [IPcaller]
16:11:01 <MoeKraft> Joshue: Looking through results we have several thumbs up, typos found by Christoph
16:12:08 <MoeKraft> Joshue: No showstoppers though?
16:12:19 <MoeKraft> Christoph: There are no show stoppers
16:12:49 <MoeKraft> Joshue: Any objections to publishing the updated techniques and understanding?
16:13:20 <MoeKraft> RESOLUTION: Workgroup has approved publication of Techniques and Understanding documents
16:13:30 <Joshue> regrets+ DavidMacD
16:14:08 <MoeKraft> zakim,next item
16:14:08 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Publication Approval of Tables tutorial" taken up [from Joshue]
16:14:33 <MoeKraft> Joshue: Relates to tutorials final review
16:14:47 <MoeKraft> Joshue: Tables tutorials is ready for final review and approval
16:15:03 <MoeKraft> Joshue: Mostly thumbs up
16:15:11 <MoeKraft> Joshue: Mike has entered some comments
16:15:49 <jon_avila> It is very passive voice.
16:15:56 <MoeKraft> MikeP: Second bullet referred to is missing any meaning.
16:16:21 <MoeKraft> MikeP: Just people using alternate ways to access the data
16:16:49 <MoeKraft> MikeP: I think what it is trying to say, "people can use alternate ways to access the data, for example,"
16:16:59 <MoeKraft> MikeP: Probably just a simple fix
16:17:59 <MoeKraft> Joshue: Please take a look at link from Eric, aka yatil, posted in IRC
16:18:00 <yatil> ack me
16:18:10 <cstrobbe> q+
16:18:17 <MoeKraft> People using alternate ways to access the data, for example by using custom stylesheets to display header cells more prominently, can change text size and colors, and display the information as lists rather than grids.
16:18:35 <MoeKraft> yatil: I have changed the sentence after the comma
16:18:57 <MoeKraft> MikeP: Yes, that works
16:18:59 <marcjohlic> +1
16:19:02 <MoeKraft> +1
16:19:04 <cstrobbe> q-
16:19:06 <Kathy> +1
16:19:26 <MoeKraft> Joshue: Looks a bit funny
16:19:30 <jon_avila> q+
16:19:42 <jon_avila> q?
16:19:45 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
16:20:03 <Loretta> zakim, I am Ipcaller.a
16:20:03 <Zakim> ok, Loretta, I now associate you with [IPcaller.a]
16:20:04 <Joshue> zakim, q?
16:20:05 <Zakim> I see [IPcaller] on the speaker queue
16:20:11 <MoeKraft> John: I think it is a bit passive and not very easy to read
16:20:12 <Joshue> ack [IP
16:20:28 <MoeKraft> John: Maybe split it up into two sentences
16:20:32 <jon_avila> q-
16:21:17 <MoeKraft> Joshue: What's a good first sentence?
16:22:05 <cstrobbe> Proposal: Some people use alternate ways to access the data, for example by using custom stylesheets to display header cells more prominently. Techniques like this enable them to change text size and colors, and display the information as lists rather than grids. (...)
16:22:17 <MoeKraft> John: Some people use alternative ways to access the data such as custom style sheets to emphasize header cells. This allows the user to change text size and colors and display information as lists rather than girds.
16:23:33 <cstrobbe> Revised proposal: Some people use alternative ways to render the data, for example by using custom stylesheets to display header cells more prominently. Techniques like this enable them to change text size and colors, and display the information as lists rather than grids. (...)
16:23:37 <MoeKraft> Joshue: I wouldn't say that using Style sheets is an alternate way to access data. This is a concern for me
16:24:09 <Mike_Elledge> q+
16:24:27 <Joshue> ack mike
16:24:36 <MoeKraft> Mike: A little confusing to me too
16:24:47 <Joshue> +1 to Christohpes text
16:24:49 <jon_avila> UAAG says "user style sheets"
16:25:04 <Joshue> s/Christohpes/Christophe
16:25:05 <MoeKraft> Mike: I'm not sure it reminds me of turning of CSS but not sure what this has to do with tables
16:25:30 <MoeKraft> Mike: Confusing going from tables to list.
