IRC log of html-media on 2015-02-17

Timestamps are in UTC.

16:08:32 [RRSAgent]
RRSAgent has joined #html-media
16:08:32 [RRSAgent]
logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/02/17-html-media-irc
16:08:51 [joesteele]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:08:51 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/17-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
16:09:20 [joesteele]
Zakim, this will be HTML-WG
16:09:20 [Zakim]
I do not see a conference matching that name scheduled within the next hour, joesteele
16:09:29 [joesteele]
scribe: joesteele
16:09:55 [joesteele]
Meeting: HTML-WG EME
16:10:07 [joesteele]
Topic: Agenda
16:10:16 [ddorwin]
http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-html-media/2015Feb/0030.html
16:10:19 [joesteele]
Zakim, who is here?
16:10:19 [Zakim]
sorry, joesteele, I don't know what conference this is
16:10:21 [Zakim]
On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, joesteele, BobLund, davide, markw, jdsmith, MattWolenetz, ddorwin, adrianba, trackbot
16:11:09 [davide]
HTML_WG?
16:12:04 [joesteele_]
joesteele_ has joined #html-media
16:12:12 [joesteele_]
Zakim, joesteele_ is joesteele
16:12:12 [Zakim]
sorry, joesteele_, I do not recognize a party named 'joesteele_'
16:12:51 [ddorwin]
zakim, this is html-media
16:12:51 [Zakim]
sorry, ddorwin, I do not see a conference named 'html-media' in progress or scheduled at this time
16:13:05 [ddorwin]
zakim, this is media
16:13:05 [Zakim]
ok, ddorwin; that matches HTML_WG()11:00AM
16:14:03 [ddorwin]
zakim, who is here
16:14:03 [Zakim]
ddorwin, you need to end that query with '?'
16:14:10 [ddorwin]
zakim, who is here?
16:14:12 [Zakim]
On the phone I see jdsmith, ddorwin, markw, ??P27, ??P33, joesteele, BobLund
16:14:12 [Zakim]
On IRC I see joesteele_, RRSAgent, Zakim, joesteele, BobLund, davide, markw, jdsmith, MattWolenetz, ddorwin, adrianba, trackbot
16:16:08 [Zakim]
-BobLund
16:16:50 [ddorwin]
scribe: ddorwin
16:17:03 [ddorwin]
scribenick: ddorwin
16:17:08 [Zakim]
+BobLund
16:17:18 [ddorwin]
topic: New Issues
16:17:30 [ddorwin]
topic: Issue #30 – Switch terminology from "asynchronously" to "in parallel"
16:17:39 [ddorwin]
https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/30
16:17:48 [ddorwin]
Just a terminology change
16:18:06 [ddorwin]
topic: Issue #31 - generateRequest() should allow the first message to not be a license request based on initData
16:18:12 [ddorwin]
https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/31
16:19:03 [joesteele]
joesteele has joined #html-media
16:19:20 [ddorwin]
Tracks restoring the intended behavior.
16:19:55 [joesteele]
q+
16:20:03 [ddorwin]
ack joe
16:21:12 [ddorwin]
scribenick:joesteele
16:21:27 [joesteele]
after reviewing this internally -- Adobe has no problem with what is described in ussue #19. Will need to review #31 still
16:21:41 [joesteele]
I will ask Chris Pearce to confirm he is ok with issue #19
16:23:41 [joesteele]
topic: Issue #32 - Consider providing guidance for implementations on platforms that do not expose key IDs
16:23:51 [joesteele]
https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/32
16:24:07 [joesteele]
joesteele: needs to comments on issues #19 directly still -- TBD
16:24:43 [joesteele]
ddorwin: some devices cannot expose key id statuses
16:24:54 [joesteele]
... need to describe how those implementations behave
16:25:10 [joesteele]
... either emtpy map or key id 0 with status for entire session
16:25:17 [joesteele]
s/emtpy/empty/
16:26:03 [joesteele]
ddorwin: Android devices, possibly others
16:26:59 [ddorwin]
topic: https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/29
16:26:59 [joesteele]
topic: Allow applicatiosn to detect media key session type
16:27:17 [ddorwin]
https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/29
16:27:26 [joesteele]
s/Allow applications/Issue 29 - Allow applications/
16:27:51 [joesteele]
ddorwin: we have two persistent session types now, but now way to tell between them
16:28:04 [joesteele]
... might be important for some use cases, e.g. pinning content offline
16:28:24 [joesteele]
... this is proposal to add new sequence of strings that describe this
16:28:36 [joesteele]
... could use to repevent primpting for things you can't do
16:28:38 [joesteele]
q+
16:28:47 [joesteele]
s/primpting/prompting/
16:28:53 [ddorwin]
ack joe
16:29:22 [joesteele]
joesteele: won't the app know the type of session?
