15:35:37 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #dpub
15:35:37 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/02/09-dpub-irc
15:35:39 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:35:39 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #dpub
15:35:41 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be dpub
15:35:41 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 25 minutes
15:35:42 <trackbot> Meeting: Digital Publishing Interest Group Teleconference
15:35:42 <trackbot> Date: 09 February 2015
15:52:20 <clapierre1> clapierre1 has joined #DPUB
15:55:25 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has now started
15:55:32 <Zakim> +clapierre
15:57:23 <philm> philm has joined #dpub
15:57:25 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:57:34 <phil_m> phil_m has joined #dpub
15:57:39 <HeatherF> HeatherF has joined #dpub
15:57:56 <tzviya> tzviya has joined #dpub
15:58:11 <Zakim> +philm
15:58:12 <laudrain> laudrain has joined #dpub
15:58:19 <Zakim> +Tzviya
15:58:49 <Zakim> +MikeMiller
15:59:05 <NickRuffilo> NickRuffilo has joined #dpub
15:59:15 <tmichel> tmichel has joined #dpub
15:59:21 <AH_Miller> AH_Miller has joined #DPUB
15:59:48 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
16:00:01 <Zakim> +[IPcaller.a]
16:00:02 <Zakim> +azaroth
16:00:18 <liza> liza has joined #dpub
16:00:28 <Zakim> +NickRuffilo
16:00:38 <Zakim> +Karen_Myers
16:00:45 <Zakim> + +33.6.48.38.aaaa
16:01:02 <mgarrish> mgarrish has joined #dpub
16:01:06 <Vlad> Vlad has joined #dpub
16:01:11 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
16:01:11 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
16:01:13 <Zakim> +Ivan
16:01:20 <ivan> zakim, drop me
16:01:20 <Zakim> Ivan is being disconnected
16:01:21 <Zakim> -Ivan
16:01:44 <Zakim> +Vlad
16:01:54 <ivan> zakim, dial ivan-voip
16:01:54 <Zakim> ok, ivan; the call is being made
16:01:56 <azaroth> zakim, who is here?
16:01:57 <Zakim> +Ivan
16:01:57 <Zakim> On the phone I see clapierre, [IPcaller], philm, Tzviya, MikeMiller, [GVoice], [IPcaller.a], azaroth, NickRuffilo, Karen_Myers, +33.6.48.38.aaaa, Ivan (muted), Vlad
16:01:58 <Zakim> On IRC I see Vlad, mgarrish, liza, AH_Miller, tmichel, NickRuffilo, laudrain, tzviya, HeatherF, phil_m, philm, clapierre1, Zakim, RRSAgent, azaroth, r12a, ivan, rego, mihnea_____,
16:01:58 <Zakim> ... Karen, liam, iank, astearns, dkaplan3, plinss, trackbot
16:02:05 <r12a> zakim, dial richard please
16:02:05 <Zakim> ok, r12a; the call is being made
16:02:06 <Zakim> +Richard
16:02:09 <HeatherF> zakim, IPcaller is HeatherF
16:02:09 <Zakim> +HeatherF; got it
16:02:15 <Zakim> +lfowler
16:02:23 <lfowler> lfowler has joined #dpub
16:02:23 <Zakim> + +1.512.445.aabb
16:02:29 <Susann_Keohane> Susann_Keohane has joined #dpub
16:02:38 <ivan> Regrets: Ben, Dave, Peter, Markus
16:02:43 <astein> astein has joined #dpub
16:02:49 <tzviya> agenda: * Approval of last week's minutes [1]
16:02:49 <tzviya> * W3C publications relevant to publishing [2]
16:02:49 <tzviya> *i18n documentation review (Heather, Liza) [3]
16:02:49 <tzviya> * Document and fragment identification – A new direction for the Metadata TF
16:02:49 <tzviya> * Personalization use cases (Tzviya) [4]
16:02:49 <Zakim> +Ruben
16:02:50 <tzviya> * Footnote element in HTML (link to email chain) (time permitting) [5]
16:02:50 <tzviya> * Meeting on 16 Feb (US Presidents’ Day)
16:02:52 <Zakim> +??P15
16:02:53 <bjdmeest> bjdmeest has joined #dpub
16:02:55 <Susann_Keohane> zakim, aabb is Susann_Keohane
16:02:56 <Zakim> +Susann_Keohane; got it
16:03:05 <bjdmeest> zakim, who is here?
