15:30:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wai-wcag
15:30:52 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/02/03-wai-wcag-irc
15:30:54 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs public
15:30:54 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #wai-wcag
15:30:56 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_WCAG
15:30:56 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_WCAG()11:00AM scheduled to start in 30 minutes
15:30:57 <trackbot> Meeting: Web Content Accessibility Guidelines Working Group Teleconference
15:30:57 <trackbot> Date: 03 February 2015
15:30:58 <Joshue> zakim, agenda?
15:30:58 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
15:31:05 <Joshue> zakim, clear agenda
15:31:05 <Zakim> agenda cleared
15:31:11 <Joshue> Chair: Joshue
15:32:26 <Joshue> agenda+ [WAI tutorials] continuing Tables Tutorial,Tutorials cover page review: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/TutorialsCIT/results#xtables
15:32:40 <Joshue> agenda+ Text Clarification and a draft technique (thanks Marc Johlic and Mike Elledge)
15:32:40 <Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/3rd_Feb2015/
15:33:04 <Joshue> agenda+ First Public Working Draft (FPWD) of a W3C Note from the Mobile-A11y TF:
15:33:05 <Joshue> Mobile Accessibility: How WCAG 2.0 and UAAG 2.0 Apply to Mobile Devices.
15:33:05 <Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/35422/3rd_Feb2015/
15:33:15 <Joshue> agenda+ [Scrub of actions] - please review actions on the list which are yours before the call.
15:33:15 <Joshue> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/open
15:33:23 <Joshue> Scribe list:https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
15:56:08 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has now started
15:56:15 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
15:56:18 <Joshue> zakim [IPcaller] is Joshue
15:56:28 <Joshue> zakim, [IPcaller] is Joshue
15:56:28 <Zakim> +Joshue; got it
15:58:26 <Zakim> + +1.617.766.aaaa
15:58:33 <AWK> AWK has joined #wai-wcag
15:59:04 <AWK> Zakim, who is on the phone?
15:59:04 <Zakim> On the phone I see Joshue, +1.617.766.aaaa
15:59:12 <AWK> Zakim, aaaa is AWK
15:59:12 <Zakim> +AWK; got it
16:00:57 <Zakim> + +1.313.390.aabb
16:01:08 <Kathy> Kathy has joined #wai-wcag
16:01:38 <marcjohlic> marcjohlic has joined #wai-wcag
16:02:30 <Zakim> +Kathy_Wahlbin
16:02:49 <Mike_Elledge> Mike_Elledge has joined #wai-wcag
16:02:53 <jon_avila> jon_avila has joined #wai-wcag
16:03:22 <Zakim> + +1.703.637.aacc
16:03:28 <jon_avila> zakim, I am aacc
16:03:28 <Zakim> +jon_avila; got it
16:03:44 <Zakim> +Kenny
16:03:57 <Joshue> zakim, agenda?
16:03:57 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda:
16:03:58 <Zakim> 1. [WAI tutorials] continuing Tables Tutorial,Tutorials cover page review: https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/1/TutorialsCIT/results#xtables [from Joshue]
16:03:58 <Zakim> 2. Text Clarification and a draft technique (thanks Marc Johlic and Mike Elledge) [from Joshue]
16:03:58 <Zakim> 3. First Public Working Draft (FPWD) of a W3C Note from the Mobile-A11y TF: [from Joshue]
16:03:58 <Zakim> 4. [Scrub of actions] - please review actions on the list which are yours before the call. [from Joshue]
16:04:01 <Zakim> +Marc_Johlic
16:04:12 <Loretta> Loretta has joined #wai-wcag
16:04:52 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
16:04:57 <yatil> zakim, call EricE-Skype
16:04:57 <Zakim> ok, yatil; the call is being made
16:04:58 <Zakim> +EricE
16:05:03 <Loretta> zakim, IPcaller is Loretta
16:05:03 <Zakim> +Loretta; got it
16:05:09 <yatil> zakim, nick yatil is EricE
16:05:09 <Zakim> ok, yatil, I now associate you with EricE
16:05:11 <yatil> zakim, mute me
16:05:11 <Zakim> EricE should now be muted
16:06:06 <Joshue> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/Scribe_List
16:06:12 <Loretta> scribe:Loretta
16:06:31 <Loretta> take up item 1
16:07:13 <Zakim> -EricE
16:07:24 <yatil> zakim, call EricE-Skype
16:07:24 <Zakim> ok, yatil; the call is being made
16:07:26 <Zakim> +EricE
16:07:37 <yatil> zakim, nick yatil is EricE
16:07:37 <Zakim> ok, yatil, I now associate you with EricE
16:07:40 <yatil> zakim, mute me
16:07:40 <Zakim> EricE should now be muted
16:07:46 <Loretta> Josh: Support for this seems quite strong
16:08:35 <Loretta> Josh: we discussed summary techniques last week. Not a showstopper.
