19:58:02 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aapi
19:58:02 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/02/17-aapi-irc
19:58:04 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
19:58:04 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aapi
19:58:06 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
19:58:06 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM scheduled to start in 2 minutes
19:58:07 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
19:58:07 <trackbot> Date: 17 February 2015
19:58:27 <clown> agenda: this
19:58:32 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-980: (David) Define mappings for managed aria related states.
19:58:36 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1104: (Cynthia) Define UIA mapping in section 5.5.1 when element does not exist in accessibility tree.
19:58:41 <clown> agenda+ ISSUE-700/ACTION-1544/ACTION-1546: (Rich, Cynthia, David) Mapping of role rowgroup.
19:58:45 <clown> agenda+ ISSUE-692/ACTION-1554: (Cynthia) Provide UIA mapping for role="searchbox".
19:58:50 <clown> agenda+ ISSUE-692/ACTION-1556: (David) Provide MSAA/IA2 mapping for role="searchbox".
19:58:54 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1564: (David) MSAA/IA2 mapping for role="switch".
19:58:59 <clown> agenda+ ACTION-1569/ISSUE-540: (Jason) Section of Core-AAM for AAPI differences.
19:59:04 <clown> agenda+ Continue with ACTIONs/ISSUEs for core-aam 1.1: https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/products/23
19:59:09 <clown> agenda+ be done.
20:00:25 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG(AAPI)3:00PM has now started
20:00:32 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
20:00:41 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
20:00:41 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
20:00:48 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
20:00:48 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
20:01:03 <clown> chair: Joseph_Scheuhammer
20:01:07 <clown> agenda?
20:02:26 <Zakim> +Bryan_Garaventa
20:02:27 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
20:02:59 <joanie> ugh
20:03:00 <joanie> timie
20:03:02 <joanie> time yes
20:03:40 <bgaraventa1979> bgaraventa1979 has joined #aapi
20:03:49 <Zakim> +Joanmarie_Diggs
20:04:06 <bgaraventa1979> zakim, I am Bryan_Garaventa
20:04:06 <Zakim> ok, bgaraventa1979, I now associate you with Bryan_Garaventa
20:06:04 <joanie> scribe: joanie
20:06:18 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:06:18 <Zakim> agendum 1. "ACTION-980: (David) Define mappings for managed aria related states." taken up [from clown]
20:07:29 <joanie> JS: David was going to work on this. I heard from him, he cannot come to the meeting.
20:07:32 <clown> action-980?
20:07:32 <trackbot> action-980 -- David Bolter to Describe/define managed aria related states: aria-setsize, aria-posinset, aria-level, focused, focusable with reference to section 5.5 bullet 1 of the UAIG. -- due 2015-01-27 -- OPEN
20:07:32 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/980
20:07:37 <joanie> regrets+ David_Bolter
20:07:54 <joanie> JS: Anyone else want to discuss this?
20:08:23 <joanie> RS: I don't quite understand.
20:08:55 <joanie> RS: Ok, it basically wants to say how the browser manages these states if they are missing.
20:09:22 <joanie> JS: The current text in the mapping guide is vague with respect to what happens if the states are absent.
20:09:28 <joanie> JS: David volunteered to take this up.
20:09:49 <joanie> JS: I periodically ping him; he's still working on it.
20:09:56 <joanie> s/ping him/ping David/
20:10:12 <joanie> JS: It was raised, I believe, at a face-to-face meeting.
20:11:15 <joanie> JS: David indicated he wants to come up with a list of managed states.
20:11:21 <joanie> JS: I'll ping him again.
20:11:45 <joanie> JS: We might still be able to get it in for 1.1.
20:11:56 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:11:56 <Zakim> agendum 2. "ACTION-1104: (Cynthia) Define UIA mapping in section 5.5.1 when element does not exist in accessibility tree." taken up [from clown]
20:12:08 <joanie> JS: Cynthia is not here (yet).
20:12:08 <clown> action-1104?
20:12:09 <trackbot> action-1104 -- Cynthia Shelly to Define what the accessibility API mapping is for UIA on aria-describedby in section 5.5.1 table when the element does not exist in the accessibility tree such as when css: display:none applies -- due 2015-02-10 -- OPEN
20:12:09 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1104
20:12:25 <joanie> JS: You can have an aria-describedby that has display:none on it.
20:12:42 <joanie> JS: As far as UIA is concerned, this means the description doesn't exist.
20:13:01 <joanie> JS: Other APIs allow you to expose the description text.
20:13:11 <joanie> JS: I did see a number of emails about this about a month ago.
20:13:39 <joanie> JS: I think Steve and Marco were encouraging them to use accdescription(?sp).
20:13:54 <joanie> JS: But I believe Cynthia said they had some problems with that.
20:14:18 <joanie> RS: In the past, perhaps due to poor documentation, people were misusing this property.
20:15:06 <joanie> JS: Maybe what we need to do is fix the Microsoft documentation.
