15:56:24 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #hcls
15:56:24 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/02/10-hcls-irc
15:56:26 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs world
15:56:26 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #hcls
15:56:28 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be HCLS
15:56:28 <Zakim> ok, trackbot, I see SW_HCLS()11:00AM already started
15:56:29 <trackbot> Meeting: Semantic Web Health Care and Life Sciences Interest Group Teleconference
15:56:29 <trackbot> Date: 10 February 2015
15:57:26 <Zakim> +DBooth
15:57:34 <dbooth> zakim, who is here?
15:57:34 <Zakim> On the phone I see +1.512.680.aaaa, DBooth
15:57:36 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, dbooth, cloudcell_, trackbot, ericP
15:57:54 <dbooth> zakim, aaaa is Darrell
15:57:54 <Zakim> +Darrell; got it
15:58:17 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> Marc_Twagirumukiza has joined #HCLS
15:59:27 <Zakim> +??P6
15:59:47 <Sajjad_Hussain> Sajjad_Hussain has joined #HCLS
16:00:03 <Tony> Tony has joined #HCLS
16:00:11 <dbooth> zakim, ??P6 is Marc_Twagirumukiza
16:00:11 <Zakim> +Marc_Twagirumukiza; got it
16:00:24 <dbooth> zakim, who is here?
16:00:24 <Zakim> On the phone I see Darrell, DBooth, Marc_Twagirumukiza
16:00:26 <Zakim> On IRC I see Tony, Sajjad_Hussain, Marc_Twagirumukiza, Zakim, RRSAgent, dbooth, cloudcell_, trackbot, ericP
16:00:37 <Zakim> +??P7
16:00:44 <Zakim> +Tony
16:00:59 <ericP> Zakim, ??P7 is me
16:00:59 <Zakim> +ericP; got it
16:01:07 <Zakim> +Kerstin_Forsberg
16:01:28 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
16:01:44 <ericP> Zakim, [GVoice] is Sajjad_Hussain
16:01:44 <Zakim> +Sajjad_Hussain; got it
16:01:46 <dbooth> zakim, GVoice is Sajjad_Hussain
16:01:46 <Zakim> sorry, dbooth, I do not recognize a party named 'GVoice'
16:01:48 <rhausam> rhausam has joined #HCLS
16:01:52 <Zakim> +peterhendler
16:02:05 <dbooth> zakim, who is here?
16:02:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see Darrell, DBooth, Marc_Twagirumukiza, ericP, Tony, Kerstin_Forsberg, Sajjad_Hussain, peterhendler
16:02:07 <Zakim> On IRC I see rhausam, Tony, Sajjad_Hussain, Marc_Twagirumukiza, Zakim, RRSAgent, dbooth, cloudcell_, trackbot, ericP
16:02:38 <Zakim> +Ingeborg
16:02:46 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:02:56 <dbooth> zakim, IPcaller is Lloyd
16:02:56 <Zakim> +Lloyd; got it
16:02:58 <Lloyd> Lloyd has joined #HCLS
16:03:00 <Zakim> +rhausam
16:03:19 <Zakim> +??P21
16:03:22 <Kerstin> Kerstin has joined #HCLS
16:03:40 <Zakim> +bpech
16:03:44 <dbooth> zakim, ??P21 is Alexandra
16:03:44 <Zakim> +Alexandra; got it
16:03:47 <ericP> Zakim, ??P21 is Alexandra
16:03:47 <Zakim> I already had ??P21 as Alexandra, ericP
16:03:54 <bpech> bpech has joined #hcls
16:04:00 <Alejandra> Alejandra has joined #HCLS
16:04:08 <Ingeborg> Ingeborg has joined #HCLS
16:04:15 <dbooth> Topic: FHIR Ontology Requirements
16:04:16 <ericP> Zakim, Alexandra is reall Alejandra
16:04:16 <Zakim> I don't understand 'Alexandra is reall Alejandra', ericP
16:04:18 <dbooth> http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=FHIR_Ontology_Requirements
16:04:21 <ericP> Zakim, Alexandra is really Alejandra
16:04:21 <Zakim> +Alejandra; got it
16:04:42 <Zakim> + +1.507.261.aabb
16:05:01 <drjava> drjava has joined #hcls
16:05:03 <dbooth> zakim, aabb is Guoqian
16:05:03 <Zakim> +Guoqian; got it
16:05:37 <GJiang> GJiang has joined #HCLS
16:06:37 <dbooth> Who cannot live with these options?