16:03:05 <Zakim> On the phone I see clapierre, HeatherF, philm, Tzviya, MikeMiller, [GVoice], [IPcaller.a], azaroth, NickRuffilo, Karen_Myers, +33.6.48.38.aaaa, Ivan, Vlad, Richard, lfowler,
16:03:06 <tmichel> zakim, ??P15 is me
16:03:07 <ivan> zakim, aaaa is Luc
16:03:08 <Zakim> ... Susann_Keohane, Ruben, ??P15
16:03:08 <Zakim> On IRC I see bjdmeest, astein, Susann_Keohane, lfowler, Vlad, mgarrish, liza, AH_Miller, tmichel, NickRuffilo, laudrain, tzviya, HeatherF, phil_m, philm, clapierre1, Zakim,
16:03:08 <Zakim> ... RRSAgent, azaroth, r12a, ivan, rego, mihnea_____, Karen, liam, iank, astearns, dkaplan3, plinss, trackbot
16:03:08 <Zakim> +tmichel; got it
16:03:09 <Zakim> +Luc; got it
16:03:09 <tzviya> scribenick: laudrain
16:03:14 <bjdmeest> zakim, Ruben is me
16:03:14 <Zakim> +bjdmeest; got it
16:03:16 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #dpub
16:03:21 <bjdmeest> Present+ Ben_De_Meester
16:03:25 <tzviya> zakim, who is noisy?
16:03:34 <Zakim> + +1.217.300.aacc
16:03:42 <Zakim> tzviya, listening for 15 seconds I heard sound from the following: Vlad (46%)
16:03:49 <brady_duga> brady_duga has joined #dpub
16:04:29 <liza> zakim, GVoice is me
16:04:30 <Zakim> +liza; got it
16:04:34 <ivan> zakim, aacc is astein
16:04:34 <Zakim> +astein; got it
16:04:44 <ivan> zakim, who is here?
16:04:44 <Zakim> On the phone I see clapierre, HeatherF, philm, Tzviya, MikeMiller, liza, [IPcaller.a], azaroth, NickRuffilo, Karen_Myers, Luc, Ivan, Vlad, Richard, lfowler, Susann_Keohane,
16:04:48 <Zakim> ... bjdmeest, tmichel, astein
16:04:48 <Zakim> On IRC I see brady_duga, Bill_Kasdorf, bjdmeest, astein, Susann_Keohane, lfowler, Vlad, mgarrish, liza, AH_Miller, tmichel, NickRuffilo, laudrain, tzviya, HeatherF, phil_m, philm,
16:04:48 <Zakim> ... clapierre1, Zakim, RRSAgent, azaroth, r12a, ivan, rego, mihnea_____, Karen, liam, iank, astearns, dkaplan3, plinss, trackbot
16:05:21 <Zakim> +brady_duga
16:06:08 <laudrain> item 1 : last week minutes
16:06:11 <tzviya> http://www.w3.org/2015/02/02-dpub-minutes.html
16:06:23 <laudrain> No comments, minutes approuved
16:06:42 <laudrain> item 2 : W3C publications relevant to publishing
16:06:46 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/W3C_specs_for_DPUB
16:06:54 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:06:54 <ivan> s/item 2/Topic/
16:07:04 <Mike_Miller> Mike_Miller has joined #DPUB
16:07:46 <laudrain> Thierry : document discuued 3 weeks ago, concerned by not enough review
16:07:55 <laudrain> Lisa sent a reply
16:08:07 <tzviya> s/lisa/Liza
16:08:12 <ivan> s/discuued/discussed/
16:08:13 <laudrain> Heather will comment this week
16:08:18 <liza> I will also comment
16:08:30 <laudrain> Still open this week
16:08:55 <laudrain> liam, richard did contribute : please add to the document
16:09:03 <tzviya> q?
16:09:29 <laudrain> in a week, pushed to the public wiki
16:09:42 <laudrain> item 2 :  Document and fragment identification – A new direction for the Metadata TF
16:09:42 <ivan> Topic: document and fragment identification
16:11:02 <laudrain> Ivan : issue in the white apaper on identification
16:11:21 <laudrain> Discussed earlier on proper URL to documents
16:11:46 <Zakim> +[Ugent]
16:11:47 <laudrain> Finding the URL is an issue  for this IG
16:11:57 <laudrain> More in EPUB-WEB
16:12:22 <HeatherF> Note: we skipped the i18n discussion on the agenda. Come back to it after Doc and fragment id?
16:12:27 <laudrain> Docuemnt on-line going off-line, links have to remain alive
16:12:40 <ivan> https://github.com/w3c/epubweb/wiki/Identification
16:12:44 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
16:12:47 <laudrain> Which infrastructure to enable that?