16:09:49 <Zakim> +??P29
16:09:56 <Loretta> Josh:: Did we fix the PDF reference last week?
16:10:12 <Loretta> AWK: We agreed upon a change; I don't know whether it has been made yet.
16:10:24 <yatil> ack me
16:10:24 <yatil> ack me
16:10:24 <yatil> ack me
16:11:20 <Loretta> EricE: I'll make the change when we are done reviewing.
16:11:28 <yatil> Zakim, mute me
16:11:28 <Zakim> EricE should now be muted
16:11:33 <Zakim> -EricE
16:11:54 <yatil> zakim, call EricE-Skype
16:11:54 <Zakim> ok, yatil; the call is being made
16:11:55 <Zakim> +EricE
16:12:00 <AWK> http://www.w3.org/WAI/tutorials/tables/multi-directional/
16:12:07 <Loretta> AWK: Want to discuss advice for multidirection tables.
16:12:10 <yatil> zakim, nick yatil is EricE
16:12:10 <Zakim> ok, yatil, I now associate you with EricE
16:12:13 <yatil> zakim, mute me
16:12:13 <Zakim> EricE should now be muted
16:14:05 <Loretta> AWK: THere is disagreement in the examples between simple and complex tables about the use of scope. Similar table examples have different markup.
16:14:38 <Joshue> q+ to ask if these examples are really Multidirectional tables?
16:14:43 <Loretta> AWK: This leaves me confused.
16:14:54 <yatil> ack me
16:15:29 <Loretta> EricE: multidirectional tables was originally named "ambiguous tables"
16:15:55 <Joshue> q?
16:16:36 <Loretta> EricE: Basic tables have no scope attributes; the multidimensional tables are unclear, so scope helps make the relationships clearer.
16:16:47 <AWK> q+
16:17:06 <Loretta> Josh: Is the issue that the content could be interpreted in more than one way?
16:17:20 <Loretta> EricE: yes
16:17:25 <Joshue> ack me
16:17:25 <Zakim> Joshue, you wanted to ask if these examples are really Multidirectional tables?
16:17:55 <Loretta> Josh: are the tables really multidimensional? THey seem like simple tables to me.
16:18:17 <Loretta> EricE: a better title would be "tables with direction" or "table headings with direction".
16:18:42 <Joshue> ack awk
16:18:57 <Joshue> zakim, mute me
16:18:57 <Zakim> Joshue should now be muted
16:19:02 <Joshue> ack me
16:19:27 <Loretta> AWK: We have lots of categories of tables, but we don't have just regular tables.
16:19:39 <Joshue> Example 3 is good
16:19:53 <Loretta> AWK: Table 2 from multidirectional tables would be a good example.
16:20:20 <Loretta> AWK: For basic tables, there are some simplifications you can make.
16:20:46 <Loretta> AWK: I think we will have trouble identifying ambiguous data in tables.
16:21:03 <Loretta> AWK: I think that would be  aclearer message.
16:22:10 <Loretta> Josh: Example 4 seems closest to a multidimensional table.
16:23:00 <Loretta> AWK: if people on the call agree with my suggestion, I would be happy to draft a suggested set of changes to send to Eric.
16:23:02 <Joshue> q?
16:23:10 <Loretta> AWK: But I dont want to do this unless there is some agreement.
16:23:31 <Mike_Elledge> q+
16:24:10 <Joshue> ack Mike
16:24:12 <Loretta> EricE: I would be happy to have Andrew do this.
16:25:06 <Loretta> Mike_Elledge: Asks for clarification of the proposal.
16:25:54 <Loretta> AWK: Not restructuring the entire structure. Convert the multi-dimensional section into 2: "normal" tables vs multidimensional tables.
16:30:31 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
16:31:10 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #wai-wcag
16:31:16 <Loretta> Josh: We will wait to see the revisions before calling the questino on this tutorial.
16:31:20 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
16:31:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/03-wai-wcag-minutes.html jamesn
16:31:27 <Loretta> s/ino/ion
16:32:24 <Loretta> agenda
16:32:43 <Loretta> zakim, take up next
16:32:43 <Zakim> agendum 2. "Text Clarification and a draft technique (thanks Marc Johlic and Mike Elledge)" taken up [from Joshue]
16:34:29 <yatil> zakim, mute me
16:34:29 <Zakim> EricE should now be muted
16:34:39 <Joshue> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/70
16:35:01 <Joshue> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/issues/69
16:35:31 <Joshue> [Text clarification] Restating flash and red flash thresholds for clarity
16:35:46 <Loretta>  [Text clarification] Restating flash and red flash thresholds for clarity
16:36:52 <Loretta> The request for clarification came for text in the normative spec. So we cannot change the wording, but could hold any suggestions as errata or input to future versions.