20:16:10 <joanie> s/accdescription(?sp)/MSAA accDescription/
20:16:16 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:16:16 <Zakim> agendum 3. "ISSUE-700/ACTION-1544/ACTION-1546: (Rich, Cynthia, David) Mapping of role rowgroup." taken up [from clown]
20:16:24 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/accname-aam/accname-aam.html#accessible-name-and-description-mapping
20:17:10 <clown> issue-700?
20:17:10 <trackbot> issue-700 -- Discuss rowgroup, tbody, and thead in aapis -- open
20:17:10 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/700
20:17:20 <clown> action-1544?
20:17:20 <trackbot> action-1544 -- Cynthia Shelly to Document rowgroup mappings for ie 11 for both uia express and uia -- due 2015-02-03 -- OPEN
20:17:20 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1544
20:17:32 <clown> action-1546?
20:17:32 <trackbot> action-1546 -- David Bolter to Make sure the rowgroup mapping for msaa/ia2 is accurate -- due 2014-12-23 -- OPEN
20:17:32 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1546
20:17:41 <joanie> JS: This issue relates to action-1544 and action-1546.
20:18:04 <joanie> RS: Let me see if I can get Alex to join us.
20:18:48 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-rowgroup
20:23:12 <clown> action-1546?
20:23:12 <trackbot> action-1546 -- David Bolter to Make sure the rowgroup mapping for msaa/ia2 is accurate -- due 2014-12-23 -- OPEN
20:23:12 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1546
20:23:25 <joanie> JS: David said last week that he wanted to talk to Alex about it.
20:23:32 <joanie> RS: I'm going to email Alex about it.
20:23:47 <clown> http://www.w3.org/2015/02/10-aapi-minutes.html#item07
20:25:13 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-rowgroup
20:25:23 <joanie> JS: (Reads from the above)
20:26:09 <joanie> JS: MSAA and UIA Express expose the role as a property, which means there is an accessible there.
20:26:25 <joanie> JS: IA2 exposes it as ROLE_SYSTEM_GROUP.
20:26:32 <joanie> RS: Actually, that's probably ok, right?
20:26:43 <joanie> JS: UIA exposes it as 'group'
20:26:48 <joanie> RS: Which also means nothing.
20:27:03 <joanie> JS: ATK and AXAPI do not map it. There is no accessible.
20:27:26 <joanie> JS: I think the interoperability issue there is if an accessible should be there at all.
20:29:09 <joanie> RS: (Finishes email to Alex and CCs David)
20:29:20 <clown> s/I think the interoperability issue there is if an accessible should be there at all./I think the interoperability issue is if an accessible should be there at all./
20:30:16 <clown> action-980
20:30:16 <trackbot> action-980 -- David Bolter to Describe/define managed aria related states: aria-setsize, aria-posinset, aria-level, focused, focusable with reference to section 5.5 bullet 1 of the UAIG. -- due 2015-01-27 -- OPEN
20:30:16 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/980
20:31:34 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#statePropertyMappingGeneralRules
20:31:45 <clown> item 1 at that URL
20:31:57 <joanie> (The above are related to the email being written)
20:35:38 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Feb/0054.html
20:35:46 <joanie> RS: The above is the message I sent.
20:35:49 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:35:49 <Zakim> agendum 4. "ISSUE-692/ACTION-1554: (Cynthia) Provide UIA mapping for role="searchbox"." taken up [from clown]
20:35:54 <joanie> action-1554
20:35:54 <trackbot> action-1554 -- Cynthia Shelly to Provide UIA mapping for role="searchbox" -- due 2015-02-10 -- OPEN
20:35:54 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1554
20:36:09 <joanie> JS: I was asking for mappings for the new searchbox role.
20:36:17 <joanie> JS: Cynthia has not yet been able to join us.
20:36:29 <joanie> JS: We've got a mapping for ATK/AT-SPI2.
20:36:30 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-searchbox
20:36:35 <joanie> JS: That's the only one so far.
20:37:12 <cyns> cyns has joined #aapi
20:37:38 <Zakim> +Cynthia_Shelly
20:38:51 <joanie> JS: Cynthia, we're working on the mapping for role="searchbox"
20:38:51 <clown> action-1554
20:38:51 <trackbot> action-1554 -- Cynthia Shelly to Provide UIA mapping for role="searchbox" -- due 2015-02-10 -- OPEN
20:38:51 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1554
20:39:10 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-searchbox
20:41:44 <joanie> CS: We would use the editabletext pattern and a localizable role type. So just like an input, but the string would say "search box".
20:42:31 <joanie> s/localizable role/localizable control/
20:42:46 <joanie> RS: So I guess for CR, we're only going to test for English mappings.
20:43:25 <joanie> CS: I'm updating the action now.
20:43:38 <joanie> JS: When you're done, assign it to me and I'll put in the mapping spec.