16:29:35 [joesteele]
ddorwin: this is before the session --
16:29:47 [joesteele]
... you will know but not early enough
16:30:02 [joesteele]
... this would let the app make better decisions
16:30:11 [joesteele]
joesteele: I will have to review I think
16:30:27 [joesteele]
s/repevent/prevent/
16:30:45 [joesteele]
topic: Bug 26776 - Diagnosing and resolving CDM errors needs a numeric systemCode (deleted with MediaKeyError)
16:30:53 [joesteele]
https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=26776
16:31:10 [joesteele]
jdsmith: added a comment about retreviging an event -- a DOMString
16:31:29 [joesteele]
... thought Dominics comments about subclassing ECMAScript Errors there, but not sure how to handle
16:31:40 [joesteele]
... event is a more normal feature for us to implement in our spec
16:31:55 [joesteele]
... but David expressed a concern about this approach
16:32:01 [joesteele]
ddorwin: reading now
16:32:33 [joesteele]
... this provides human-readable events for things outside the specification
16:32:45 [joesteele]
... goes back to earlier discussion -- what events are we targeting?
16:32:57 [joesteele]
... promises failing, decode errors, key status changes
16:33:01 [joesteele]
q+
16:33:22 [joesteele]
jdsmith: I think this would be more asynchronous in the algorithms we are providing
16:33:33 [joesteele]
... this could provide more diagnostic information
16:33:44 [joesteele]
ddorwin: what object is this fired at?
16:33:50 [joesteele]
jdsmith: MediaKeySession
16:34:13 [joesteele]
ddorwin: I was thinking this would be disconnected, or is that just a side effect
16:34:25 [joesteele]
... so you would fire this and the key statuses at the same time
16:34:35 [joesteele]
... should this be more closely attached to that?
16:34:57 [joesteele]
jdsmith: all the normal key status responses are directly related to keys
16:35:06 [joesteele]
... are you thinking something more generic could be attached?
16:35:23 [joesteele]
ddorwin: you are talking about "something else" can you give an example?
16:35:41 [joesteele]
ddorwin: can you give an example?
16:35:46 [joesteele]
jdsmith: yes
16:36:23 [joesteele]
... should we treat the option of subclassing Errors as viable? Dominic indicated this
16:37:11 [joesteele]
ddorwin: don't think we want to get into our own ECMAScript bindings .. don't know if this would solve Marks original issue
16:37:22 [markw]
I think this would work for me
16:38:30 [joesteele]
joesteele: the example I can give is when the DRM sub-system actually fails, at the communication level.
16:38:34 [joesteele]
... this would be async
16:38:45 [joesteele]
jdsmith: would prefer a numeric value here, but a string can work
16:38:52 [joesteele]
ack joe
16:38:57 [ddorwin]
Related bug to Joe's comments: https://www.w3.org/Bugs/Public/show_bug.cgi?id=27067
16:39:18 [markw]
\me back in 2 mins
16:39:48 [joesteele]
ddorwin: this also proposes an event -- might be moving towards a solution
16:40:08 [joesteele]
... app might not record this behavior and you are doing something wrong anyway
16:40:14 [joesteele]
... a system code might be OK there
16:40:28 [joesteele]
joesteele: what are the next steps?