16:13:09 <Julie> Julie has joined #dpub
16:13:10 <Hajar> Hajar has joined #dpub
16:13:11 <laudrain> Ivan maed a xrite-up on the wiki page, see link
16:13:19 <tmichel> zakim, who is here?
16:13:19 <Zakim> On the phone I see clapierre, HeatherF, philm, Tzviya, MikeMiller, liza, [IPcaller.a], azaroth, NickRuffilo, Karen_Myers, Luc, Ivan, Vlad, Richard, lfowler, Susann_Keohane,
16:13:23 <Zakim> ... bjdmeest, tmichel, astein, brady_duga, [Ugent] (muted)
16:13:23 <Zakim> On IRC I see Hajar, Julie, Mike_Miller, brady_duga, Bill_Kasdorf, bjdmeest, astein, Susann_Keohane, lfowler, Vlad, mgarrish, liza, tmichel, NickRuffilo, laudrain, tzviya, HeatherF,
16:13:23 <Zakim> ... phil_m, philm, clapierre1, Zakim, RRSAgent, azaroth, r12a, ivan, rego, mihnea_____, Karen, liam, iank, astearns, dkaplan3, plinss, trackbot
16:13:33 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:13:35 <laudrain> Any body should read through to improve it
16:14:13 <laudrain> comment or modify directly, or email, but discussion is expected
16:15:03 <laudrain> Liza : take a look, and will be discussed following weeks
16:15:06 <ivan> Topic: I18N
16:15:15 <laudrain> Topic 3 : i18n documentation review
16:15:33 <laudrain> review of typography on the web
16:16:01 <laudrain> link : [3] https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-digipub-ig/2015Feb/0042.html
16:16:29 <laudrain> help prioritize the docuepmnt
16:17:18 <laudrain> ? : subject missings, page media for not web centric media
16:17:29 <tzviya> s/?/Liza
16:17:46 <laudrain> widows and orphans in international languages
16:18:04 <tzviya> q?
16:18:07 <laudrain> some presentation may be missing
16:18:09 <TimCole> TimCole has joined #dpub
16:18:17 <Julie> Jule's following along on IRC only today
16:18:41 <Zakim> +??P19
16:18:57 <laudrain> richard : next steps, suggestions helpful for layout requirements
16:19:19 <laudrain> recomandations welcome
16:19:30 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Layout_links
16:19:50 <laudrain> arabic text, urdu text justification
16:20:05 <r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/wiki/Improving_typography_on_the_Web_and_in_eBooks
16:20:12 <laudrain> let know of any good articles to add to this list
16:20:30 <tzviya> q?
16:20:32 <laudrain> missing : quotation marks in other scriots
16:20:44 <laudrain> s/scriots/scripts/
16:21:21 <laudrain> tzviya : how to make recommandations?
16:21:52 <laudrain> richard : japanese satandard could speak authoritavely
16:22:21 <laudrain> arabic in more dificult getting the reperesentative people
16:23:09 <laudrain> recruit people who are really experts, memeber of a group in that script community
16:23:19 <tzviya> q?
16:23:39 <laudrain> any good article welcome
16:24:01 <ivan> zakim, ??P19 is TimCole
16:24:01 <Zakim> +TimCole; got it
16:24:08 <laudrain> Topic 4 :  Personalization use cases
16:24:22 <tzviya> https://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/wiki/UseCase_Directory#Personalization
16:24:35 <laudrain> separate personalization in t a specific link
16:24:57 <laudrain> add-in appreciated
16:25:58 <laudrain> everibody should look into it
16:26:09 <tzviya> q?
16:26:36 <laudrain> Brady : need real work done from the CSS WG
16:27:05 <laudrain> certains rules in writing CSS
16:27:19 <laudrain> which way to accomplish these rules?
16:27:55 <HeatherF> q
16:27:56 <HeatherF> q?
16:28:00 <laudrain> action item for Brady
16:28:00 <trackbot> Error finding 'item'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/track/users>.
16:28:33 <tzviya> action brady to add information to personalization use cases
16:28:34 <trackbot> Created ACTION-45 - Add information to personalization use cases [on Brady Duga - due 2015-02-16].
16:28:38 <tzviya> q?
16:28:38 <laudrain> for CSS wizard only
16:28:52 <HeatherF> q+
16:28:52 <liza> User stylesheets have been removed from many browsers, no?
