17:25:05 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #aria
17:25:05 <RRSAgent> logging to http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-aria-irc
17:25:07 <trackbot> RRSAgent, make logs member
17:25:07 <Zakim> Zakim has joined #aria
17:25:09 <trackbot> Zakim, this will be WAI_PF
17:25:09 <Zakim> ok, trackbot; I see WAI_PFWG()12:30PM scheduled to start in 5 minutes
17:25:10 <trackbot> Meeting: Protocols and Formats Working Group Teleconference
17:25:10 <trackbot> Date: 22 January 2015
17:25:11 <richardschwerdtfeger> chair: Rich
17:25:20 <richardschwerdtfeger> meeting: W3C WAI-PF ARIA Caucus
17:25:29 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make log public
17:26:49 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jan/0116.html
17:28:06 <LJWatson> LJWatson has joined #aria
17:29:29 <Zakim> WAI_PFWG()12:30PM has now started
17:29:36 <Zakim> +Fred_Esch
17:30:01 <fesch> fesch has joined #aria
17:30:10 <Zakim> +Rich_Schwerdtfeger
17:30:36 <Zakim> +Joanmarie_Diggs
17:30:41 <richardschwerdtfeger> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-pfwg/2015Jan/0105.html
17:31:37 <Zakim> +[IPcaller]
17:31:57 <LJWatson> zakim, [IPcaller] is me
17:31:57 <Zakim> +LJWatson; got it
17:33:11 <clown> clown has joined #aria
17:34:13 <Zakim> +[GVoice]
17:34:25 <clown> zakim, GVoice is Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:34:25 <Zakim> +Joseph_Scheuhammer; got it
17:34:36 <clown> zakim, I am Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:34:36 <Zakim> ok, clown, I now associate you with Joseph_Scheuhammer
17:38:46 <jongund> jongund has joined #aria
17:40:13 <jongund> The bridge won't let me in
17:41:02 <Zakim> +Jon_Gunderson
17:41:08 <jongund> I am in now
17:42:31 <richardschwerdtfeger> scribenick: Rich
17:42:43 <clown> scribenick: richardschwerdtfeger
17:42:47 <richardschwerdtfeger> Topic: Action 1548 aria-current
17:42:52 <LJWatson> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-wai-pf/2015JanMar/0015.html
17:42:55 <clown> action-1548?
17:42:55 <trackbot> action-1548 -- Léonie Watson to Write revised proposal for aria-current based on today’s meeting for issue 587 -- due 2015-01-08 -- OPEN
17:42:55 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1548
17:43:50 <LJWatson> Aria-current attribute
17:43:52 <LJWatson> 
17:43:53 <LJWatson> Indicates the element that represents the current item within a container or set of related elements.
17:43:55 <LJWatson> 
17:43:56 <LJWatson> The aria-current attribute is an enumerated type. Any value not included in the list of allowed values must be treated by user agents as if the value true
17:43:58 <LJWatson> had been provided. If the attribute is not present or its value is an empty string, the default value of false applies and the aria-current state must
17:43:59 <LJWatson> not be exposed by user agents or assistive technologies.
17:44:01 <LJWatson> 
17:44:02 <LJWatson> The aria-current attribute is used when an element within a set of related elements is visually styled to indicate it is the current item in the set. For
17:44:04 <LJWatson> example:
17:44:05 <LJWatson> 
17:44:07 <LJWatson> The page token could be used to indicate a link within a set of pagination links, where the link is visually styled to represent the currently displayed
17:44:08 <LJWatson> page.
17:44:10 <LJWatson> The step token could be used to indicate a link within a step indicator for a step-based process, where the link is visually styled to represent the current
17:44:11 <LJWatson> step.
17:44:13 <LJWatson> The location token could be used to indicate the image that is visually highlighted as the current component of a flowchart.
17:44:14 <LJWatson> The date token could be used to indicate the current date within a calendar.
17:44:16 <LJWatson> The time token could be used to indicate the current time within a timetable.