20:46:24 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:46:24 <Zakim> agendum 5. "ISSUE-692/ACTION-1556: (David) Provide MSAA/IA2 mapping for role="searchbox"." taken up [from clown]
20:46:59 <joanie> JD: Was this added to the email Rich sent?
20:47:41 <joanie> JS: Nothing about searchbox or switch.
20:48:25 <joanie> JS: The same thing (mapping for searchbox) is needed for MSAA/IA2.
20:48:31 <joanie> JS: This is David's action.
20:48:44 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:48:44 <Zakim> agendum 6. "ACTION-1564: (David) MSAA/IA2 mapping for role="switch"." taken up [from clown]
20:49:11 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#role-map-switch
20:49:52 <joanie> JS: We have mappings for UIA and ATK/AT-SPI2. Not IA2 or AX API.
20:50:09 <joanie> JD: I need to do a patch for the ATK mappings in WebKit.
20:50:36 <joanie> JD: When I do so, I'll have to deal with the mapping for AX API, so I may be able to get us mappings for that platform as well.
20:50:45 <joanie> JD: In which case I'll update James' actions.
20:50:49 <joanie> Zakim, take up item 2
20:50:49 <Zakim> agendum 2. "ACTION-1104: (Cynthia) Define UIA mapping in section 5.5.1 when element does not exist in accessibility tree." taken up [from clown]
20:50:59 <clown> action-1104?
20:50:59 <trackbot> action-1104 -- Cynthia Shelly to Define what the accessibility API mapping is for UIA on aria-describedby in section 5.5.1 table when the element does not exist in the accessibility tree such as when css: display:none applies -- due 2015-02-10 -- OPEN
20:51:00 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1104
20:51:14 <joanie> JS: This is aria-describedby pointing to something with display:none.
20:51:18 <joanie> CS: We're still working on it.
20:51:42 <joanie> JS: I mentioned earlier that Steve Faulkner and Marco Zehe suggested accDescription.
20:51:51 <joanie> CS: That's gone now.
20:51:58 <joanie> CS: We're talking about adding something like it.
20:52:12 <joanie> JS: So what do we want to do? Set the date further out?
20:52:21 <joanie> CS: March 15th.
20:53:24 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:53:24 <Zakim> agendum 6. "ACTION-1564: (David) MSAA/IA2 mapping for role="switch"." taken up [from clown]
20:53:33 <joanie> Zakim, close item 6
20:53:33 <Zakim> agendum 6, ACTION-1564: (David) MSAA/IA2 mapping for role="switch"., closed
20:53:36 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
20:53:36 <Zakim> 7. ACTION-1569/ISSUE-540: (Jason) Section of Core-AAM for AAPI differences. [from clown]
20:53:36 <joanie> Zakim, next item
20:53:37 <Zakim> agendum 7. "ACTION-1569/ISSUE-540: (Jason) Section of Core-AAM for AAPI differences." taken up [from clown]
20:53:43 <clown> action-1569?
20:53:43 <trackbot> action-1569 -- Jason Kiss to Create a section that describes AAPI differences -- due 2015-03-03 -- OPEN
20:53:43 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1569
20:53:51 <joanie> JS: This is something Jason Kiss wanted to do.
20:54:09 <joanie> JS: He did do it, but it's on a special branch.
20:54:24 <joanie> JS: The email was sent here:
20:54:44 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/issue-540/core-aam/core-aam.html#comparing-accessibility-apis
20:55:27 <joanie> JS: He's basically copied a note I'd written about ATK versus AT-SPI. Then added content about names and descriptions.
20:57:09 <joanie> (Group reads)
20:58:05 <joanie> CS: With respect to 1.3.1 there's a lot of differences between how UIA and the other Accessibility APIs work.
20:58:13 <joanie> CS: For example, patterns.
20:58:26 <joanie> CS: You can give me an action to provide some of this information.
20:58:51 <clown> action:  Cynthia to add to the section on differences among AAPIs highlighting the features of UIA.
20:58:52 <trackbot> Created ACTION-1585 - Add to the section on differences among aapis highlighting the features of uia. [on Cynthia Shelly - due 2015-02-24].
20:59:04 <clown> action-1585?
20:59:04 <trackbot> action-1585 -- Cynthia Shelly to Add to the section on differences among aapis highlighting the features of uia. -- due 2015-02-24 -- OPEN
20:59:04 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1585
21:03:02 <joanie> Zakim, part
21:03:02 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Joseph_Scheuhammer, Bryan_Garaventa, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Joanmarie_Diggs, Cynthia_Shelly
21:03:02 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aapi
21:03:14 <joanie> RRSAgent, stop
21:33:15 <joanie> s/ugh//
21:33:21 <joanie> s/timie//
21:33:27 <joanie> s/time yes//
21:33:31 <joanie> RRSAgent, make minutes
21:33:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/17-aapi-minutes.html joanie
21:33:50 <joanie> RRSAgent, stop