IRC log of tt on 2015-02-12

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:57:47 [RRSAgent]
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logging to
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RRSAgent, make logs public
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Zakim, this will be TTML
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ok, trackbot; I see SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM scheduled to start in 3 minutes
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Meeting: Timed Text Working Group Teleconference
14:57:52 [trackbot]
Date: 12 February 2015
14:58:10 [nigel]
nigel has changed the topic to: Timed Text Working Group: Meeting today 1500 UTC
15:02:35 [Zakim]
SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has now started
15:02:43 [Zakim]
15:03:13 [glenn]
having an audio problem, one moment please
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15:03:37 [jdsmith]
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Present: nigel, jdsmith
15:04:34 [nigel]
Regrets: frans, pal
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glenn has joined #tt
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15:06:02 [nigel]
Present+ glenn
15:06:04 [nigel]
chair: nigel
15:06:09 [nigel]
scribeNick: nigel
15:08:38 [nigel]
Topic: This meeting
15:08:44 [nigel]
nigel: summarises agenda. AOB?
15:08:44 [Zakim]
15:08:46 [Zakim]
15:08:55 [nigel]
group: no AOB
15:08:57 [tmichel]
zakim, ??P3 is me
15:08:57 [Zakim]
I already had ??P3 as ??P3, tmichel
15:09:54 [nigel]
nigel: Since we're around a week later than previously expected in publishing the TTML2 FPWD
15:10:02 [tmichel]
zakim, who is here ?
15:10:02 [Zakim]
On the phone I see nigel, jdsmith, glenn
15:10:04 [Zakim]
On IRC I see glenn, jdsmith, Zakim, RRSAgent, nigel, tmichel, trackbot
15:10:14 [nigel]
nigel: I've dropped the dates back by a week on the publication timeline.
15:10:44 [nigel]
glenn: Realistically I don't think we'll hit the 5th March date for any additional edits deferred from
15:11:06 [Zakim]
15:11:20 [tmichel]
zakim, ??P5 is me
15:11:20 [Zakim]
+tmichel; got it
15:11:25 [nigel]
... the FPWD.
15:11:38 [nigel]
15:16:33 [nigel]
nigel: Okay, the current timeline is "at risk" right now for resourcing reasons.
15:17:13 [nigel]
tmichel: The FPWD should be published later today. The document has been redated to Feb 12.
15:17:30 [nigel]
... Other than that it's the same. Unfortunately, next time we have to send to the webmaster we
15:17:40 [nigel]
... have to send it 3 days in advance. On the day is too late.
15:18:50 [nigel]
Topic: Action Items
15:19:08 [nigel]
nigel: I'll come back to Action-369 later because it's really about issues.
15:19:13 [nigel]
15:19:13 [trackbot]
action-370 -- Nigel Megitt to Send dece liaison asking for imsc 1 test criteria -- due 2015-02-12 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:19:13 [trackbot]
15:20:03 [nigel]
action-370: Mike has responded and included the requested material.
15:20:03 [trackbot]
Notes added to action-370 Send dece liaison asking for imsc 1 test criteria.
15:20:11 [nigel]
close action-370
15:20:11 [trackbot]
Closed action-370.
15:20:32 [nigel]
Action: pal Consider how to process and make available the DECE test criteria provided
15:20:32 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-373 - Consider how to process and make available the dece test criteria provided [on Pierre-Anthony Lemieux - due 2015-02-19].
15:20:42 [nigel]
15:20:42 [trackbot]
action-371 -- Nigel Megitt to Create a meeting page on the wiki for the f2f -- due 2015-02-12 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:20:42 [trackbot]
15:21:21 [nigel]
nigel: Thierry kindly did this. The page is at
15:21:26 [nigel]
close action-371
15:21:26 [trackbot]
Closed action-371.
15:21:59 [nigel]
15:21:59 [trackbot]
action-372 -- Nigel Megitt to Review requirements conformance in Annex L of TTML2 -- due 2015-02-17 -- OPEN
15:21:59 [trackbot]
15:23:06 [nigel]
nigel: I raised this in the week because I noticed that Annex L needs to be updated. I've done
15:23:47 [nigel]
... a first pass analysis but not sure where to take it from there - anyone else want to take it on?
15:23:59 [nigel]
glenn: Thanks for doing that - it looks good at a high level. When I get to the point of doing the
15:24:11 [nigel]
... update I'll focus on the current analysis and comment at that time if there's any difference of
15:24:13 [nigel]
... opinion.
15:25:49 [nigel]
close action-372
15:25:49 [trackbot]
Closed action-372.
15:27:29 [nigel]
nigel: I've just raised issue-370 to implement the changes indicated by the analysis in Action-372.
15:27:34 [nigel]
reopen issue-370
15:27:34 [trackbot]
Re-opened issue-370.
15:27:49 [nigel]
nigel: Related to this is Issue-369 which also includes an edit to that section
15:27:52 [nigel]
15:27:52 [trackbot]
issue-369 -- The R### numbers in Annex L are not all correct -- raised
15:27:52 [trackbot]
15:27:56 [nigel]
reopen issue-369
15:27:56 [trackbot]
Re-opened issue-369.
15:28:34 [nigel]
Topic: F2F
15:30:06 [nigel]
glenn: I've got a proposal for Harrah's on the 9th and 10th which I think will be okay, and am
15:30:52 [nigel]
... getting an alternate quote. I think we'll succeed in this.
15:31:29 [nigel]
glenn: I'll look to wrap this up by the end of today so we can confirm.
15:32:13 [nigel]
tmichel: Usually the F2F meeting dates and locations should be defined 8 weeks in advance.