17:44:17 <LJWatson> 
17:44:19 <LJWatson> Note:
17:44:20 <LJWatson> The aria-current attribute is similar to the aria-selected attribute, but there are important differences. For example in a listbox widget for choosing
17:44:22 <LJWatson> between pages of search results, aria-current would be used to indicate the option representing the currently displayed page of results, Whereas aria-selected
17:44:23 <LJWatson> would be used to indicate the page of results the user had selected to be displayed next.
17:44:25 <LJWatson> 
17:44:26 <LJWatson> Characteristics of aria-current
17:44:28 <LJWatson> Used in roles: All elements of the base markup.
17:44:29 <LJWatson> Value: token
17:44:31 <LJWatson> values of aria-current:
17:44:32 <LJWatson> page = Represents the current page within a set of pages.
17:44:34 <LJWatson> step = Represents the current step within a process.
17:44:35 <LJWatson> location = Represents the current location within an environment or context.
17:44:37 <LJWatson> date = Represents the current date within a collection of dates.
17:44:38 <LJWatson> time = Represents the current time within a set of times.
17:44:40 <LJWatson> true = Represents a current item within a set.
17:44:41 <LJWatson> false = Default.
17:44:43 <LJWatson> 
17:47:21 <richardschwerdtfeger> Rich: This is fine. I think we can proceed to Joanie putting this in
17:47:24 <clown> +1
17:48:46 <Zakim> +Matt_King
17:49:19 <Stefan> Stefan has joined #aria
17:50:26 <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: Accept Leonie’s proposal for aria-current and Joanie will take on the action item to put the aria-current text in the spec.
17:51:01 <joanie> For the record: I've transferred the action to myself with a due date of next week.
17:51:04 <richardschwerdtfeger> Jon: anything can do with a validator
17:51:06 <richardschwerdtfeger> group: no
17:51:31 <richardschwerdtfeger> scribenic: Leonie
17:51:34 <LJWatson> scribe: LJWatson
17:51:41 <LJWatson> zakim, next item
17:51:41 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
17:51:44 <richardschwerdtfeger> Topic: Action 1440
17:51:48 <Zakim> +christian
17:51:59 <clown> action-1440?
17:52:00 <trackbot> action-1440 -- Joanmarie Diggs to landmarks section uses "region of page" in prose even though "region" is not a landmark -- due 2015-01-22 -- OPEN
17:52:00 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1440
17:52:01 <LJWatson> TOPIC: Action-1440
17:52:07 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/1440/aria/aria.html#region
17:52:38 <LJWatson> JMD: It's the whole 1440 branch that has been worked on.
17:53:18 <mattking> mattking has joined #aria
17:55:01 <LJWatson> MK: Landmark is abstract.
17:56:47 <LJWatson> RS: On first pass think this looks pretty cool.
17:58:49 <LJWatson> RS: One thing in landmark but not region... MK: Was doing most of the editing on this, after Joanie changed the hierarchy.
18:00:37 <LJWatson> FE: It says "must have aria-label..."
18:00:44 <LJWatson> MK: No, it's not a must.
18:01:30 <LJWatson> MK: aria-labelledby is used to reference visible content, and I think that's better. I editorialised but didn't strike out stuff.