16:37:17 <Loretta> Marc: It was hard to get my head around, but as I reread it a few times, the note started making more sense.
16:37:37 <Loretta> Marc: I didn't realize the text was normative at the time.
16:38:05 <Loretta> Other documents online used the word change instead of transition.
16:38:22 <Loretta> Marc: And with that change, Note 2 seemed unnecessary.
16:38:43 <Loretta> Marc: Part of what makes the note difficult is the repeated use of "relative luminance".
16:38:59 <Joshue> https://www.w3.org/2006/02/lc-comments-tracker/35422/NOTE-UNDERSTANDING-WCAG20-20140911/2991
16:40:40 <Loretta> AWK: I think Makoto knows we can't change the document; he is just asking for clarification so that can be sure their translation is correct.
16:41:05 <Joshue> LGR: Make sure Gregg look at this
16:41:12 <Joshue> JOC: I pinged him
16:42:54 <Zakim> -Michael_Cooper
16:44:12 <Loretta> AWK: Suggest leaving this open until we get input from Gregg.
16:45:21 <Joshue>  [Draft Technique] C31:Using percent for font sizes
16:46:12 <Zakim> +David_MacDonald
16:47:00 <jamesn> http://caniuse.com/#feat=rem
16:48:08 <AWK> q+
16:48:25 <jamesn> is there a new version of the technique?
16:48:39 <Joshue> q?
16:48:42 <Joshue> ack awk
16:49:00 <Loretta> LGR: Couldn't read the technique
16:49:17 <Loretta> AWK: I think there is not yet a technique written, just ideas collected.
16:49:42 <Joshue> q?
16:49:45 <jamesn> (c12 , c13 & c14)
16:52:18 <jamesn> q+
16:52:48 <Zakim> -EricE
16:52:50 <AWK> ack james
16:52:52 <yatil> zakim, call EricE-Skype
16:52:52 <Zakim> ok, yatil; the call is being made
16:52:54 <Zakim> +EricE
16:53:34 <David> David has joined #wai-wcag
16:53:47 <Zakim> -EricE
16:54:25 <yatil_> yatil_ has joined #wai-wcag
16:54:25 <David> rssagent, make minutes
16:54:31 <Loretta> Discussion of the benefits of folding the techniques into one of the existing techniques, vs creating a completely new technique.
16:54:32 <yatil_> zakim, call EricE-Skype
16:54:32 <Zakim> ok, yatil_; the call is being made
16:54:33 <Zakim> +EricE
16:54:44 <yatil_> zakim, nick yatil_ is EricE
16:54:44 <Zakim> ok, yatil_, I now associate you with EricE
16:54:52 <yatil_> zakim, mute me
16:54:52 <Zakim> EricE should now be muted
16:55:19 <jamesn> zakim, I am James_Nurthen
16:55:19 <Zakim> ok, jamesn, I now associate you with James_Nurthen
16:55:24 <jamesn> zakim, mute me
16:55:24 <Zakim> James_Nurthen should now be muted
16:57:39 <Loretta> AWK to help with getting this into github
16:57:56 <Loretta> Resolution: leave open
16:58:06 <Loretta> zakim, take up next
16:58:06 <Zakim> agendum 3. "First Public Working Draft (FPWD) of a W3C Note from the Mobile-A11y TF:" taken up [from Joshue]
16:59:14 <Loretta> Josh has comments related to presentation, but not critical for this round of publication.
17:01:06 <Loretta> Josh's comments about Zoom/Magnification asks for some more clarification.
17:01:35 <Joshue> q?
17:01:40 <Loretta> Josh's comments wonder about the distinction between old school AT and bulit in AT on phones.
17:02:11 <Loretta> Kathy: This is a result of a long discussion, including Gregg. We've gone back and forth on that quite a bit, which may be why there is still some confusion on this topic.
17:02:45 <Loretta> Kathy: THe feedback from fresh eyes will be helpful to us for fixing remaining issues in this section.
17:04:15 <Loretta> Michael's comments call out an @@ that needs resolution.
17:05:42 <Loretta> Kathy: we are on a tight deadline for publishing before CSUN.