16:07:29 <dbooth> option A: Sajjad
16:08:00 <dbooth> option: Lloyd, Rob, Tony
16:08:30 <Zakim> -ericP
16:08:42 <dbooth> s/option:/option B:/
16:09:06 <dbooth> option C: Tony
16:09:41 <dbooth> Option D: marc
16:10:09 <dbooth> ... sajjad
16:11:14 <Zakim> +ericP
16:12:45 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:13:02 <Claude> Claude has joined #hcls
16:15:52 <dbooth> Option E: (nobody)
16:16:23 <dbooth> Option F: (nobody)
16:17:01 <dbooth> Option Z: Sajjad, Marc, Tony, Rob
16:18:02 <dbooth> Which option would you prefer between E and F?
16:18:25 <dbooth> Option E?  (nobody)
16:18:39 <Kerstin> F
16:18:59 <Zakim> -Darrell
16:19:11 <dbooth> Option F?  Lloyd, Tony, Marc, Rob, Sajjad, Kerstin, DBooth
16:19:28 <Zakim> +Darrell
16:27:39 <dbooth> Peter: FHIR doesn't say what is Entities, Roles, Participants and Acts.  Is there a rule that says you cannot have anything in the RDF that is not in FHIR?
16:28:11 <dbooth> Lloyd: RDF instances cannot have anything extra that is not round-trippable.  Need to be able to generate the RDF purely from what's in the XML or JSON.
16:29:00 <dbooth> Peter: But then you don't know the difference between an entity and an act.
16:29:38 <dbooth> zakim, help?
16:29:38 <Zakim> Please refer to http://www.w3.org/2001/12/zakim-irc-bot for more detailed help.
16:29:39 <drjava> Q+
16:29:40 <Zakim> Some of the commands I know are:
16:29:40 <Zakim>  xxx is yyy       - establish yyy as the name of unknown party xxx
16:29:40 <Zakim>                     if yyy is 'me' or 'I', your nick is substituted
16:29:40 <Zakim>  xxx may be yyy   - establish yyy as possibly the name of unknown party xxx
16:29:40 <Zakim>  I am xxx         - establish your nick as the name of unknown party xxx
16:29:40 <Zakim>  xxx holds yyy [, zzz ...] - establish xxx as a group name and yyy, etc. as participants within that group
16:29:41 <Zakim>  xxx also holds yyy - add yyy to the list of participants in group xxx
16:29:41 <Zakim>  who's here?      - lists the participants on the phone
16:29:41 <Zakim>  who's muted?     - lists the participants who are muted
16:29:41 <Zakim>  mute xxx         - mutes party xxx (like pressing 61#)
16:29:41 <Zakim>  unmute xxx       - reverses the effect of "mute" and of 61#
16:29:42 <Zakim>  is xxx here?     - reports whether a party named like xxx is present
16:29:42 <Zakim>  list conferences - reports the active conferences
16:29:43 <Zakim>  this is xxx      - associates this channel with conference xxx
16:29:43 <Zakim>  excuse us        - disconnects from the irc channel
16:29:43 <Zakim> I last learned something new on $Date: 2013-03-03 19:18:47 $
16:29:47 <ericP> 41#
16:29:56 <ericP> (where 4 is 'h')
16:30:13 <ericP> Zakim, ack me
16:30:13 <Zakim> I see drjava on the speaker queue
16:30:28 <ericP> you can also do 40# to put your hand down
16:30:38 <dbooth> q?
16:31:42 <dbooth> Peter: Need to be able to round trip, but you can still round trip.  In FHIR there's no concept of backbone classes that we're using heavily for data analysis.  Should have an upper level of RDF that can be mapped for reasoner use.  Then on the way out you can give back what you got from FHIR.
16:32:02 <dbooth> ... But without Entities, Roles, etc. you are extremely limited.
16:32:39 <dbooth> Lloyd: Two things we're producing.  RDF instances, and RDF/OWL ontology.  Instances cannot have extra info in them that is not present in the JSON, to enable lossless round tripping.
16:33:14 <Zakim> -ericP
16:33:37 <Zakim> +??P25
16:33:40 <dbooth> ... But the ontology could in principle include the RIM mappings where they're relevant, and they could include a formal representation of those mappings to enable inference with RIM, but that would be generated from the profiles not from the instances.