16:40:41 [joesteele]
ddorwin: Jerry will add comments and examples
16:40:57 [joesteele]
jdsmith: and discuss whether should be fired against MediaKeySession
16:41:58 [markw_]
markw_ has joined #html-media
16:42:06 [ddorwin]
topic: Problem about MediaKeySession.keyStatuses get/has methods
16:42:18 [ddorwin]
AKA, keyStatuses cannot be maplike
16:42:21 [ddorwin]
https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/25
16:42:32 [joesteele]
s/Problem about/Issue 25 - Problem about/
16:42:56 [joesteele]
ddorwin: jwwang reported a problem with comparing the reference and not the values for the map-like object here
16:43:07 [joesteele]
... this means apps could not actually get the real data for a key id
16:43:21 [joesteele]
... could just check the value instead, but that is not how ECMAScript works
16:43:34 [joesteele]
... last comment was to check with public-scriptcoord
16:43:42 [joesteele]
... few options:
16:43:51 [joesteele]
... define our own map interface
16:43:58 [joesteele]
... use a primitve type for the string
16:44:04 [joesteele]
... use a sequence instead
16:44:20 [joesteele]
... probably have to take one of these options
16:44:25 [joesteele]
... prefer the first two
16:44:48 [joesteele]
... think this is easier for developers, annoying to iterate over the sequence
16:44:53 [markw_]
q+
16:45:01 [ddorwin]
Options: https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/25#issuecomment-73821831
16:45:09 [ddorwin]
ack mark
16:45:43 [joesteele]
markw: from the script authors point of view the ability to look up using the key id is the most obvious thing
16:46:13 [joesteele]
...this is not uncommon with Web IDL but if we have to define our own map interface might be worth it
16:46:30 [joesteele]
ddorwin: I will double-check with public-scriptcoord
16:46:49 [joesteele]
markw: maybe we can give the WebIDL team this feedback, seems like obvious things are hard to do
16:47:09 [joesteele]
ddorwin: I will reply and CC the editors, others can follow along
16:47:26 [joesteele]
jdsmith: the WebMIDI examples is this the input/output interfaces?
16:47:31 [joesteele]
ddorwin: yes
16:47:40 [joesteele]
... editors said they would move to this when available
16:48:13 [joesteele]
topic: Issue #22- Provide more guidance on the behavior of the keyStatuses attribute
16:48:21 [joesteele]
https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/22
16:49:03 [joesteele]
joesteele: I will reply to this -- and double-check the last minutes
16:49:43 [joesteele]
topic: Issue #16 - Review close() and remove() logic and behavior for persistent-* sessions
16:49:50 [joesteele]
https://github.com/w3c/encrypted-media/issues/16
16:50:19 [joesteele]
ddorwin: close and remove logic, another bug (issue 18) as well, we agreed to review
16:50:28 [joesteele]
... assuming we will have to sit down and think this through
16:50:33 [joesteele]
... some description in the wiki
16:50:42 [markw_]
q+
16:50:43 [joesteele]
... probably also needs review
16:50:55 [ddorwin]
ack mark
16:51:00 [joesteele]
... would like the two perisistent session work similarly and be well-defined
16:51:36 [joesteele]
markw: agree with those goals, would like to say that in some places for the persistent key release case it mentions that it will send messages and in other cases it does not.
16:51:45 [joesteele]
... would like to at least try in all cases.