18:03:03 <richardschwerdtfeger> scribenick: Rich
18:03:05 <Zakim> -LJWatson
18:03:37 <richardschwerdtfeger> Rich: aside from linking to section in region prose I though this was fine
18:04:38 <richardschwerdtfeger> Matt: one unique example. A region that included options for a data table. Above and below it, it says rows 15 to 1000, rows per page,
18:05:14 <richardschwerdtfeger> Matt: So, we had put a navigation region around it an labelled it results. It is exactly the same content above and below the table
18:05:29 <richardschwerdtfeger> Matt: It seems to violate a sensory perception rule
18:05:41 <richardschwerdtfeger> Matt: It mad it completely pointless
18:06:45 <richardschwerdtfeger> Matt: we have a navigation region labelled results. So, we have two regions having the same results. Both provide navigation have the same results above and below the table
18:07:06 <richardschwerdtfeger> Matt: the table was jut called results
18:07:19 <richardschwerdtfeger> Matt: you have results table and results navigation above and below the table
18:07:30 <jamesn> jamesn has joined #aria
18:07:42 <richardschwerdtfeger> Matt: you can see that the navigation agenda is there above and below
18:07:52 <richardschwerdtfeger> Matt: giving them the same label is helpful
18:08:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> Matt: I thought about adding location information in the label was not helpful
18:08:30 <richardschwerdtfeger> Rich: that is a WCAG violation
18:08:56 <richardschwerdtfeger> Matt: results navigation located at the top of the table
18:09:04 <richardschwerdtfeger> joseph: is there an aria-controls?
18:09:25 <Zakim> +James_Nurthen
18:09:25 <richardschwerdtfeger> Matt: the labels are not unique and we have a normative unique requirement.
18:09:45 <jamesn> rrsagent, make minutes
18:09:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-aria-minutes.html jamesn
18:10:00 <richardschwerdtfeger> Rich: if you take out unique then you make the testing a manual test
18:10:48 <Zakim> + +1.512.596.aaaa
18:12:06 <richardschwerdtfeger> jamesn: left and right are generally ok but bottom and top are not
18:12:29 <Susann_Keohane> Susann_Keohane has joined #aria
18:12:36 <jamesn> rich - that is the wrong way round
18:13:05 <richardschwerdtfeger> jamesn: correction: bottom and top are generally ok but left and right are
18:13:11 <richardschwerdtfeger> jamen: not
18:15:06 <clown> spelling mistake in landmark text at end of first paragraph:  "by providing a dbrief, descriptive label".  "brief" not "dbrief".
18:17:13 <Susann_Keohane> rich: if you have 2 at the same level with the same name that would be a potential problem
18:17:41 <Susann_Keohane> rich: my concern is that is will be a manual test
18:18:00 <mattking> An element with role region must have a unique label that describes the purpose of its content. Authors should reference a visible label with
18:18:02 <mattking> aria-labelledby
18:18:03 <mattking>  if a visible label is present. Authors should include the label inside of a heading whenever possible. The heading may be an instance of the standard
18:18:05 <mattking> host language heading element or an instance of an element with role
18:18:07 <mattking> heading.
18:18:41 <clown> "An element with role region must have a label that describes the purpose of its content"
18:18:43 <Susann_Keohane> mattking: if you take the word unique out it doesn't change the testing requirements. With the work unique you have a manual test
18:19:02 <Susann_Keohane> mattking: w/o the word unique you still have the same manual test requirement
18:19:51 <Susann_Keohane> mattking: this is like link text, you have a unique requirement with the link labels. the manual test that the link describes it target
18:20:16 <Susann_Keohane> mattking: also like alt text, you must have alt text and it needs to be appropiate
18:20:48 <Susann_Keohane> jamesn: if you are only testing uniqueness you are fooling yourself you are testing requirement
18:21:07 <Susann_Keohane> rich: any manual test drives cost through the roof
18:22:00 <Susann_Keohane> mattking: unique label cause developers to make ugly labels to be unique
18:23:05 <Susann_Keohane> mattking: proposes that uniqueness not be in the verbiage
18:23:30 <Susann_Keohane> jamesn: rather flag it for developers to ensure they are doing the same thing if not there is a problem
18:23:37 <Susann_Keohane> rich: what's the groups decision
18:23:45 <jamesn> unique removed
18:23:46 <Susann_Keohane> fred: I would like to see unique removed
18:24:12 <shepazu> shepazu has left #aria
18:24:14 <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: remove unique  from region roles
18:26:15 <clown> issue-695
18:26:15 <trackbot> issue-695 -- Clean up nits in the ARIA specification -- raised
18:26:15 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/issues/695
18:26:33 <Zakim> - +1.512.596.aaaa
18:26:37 <Susann_Keohane> phone just fropped - dialing back in
18:26:43 <Susann_Keohane> dropped not fropped
18:28:05 <Zakim> + +1.512.596.aabb
18:28:39 <clown> by providing a dbrief, descriptive label.