16:33:45 <ericP> Zakim, ??P25 is me
16:33:45 <Zakim> +ericP; got it
16:34:34 <dbooth> ... and part of the OWL ontology -- not the instances.  E.g., a BP measurement would say "I am a FHIR observation", and the profile could say "Observataion is a subclass of the RIM observation class, etc"
16:35:39 <dbooth> ... Doing that formal RIM mapping is a large amount of work, not in the scope of this work.   The mappings we have right now are hand wavy.  Good to do, but not part of this effort.
16:35:43 <dbooth> q-
16:35:46 <dbooth> q-
16:35:52 <dbooth> ack drjava
16:35:55 <dbooth> ack lloyd
16:36:00 <dbooth> ack ipcaller
16:36:11 <ericP> Zakim, [IPcaller] is Claude
16:36:11 <Zakim> +Claude; got it
16:36:15 <dbooth> Claude: I agree.  Better to do separately.
16:36:31 <ericP> ack next
16:36:52 <dbooth> Peter, does that address your concerns?
16:36:54 <dbooth> Peter: Yes.
16:37:55 <dbooth> Topic: Common model for data element management and value set binding
16:37:57 <dbooth> http://wiki.hl7.org/index.php?title=RDF_for_Semantic_Interoperability#Common_model_for_data_element_management_and_value_set_binding
16:38:29 <ericP> -> http://www.w3.org/2015/Talks/0203-11179-egp/ 11179 stuff
16:38:39 <dbooth> http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-semweb-lifesci/2015Jan/0042.html
16:38:47 <Alejandra_> Alejandra_ has joined #HCLS
16:38:55 <Alejandra_> could you please share the link again?
16:39:04 <Alejandra_> I lost connection and missed the link
16:39:13 <dbooth> http://www.w3.org/2015/Talks/0203-11179-egp/
16:39:17 <Alejandra_> Thanks!
16:39:34 <dbooth> (Eric discusses above slides)
16:44:33 <Marc_Twagirumukiza> excuse us
16:45:55 <Zakim> -Marc_Twagirumukiza
16:49:39 <Kerstin> Also the EU project SALUS uses ISO11179 - SemamticMDR http://www.srdc.com.tr/projects/salus/blog/?p=181
16:51:23 <Kerstin> PhUSE uses only the lower part of he core four-model, that is not the conceptual top only the representaional to represent CDISC standard data elements
16:51:26 <dbooth> Eric: 11179 does not have a serialization.  Need to parse it out, extract the value domains, see if the concepts are in the same conceptual space.
16:52:01 <dbooth> ... Concepts are tied back to UMLS Semantic Network.
16:52:43 <Alejandra_> Enterprise Vocabulary Services: http://evs.nci.nih.gov/
16:52:51 <dbooth> ... We'll be debugging the things in the CSR, testing.
16:53:29 <dbooth> ... Ideally we'll be able to find things in the CA DSR that are the same in 11179 and use that to transfer data back and forth.
16:53:59 <dbooth> ... We'll be using Shape Expressions (ShEx) -- kind of a higher level way to write sparql.  Can also do transformations.
16:54:21 <dbooth> ack alejandra
16:54:34 <dbooth> Alejandra: Are you using an ontology for 11179 concepts?
16:54:54 <dbooth> Eric: That's one of the steps.  Need to see if it is good enough.
16:55:35 <dbooth> Alejandra: I did work relying on CA DSR and created some ontologies to enable queries, but recently came back to this and found an ont for 11179.
16:56:33 <dbooth> Eric: There's a bunch of work I showed, transforming CCDA to FHIR.  Enough people to work on that (validation and transformation task force)?
16:57:18 <dbooth> Who is interested in a validation and transformation task force (~1 hr/wk)?
16:57:43 <dbooth> Ingeborg: I am.  ONC health IT strategic plan talked about collecting CT data through caDSR.
16:57:53 <dbooth> ... Will that do the job?
16:58:19 <dbooth> Eric: My guess is no, but probably it will help.
16:58:22 <Kerstin> Please contact anil@srdc.com.tr working for the SALUS project creating the ontology representing ISO11179. I'm on the advisory board for SALUS and know there are interactions between the folks behind caDSR/EVS and Anil.
16:58:32 <dbooth> Others interested in val/trans TF?
16:58:36 <Kerstin> I'm also interested
16:58:38 <dbooth> Alejandra: I'm interested
16:58:45 <dbooth> Kerstin: interested.
16:58:58 <dbooth> Alejandra: How is this related to the Validation WG?