16:25:33 <Zakim> -Mike_Pluke
16:25:37 <marcjohlic> s/of CSS/off CSS/
16:25:47 <MoeKraft> Joshue: People use alternate ways to render data... is more appropriate
16:26:19 <MoeKraft> Christoph: Revised proposal: Some people use alternative ways to render the data, for example by using custom stylesheets to display header cells more prominently. Techniques like this enable them to change text size and colors, and display the information as lists rather than grids.
16:26:25 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.aa]
16:26:51 <MoeKraft> John: refer to user style sheets
16:27:04 <MoeKraft> John: fine with display or render but would like to remove passive voice
16:27:45 <MoeKraft> Joshue: Maybe we say alternate style sheets are used to display data
16:28:17 <Mike_Pluke> +1
16:28:18 <jon_avila> or People may use...
16:28:23 <marcjohlic> +1 to Christophe's revised proposal
16:28:45 <MoeKraft> +1 to Christophe's revised proposal
16:28:55 <Kathy> +1
16:28:56 <MoeKraft> Joshue: Maybe need a third bullet for structure
16:28:57 <MoeKraft> +1
16:28:58 <jon_avila> +1
16:28:59 <Loretta> +1
16:29:02 <Mike_Pluke> +1 to Christoph
16:29:05 <yatil> +1
16:29:09 <Joshue> +1 with the addition of something about structure
16:29:26 <Mike_Pluke> q+
16:29:56 <Joshue> ack mike
16:30:00 <Mike_Elledge> q+
16:30:09 <Mike_Elledge> q-
16:30:13 <Mike_Elledge> +1
16:30:24 <MoeKraft> Mike: The first of the two bullets about screen readers is in passive voice too so we lack consistency though.
16:30:37 <MoeKraft> q+
16:30:43 <Joshue> ack Moe
16:30:52 <Joshue> MK: Are we going to add the last sentence?
16:31:34 <MoeKraft> RESOLUTION: Adopt Christophe's edits: Revised proposal: Some people use alternative ways to render the data, for example by using custom stylesheets to display header cells more prominently. Techniques like this enable them to change text size and colors, and display the information as lists rather than grids. In order to allow alternative renderings, table code needs to be properly structured.
16:32:07 <Joshue> zakim, q?
16:32:07 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
16:32:09 <cstrobbe> zakim, mute me
16:32:09 <Zakim> cstrobbe should now be muted
16:32:13 <MoeKraft> Joshue: Mike are you fine with this:
16:32:14 <MoeKraft> ?
16:32:20 <MoeKraft> Mike: I am fine with this
16:32:43 <MoeKraft> RESOLUTION: WG approves publication of the Tables tutorial
16:32:52 <Joshue> zakim, agenda?
16:32:52 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda:
16:32:53 <Zakim> 2. Publication Approval of Tables tutorial [from Joshue]
16:32:53 <Zakim> 3. Quickref update [from Joshue]
16:32:53 <Zakim> 4. Update on Mobile TF note [from Joshue]
16:33:00 <MoeKraft> zakim, next item
16:33:00 <Zakim> agendum 3. "Quickref update" taken up [from Joshue]
16:33:27 <yatil> Topic: Images Tutorial
16:33:32 <yatil> https://w3c.github.io/wai-tutorials/images/complex/#description-containing-textual-information
16:34:21 <MoeKraft> yatil: Complaint was chart data was table and we used aria-describedby
16:35:07 <MoeKraft> yatil: aria-describedby is read out like a string
16:35:34 <yatil> http://www.w3.org/TR/WCAG20-TECHS/ARIA15.html
16:35:37 <MoeKraft> yatil: We've added another example that only uses a paragraph of text as long description. This is just a heads up regarding the additional example.