18:28:59 <clown> should be "brief".
18:32:17 <janina> zakim, who's on the phone?
18:32:17 <Zakim> On the phone I see Fred_Esch, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Joanmarie_Diggs, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Jon_Gunderson, Matt_King, christian, James_Nurthen, +1.512.596.aabb
18:32:57 <janina> zakim, call janina
18:32:57 <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
18:32:59 <Zakim> +Janina
18:33:13 <janina> zakim, drop janina
18:33:13 <Zakim> Janina is being disconnected
18:33:14 <Zakim> -Janina
18:34:39 <clown> action-1342?
18:34:39 <trackbot> action-1342 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Patch issue-523: searchbox role which is a subrole of textbox/textfield -- due 2015-01-15 -- CLOSED
18:34:39 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1342
18:34:45 <clown> action-1392?
18:34:45 <trackbot> action-1392 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Add a switch role to aria 1.1 in response to issue-446 -- due 2015-01-15 -- CLOSED
18:34:45 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1392
18:35:07 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#searchbox
18:36:24 <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOLUTION: Action 1392 closed as complete
18:37:03 <richardschwerdtfeger> s/1392/1342/
18:38:48 <janina> zakim, call janina
18:38:48 <Zakim> ok, janina; the call is being made
18:38:49 <Zakim> +Janina
18:39:06 <janina> zakim, mute me
18:39:06 <Zakim> Janina should now be muted
18:40:45 <jamesn> +1 to having the version introduced
18:41:31 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#changelog
18:41:36 <richardschwerdtfeger> rich: How far do you want to go with this? new or modified?
18:42:32 <richardschwerdtfeger> Topic: Action 1392
18:42:35 <richardschwerdtfeger> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#searchbox
18:42:47 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/aria/aria.html#switch
18:44:38 <janina> zakim, unmute me
18:44:39 <Zakim> Janina should no longer be muted
18:47:52 <joanie> action-1568
18:47:53 <trackbot> action-1568 -- Joanmarie Diggs to Determine if and how and when to indicate new API (e.g. roles) -- due 2015-01-29 -- OPEN
18:47:53 <trackbot> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1568
18:52:19 <janina> zakim, mute me
18:52:19 <Zakim> Janina should now be muted
18:55:41 <clown> https://www.w3.org/WAI/PF/Group/track/actions/1392
18:57:46 <clown> http://rawgit.com/w3c/aria/master/core-aam/core-aam.html#ariaCheckedTrue
18:58:20 <Zakim> - +1.512.596.aabb
19:00:59 <richardschwerdtfeger> RESOULTION: Action 1392 is complete
19:01:25 <Zakim> -James_Nurthen
19:02:12 <janina> zakim, unmute me
19:02:13 <Zakim> Janina should no longer be muted
19:02:57 <richardschwerdtfeger> zakim, bye
19:02:57 <Zakim> Zakim has left #aria
19:02:57 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees were Fred_Esch, Rich_Schwerdtfeger, Joanmarie_Diggs, LJWatson, Joseph_Scheuhammer, Jon_Gunderson, Matt_King, christian, James_Nurthen,
19:02:57 <Zakim> ... +1.512.596.aaaa, +1.512.596.aabb, Janina
19:03:03 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make minutes
19:03:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate http://www.w3.org/2015/01/22-aria-minutes.html richardschwerdtfeger
19:03:30 <richardschwerdtfeger> RRSAgent, make log public
19:31:39 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #aria
19:47:29 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #aria
19:58:23 <janina> janina has changed the topic to: ARIA Teleconference; Thursday 29 January; Zakim 2742#
20:24:52 <richardschwerdtfeger> richardschwerdtfeger has joined #aria
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