17:06:12 <Loretta> Looking for final approval between Feb 13 - 17. Need approval from both WCAG and UAAG.
17:06:50 <Loretta> zakim, take up next
17:06:50 <Zakim> agendum 4. "[Scrub of actions] - please review actions on the list which are yours before the call." taken up [from Joshue]
17:07:19 <AWK> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/open
17:08:20 <Loretta> LGR: Suggests to Chairs that we scrub all actions assigned to people no longer active in the WG.
17:10:52 <Joshue> ACTION-260
17:10:52 <trackbot> ACTION-260 -- Kathleen Anderson to Look into issue 11 kathleen -- due 2014-06-10 -- OPEN
17:10:52 <trackbot> http://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/track/actions/260
17:11:05 <Joshue> delete, ACTION-260
17:11:15 <Joshue> DROP, ACTION-260
17:11:53 <Joshue> CLOSE, ACTION-260
17:12:05 <AWK> CLose action-260
17:12:05 <trackbot> Closed action-260.
17:12:45 <Joshue> close ACTION-129
17:12:45 <trackbot> Closed ACTION-129.
17:13:12 <Joshue> close action-130
17:13:12 <trackbot> Closed action-130.
17:13:57 <Joshue> close action-97
17:13:57 <trackbot> Closed action-97.
17:14:20 <Joshue> close action-103
17:14:21 <trackbot> Closed action-103.
17:14:32 <Joshue> close action-110
17:14:32 <trackbot> Closed action-110.
17:14:59 <David> my work on SCR20 and scr2 https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2014OctDec/0159.html
17:15:06 <Joshue> close action-90
17:15:06 <trackbot> Closed action-90.
17:15:35 <Joshue> close action-104
17:15:36 <trackbot> Closed action-104.
17:15:49 <Joshue> close action-170
17:15:49 <trackbot> Closed action-170.
17:17:09 <Zakim> -EricE
17:17:19 <Joshue> close action-27
17:17:19 <trackbot> Closed action-27.
17:17:34 <Joshue> close action-23
17:17:34 <trackbot> Closed action-23.
17:20:15 <Joshue> close action-189
17:20:15 <trackbot> Closed action-189.
17:22:53 <Joshue> close action-206
17:22:54 <trackbot> Closed action-206.
17:23:22 <Joshue> close action-93
17:23:22 <trackbot> Closed action-93.
17:24:06 <jamesn> btw the minutes for the previous 1.3.1 action were pretty good.... http://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/w3c-wai-gl/2013AprJun/0088.html
17:24:50 <Joshue> close action-205
17:24:50 <trackbot> Closed action-205.
17:25:15 <Joshue> close action-283
17:25:15 <trackbot> Closed action-283.
17:25:28 <Joshue> close action-289
17:25:29 <trackbot> Closed action-289.
17:25:38 <Joshue> close action-290
17:25:39 <trackbot> Closed action-290.
17:25:50 <Joshue> close action-291
17:25:50 <trackbot> Closed action-291.
17:26:12 <Joshue> close action-293
17:26:12 <trackbot> Closed action-293.
17:26:30 <Joshue> close action-294
17:26:30 <trackbot> Closed action-294.
17:27:00 <Joshue> close action-298
17:27:00 <trackbot> Closed action-298.
17:28:39 <Joshue> close action-304
17:28:39 <trackbot> Closed action-304.
17:29:16 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
17:29:37 <Zakim> -Kathy_Wahlbin
17:29:44 <Mike_Elledge> bye all!
17:29:46 <Zakim> -AWK
17:29:47 <Zakim> -jon_avila
17:29:48 <Zakim> -Joshue
17:29:49 <Zakim> -Marc_Johlic
17:29:50 <Zakim> - +1.313.390.aabb
17:29:51 <Zakim> -Loretta
17:29:52 <Zakim> -Kenny
17:29:54 <Zakim> -David_MacDonald
17:29:55 <Zakim> WAI_WCAG()11:00AM has ended
17:29:55 <Zakim> Attendees were Joshue, +1.617.766.aaaa, AWK, +1.313.390.aabb, Kathy_Wahlbin, +1.703.637.aacc, jon_avila, Kenny, Marc_Johlic, EricE, Loretta, Michael_Cooper, James_Nurthen,
17:29:55 <Zakim> ... David_MacDonald
17:30:58 <David> Zakim, list attendees
17:30:58 <Zakim> sorry, David, I don't know what conference this is
17:31:23 <David> zakim, bye
17:31:23 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wai-wcag
17:31:34 <David> rrsagent, make log public
17:31:44 <David> rrsagent, make minutes
17:31:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/02/03-wai-wcag-minutes.html David