15:32:22 [nigel]
jdsmith. We're 8 weeks exactly from 9th April today.
15:32:41 [nigel]
tmichel: If someone is unhappy with the schedule they could veto if there's less than 8 weeks notice.
15:34:19 [nigel]
Action: glenn confirm F2F location and update wiki and send details to the reflector.
15:34:20 [trackbot]
Created ACTION-374 - Confirm f2f location and update wiki and send details to the reflector. [on Glenn Adams - due 2015-02-19].
15:38:03 [nigel]
Topic: Change Proposals
15:38:16 [nigel]
nigel: I just want to note that we had some CPs that were marked as needing to be done before
15:38:40 [nigel]
... FPWD but they weren't fully completed - however we did discuss them and considered that
15:38:51 [nigel]
... they were complete enough to proceed with FPWD albeit requiring further work.
15:39:01 [nigel]
... So I reassigned all of them to Priority 2 instead.
15:39:20 [nigel]
glenn: Fine with me - I was going to suggest the same.
15:39:41 [nigel]
Topic: Issues
15:39:46 [nigel]
15:39:46 [trackbot]
action-369 -- Nigel Megitt to Collate smpte issues and draft dispositions and circulate on reflector as a precursor to a liaison -- due 2015-02-05 -- PENDINGREVIEW
15:39:46 [trackbot]
15:40:59 [nigel]
nigel: Pierre suggested this action. In doing it I had some queries and also noted that we have
15:41:16 [nigel]
... a clear disposition and completion on the issues for most of the requests from SMPTE.
15:41:57 [nigel]
nigel: The first query is on Ruby annotations. I'm not clear if we've fully or only partially met the request.
15:43:24 [nigel]
glenn: I can only assert that I think I've met the requirements. It's up to the requestor to identify
15:43:27 [nigel]
... if that's not the case.
15:43:47 [nigel]
15:44:41 [nigel]
glenn: On the Ruby, we do have position before and after, and also a third option "around", which
15:44:58 [nigel]
... came up when analysing Japanese usage for 2-line captions - Ruby on 1st line is "before" and
15:45:22 [nigel]
... on 2nd line is "after". I don't know about >2 lines so I adopted all-but-last line: "before".
15:45:45 [nigel]
... The offset is not constrained to -1em. It could go to -infinity. So both of those points are met.
15:45:57 [nigel]
nigel: The second query is whether or not mixed vertical-horizontal progression direction
15:46:03 [nigel]
... requires the use of tts:textOrientation?
15:46:36 [nigel]
glenn: It does not requires the use of tts:textOrientation, but it may take it into account in
15:46:40 [nigel]
... producing the result.
15:47:17 [nigel]
nigel: So with horizontal in vertical you don't have to fix up the orientation of the horizontal,
15:47:21 [nigel]
... it happens automatically?
15:47:36 [nigel]
glenn: That's correct.
15:47:49 [nigel]
... There was some discussion about the em square, because the examples from SMPTE show
15:48:30 [nigel]
... a horizontal segment that extends outside of the bounds of the line area. I pointed out to Pierre
15:48:48 [nigel]
... that the language re formatting is rather vague and its implementation dependent how it
15:49:01 [nigel]
... reduces the font size or changes the line height to make it fit. I'm sure Pierre will want to
15:49:07 [nigel]
... express a view on this at some point.
15:49:40 [nigel]
nigel: Thanks, I think I'm clear on the disposition now.
15:50:01 [nigel]
glenn: Your question is interesting though - let's say that there's a span with tts:textOrientation of
15:50:20 [nigel]
... sideways and a tts:textCombine, would that say to the client, "don't attempt to lay it out horizontally"?
15:50:40 [nigel]
... That would sort of counter-act the request for the textCombine. That's an interesting open
15:51:01 [nigel]
... question - I don't even know if the CSS folks have thought of that point.
15:51:27 [nigel]
glenn: It wouldn't hurt for us to liaise with them at the right point, after we've worked out what
15:51:41 [nigel]
... we think it should do on this point. For example, I raised the Ruby offset property with them
15:51:53 [nigel]
... and they're starting to address that point but they're doing it in a different way than I would
15:52:09 [nigel]
... have expected. They want to use the relative positioning mechanism that's already in CSS to
15:52:24 [nigel]
... handle that. I'm leaving ruby offset in as we've specced it.
15:54:00 [nigel]
nigel: Thanks for that! I don't think we're quorate to close Pending Review issues now. Anything
15:54:04 [nigel]
... else on the above before I adjourn?
15:54:30 [nigel]
glenn: I think the draft dispositions is good as it will help us respond.
15:54:42 [nigel]
nigel: Team effort - Pierre suggested it, I did it, you clarified the answers!
15:54:59 [tmichel]
15:55:04 [Zakim]
15:55:05 [Zakim]
15:55:06 [Zakim]
15:55:13 [nigel]
nigel: Thanks everyone - meet again same time next week. [adjourns meeting]
15:55:20 [nigel]
rrsagent, make logs public
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rrsagent, generate minutes
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I have made the request to generate nigel
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SYMM_TTWG()10:00AM has ended
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Attendees were nigel, jdsmith, glenn, tmichel
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rrsagent, generate minutes
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I have made the request to generate nigel_
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Present+ tmichel
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s/having an audio problem, one moment please/
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i/Topic: Change Proposals/nigel: To meet the 8 week notice period Action-374 needs to be completed today.
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rrsagent, generate minutes
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I have made the request to generate nigel
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rrsagent, generate minutes
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I have made the request to generate nigel
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ScribeOptions: -final -noEmbedDiagnostics
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rrsagent, generate minutes
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I have made the request to generate nigel
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