16:29:03 <laudrain> make it easier to use default stylesheet
16:29:26 <laudrain> based on the cascade, then very diffcult to change
16:29:46 <tzviya> ack heatherF
16:29:47 <laudrain> the default CSS removed form browser
16:29:51 <liza> (I'm trying to find a citation for my comment)
16:30:09 <liza> https://src.chromium.org/viewvc/chrome?revision=234007&view=revision
16:30:18 <laudrain> Heather : it does not necessarily work?
16:30:31 <laudrain> Brady : we need to speak to CSS WG
16:30:57 <tzviya> q?
16:30:59 <laudrain> tzviya : gather personalization in one place
16:31:18 <laudrain> Topic 5 : Footnote element in HTML
16:31:30 <laudrain> a lot of mail
16:31:35 <bjdmeest> bjdmeest has joined #dpub
16:31:44 <laudrain> HTML has proposed to include a footnote element
16:31:56 <laudrain> asking for a feedback from us
16:32:26 <laudrain> interation between html element, aria role, CSS class?
16:32:50 <laudrain> Definition : that element is a foonote
16:33:16 <laudrain> <foontnote> doesn’t mean anythng about placement
16:33:23 <laudrain> espcially in digital space
16:33:50 <laudrain> in print product, it may vary in placement
16:34:23 <tzviya> q?
16:34:24 <Zakim> -liza
16:34:26 <ivan> q+
16:34:32 <laudrain> HTML5 footnote : do we support the introduction of this element
16:34:33 <tzviya> ack ivan
16:34:34 <Bill_Kasdorf> Agree with everything Tzviya said so far, except to point out that there are other types beyond footnote and endnote. That just reinforces her points.
16:35:02 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:35:20 <laudrain> ivan: non publisher, waht foonote brings compare to aside?
16:35:29 <r12a> footnote tend to have anchors
16:35:56 <Zakim> -[Ugent]
16:35:56 <tzviya> q?
16:36:06 <laudrain> tzviya : we could propose a definition
16:36:22 <laudrain> asides implies more tahn footnote
16:36:29 <laudrain> s/tahn/than/
16:36:33 <tzviya> ack Bill_kasdorf
16:36:40 <laudrain> BiilK : footnote are asides
16:37:01 <laudrain> footnote has a reference
16:37:30 <laudrain> it is a valid semantic add
16:37:34 <tzviya> q?
16:37:56 <Bill_Kasdorf> s/ are asides / are not always asides
16:38:03 <laudrain> add for the proposed definition
16:38:10 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to making footnote an HTML element
16:38:12 <laudrain> adding thsi element is a good idea
16:38:15 <laudrain> q+
16:38:18 <NickRuffilo> +1 For HTML element
16:38:20 <tzviya> ack luch
16:38:20 <azaroth> +0
16:38:33 <TimCole> q+
16:38:33 <NickRuffilo> q+
16:38:43 <ivan> ack laudrain
16:38:50 <tzviya> ack laudrain
16:38:59 <tzviya> ack TimCole
16:39:33 <laudrain> Tim : concern in encouraging this, take away from annotation
16:39:41 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:39:55 <laudrain> potential end up with just that
16:40:07 <azaroth> +1 to TimCole
16:40:16 <clapierre1> +1 as long as there is a way to specify the "type" of note this is
16:40:30 <laudrain> tzviya : for very basic footnote it is suffiecient
16:40:34 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1 to charles
16:40:44 <NickRuffilo> q-
16:40:54 <laudrain> then a working definition should precise that
16:41:43 <Bill_Kasdorf> q-
16:41:50 <tzviya> q?
16:41:57 <laudrain> ? : annotation use cases go beyond the document
16:42:13 <ivan> s/?/azaroth/
16:42:14 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:42:15 <laudrain> author notes vs reader notes
16:42:18 <tzviya> ?/s/azaroth
16:42:42 <laudrain> document authors coud use annotations
16:42:45 <tzviya> ack bill_Kasdorf
16:43:21 <laudrain> BiilK : footnotes are part of the text, intrisically
16:43:48 <bjdmeest> bjdmeest has joined #dpub
16:44:18 <tzviya> action contact HTML for working definition of footnote element
16:44:18 <trackbot> Error finding 'contact'. You can review and register nicknames at <http://www.w3.org/dpub/IG/track/users>.
16:44:18 <laudrain> tzviy to contact html group for footnote definition
16:44:45 <ivan> action tzviya to contact the HTML WG for a working definition of footnote
16:44:46 <trackbot> Created ACTION-46 - Contact the html wg for a working definition of footnote [on Tzviya Siegman - due 2015-02-16].