16:35:47 <MoeKraft> yatil: Related to ARIA Technique 15
16:36:08 <MoeKraft> yatil: There is currently no note that this is not elegant for structured data
16:37:07 <MoeKraft> yatil: Problem if you do not have structured data to describe the chart you really cannot make out the data. This is undesirable.
16:37:30 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
16:37:56 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
16:38:00 <MoeKraft> Joshue: Great stuff
16:38:27 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
16:38:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/17-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
16:38:36 <MoeKraft> Joshue: Eric was giving us a heads up about this images tutorial. We don't need a long review path.
16:39:10 <Joshue> zakim, q?
16:39:10 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
16:39:17 <MoeKraft> Joshue: Will not do another feedback pass about this. Please let us know if you have any furhter questions or comments on Eric's changes by the end of the call
16:39:27 <Joshue> TOPIC: Quickref
16:40:03 <MoeKraft> yatil: There is some progress and I am ready to show you an early mock up
16:40:16 <MoeKraft> yatil: I will send out tomorrow using the mailing list to get some feedback next week
16:40:29 <MoeKraft> yatil: It's really early but we would like to get some feedback at CSUN
16:41:08 <MoeKraft> Joshue: Looking forward to see that
16:41:31 <Joshue> zakim, agenda?
16:41:31 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda:
16:41:32 <Zakim> 3. Quickref update [from Joshue]
16:41:32 <Zakim> 4. Update on Mobile TF note [from Joshue]
16:41:33 <yatil> zakim, mute me
16:41:33 <Zakim> EricE should now be muted
16:41:44 <Joshue> zakim, drop item 3
16:41:44 <Zakim> agendum 3, Quickref update, dropped
16:41:51 <MoeKraft> zakim, next item
16:41:51 <Zakim> agendum 4. "Update on Mobile TF note" taken up [from Joshue]
16:42:12 <MoeKraft> Joshue: Kathy this is all full steam ahead, correct?
16:42:31 <Joshue> zakim, q?
16:42:31 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
16:43:05 <MoeKraft> Kathy: The main difference is the appendix for Mobile was too close to Quickref. Eventually incorporate into quickref with a filter. Since this is a note we need a lot of flags for styling. Summary: Appendix and styling has changed slightly.
16:43:11 <MoeKraft> Kathy: We are ready for publication
16:43:11 <Joshue> http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-TF-Note/MobileQuickRef.html
16:43:36 <MoeKraft> Joshue: Any comments or questions for Kathy?
16:43:52 <MoeKraft> Joshue: We don't need a formal working group review of this?
16:43:55 <MoeKraft> Kathy: No.
16:44:08 <MoeKraft> Kathy: Just wanted to note that we changed the styling
16:44:10 <Mike_Elledge> q+
16:44:23 <Joshue> ack Mike
16:45:00 <Joshue> +q
16:45:55 <MoeKraft> Mike: I noticed when I was looking for resources on Mobile protocol for accessibility I found a WCAG 2.0 criteria and compared to what BBC has put together. Just suggesting if there is an interest to put a reference to the BBC document
16:46:24 <Joshue> -q
16:46:25 <MoeKraft> Kathy: We do provide references and we have documentation on the wiki that is open to the public
16:46:32 <Mike_Pluke> q+
16:46:34 <Kathy> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/mobile-a11y-tf/wiki/Main_Page
16:46:40 <Joshue> ack Mike
16:46:55 <jamesn> q+
16:47:45 <MoeKraft> MikeP: I do most work with European Telecommunications Institute. Not as well put together as BBC. We are overlapping with W3C work. Some work being down with how mobile technologies can be used by persons with a cognitive impairment.
16:48:06 <MoeKraft> MikeP: Talking to Judy about interests in what is going on with Cognitive WG.
16:48:19 <Joshue> http://w3c.github.io/Mobile-A11y-TF-Note/
16:48:31 <MoeKraft> Kathy: Any feedback you have for the Mobile task force we appreciate it.