16:51:52 [joesteele]
... might not work in all implementations
16:52:11 [joesteele]
ddorwin: probably just need to think through all the use cases and put those in the algorithms
16:52:18 [joesteele]
... take a fresh look
16:52:28 [joesteele]
markw: make sense
16:52:51 [joesteele]
topic: EME/MSE heartbeat publication
16:53:00 [joesteele]
ddorwin: need to follow up on this thread
16:53:15 [joesteele]
... I think the main spec will be a working draft and the others into a non-working draft
16:53:27 [joesteele]
... publish in the same place for now, but need to figire out where to put them
16:53:30 [joesteele]
... I will followup
16:53:45 [joesteele]
joesteele: any help needed?
16:53:54 [joesteele]
ddorwin: no unless folks disagree
16:54:12 [joesteele]
... just replacing the existing working files
16:54:21 [joesteele]
topic: Next meeting
16:54:40 [joesteele]
ddorwin: do we want to meet next week?
16:54:48 [joesteele]
joesteele: I will not be available next week
16:54:54 [joesteele]
markw: not me either
16:55:08 [joesteele]
ddorwin: Ok we will meet March 3rd unless something comes up with MSE
16:55:16 [joesteele]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:55:16 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/17-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
16:55:19 [ddorwin]
Next meeting: March 3rd - EME (unless we have anything for MSE)
16:55:20 [joesteele]
Zakim, who is here?
16:55:20 [Zakim]
On the phone I see jdsmith, ddorwin, markw, ??P27, ??P33, joesteele, BobLund
16:55:23 [Zakim]
On IRC I see markw_, joesteele, RRSAgent, Zakim, BobLund, davide, jdsmith, MattWolenetz, ddorwin, adrianba, trackbot
16:55:28 [Zakim]
-markw
16:55:29 [Zakim]
-joesteele
16:55:31 [Zakim]
-??P27
16:55:33 [Zakim]
-??P33
16:55:34 [Zakim]
-jdsmith
16:55:37 [Zakim]
-BobLund
16:55:49 [joesteele]
Zakim, make logs public
16:55:49 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'make logs public', joesteele
16:55:58 [joesteele]
Zakim, make log public
16:55:58 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'make log public', joesteele
16:56:37 [joesteele]
chair: ddorwin
16:56:40 [joesteele]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:56:40 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/17-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
16:57:46 [joesteele]
rrsagent, make log public
16:58:46 [Zakim]
-ddorwin
16:58:47 [Zakim]
HTML_WG()11:00AM has ended
16:58:47 [Zakim]
Attendees were jdsmith, ddorwin, markw, joesteele, BobLund
16:59:53 [joesteele]
s/Allow applicatiosn/Issue 29 - Allow applications/
16:59:58 [joesteele]
rrsagent, generate minutes
16:59:58 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/17-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
17:00:29 [joesteele]
s/retreviging/retrieving/
17:00:31 [joesteele]
rrsagent, generate minutes
17:00:31 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/17-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
17:01:10 [joesteele]
s/primitve/primitive/
17:01:17 [joesteele]
s/prefer first two/prefer one of first two/
17:01:19 [joesteele]
rrsagent, generate minutes
17:01:19 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/17-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
17:01:44 [joesteele]
s/prefer the first two/prefer one of the first two/
17:01:46 [joesteele]
rrsagent, generate minutes
17:01:46 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/17-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
17:02:16 [joesteele]
s/make sense/makes sense/
17:02:18 [joesteele]
rrsagent, generate minutes
17:02:18 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/17-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
17:02:21 [davide]
davide has left #html-media
17:02:33 [joesteele]
s/figire/figure/
17:02:34 [joesteele]
rrsagent, generate minutes
17:02:34 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/17-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
17:02:54 [joesteele]
s/not me either/I am not either/
17:02:55 [joesteele]
rrsagent, generate minutes
17:02:55 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/17-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
17:03:46 [joesteele]
zakim, bye
17:03:46 [Zakim]
Zakim has left #html-media
17:03:49 [joesteele]
rrsagent, generate minutes
17:03:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/17-html-media-minutes.html joesteele
17:04:04 [joesteele]
rrsagent, bye
17:04:04 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items