16:44:49 <laudrain> publishers and authors think as foonotes not annotations
16:45:01 <tzviya> q?
16:45:16 <laudrain> Topic 6 : Meeting on 16 Feb?
16:45:36 <laudrain> President ’s day in the US, most office are closed
16:45:37 <TimCole> not most universities
16:45:56 <laudrain> q+
16:45:56 <Vlad> I am traveling next week, regrets from me
16:45:57 <NickRuffilo> q+
16:46:02 <tzviya> q?
16:46:04 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
16:46:08 <philm> Our office is closed
16:46:11 <Mike_Miller> traveling on Monday
16:46:15 <azaroth> To scribe my perspective:  With a footnote element, there is a divide between notes added within the HTML document and those added by third parties, that might be otherwise identical in semantics, form and rendering. Avoiding two ways of doing the same thing is IMO preferable
16:46:22 <Karen> Out on 16 Feb
16:46:23 <NickRuffilo> q-
16:46:23 <HeatherF> I'm available, but I suspect I'm in the minority.
16:46:41 <laudrain> next meeting on Feb 23rd
16:47:18 <laudrain> Matt introduction
16:47:24 <tzviya> ack laudrain
16:47:59 <tzviya> ack Bill_Kasdorf
16:48:03 <tzviya> q?
16:48:39 <laudrain> tzviya : F2F meeting in May, wiki page
16:48:43 <r12a> q+
16:48:52 <tzviya> ack r12a
16:48:53 <laudrain> 26th of May at Hachette Book Group, NYC
16:49:20 <r12a> http://www.w3.org/TR/predefined-counter-styles/
16:49:25 <laudrain> Richard : CSS WG published a document last week
16:49:41 <laudrain> on counter styles
16:49:58 <laudrain> codes for footnotes counters
16:50:26 <laudrain> an app implement this things
16:50:29 <tzviya> q?
16:50:53 <r12a> http://rishida.net/tools/numberconverter/
16:51:02 <laudrain> all answers to autoate numbering
16:51:23 <laudrain> s/autoate/automate/
16:51:24 <tzviya> s/autoate/automate
16:51:54 <laudrain> tzviya : packaging spec!
16:52:10 <bkardell_> bkardell_ has joined #dpub
16:52:16 <laudrain> also the linkit(?) spec
16:52:31 <laudrain> thank you
16:52:35 <Zakim> -astein
16:52:36 <azaroth> Thanks all :)
16:52:37 <Zakim> -[IPcaller]
16:52:38 <Zakim> -Susann_Keohane
16:52:38 <Zakim> -lfowler
16:52:39 <Zakim> -philm
16:52:39 <Zakim> -HeatherF
16:52:40 <Zakim> -Karen_Myers
16:52:41 <Zakim> -brady_duga
16:52:41 <Zakim> -[IPcaller.a]
16:52:42 <Zakim> -Tzviya
16:52:42 <Zakim> -Ivan
16:52:43 <Zakim> -bjdmeest
16:52:43 <Zakim> -clapierre
16:52:44 <Zakim> -Luc
16:52:44 <Zakim> -azaroth
16:52:44 <Zakim> -Vlad
16:52:45 <Zakim> -NickRuffilo
16:52:51 <tmichel> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:52:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/09-dpub-minutes.html tmichel
16:52:59 <Zakim> -TimCole
16:53:09 <Zakim> -tmichel
16:53:41 <Mike_Miller> disconnect
16:53:42 <r12a> zakim, drop richard
16:53:42 <Zakim> Richard is being disconnected
16:53:43 <Mike_Miller> exit
16:53:43 <Zakim> -Richard
16:55:20 <clapierre1> clapierre1 has left #dpub
17:04:32 <Zakim> -MikeMiller
17:04:33 <Zakim> DPUB_DPUBIG()11:00AM has ended
17:04:33 <Zakim> Attendees were clapierre, philm, Tzviya, MikeMiller, azaroth, NickRuffilo, Karen_Myers, +33.6.48.38.aaaa, Ivan, Vlad, Richard, HeatherF, lfowler, +1.512.445.aabb, Susann_Keohane,
17:04:33 <Zakim> ... tmichel, Luc, bjdmeest, +1.217.300.aacc, liza, astein, brady_duga, [IPcaller], [Ugent], TimCole
17:54:18 <tmichel> rrsagent, draft minutes
17:54:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/09-dpub-minutes.html tmichel
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