16:49:04 <MoeKraft> Joshue: The task force door is always open if you want to get more involved
16:49:23 <MoeKraft> Joshue: Also, to move forward we are looking for help with schematic gap analysis
16:49:32 <Joshue> ack james
16:49:50 <MoeKraft> Jim: This quick reference that is posted, is that what we should look at.
16:49:59 <MoeKraft> Kathy: this is part of the note being published
16:50:05 <Joshue> s/jim/james
16:50:08 <MoeKraft> Jim: Seems like a really old version
16:50:18 <MoeKraft> Jim: I don't see ARIA techniques
16:50:43 <MoeKraft> Kathy: There were ARIA techniques but having issues under Android. We are now focusing on HTML and other techniques.
16:50:45 <Joshue> zakim,q?
16:50:47 <Zakim> I see no one on the speaker queue
16:50:53 <MoeKraft> Jim: Just seems like an old version of quickref
16:50:58 <MoeKraft> Kathy: noted
16:51:18 <MoeKraft> Kathy: Idea was to get something out before CSUN
16:51:34 <MoeKraft> Kathy: For example, aria-describedby does not work on Android.
16:51:46 <MoeKraft> Jim: Don't like to see it go out without ARIA
16:51:54 <Joshue> q+
16:52:04 <MoeKraft> Kathy: Has been approved to publish draft but I will make a note about ARIA techniques
16:52:30 <MoeKraft> Jim: Drafts are fine. Just want to make sure we don't publish without ARIA
16:52:32 <Joshue> ack me
16:53:04 <MoeKraft> Joshue: Worth saying that if James is aware of ARIA for mobile it would be good to get his input on Mobile techniques or identify where there are gaps.
16:53:18 <MoeKraft> James: Problem is that Android ecosystem is diverse
16:53:45 <Joshue> q?
16:54:02 <MoeKraft> s/Jim/James
16:54:17 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
16:54:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/17-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
16:54:36 <MoeKraft> Joshue: Good call today. We got approval to publish techniques, got approval to publish tables tutorial, will receive a draft of the Quickref.
16:54:47 <jamesn> s/Jim/James
16:54:48 <jamesn> s/Jim/James
16:54:48 <jamesn> s/Jim/James
16:54:49 <jamesn> s/Jim/James
16:54:49 <jamesn> s/Jim/James
16:54:53 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
16:54:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/17-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
16:54:54 <MoeKraft> Joshue: Would like to wrap up early.
16:55:03 <Zakim> -Joshue
16:55:05 <Zakim> -Mike_Elledge
16:55:07 <Zakim> -Kathy
16:55:08 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
16:55:09 <Zakim> -Katie_Haritos-Shea
16:55:10 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.aa]
16:55:10 <Zakim> -cstrobbe
16:55:11 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]
16:55:15 <yatil> zakim, please drop me
16:55:15 <Zakim> EricE is being disconnected
16:55:16 <Zakim> -EricE
16:55:19 <Mike_Elledge> bye!
16:55:24 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
16:55:37 <Zakim> -MoeKraft
16:56:02 <MoeKraft> rrsagent, make minutes
16:56:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/17-wai-wcag-minutes.html MoeKraft
16:56:07 <jamesn> s/Jim/James/g
16:56:10 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
16:56:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/17-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
16:56:11 <cstrobbe> 下次再聊
16:56:25 <Zakim> -Marc_Johlic
16:56:30 <MoeKraft> trackbot, end meeting
16:56:30 <trackbot> Zakim, list attendees
16:56:30 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Joshue, +1.978.760.aaaa, Kathy, Katie_Haritos-Shea, MoeKraft, Marc_Johlic, cstrobbe, EricE, +1.313.390.aabb, Mike_Elledge, Mike_Pluke,
16:56:33 <Zakim> ... Cooper, [IPcaller], James_Nurthen
16:56:38 <trackbot> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:56:38 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/17-wai-wcag-minutes.html trackbot
16:56:39 <trackbot> RRSAgent, bye
16:56:39 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
16:56:42 <Mike_Pluke> Mike_Pluke has left #wai-wcag