16:59:16 <Zakim> -peterhendler
16:59:37 <dbooth> Eric: SPARQL is verbose. ShEx allows semantic actions to be specified, so that during validation, another form of the data can be emitted.
17:00:22 <dbooth> Alejandra: These things are relevant to the big data to knowledge project Im' working on.
17:01:33 <dbooth> Guoqian: These are initial slides.  We may have a common semantic model to enable harmonization between different clinical models.  Starting point might be consider how to create a standard representation of ISO 11179 in RDF/OWL.
17:01:50 <Tony> Q+
17:01:53 <Alejandra_> Kerstin, I was reading about the SALUS project
17:02:03 <Zakim> -Claude
17:02:20 <dbooth> ... Also a DOD.
17:02:24 <Kerstin> An earlier project between AstraZeneca and IBM to build a ISO11179 based "Clinical Reference Library" http://www.slideshare.net/kerfors/designing-and-launching-the-clinical-reference-library
17:02:36 <dbooth> Tony: Isn't the work going on in ISO about this?
17:02:41 <Zakim> -bpech
17:02:50 <dbooth> ... re 11179.  Anyone tracking it?
17:03:23 <dbooth> Guoqian: We're working closely with the people in that group.
17:03:57 <Zakim> -Kerstin_Forsberg
17:03:59 <Zakim> -Darrell
17:04:00 <dbooth> ADJOURNED
17:04:01 <Zakim> -Tony
17:04:01 <Zakim> -Lloyd
17:04:04 <Zakim> -Ingeborg
17:04:07 <Zakim> -rhausam
17:04:09 <Zakim> -Guoqian
17:04:11 <Zakim> -Sajjad_Hussain
17:04:13 <Zakim> -DBooth
17:04:13 <Zakim> -ericP
17:04:15 <Zakim> -Alejandra
17:04:15 <Zakim> SW_HCLS()11:00AM has ended
17:04:15 <Zakim> Attendees were +1.512.680.aaaa, DBooth, Darrell, Marc_Twagirumukiza, Tony, ericP, Kerstin_Forsberg, Sajjad_Hussain, peterhendler, Ingeborg, Lloyd, rhausam, bpech, Alejandra,
17:04:15 <Zakim> ... +1.507.261.aabb, Guoqian, Claude
17:04:21 <dbooth> Chair: David Booth
17:04:26 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:04:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/10-hcls-minutes.html dbooth
17:07:11 <revenge-of-ericP> revenge-of-ericP has joined #hcls
17:07:19 <revenge-of-ericP> type type type
17:09:01 <Lloyd-again> Lloyd-again has joined #HCLS
17:13:27 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:13:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/10-hcls-minutes.html dbooth
17:14:04 <dbooth> ericP, rrsagent seems to be stuck.  Not generating minutes.
17:15:02 <ericP> yeah, i see http://www.w3.org/2015/02/10-hcls-irc but not http://www.w3.org/2015/02/10-hcls-minutes
17:15:44 <ericP> maybe try again in an hour and see if you get lucky. then fallback to running the script by hand.
17:15:47 <Lloyd-3> Lloyd-3 has joined #HCLS
17:15:55 <dbooth> ok
17:16:38 <Lloyd-4> Lloyd-4 has joined #HCLS
17:17:24 <Lloyd-5> Lloyd-5 has joined #HCLS
17:26:15 <ericP2> ericP2 has joined #hcls
19:18:16 <Claude> Claude has joined #hcls
19:20:46 <dbooth> Present: David_Booth, Darrell, Marc_Twagirumukiza, Tony_Mallia, EricP, Kerstin_Forsberg, Sajjad_Hussain, Peter_Hendler, Ingeborg, Lloyd_McKenzie, Rob_Hausam, Brian_Pech, Alejandra, Guoqian_Jiang, Claude_Nanjo
19:20:55 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
19:20:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/10-hcls-minutes.html dbooth
19:30:20 <Zakim> Zakim has left #hcls
19:36:42 <dbooth> s/CA DSR/caDSR/g
19:36:45 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
19:36:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/10-hcls-minutes.html dbooth
19:38:23 <dbooth> i/Who cannot live with these options?/David: Discussing requirement #11.
19:38:26 <dbooth> rrsagent, draft minutes
19:38:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/10-hcls-minutes.html dbooth
19:57:02 <Claude> Claude has joined #hcls
20:11:33 <Claude> Claude has joined #hcls
21:11:49 <Claude> Claude has joined #hcls